Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 11:50:04 GMT
Welsh cakes would have been wonderful, as would a steaming hot bowl of cawl. I get really annoyed when I hear people say that British food is crap. how anyone could dislike welsh cakes is beyond me - unless they dislike dried fruit, in which case substitute with chocolate chips (I know not traditional, but also delicious). Someone else on the Brit table brought home made scones in which also went down well - sadly no clotted cream as we couldn't get that in VA. Inclusivity is a difficult thing to measure I think. It is an abstract concept rather than something more tangible, and you will feel it if it is there, and also if it is absent. I don't attach any store to indices that attempt to measure it. For me it is about being free to be who you are without having to conform to cultural norms (without causing intentional harm to others). All too often in the UK I hear things like "they should speak English over here" or " they should behave in this way in this country" which leads me to conclude that Britain being an inclusive nation is as much of a myth as British "exceptionalism". I passionately despise the rampant populism/nationalism that is sweeping through much of the western world at present. It is isolationist rather than inclusive in nature and is IMHO is responsible for many of the ills and the hatred in the world. Much better to be open and try to see the world through other people's eyes than build barriers in my opinion, and the funny thing is, by being inclusive towards others, my experience has been that it gets reciprocated. Maybe it is why I've been so lucky to experience inclusivity in so many different nations. Favourite tactic of the populists - divide and conquer to deliberately pit people against each other, usually by generating envy that one group gets something that another doesn't. A surprisingly wise person (Jimmy Carr) came out with a really simple saying that I think is profound, and which I try to keep at the front of my mind - "Comparison is the thief of joy". WM Gas' analogy that Brits would rather have a fiver if no-one else got one than everyone gets a tenner resonates with me. Whilst I know bad things do happen in other countries there have been some incidents in the UK that leave me really ashamed to be British. These include the two lesbians beaten up on a bus in London, the French boy kicked to a pulp on the downs and the black rapper who thugs drove a car into whilst he was sat on a wall in Southmead. These sort of incidents really make me think we are not an inclusive nation. Shamefully I missed Chile off my inclusive Nations list. My experience there was of really wonderful people who were so proud of their country that they were determined that you would have the best time possible. All the Chileans I have met in my life have been exceptionally nice people.That Pinochet bloke was a bit of a wrong 'un mind! Chile is a place I would love to visit, my dad lived there just after the war, he was in the merchant navy and if you fell ill on ship they just got you ashore and you had to wait for your ship to dock in that port again, which was around 18 months in his case! He ended up living with a Chilean family and family rumour has it that there me and my sisters may have another sibling! We will never know if that is true or not , but the fact that a family took in a British sailor, who spoke no Spanish, just to help him out speaks volumes. It's great to read posts such as yours, viewed through social media, I find it increasingly depressing that the UK is seemingly populated by Little Englanders, most of whom are on my friends list!Snap!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 12:43:26 GMT
That Pinochet bloke was a bit of a wrong 'un mind! Chile is a place I would love to visit, my dad lived there just after the war, he was in the merchant navy and if you fell ill on ship they just got you ashore and you had to wait for your ship to dock in that port again, which was around 18 months in his case! He ended up living with a Chilean family and family rumour has it that there me and my sisters may have another sibling! We will never know if that is true or not , but the fact that a family took in a British sailor, who spoke no Spanish, just to help him out speaks volumes. It's great to read posts such as yours, viewed through social media, I find it increasingly depressing that the UK is seemingly populated by Little Englanders, most of whom are on my friends list!Snap! "the UK is seemingly populated by Little Englanders, most of whom are on my friends list!" Ditto Roaming (but not in Europe) like deranged lice
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Dec 11, 2020 16:09:04 GMT
Good for you Mango - not many would have been so considerate, and would have reinforced any negative impression the Polish community had for British bank employees. Even though you didn't succeed in getting your bank to print leaflets, what you did would have held back the tide a bit anyway. Even little actions like yours matter and make people feel like they matter. I too hate the arrogance of Brits not making any effort to converse in the language over the country. Ironically they are probably the same people who criticise "foreigners" for speaking their own language in the UK. Part of the fun for me of visiting a new country is learning some of the language. If I bothered to count I'm pretty sure I have learned to say please, thank you and f**k off in about a dozen languages!
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Dec 11, 2020 16:16:55 GMT
Welsh cakes would have been wonderful, as would a steaming hot bowl of cawl. I get really annoyed when I hear people say that British food is crap. how anyone could dislike welsh cakes is beyond me - unless they dislike dried fruit, in which case substitute with chocolate chips (I know not traditional, but also delicious). Someone else on the Brit table brought home made scones in which also went down well - sadly no clotted cream as we couldn't get that in VA. Inclusivity is a difficult thing to measure I think. It is an abstract concept rather than something more tangible, and you will feel it if it is there, and also if it is absent. I don't attach any store to indices that attempt to measure it. For me it is about being free to be who you are without having to conform to cultural norms (without causing intentional harm to others). All too often in the UK I hear things like "they should speak English over here" or " they should behave in this way in this country" which leads me to conclude that Britain being an inclusive nation is as much of a myth as British "exceptionalism". I passionately despise the rampant populism/nationalism that is sweeping through much of the western world at present. It is isolationist rather than inclusive in nature and is IMHO is responsible for many of the ills and the hatred in the world. Much better to be open and try to see the world through other people's eyes than build barriers in my opinion, and the funny thing is, by being inclusive towards others, my experience has been that it gets reciprocated. Maybe it is why I've been so lucky to experience inclusivity in so many different nations. Favourite tactic of the populists - divide and conquer to deliberately pit people against each other, usually by generating envy that one group gets something that another doesn't. A surprisingly wise person (Jimmy Carr) came out with a really simple saying that I think is profound, and which I try to keep at the front of my mind - "Comparison is the thief of joy". WM Gas' analogy that Brits would rather have a fiver if no-one else got one than everyone gets a tenner resonates with me. Whilst I know bad things do happen in other countries there have been some incidents in the UK that leave me really ashamed to be British. These include the two lesbians beaten up on a bus in London, the French boy kicked to a pulp on the downs and the black rapper who thugs drove a car into whilst he was sat on a wall in Southmead. These sort of incidents really make me think we are not an inclusive nation. Shamefully I missed Chile off my inclusive Nations list. My experience there was of really wonderful people who were so proud of their country that they were determined that you would have the best time possible. All the Chileans I have met in my life have been exceptionally nice people.That Pinochet bloke was a bit of a wrong 'un mind! Chile is a place I would love to visit, my dad lived there just after the war, he was in the merchant navy and if you fell ill on ship they just got you ashore and you had to wait for your ship to dock in that port again, which was around 18 months in his case! He ended up living with a Chilean family and family rumour has it that there me and my sisters may have another sibling! We will never know if that is true or not , but the fact that a family took in a British sailor, who spoke no Spanish, just to help him out speaks volumes. It's great to read posts such as yours, viewed through social media, I find it increasingly depressing that the UK is seemingly populated by Little Englanders, most of whom are on my friends list! If you get the chance to go, grab it with both hands. Chile being a long and thin country it is incredibly varied, from the Atacama desert, to the glaciers of Patagonia, with volcanoes and mountains in between. As your Dad discovered, the people are also incredibly kind and friendly.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
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Post by basel on Dec 11, 2020 16:37:21 GMT
It may come to pass we import even more Chilean wine than we do now,if the French sulk come possible WTO.
Get the Pan Flutes out,get bladdered whilst playing the theme tune to 'The Great Escape' and flicking the Vs in the general direction of Brussels.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 11, 2020 16:43:35 GMT
"the UK is seemingly populated by Little Englanders, most of whom are on my friends list!" Ditto Roaming (but not in Europe) like deranged lice Note to all. If this thread degenerates into name-calling, I'll drop an anchor on it. Which would be a shame as it's made enjoyable reading.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Dec 11, 2020 17:00:42 GMT
Interesting report there Epping, which does seem to align with my experience in the US, and not as closely with my experience of the rest of the world. Some of the countries I spent time in quite some time ago so things may well be different now to when I was there. The bit on political backsliding particularly struck a chord with me. The report identifies a huge amount of gerrymandering to return election results in complete disproportion to the recorded vote. The irony that this happened under the orange w***puffin's administration does not escape me and looks like much stronger evidence of a stolen election than anything he and his acolytes have produced for this election. lucky our electoral system can't be rigged in that way isn't it? Here's another report...https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2018-06/the-inclusiveness-of-nationalities-ipsos-global-advisor.pdf (page 5 for the rankings). I'm a bit surprised at Australia being 'top 5'. Then again am I pray to the oft-quoted - but apparently incorrect perception that - "Australia is an inherently racist right-wing country"? The USA (as we know) will have big disparities between states. We do better than Germany, but oddly, not as well as France. Weird. My conclusion would be that people perceive the UK as "not being very inclusive" - when in fact the data (yes, I know only 2 reports I've found) points to us doing pretty well. I am in the incredibly unfashionable "proud to be British" camp. I do not read the Daily Mail. UTG. Odd set of questions in that one Epping. Basically asking if you think people of different religions, nationalities, sexual preference etc are true citizens of your country. Not sure that any valid inference can be drawn from these on how inclusive other nations are. The Japanese for example being incredibly polite will always likely say they aren't sure if this is the case for fear of causing offence, hence are bottom of almost every list. I don't think you can safely assume that Japan is not inclusive. As I said in a post above, I think it is very difficult to measure inclusiveness objectively as it is an abstract concept. A more representative test might be to ask people from other nations how well they have been accepted by their host nation and not forced to conform to cultural norms. Spent some time in Australia in 1996, have known many Australians, and my best friend from school has lived there for about 30 years. I found it to be tolerant, cosmopolitan and inclusive. I visited Sydney, port Macquarie, Cairns and drove around the outback in northern Queensland in a camper van. Australia is heavily influenced I think by its Asian neighbours and there are a lot of people from countries like Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia etc there.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Dec 11, 2020 17:02:28 GMT
"the UK is seemingly populated by Little Englanders, most of whom are on my friends list!" Ditto Roaming (but not in Europe) like deranged lice Note to all. If this thread degenerates into name-calling, I'll drop an anchor on it. Which would be a shame as it's made enjoyable reading. I don't think it has Epping. all been very civilised so far........
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basel
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Post by basel on Dec 11, 2020 17:19:03 GMT
Note to all. If this thread degenerates into name-calling, I'll drop an anchor on it. Which would be a shame as it's made enjoyable reading. I don't think it has Epping. all been very civilised so far........ Oldies post read like Hitler describing gypsies. Hardly civilised.
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basel
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Post by basel on Dec 11, 2020 17:24:49 GMT
"the UK is seemingly populated by Little Englanders, most of whom are on my friends list!" Ditto Roaming (but not in Europe) like deranged lice Note to all. If this thread degenerates into name-calling, I'll drop an anchor on it. Which would be a shame as it's made enjoyable reading. Epipping,I think you posted about a General section where we could discuss eg politics,but I can't find it?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 11, 2020 17:24:58 GMT
Note to all. If this thread degenerates into name-calling, I'll drop an anchor on it. Which would be a shame as it's made enjoyable reading. I don't think it has Epping. all been very civilised so far........ Equating "Little Englanders" to "deranged lice" is not civilised. What 'point' is being made? I think there is an inference here that Little Englander = person who had the audacity to vote Leave. Thin end of the wedge. Nipping it in the bud. Other mods - feel free to comment.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Dec 11, 2020 17:28:26 GMT
It may come to pass we import even more Chilean wine than we do now,if the French sulk come possible WTO. Get the Pan Flutes out,get bladdered whilst playing the theme tune to 'The Great Escape' and flicking the Vs in the general direction of Brussels. We've signed a continuity Trade deal with Chile. I'm not an expert but take this to mean that at best it will be maintaining the same terms of trade we enjoyed with Chile when we were members of the EU. we certainly won't be getting better trade terms with them than the EU will get as we don't have the leverage that the EU have now we've decided to go it alone. A bit like the Japanese trade deal that the tories made such a fuss over, which in essence means that the £6 imported bottle of soy sauce won't cost any more than before Brexit (conveniently forgetting that most of the soy sauce we consume is brewed in the Netherlands, and will be more expensive with Brexit tariffs added). We may well import more wine from Chile post Brexit, but don't forget it will cost more to transport it from Chile than from the EU, and if the pound tanks as is likely then cost to import will go up. You might well find that the £8 bottle of French wine with tariffs is better value than the £10 non tariff Chilean wine, but that neither is better than the same £4 tariff free bottle of french wine you can currently buy. Re your second line, I'd add whilst cutting your own fingers and toes off with a rusty penknife. You lived in Switzerland for a while didn't you Basel? What was your experience there? What was it like as a Nation to live in?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 11, 2020 17:37:48 GMT
Note to all. If this thread degenerates into name-calling, I'll drop an anchor on it. Which would be a shame as it's made enjoyable reading. Epipping,I think you posted about a General section where we could discuss eg politics,but I can't find it? Hi Basel - long ago I think there was a section for "serious stuff". Admin/Mods at the time thought it brought more trouble than it was worth. I tend to agree with them. The sad fact of the matter is that people with strong political views are entrenched in their position. They do not listen to debate. It inevitably descends into puerile point scoring and name-calling. This is why I'm taking a line on this thread. Personally - I would suggest opening a thread in General Football Chat. I will closely monitor it. Polite debate welcome (we've done 9 pages here and it's generally been very good). If debate descends into mud-slinging, then I'll take it down. If the other mods think it's a bad idea, then it won't happen at all. UTG.
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basel
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Post by basel on Dec 11, 2020 17:55:21 GMT
It may come to pass we import even more Chilean wine than we do now,if the French sulk come possible WTO. Get the Pan Flutes out,get bladdered whilst playing the theme tune to 'The Great Escape' and flicking the Vs in the general direction of Brussels. We've signed a continuity Trade deal with Chile. I'm not an expert but take this to mean that at best it will be maintaining the same terms of trade we enjoyed with Chile when we were members of the EU. we certainly won't be getting better trade terms with them than the EU will get as we don't have the leverage that the EU have now we've decided to go it alone. A bit like the Japanese trade deal that the tories made such a fuss over, which in essence means that the £6 imported bottle of soy sauce won't cost any more than before Brexit (conveniently forgetting that most of the soy sauce we consume is brewed in the Netherlands, and will be more expensive with Brexit tariffs added). We may well import more wine from Chile post Brexit, but don't forget it will cost more to transport it from Chile than from the EU, and if the pound tanks as is likely then cost to import will go up. You might well find that the £8 bottle of French wine with tariffs is better value than the £10 non tariff Chilean wine, but that neither is better than the same £4 tariff free bottle of french wine you can currently buy. Re your second line, I'd add whilst cutting your own fingers and toes off with a rusty penknife. You lived in Switzerland for a while didn't you Basel? What was your experience there? What was it like as a Nation to live in? I'm no expert either,but I reckon maintaining our current trade deal with Chile maybe the least we achieve and their will be opportunity to enhance.Both possibilities alot better than many on the Remain side insisted. 15 years in Basel. That's a good taste of the German speaking part of Switzerland. I have many fond and happy memories,some tough.15 years is quite a long time. Hmm,as a nation right in the middle of Europe it has - as some might expect - some things to be proud of and some things not so much. Basel gets a big thumbs up from me.It's as familiar to me as eg the Cotswold Hills. Friends still ask if i'm "coming back".🙂 Edit.You had some time in Switzerland how did you get on?
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basel
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Post by basel on Dec 11, 2020 17:57:05 GMT
Epipping,I think you posted about a General section where we could discuss eg politics,but I can't find it? Hi Basel - long ago I think there was a section for "serious stuff". Admin/Mods at the time thought it brought more trouble than it was worth. I tend to agree with them. The sad fact of the matter is that people with strong political views are entrenched in their position. They do not listen to debate. It inevitably descends into puerile point scoring and name-calling. This is why I'm taking a line on this thread. Personally - I would suggest opening a thread in General Football Chat. I will closely monitor it. Polite debate welcome (we've done 9 pages here and it's generally been very good). If debate descends into mud-slinging, then I'll take it down. If the other mods think it's a bad idea, then it won't happen at all. UTG. Okay,great. It'll be a good test for that thing they call 'listening'.
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Post by rowdenhill on Dec 11, 2020 18:09:33 GMT
Hi Basel - long ago I think there was a section for "serious stuff". Admin/Mods at the time thought it brought more trouble than it was worth. I tend to agree with them. The sad fact of the matter is that people with strong political views are entrenched in their position. They do not listen to debate. It inevitably descends into puerile point scoring and name-calling. This is why I'm taking a line on this thread. Personally - I would suggest opening a thread in General Football Chat. I will closely monitor it. Polite debate welcome (we've done 9 pages here and it's generally been very good). If debate descends into mud-slinging, then I'll take it down. If the other mods think it's a bad idea, then it won't happen at all. UTG. Okay,great. It'll be a good test for that thing they call 'listening'.
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basel
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Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Dec 11, 2020 18:15:17 GMT
Okay,great. It'll be a good test for that thing they call 'listening'. 😉
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 18:36:07 GMT
We've signed a continuity Trade deal with Chile. I'm not an expert but take this to mean that at best it will be maintaining the same terms of trade we enjoyed with Chile when we were members of the EU. we certainly won't be getting better trade terms with them than the EU will get as we don't have the leverage that the EU have now we've decided to go it alone. A bit like the Japanese trade deal that the tories made such a fuss over, which in essence means that the £6 imported bottle of soy sauce won't cost any more than before Brexit (conveniently forgetting that most of the soy sauce we consume is brewed in the Netherlands, and will be more expensive with Brexit tariffs added). We may well import more wine from Chile post Brexit, but don't forget it will cost more to transport it from Chile than from the EU, and if the pound tanks as is likely then cost to import will go up. You might well find that the £8 bottle of French wine with tariffs is better value than the £10 non tariff Chilean wine, but that neither is better than the same £4 tariff free bottle of french wine you can currently buy. Re your second line, I'd add whilst cutting your own fingers and toes off with a rusty penknife. You lived in Switzerland for a while didn't you Basel? What was your experience there? What was it like as a Nation to live in? I'm no expert either,but I reckon maintaining our current trade deal with Chile maybe the least we achieve and their will be opportunity to enhance.Both possibilities alot better than many on the Remain side insisted. 15 years in Basel. That's a good taste of the German speaking part of Switzerland. I have many fond and happy memories,some tough.15 years is quite a long time. Hmm,as a nation right in the middle of Europe it has - as some might expect - some things to be proud of and some things not so much. Basel gets a big thumbs up from me.It's as familiar to me as eg the Cotswold Hills. Friends still ask if i'm "coming back".🙂 Just recently I was browsing in the archives, Steve. I found some decent convos between us about your years in Basel, especially chatting about 'The Sir William Hills' - good days. In fact we had some decent tête-à-têtes over the old dog and bone in the distant past, putting the world to rights. Me and Mrs. Darlo have Chilean and Dutch friends, we meet up with them in Estepona, Southern Spain, each year. Roll on 2021 and a couple of jabs in my arm. #Europhile here
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basel
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Post by basel on Dec 11, 2020 18:56:16 GMT
I'm no expert either,but I reckon maintaining our current trade deal with Chile maybe the least we achieve and their will be opportunity to enhance.Both possibilities alot better than many on the Remain side insisted. 15 years in Basel. That's a good taste of the German speaking part of Switzerland. I have many fond and happy memories,some tough.15 years is quite a long time. Hmm,as a nation right in the middle of Europe it has - as some might expect - some things to be proud of and some things not so much. Basel gets a big thumbs up from me.It's as familiar to me as eg the Cotswold Hills. Friends still ask if i'm "coming back".🙂 Just recently I was browsing in the archives, Steve. I found some decent convos between us about your years in Basel, especially chatting about 'The Sir William Hills' - good days. In fact we had some decent tête-à-têtes over the old dog and bone in the distant past, putting the world to rights. Me and Mrs. Darlo have Chilean and Dutch friends, we meet up with them in Estepona, Southern Spain, each year. Roll on 2021 and a couple of jabs in my arm. #Europhile here I remember it well Dave👍 I love Europe,but not the EU. Although I voted Remain,but changed my mind. Good times in the SWH.The drummer recently got in touch with me. As I have Crohns,I think I may get offered the Cov19 vaccine soonish. I may well visit Basel in 2021.
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Post by chelt_gas on Dec 11, 2020 19:46:36 GMT
Here's another report...https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2018-06/the-inclusiveness-of-nationalities-ipsos-global-advisor.pdf (page 5 for the rankings). I'm a bit surprised at Australia being 'top 5'. Then again am I pray to the oft-quoted - but apparently incorrect perception that - "Australia is an inherently racist right-wing country"? The USA (as we know) will have big disparities between states. We do better than Germany, but oddly, not as well as France. Weird. My conclusion would be that people perceive the UK as "not being very inclusive" - when in fact the data (yes, I know only 2 reports I've found) points to us doing pretty well. I am in the incredibly unfashionable "proud to be British" camp. I do not read the Daily Mail. UTG. Odd set of questions in that one Epping. Basically asking if you think people of different religions, nationalities, sexual preference etc are true citizens of your country. Not sure that any valid inference can be drawn from these on how inclusive other nations are. The Japanese for example being incredibly polite will always likely say they aren't sure if this is the case for fear of causing offence, hence are bottom of almost every list. I don't think you can safely assume that Japan is not inclusive. As I said in a post above, I think it is very difficult to measure inclusiveness objectively as it is an abstract concept. A more representative test might be to ask people from other nations how well they have been accepted by their host nation and not forced to conform to cultural norms. Spent some time in Australia in 1996, have known many Australians, and my best friend from school has lived there for about 30 years. I found it to be tolerant, cosmopolitan and inclusive. I visited Sydney, port Macquarie, Cairns and drove around the outback in northern Queensland in a camper van. Australia is heavily influenced I think by its Asian neighbours and there are a lot of people from countries like Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia etc there. I’ve been in Sydney for over 6 years. It’s a great city with a culture that unconsciously accepts everyone for who they want to be. There’s not much political correctness but then again not many people decide they want to take offence. I’m intolerant of Australian bacon mind, that should be marginalised.
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