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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Dec 12, 2020 11:47:29 GMT
We won't get a better deal that we had whilst in the EU. Nations won't give us that and risk antagonising the much larger EU market. The best we can possibly hope for is the same deal we had whilst we were EU members. The much hyped Japanese deal is I understand not so good as we enjoyed whilst EU members. i pent a few weeks there touring the Lucerne area whilst living in Munich. It's really beautiful there and one of my favourite places I've been in Europe. Found the people really kind and helpful but it helps I think that I speak passable German. Not far from Basel then.Very beautiful area. I think Liz Truss has signed over 50 deals,'extensions' and maybe some brand spanking new?The speed these deals are done is significantly quicker than how the EU operate,yeh? We'll get the Canafa,New Zealand and Australia thing going,then get a better deal with the US. Not so small lonely country.Etc. Thanks.I hope your younger sister has got to the stage where she can more often than not control her Crohn. Mate these deals are at best a roll over of the agreements we enjoyed with these countries as EU members. There is nothing new in them and most certainly not any improvement. We had to do this quickly because we were crashing out of the EU and would otherwise have been trading with all these nations on WTO terms which is significantly worse as we are about to find out with our closest and best trading partners, the EU. One of these deals includes Canada. Any thought that as one nation we will be able to secure better deals than the EU can ignores the reality of basic market economics where a bigger market inevitably gets better prices and terms than a smaller one. It is a staggering waste of time and money for no benefit. Any chance we had of securing any sort of agreement with the USA that would be even on neutral terms for us evaporated with the Orange w**kpuffin losing the election over there. Biden has made it clear that we are well down the pecking order and he wants to build bridges with the EU and hates Brexit so that is likely to mean a worse deal for us then the EU will get. Even if Chump had won, having worked closely with the US government for 4 years and seeing how protectionist they are then any deal he offered would have been very one sided and better for them than us. The “project fear” stories about chlorinated chicken hormone fed beef and giving US companies preferential access to the NHS weren't wrong. Sister has good spells and bad ones. My sense is that her condition is slowly deteriorating over time. She knows how to alleviate the symptoms but I doubt ghat barring a cure she will ever have it completely under control. She’s managing to stay out of hospital with it, but it seems to ripple into other conditions too and the meds have side effects as I’m sure you know. Hope you are on top of yours too.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Dec 12, 2020 11:54:49 GMT
Whilst 'taking the knee' (and the reaction to it by our supporters) directly effects Bristol Rovers FC, what we choose to eat post-Brexit does not. With respect, please open a new thread in General Football Chat. UTG.
Does it really matter? Surely to god we can all cope with going a bit off topic now and then?
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Dec 12, 2020 11:57:04 GMT
Not far from Basel then.Very beautiful area. I think Liz Truss has signed over 50 deals,'extensions' and maybe some brand spanking new?The speed these deals are done is significantly quicker than how the EU operate,yeh? We'll get the Canafa,New Zealand and Australia thing going,then get a better deal with the US. Not so small lonely country.Etc. Thanks.I hope your younger sister has got to the stage where she can more often than not control her Crohn. " think Liz Truss has signed over 50 deals,'extensions' and maybe some brand spanking new?The speed these deals are done is significantly quicker than how the EU operate,yeh?" 😂😂😂😂 Christ on a bike Regurgitating propaganda or just don't know? The actual list Andean countries CARIFORUM trade bloc Central America Chile Eastern and Southern Africa (ESA) trade bloc Faroe Islands Georgia Iceland and Norway Israel Jordan Kosovo Lebanon Liechtenstein Morocco Pacific states Palestinian Authority Southern Africa Customs Union and Mozambique (SACUM) trade bloc South Korea Switzerland Tunisia Faroe Islands is a standout in terms of economic impact The rest are what the EU negotiated and we either negotiated to continue or there was an agreed roll over. So, in summary what we have now, less circa 20 other states / regions and less the largest free trade bloc in economic terms in the world. What food is chlorinated Basel? Well if we listened to Trump we would all be enjoying a nice glass of Domestos to ward off Covid
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 12, 2020 12:25:08 GMT
Whilst 'taking the knee' (and the reaction to it by our supporters) directly effects Bristol Rovers FC, what we choose to eat post-Brexit does not. With respect, please open a new thread in General Football Chat. UTG.
Does it really matter? Surely to god we can all cope with going a bit off topic now and then? Going off topic and threads developing in interesting ways are always encouraged. When it results in the utterly predictable name-calling and insults as we stray into politics, it gets tiresome.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Dec 12, 2020 12:26:15 GMT
Does it really matter? Surely to god we can all cope with going a bit off topic now and then? Going off topic and threads developing in interesting ways are always encouraged. When it results in the utterly predictable name-calling and insults as we stray into politics, it gets tiresome.
I must have missed that then!
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 12, 2020 12:38:19 GMT
Going off topic and threads developing in interesting ways are always encouraged. When it results in the utterly predictable name-calling and insults as we stray into politics, it gets tiresome.
I must have missed that then! You haven't see what I've had to delete Seriously though, after 8-9 pages of decent conversation, I definitely feel the quality of the debate has begun to degenerate. And it only goes one way from here. Zero tolerance? Maybe. But you have to draw a line somewhere. The other mods have not dissented / are in agreement. UTG.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 13:20:42 GMT
I must have missed that then! You haven't see what I've had to delete Seriously though, after 8-9 pages of decent conversation, I definitely feel the quality of the debate has begun to degenerate. And it only goes one way from here. Zero tolerance? Maybe. But you have to draw a line somewhere. The other mods have not dissented / are in agreement. UTG. Oh Christ, Really? I thought the conversation was very constrained, but then I didn't see what you had to delete.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 21:33:10 GMT
I don't favour a General Chat section. I favour one single Quagmire Thread. All politics should be merged there. If Bambi is ever recaptured, then On this thread he could be imprisoned.
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Post by The Concept on Dec 13, 2020 8:54:39 GMT
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Post by The Concept on Dec 13, 2020 9:08:41 GMT
Well your questions are to do with a completely different matter than the booing I was addressing. If you truly believe in showing solidarity, standing up for inclusion, and standing up against discrimination and racism, then of course you can do it in your own way. But if you do truly believe in showing solidarity, standing up for inclusion, and standing up against discrimination and racism, then you wouldn't disagree with or be against the action the players are taking. Thankfully taking the knee doesn't apply to those on the terraces, as a fair few on here would have trouble getting back up again. Haha! With our aging fanbase, taking the knee replacement might appear more apt. My point was about conformity. Which I think bisects both our points and questions. Like I said before, I think politics should be kept out of sport, that's just my opinion, which sport in its very nature is non discriminatory in its purity. Sport is the very essence of benign natural selection, whatever creed, colour, race, sexuality, belief, etc...if you're good enough, you're going to be in demand. I can understand not conforming to the BLM movement when there are other mandates apart from equality which they're trying to disassociate themselves from. Also, whether you like or dislike taking the knee, it's a gesture that has been imposed on fans, obviously without some fans approval. There is no scope. The neutrality has been expunged. The diametrics have changed where one political agenda is automatically assumed, and any form of disapproval appears to make headlines because it has been deemed to not fit the 'normal' parameters of mainstream.....when in actual fact an expression of disagreement has been lawfully, peacefully conducted, probably where some sort of offence has been taken. Also, I think it's worth pointing out that some Millwall and some West Ham fans expressed an opinion. And even if it was the majority of 2000 fans it's still a minority of the whole fanbase, and completely unfair to assume it's ALL of both clubs fans. Well it that case we had better put a stop to the 'Kick It Out' campaign altogether right now; we should ban 'rainbow laces' and 'rainbow armbands'; we should prevent foodbanks operating at The Mem. Marcus Rashford and others using their sporting profiles to lobby the government over issues such as free school meals? Oh no, sorry, we can't be having that. Football is life; sport is life; politics is life. Sport and politics will forever be entwined. Sport is in a powerful position, with a wide range and influence, to help highlight social injustice and bring about change. I would urge you to read Arlott's words again, that I posted on page 2. I'm hoping at some point you will change your mind.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 13, 2020 10:33:12 GMT
I don't favour a General Chat section. I favour one single Quagmire Thread. All politics should be merged there. If Bambi is ever recaptured, then On this thread he could be imprisoned. giggity giggity goo
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 13, 2020 10:44:40 GMT
Haha! With our aging fanbase, taking the knee replacement might appear more apt. My point was about conformity. Which I think bisects both our points and questions. Like I said before, I think politics should be kept out of sport, that's just my opinion, which sport in its very nature is non discriminatory in its purity. Sport is the very essence of benign natural selection, whatever creed, colour, race, sexuality, belief, etc...if you're good enough, you're going to be in demand. I can understand not conforming to the BLM movement when there are other mandates apart from equality which they're trying to disassociate themselves from. Also, whether you like or dislike taking the knee, it's a gesture that has been imposed on fans, obviously without some fans approval. There is no scope. The neutrality has been expunged. The diametrics have changed where one political agenda is automatically assumed, and any form of disapproval appears to make headlines because it has been deemed to not fit the 'normal' parameters of mainstream.....when in actual fact an expression of disagreement has been lawfully, peacefully conducted, probably where some sort of offence has been taken. Also, I think it's worth pointing out that some Millwall and some West Ham fans expressed an opinion. And even if it was the majority of 2000 fans it's still a minority of the whole fanbase, and completely unfair to assume it's ALL of both clubs fans. Well it that case we had better put a stop to the 'Kick It Out' campaign altogether right now; we should ban 'rainbow laces' and 'rainbow armbands'; we should prevent foodbanks operating at The Mem. Marcus Rashford and others using their sporting profiles to lobby the government over issues such as free school meals? Oh no, sorry, we can't be having that. Football is life; sport is life; politics is life. Sport and politics will forever be entwined. Sport is in a powerful position, with a wide range and influence, to help highlight social injustice and bring about change. I would urge you to read Arlott's words again, that I posted on page 2. I'm hoping at some point you will change your mind. Na, he's a norrvern ponce! I understand the notion but I disagree. That's all. But all we are doing is reiterating our points, so ironically you are making my point for me - politics in sport can be divisive as we clearly don't wholly agree. As noble as those gestures might be well being, I think politics will always divide. As much as the gestures have tried to include, and as benign as they're implemented, positive discrimination can be held in opposite esteem. Sport, especially professional football is the ultimate in non discrimination. Basically, if you're good enough, it doesn't matter whether you go on both knees to an extremest organisation; wear flamboyant laces; prefer kids (you don't have) get vouchers for food so the parents can smoke or drink more; conform to meaningless gestures, or not, you are in! You're wanted! Competitive sport holds no discrimination, it's based on ability. Politics will always divide.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 13, 2020 13:07:21 GMT
Welsh cakes would have been wonderful, as would a steaming hot bowl of cawl. I get really annoyed when I hear people say that British food is crap. how anyone could dislike welsh cakes is beyond me - unless they dislike dried fruit, in which case substitute with chocolate chips (I know not traditional, but also delicious). Someone else on the Brit table brought home made scones in which also went down well - sadly no clotted cream as we couldn't get that in VA. Inclusivity is a difficult thing to measure I think. It is an abstract concept rather than something more tangible, and you will feel it if it is there, and also if it is absent. I don't attach any store to indices that attempt to measure it. For me it is about being free to be who you are without having to conform to cultural norms (without causing intentional harm to others). All too often in the UK I hear things like "they should speak English over here" or " they should behave in this way in this country" which leads me to conclude that Britain being an inclusive nation is as much of a myth as British "exceptionalism". I passionately despise the rampant populism/nationalism that is sweeping through much of the western world at present. It is isolationist rather than inclusive in nature and is IMHO is responsible for many of the ills and the hatred in the world. Much better to be open and try to see the world through other people's eyes than build barriers in my opinion, and the funny thing is, by being inclusive towards others, my experience has been that it gets reciprocated. Maybe it is why I've been so lucky to experience inclusivity in so many different nations. Favourite tactic of the populists - divide and conquer to deliberately pit people against each other, usually by generating envy that one group gets something that another doesn't. A surprisingly wise person (Jimmy Carr) came out with a really simple saying that I think is profound, and which I try to keep at the front of my mind - "Comparison is the thief of joy". WM Gas' analogy that Brits would rather have a fiver if no-one else got one than everyone gets a tenner resonates with me. Whilst I know bad things do happen in other countries there have been some incidents in the UK that leave me really ashamed to be British. These include the two lesbians beaten up on a bus in London, the French boy kicked to a pulp on the downs and the black rapper who thugs drove a car into whilst he was sat on a wall in Southmead. These sort of incidents really make me think we are not an inclusive nation. Shamefully I missed Chile off my inclusive Nations list. My experience there was of really wonderful people who were so proud of their country that they were determined that you would have the best time possible. All the Chileans I have met in my life have been exceptionally nice people. I was brought up visiting my Aunty Vi in Cathays in Cardiff who made Welsh cakes and they just had sultanas in them but covered in sugar rather than flour (typical 1970s). There's loads of lovely traditions in British food that we should always be proud of. I hate going abroad and seeing people not bother to try to speak the local language. It's no wonder some French people are rude when you just rock up and speak English. I have a Polish mate who said it is the same there. When I got the job as manager of Swinton in Kingswood a few years ago, I recognised there was a large Polish community down the road, having previously seen the same in Avonmouth for the previous 8 years. I looked into getting our leaflets translated into Polish for the local community to generate business, the powers that be didn't go for it, but I did learn the word for Thank You which went down really well and made people smile at least. I’m sad to say this but Poland is extremely intolerant, as a whole, you can see many examples of this on YouTube and it’s not a place where many would want to go, if your skin is not white. I had hoped that this would have changed but it hasn’t. In fact it’s worse now. They have said they will not take any asylum seekers and their premier has backed this up, on TV 😢
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 13, 2020 13:11:59 GMT
That Pinochet bloke was a bit of a wrong 'un mind! Chile is a place I would love to visit, my dad lived there just after the war, he was in the merchant navy and if you fell ill on ship they just got you ashore and you had to wait for your ship to dock in that port again, which was around 18 months in his case! He ended up living with a Chilean family and family rumour has it that there me and my sisters may have another sibling! We will never know if that is true or not , but the fact that a family took in a British sailor, who spoke no Spanish, just to help him out speaks volumes. It's great to read posts such as yours, viewed through social media, I find it increasingly depressing that the UK is seemingly populated by Little Englanders, most of whom are on my friends list! If you get the chance to go, grab it with both hands. Chile being a long and thin country it is incredibly varied, from the Atacama desert, to the glaciers of Patagonia, with volcanoes and mountains in between. As your Dad discovered, the people are also incredibly kind and friendly. Some of the best wines that I’ve sampled, have been from Chile. I have yet to see any holidays to that country though. It’s a shame more people don’t travel
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 13, 2020 13:17:41 GMT
I'm no expert either,but I reckon maintaining our current trade deal with Chile maybe the least we achieve and their will be opportunity to enhance.Both possibilities alot better than many on the Remain side insisted. 15 years in Basel. That's a good taste of the German speaking part of Switzerland. I have many fond and happy memories,some tough.15 years is quite a long time. Hmm,as a nation right in the middle of Europe it has - as some might expect - some things to be proud of and some things not so much. Basel gets a big thumbs up from me.It's as familiar to me as eg the Cotswold Hills. Friends still ask if i'm "coming back".🙂 Edit.You had some time in Switzerland how did you get on? We won't get a better deal that we had whilst in the EU. Nations won't give us that and risk antagonising the much larger EU market. The best we can possibly hope for is the same deal we had whilst we were EU members. The much hyped Japanese deal is I understand not so good as we enjoyed whilst EU members. i pent a few weeks there touring the Lucerne area whilst living in Munich. It's really beautiful there and one of my favourite places I've been in Europe. Found the people really kind and helpful but it helps I think that I speak passable German. I also speak German but maybe more than passable. Lived and worked there for close to 3.5 years. As you say, years ahead, better standard of living and people are warm and very friendly , on the whole. I would have stayed if not for my parents getting sick and needing care. It’s something I regret to this day. I expected people to be aggressive and the reality was the polar opposite. I absolutely love the country
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 13, 2020 13:26:59 GMT
We won't get a better deal that we had whilst in the EU. Nations won't give us that and risk antagonising the much larger EU market. The best we can possibly hope for is the same deal we had whilst we were EU members. The much hyped Japanese deal is I understand not so good as we enjoyed whilst EU members. i pent a few weeks there touring the Lucerne area whilst living in Munich. It's really beautiful there and one of my favourite places I've been in Europe. Found the people really kind and helpful but it helps I think that I speak passable German. I also speak German but maybe more than passable. Lived and worked there for close to 3.5 years. As you say, years ahead, better standard of living and people are warm and very friendly , on the whole. I would have stayed if not for my parents getting sick and needing care. It’s something I regret to this day. I expected people to be aggressive and the reality was the polar opposite. I absolutely love the country Couldn't agree more KP. I'm a massive fans of the Germans, and German football in particular, Union Berlin deservedly drew with Bayern Munich last night! Some people find the notion that I am very proud of my country, and also respect (and indeed admire) other nations utterly incompatible. Hope you're keeping well Jools!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2020 13:34:48 GMT
Well it that case we had better put a stop to the 'Kick It Out' campaign altogether right now; we should ban 'rainbow laces' and 'rainbow armbands'; we should prevent foodbanks operating at The Mem. Marcus Rashford and others using their sporting profiles to lobby the government over issues such as free school meals? Oh no, sorry, we can't be having that. Football is life; sport is life; politics is life. Sport and politics will forever be entwined. Sport is in a powerful position, with a wide range and influence, to help highlight social injustice and bring about change. I would urge you to read Arlott's words again, that I posted on page 2. I'm hoping at some point you will change your mind. Na, he's a norrvern ponce! I understand the notion but I disagree. That's all. But all we are doing is reiterating our points, so ironically you are making my point for me - politics in sport can be divisive as we clearly don't wholly agree. As noble as those gestures might be well being, I think politics will always divide. As much as the gestures have tried to include, and as benign as they're implemented, positive discrimination can be held in opposite esteem. Sport, especially professional football is the ultimate in non discrimination. Basically, if you're good enough, it doesn't matter whether you go on both knees to an extremest organisation; wear flamboyant laces; prefer kids (you don't have) get vouchers for food so the parents can smoke or drink more; conform to meaningless gestures, or not, you are in! You're wanted! Competitive sport holds no discrimination, it's based on ability. Politics will always divide. More lack of attention to detail. Arlott was from Hampshire.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 13, 2020 15:31:19 GMT
Na, he's a norrvern ponce! I understand the notion but I disagree. That's all. But all we are doing is reiterating our points, so ironically you are making my point for me - politics in sport can be divisive as we clearly don't wholly agree. As noble as those gestures might be well being, I think politics will always divide. As much as the gestures have tried to include, and as benign as they're implemented, positive discrimination can be held in opposite esteem. Sport, especially professional football is the ultimate in non discrimination. Basically, if you're good enough, it doesn't matter whether you go on both knees to an extremest organisation; wear flamboyant laces; prefer kids (you don't have) get vouchers for food so the parents can smoke or drink more; conform to meaningless gestures, or not, you are in! You're wanted! Competitive sport holds no discrimination, it's based on ability. Politics will always divide. More lack of attention to detail. Arlott was from Hampshire. Northern to me as I'm from I o W ...
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Post by mangogas15 on Dec 14, 2020 7:21:20 GMT
Interesting report there Epping, which does seem to align with my experience in the US, and not as closely with my experience of the rest of the world. Some of the countries I spent time in quite some time ago so things may well be different now to when I was there. The bit on political backsliding particularly struck a chord with me. The report identifies a huge amount of gerrymandering to return election results in complete disproportion to the recorded vote. The irony that this happened under the orange w***puffin's administration does not escape me and looks like much stronger evidence of a stolen election than anything he and his acolytes have produced for this election. lucky our electoral system can't be rigged in that way isn't it? Here's another report...https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2018-06/the-inclusiveness-of-nationalities-ipsos-global-advisor.pdf (page 5 for the rankings). I'm a bit surprised at Australia being 'top 5'. Then again am I pray to the oft-quoted - but apparently incorrect perception that - "Australia is an inherently racist right-wing country"? The USA (as we know) will have big disparities between states. We do better than Germany, but oddly, not as well as France. Weird. My conclusion would be that people perceive the UK as "not being very inclusive" - when in fact the data (yes, I know only 2 reports I've found) points to us doing pretty well. I am in the incredibly unfashionable "proud to be British" camp. I do not read the Daily Mail. UTG. I think we're doing better than we used to.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Dec 14, 2020 22:48:12 GMT
Well it that case we had better put a stop to the 'Kick It Out' campaign altogether right now; we should ban 'rainbow laces' and 'rainbow armbands'; we should prevent foodbanks operating at The Mem. Marcus Rashford and others using their sporting profiles to lobby the government over issues such as free school meals? Oh no, sorry, we can't be having that. Football is life; sport is life; politics is life. Sport and politics will forever be entwined. Sport is in a powerful position, with a wide range and influence, to help highlight social injustice and bring about change. I would urge you to read Arlott's words again, that I posted on page 2. I'm hoping at some point you will change your mind. Na, he's a norrvern ponce! I understand the notion but I disagree. That's all. But all we are doing is reiterating our points, so ironically you are making my point for me - politics in sport can be divisive as we clearly don't wholly agree. discrimin As noble as those gestures might be well being, I think politics will always divide. As much as the gestures have tried to include, and as benign as they're implemented, positive discrimination can be held in opposite esteem. Sport, especially professional football is the ultimate in non discrimination. Basically, if you're good enough, it doesn't matter whether you go on both knees to an extremest organisation; wear flamboyant laces; prefer kids (you don't have) get vouchers for food so the parents can smoke or drink more; conform to meaningless gestures, or not, you are in! You're wanted! Competitive sport holds no discrimination, it's based on ability.Politics will always divide. Plenty of footballers would I think disagree with this, especially those who are black, asian, homosexual etc - basically anyone who doesn't conform to the cultural norm whatever that might be. Look at how few black or asian managers there have been. There's no logical reason to explain this, other than they face disadvantages that white people don't. Unfortunately whilst I wish it was otherwise, I do think there is sufficient evidence to suggest there is still discrimination in sport, albeit likely on a more covert and sinister basis than in the past. I also think that Concept is right - it's impossible to isolate sport from politics. as it is also impossible to isolate politics from life. In an ideal world you would be right, but this is far from an ideal world.
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