basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Dec 5, 2020 18:09:50 GMT
Players taking the knee at Millwall were booed by some in the crowd today.
Rascist or not?
I believe millions of Britons do not like/trust the political group BLM.Some of these Britons will themselves be black.
I don't want to see this taking the knee at games as I do not like the BLM group.
I take people as I individually find them.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 5, 2020 18:16:07 GMT
Agree with o p.
I think politics should be kept out of sport.
It should be a free country to express any opinion unless it incites violence. So, why is booing consideration racist?
I see these options for everyone: Make no noise. Make some noise. Make no visible protest. Make some visible protest.
Combination of above.
So, if you disagree with the premise of BLM being imposed on your club against your will, how do you lawfully protest if it isn't booing?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 5, 2020 18:41:57 GMT
"Booing" seems a bit silly. Same as "booing" your own team when they are playing badly. It's just a bit crass. Me, personally... when I'm back at the Mem and 'if' both teams are required to 'take the knee'. I think I'll just turn my back for 30 seconds. I don't think anyone should be forced to 'take a knee' for a Marxist led organisation (or for that matter, a Fascist led organisation). I hate political extremism. But that's just me. Everyone play nicely. UTG.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 18:44:19 GMT
Done to death The OP is just fishing
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Dec 5, 2020 18:47:02 GMT
"Booing" seems a bit silly. Same as "booing" your own team when they are playing badly. It's just a bit crass. Me, personally... when I'm back at the Mem and 'if' both teams are required to 'take the knee'. I think I'll just turn my back for 30 seconds. I don't think anyone should be forced to 'take a knee' for a Marxist led organisation (or for that matter, a Fascist led organisation). I hate political extremism. But that's just me. Everyone play nicely. UTG. Two things Epping.Turning my back was one thing I was considering, if taking the knee is still going on when I'm back.I hav'nt decided yet. Oh and I think/hope Panto is back very soon (Not sure now,Cov19)! "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"!
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Dec 5, 2020 18:51:27 GMT
Done to death The OP is just fishing Booooo! A talking point from todays football Oldie. Fans protesting the protest at a game. That was'nt in BBC script.
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Post by laughinggas on Dec 5, 2020 18:55:46 GMT
Some kids took the knee at their game, Dad asked why. Reply, dunno, seen on tv. This resulted in a lesson on racism, not politics. Don't confuse the two.
Though the original message is being lost.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 5, 2020 18:56:24 GMT
Done to death The OP is just fishing I don't think he's fishing oldie. I've stopped watching MOTD because I get wound up watching 20 seconds of 'taking the knee' before every single game. I don't think I'm alone. For the record, racism is utterly abhorrent, and tackling it is not easy. 'Taking the knee' is not helping. IMHO.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 19:16:04 GMT
"Booing" seems a bit silly. Same as "booing" your own team when they are playing badly. It's just a bit crass. Me, personally... when I'm back at the Mem and 'if' both teams are required to 'take the knee'. I think I'll just turn my back for 30 seconds. I don't think anyone should be forced to 'take a knee' for a Marxist led organisation (or for that matter, a Fascist led organisation). I hate political extremism. But that's just me. Everyone play nicely. UTG. The f*ckwits and racists seemed to have recently received Facebook medicine degrees, followed in days with virology and epidemiology doctorates from Google, and give the impression they have received all four volumes of Das Kapital in their cornflakes today. I'll wager my pocket-money that the majority of those booing at Millwall, have no evidence that BLM is Marxist-led, and could not define (without Googling) Marxism. I'll start: Very basically ( I can get much, much more Daedalian with regard to Marxism), and over-simplifying Marxism, it usually means analyzing social change through an economic lens, with the assumption that the rich and the poor should become more equal; oh, and plenty of booing footballers who kneel for a couple of seconds before a football match to show support for "black lives" - all very straightforward, really. Old Trot/Marxist here...#UTG
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 5, 2020 19:18:37 GMT
It's fair enough to turn your back. It's fair enough to observe.
But how do you vocally protest lawfully if you disagree?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 5, 2020 19:22:48 GMT
"Booing" seems a bit silly. Same as "booing" your own team when they are playing badly. It's just a bit crass. Me, personally... when I'm back at the Mem and 'if' both teams are required to 'take the knee'. I think I'll just turn my back for 30 seconds. I don't think anyone should be forced to 'take a knee' for a Marxist led organisation (or for that matter, a Fascist led organisation). I hate political extremism. But that's just me. Everyone play nicely. UTG. I'll wager my pocket-money that 99.99% of those booing at Millwall, could not write ONE sentence on how they believe BLM is Marxist-led. You might be wrong. You might be right. But even racists are entitled to a pov. And a right to express it lawfully...
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 5, 2020 19:26:44 GMT
Btw, at West Ham v Man Utd there was some vocal dissent too at taking the knee.
That's two matches today we know of.
What is wrong with freedom to express vocal pov without inciting violence?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 19:37:17 GMT
Btw, at West Ham v Man Utd there was some vocal dissent too at taking the knee. That's two matches today we know of. What is wrong with freedom to express vocal pov without inciting violence? Well precisely. People can express their opinion, or should be able to, without verbal or physical threats. If players choose to take the knee, why should they be subject to verbal abuse, including booing. Why are people so bothered about it?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Dec 5, 2020 19:39:19 GMT
yougov.co.uk/topics/sport/articles-reports/2020/10/16/do-fans-support-premier-league-players-knee-blm?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_questions&utm_campaign=blm_taking_the_knee_footballFans are pretty split on it tbh Not all against it may be racist though, I sense okay with BLM because most of us will agree there is still some way to go until everyone judged on their character not their skin colour, but cautious importing movements wholesale from the US. Civil rights movements work best when they conform to local injustices and circumstances. Liberal Democracy, Communism, women's sufferage, LGBT rights movements and any other zeitgeist defining social and political movements were successful because they molded to the societies they were trying to change. So there's an issue with the US dominating almost all discourse on the internet that their social movements inevitably bleed into ours relevant or not? does it mean the same elsewhere when that national myth is completely different? I don’t like when such things hijacked by media (sky sports) as a right on badge to wear, and commercialised, what premier league had done to remembrance is s**t, pictures of falling poppies on big screen and sometimes not even a proper silence. Any spirituality of Christmas pretty much pulped by commercialism now. And BLM goes the same way. It’s true meaning lost. Practicing knee taking becomes counter productive on simple grounds of does it happen forever or till certain conditions are met, what actually is measured as improved when it stops? BLM can only be judged on real change, not amount of badge wearers, knee takers, power fist makers. the only practical purpose of knee taking is to inspire unity on recognition of racial injustice so there can be change. Only on achieving this should it be judged. Being bloody minded to a world, perceiving it’s out to screw you so you don’t trust and you ain’t gonna take no s**t is not the way to live. So what is knee taking achieving if it divides us now as neatly as that poll not uniting?
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Post by The Concept on Dec 5, 2020 19:40:36 GMT
Imagine being the sort of person that wants to boo people showing solidarity, standing up for inclusion, and standing up against discrimination and racism.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 5, 2020 19:52:30 GMT
Imagine being the sort of person that wants to boo people showing solidarity, standing up for inclusion, and standing up against discrimination and racism. I agree. What if the irony of standing up for all those things means you do just that. And not take the knee? Just because you don't conform to the gesture doesn't mean automatically you don't agree with inclusion, anti discrimination, and racism? Why can't anyone do this their way?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 5, 2020 19:56:11 GMT
Btw, at West Ham v Man Utd there was some vocal dissent too at taking the knee. That's two matches today we know of. What is wrong with freedom to express vocal pov without inciting violence? Well precisely. People can express their opinion, or should be able to, without verbal or physical threats. If players choose to take the knee, why should they be subject to verbal abuse, including booing. Why are people so bothered about it? I disagree that booing is verbal abuse. It's a disagreement with players that choose to take the knee. What other vocal form of disagreement can be made that isn't abuse?
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Dec 5, 2020 20:07:38 GMT
I think taking the knee is a pretty empty gesture but I certainly wouldn't boo it. Hypothetical I know, but considering we have a minutes silence for just about anyone these days, I would imagine that if the present incumbent at No 10 died while still in office he would get one. Despite my feelings toward him I wouldn't consider for one moment booing. I note the booing was at West Ham and Millwall- there's a shock
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Post by lostinspace on Dec 5, 2020 20:16:36 GMT
As these incidents were at , possibly places you may expect,then it's no too surprising,but as yet where there were less high profile games ( teams of notoriety) going on,as yet we have not heard back anything of this from any of these grounds,if there is anything to report
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Post by mangogas15 on Dec 5, 2020 23:16:05 GMT
"Booing" seems a bit silly. Same as "booing" your own team when they are playing badly. It's just a bit crass. Me, personally... when I'm back at the Mem and 'if' both teams are required to 'take the knee'. I think I'll just turn my back for 30 seconds. I don't think anyone should be forced to 'take a knee' for a Marxist led organisation (or for that matter, a Fascist led organisation). I hate political extremism. But that's just me. Everyone play nicely. UTG. Is that silly in the same way as applauding someone who has just been sent off for your own team? 😆 but people do it. I agree with what you said but I think this will get worse before it gets better and can see some consequences for Millwall after today. In 20 years time (maybe not 10), I think we will be banned from swearing at games, chanting at opposition teams or their fans, and footballers will be out as gay without any consequences from the terraces, could we have said that 20 years ago? I think not. The progress takes time with prejudice but compare now to 20 or 40 years ago, or even 10 with the Ferdinand/Terry thing, football has moved on massively.
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