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Post by irenestoyboy on Jan 1, 2024 23:51:28 GMT
I was talking about our relegation to league 2 in 2001 not our slide out of the football league in 2014. Our demise started in 2001 not in 2014. They were certainly bad times after 2001 but 2005-10 were pretty good weren't they? The real demise of the club came after Geoff Dunford had stood down and Higgs & Co took the club into the worse spiral ever seen and out of the league. Geoff Dunford made lots of mistakes but inviting Nick Higgs onto the board in 2006 was bar far his worse. My point being, there were lots of questions asked following 2001 but nobody wanted to hear the answers. I'd say the bad times started in 2001 and the chasms and fractions in our own board from 2004/5 onwards stopped any real progress of the club. I remember the football being utterly dour from 05 until Trolls took over. Lenny Lawrence was the real architect of the 07 season and whilst we got promoted and had a tin pot final, it papered over the cracks of what was always there and everyone pretended that promotion to L1 was all that was needed at the time and by 2010 those cracks well and truly appeared again to the point where we could even appoint a manager to control the first team. So let's not rewrite history and pretend it was all gravy. My point was, right up until the mid 2000s, there were multiple sliding doors moments to run rovers properly, to invest in our own future but infighting put pay to it all, and then the loss of successive stadium builds under Higgs, both the Mem redevelopment and the UWE only compounded our lack of vision of the footballing landscape from 2000-2016 when a sale to the ALQs finally brought down the curtain on it all and we finally got a training ground and built a stand. Were Higgs and Co bad owners? They were certainly no better or worse than what went before them, in truth they kept us alive when no one else was prepared to. I was too young and not a ST holder in those days as I was young enough to play football on a Saturday so you'll know more about the politics of those days than I but from the general read of the situation, that's what it certainly looks like. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2024 0:01:15 GMT
They were certainly bad times after 2001 but 2005-10 were pretty good weren't they? The real demise of the club came after Geoff Dunford had stood down and Higgs & Co took the club into the worse spiral ever seen and out of the league. Geoff Dunford made lots of mistakes but inviting Nick Higgs onto the board in 2006 was bar far his worse. My point being, there were lots of questions asked following 2001 but nobody wanted to hear the answers. I'd say the bad times started in 2001 and the chasms and fractions in our own board from 2004/5 onwards stopped any real progress of the club. I remember the football being utterly dour from 05 until Trolls took over. Lenny Lawrence was the real architect of the 07 season and whilst we got promoted and had a tin pot final, it papered over the cracks of what was always there and everyone pretended that promotion to L1 was all that was needed at the time and by 2010 those cracks well and truly appeared again to the point where we could even appoint a manager to control the first team. So let's not rewrite history and pretend it was all gravy. My point was, right up until the mid 2000s, there were multiple sliding doors moments to run rovers properly, to invest in our own future but infighting put pay to it all, and then the loss of successive stadium builds under Higgs, both the Mem redevelopment and the UWE only compounded our lack of vision of the footballing landscape from 2000-2016 when a sale to the ALQs finally brought down the curtain on it all and we finally got a training ground and built a stand. Were Higgs and Co bad owners? They were certainly no better or worse than what went before them, in truth they kept us alive when no one else was prepared to. I was too young and not a ST holder in those days as I was young enough to play football on a Saturday so you'll know more about the politics of those days than I but from the general read of the situation, that's what it certainly looks like. The point you raise about Lennie is an interesting one. If the promotion, trophy final and FA Cup quarter final was all down to Lennie then why the hell did Higgs get rid of him forcing Trolls into a managers role which wasn't then or isn't now a position that Trolls can do. He's a coach and that's why a DOF was appointed for him. I'll answer my own question, because Higgs was clueless and non league soon followed, an achievement no other had ever achieved. It was a great relief when the ALQs arrived, only one big blot on their copy book was the appointment of Barton and it was a relief when the new owners arrived and ended the nightmare. Hopefully we can push on again now with a decent manager and human being at the helm and within an improved stadium. UTG and here's to a great 2024 both on and off the pitch. |
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Post by a more piratey game on Jan 2, 2024 0:46:56 GMT
I'd say the bad times started in 2001 and the chasms and fractions in our own board from 2004/5 onwards stopped any real progress of the club. I remember the football being utterly dour from 05 until Trolls took over. Lenny Lawrence was the real architect of the 07 season and whilst we got promoted and had a tin pot final, it papered over the cracks of what was always there and everyone pretended that promotion to L1 was all that was needed at the time and by 2010 those cracks well and truly appeared again to the point where we could even appoint a manager to control the first team. So let's not rewrite history and pretend it was all gravy. My point was, right up until the mid 2000s, there were multiple sliding doors moments to run rovers properly, to invest in our own future but infighting put pay to it all, and then the loss of successive stadium builds under Higgs, both the Mem redevelopment and the UWE only compounded our lack of vision of the footballing landscape from 2000-2016 when a sale to the ALQs finally brought down the curtain on it all and we finally got a training ground and built a stand. Were Higgs and Co bad owners? They were certainly no better or worse than what went before them, in truth they kept us alive when no one else was prepared to. I was too young and not a ST holder in those days as I was young enough to play football on a Saturday so you'll know more about the politics of those days than I but from the general read of the situation, that's what it certainly looks like. The point you raise about Lennie is an interesting one. If the promotion, trophy final and FA Cup quarter final was all down to Lennie then why the hell did Higgs get rid of him forcing Trolls into a managers role which wasn't then or isn't now a position that Trolls can do. He's a coach and that's why a DOF was appointed for him. I'll answer my own question, because Higgs was clueless and non league soon followed, an achievement no other had ever achieved. It was a great relief when the ALQs arrived, only one big blot on their copy book was the appointment of B***** and it was a relief when the new owners arrived and ended the nightmare. Hopefully we can push on again now with a decent manager and human being at the helm and within an improved stadium. UTG and here's to a great 2024 both on and off the pitch. Agree about the one big mistake. But the interview about a new stadium ready in 2 years after the FM was leaking is up there with ‘choose your seat at Cheltenham’ for me We do remember when they treat us like idiots, even if with best intentions But it’s all very cheery at the moment! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2024 0:50:03 GMT
The point you raise about Lennie is an interesting one. If the promotion, trophy final and FA Cup quarter final was all down to Lennie then why the hell did Higgs get rid of him forcing Trolls into a managers role which wasn't then or isn't now a position that Trolls can do. He's a coach and that's why a DOF was appointed for him. I'll answer my own question, because Higgs was clueless and non league soon followed, an achievement no other had ever achieved. It was a great relief when the ALQs arrived, only one big blot on their copy book was the appointment of B***** and it was a relief when the new owners arrived and ended the nightmare. Hopefully we can push on again now with a decent manager and human being at the helm and within an improved stadium. UTG and here's to a great 2024 both on and off the pitch. Agree about the one big mistake. But the interview about a new stadium ready in 2 years after the FM was leaking is up there with ‘choose your seat at Cheltenham’ for me We do remember when they treat us like idiots, even if with best intentions But it’s all very cheery at the moment! We had the same conversation at the game today in Berkshire. Don't lie to supporters, they aren't idiots and have long memories. |
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Post by rowdenhill on Jan 2, 2024 9:06:13 GMT
What game in Berkshire?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2024 9:13:24 GMT
Sorry Rowdenhill, not very good at my counties this morning, I almost said that Norwich was somewhere else.  |
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Post by rowdenhill on Jan 2, 2024 12:28:29 GMT
OK, SDG!
Berkshire is where we want to offload Swindon onto.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2024 12:31:20 GMT
Wiltshire has fallen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2024 12:50:25 GMT
OK, SDG! Berkshire is where we want to offload Swindon onto. Swine Down or Pig Hill as it was once known. |
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Post by rowdenhill on Jan 2, 2024 13:59:50 GMT
Baggionate Tracodonte. Sappi che Wiltshire è la contea più grande di Inghilterra, interamente circondata da altre contee inglesi - e in termini assoluti non appena assorbito Somerset orientale. Quindi non cadrà mai - comunque non prima che tu non l'abbia piantato di cacarti sotto e di superare GCSE aritmetico. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2024 14:27:49 GMT
Baggionate Trachodon. Know that Wiltshire is the largest county in England, entirely surrounded by other English counties - and in absolute terms just absorbed East Somerset. So it will never fall out - at least not until you've stopped s**tting yourself and passed GCSE arithmetic. Bloke's a nutter. |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 2, 2024 14:34:44 GMT
Baggionate Trachodon. Know that Wiltshire is the largest county in England, entirely surrounded by other English counties - and in absolute terms just absorbed East Somerset. So it will never fall out - at least not until you've stopped s**tting yourself and passed GCSE arithmetic. Bloke's a nutter. homo insanit |
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Post by irenestoyboy on Jan 3, 2024 7:35:11 GMT
I'd say the bad times started in 2001 and the chasms and fractions in our own board from 2004/5 onwards stopped any real progress of the club. I remember the football being utterly dour from 05 until Trolls took over. Lenny Lawrence was the real architect of the 07 season and whilst we got promoted and had a tin pot final, it papered over the cracks of what was always there and everyone pretended that promotion to L1 was all that was needed at the time and by 2010 those cracks well and truly appeared again to the point where we could even appoint a manager to control the first team. So let's not rewrite history and pretend it was all gravy. My point was, right up until the mid 2000s, there were multiple sliding doors moments to run rovers properly, to invest in our own future but infighting put pay to it all, and then the loss of successive stadium builds under Higgs, both the Mem redevelopment and the UWE only compounded our lack of vision of the footballing landscape from 2000-2016 when a sale to the ALQs finally brought down the curtain on it all and we finally got a training ground and built a stand. Were Higgs and Co bad owners? They were certainly no better or worse than what went before them, in truth they kept us alive when no one else was prepared to. I was too young and not a ST holder in those days as I was young enough to play football on a Saturday so you'll know more about the politics of those days than I but from the general read of the situation, that's what it certainly looks like. The point you raise about Lennie is an interesting one. If the promotion, trophy final and FA Cup quarter final was all down to Lennie then why the hell did Higgs get rid of him forcing Trolls into a managers role which wasn't then or isn't now a position that Trolls can do. He's a coach and that's why a DOF was appointed for him. I'll answer my own question, because Higgs was clueless and non league soon followed, an achievement no other had ever achieved. It was a great relief when the ALQs arrived, only one big blot on their copy book was the appointment of B***** and it was a relief when the new owners arrived and ended the nightmare. Hopefully we can push on again now with a decent manager and human being at the helm and within an improved stadium. UTG and here's to a great 2024 both on and off the pitch. LL took quite a wedge out of us I expect and not only that, we were told by both LL and PT that LL wasn't responsible for team selection and tactics. That was PTs job. There is no reason why LL leaving should have had the effect it did with the same squad of players and the same head coach. I am also not sure how you can correlate the loss of LL to NL which happened 2 or 3 manager cycles later? You seem to pick on Higgs, which is fair, he shouldn't be out reproach and made some awful decisions, but we would have hit NL a whole bunch sooner under Dunford and co if it wasn't for Halifax somehow being a whole lot worse than what we served up in 2001/2 with only one team being relegated. We amassed 40 points that season, we were very lucky to survive. We would never have bounced straight back up had we been relegated I'm sure of that. That shouldn't be anything to be proud of either. How DC managed to get us relegated was also quite the acheivement from where he took over but we can forgive him for the way he managed us back up the football league...funnily enough under Higgs! I agree the ALQ ownership bought a level of professionalism to the club which we hadn't had previously, but it was funny that it met with such opposition from the SC, the PC and others at the time, who longed for the halcyon days of Dunford and Higgs when they had seats at the table being part of the ownership that produced such poor performance. This football game off the field is as funny as the game on it at times. |
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Post by a more piratey game on Jan 3, 2024 8:15:36 GMT
The point you raise about Lennie is an interesting one. If the promotion, trophy final and FA Cup quarter final was all down to Lennie then why the hell did Higgs get rid of him forcing Trolls into a managers role which wasn't then or isn't now a position that Trolls can do. He's a coach and that's why a DOF was appointed for him. I'll answer my own question, because Higgs was clueless and non league soon followed, an achievement no other had ever achieved. It was a great relief when the ALQs arrived, only one big blot on their copy book was the appointment of B***** and it was a relief when the new owners arrived and ended the nightmare. Hopefully we can push on again now with a decent manager and human being at the helm and within an improved stadium. UTG and here's to a great 2024 both on and off the pitch. LL took quite a wedge out of us I expect and not only that, we were told by both LL and PT that LL wasn't responsible for team selection and tactics. That was PTs job. There is no reason why LL leaving should have had the effect it did with the same squad of players and the same head coach. I am also not sure how you can correlate the loss of LL to NL which happened 2 or 3 manager cycles later? You seem to pick on Higgs, which is fair, he shouldn't be out reproach and made some awful decisions, but we would have hit NL a whole bunch sooner under Dunford and co if it wasn't for Halifax somehow being a whole lot worse than what we served up in 2001/2 with only one team being relegated. We amassed 40 points that season, we were very lucky to survive. We would never have bounced straight back up had we been relegated I'm sure of that. That shouldn't be anything to be proud of either. How DC managed to get us relegated was also quite the acheivement from where he took over but we can forgive him for the way he managed us back up the football league...funnily enough under Higgs! I agree the ALQ ownership bought a level of professionalism to the club which we hadn't had previously, but it was funny that it met with such opposition from the SC, the PC and others at the time, who longed for the halcyon days of Dunford and Higgs when they had seats at the table being part of the ownership that produced such poor performance. This football game off the field is as funny as the game on it at times. My take thus far is that the ALQs brought an additional element of professionalism, and that the new owners (ASs?) have taken it up another distinct notch Which might be good or bad, but my money’s on good |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 10:26:59 GMT
The point you raise about Lennie is an interesting one. If the promotion, trophy final and FA Cup quarter final was all down to Lennie then why the hell did Higgs get rid of him forcing Trolls into a managers role which wasn't then or isn't now a position that Trolls can do. He's a coach and that's why a DOF was appointed for him. I'll answer my own question, because Higgs was clueless and non league soon followed, an achievement no other had ever achieved. It was a great relief when the ALQs arrived, only one big blot on their copy book was the appointment of B***** and it was a relief when the new owners arrived and ended the nightmare. Hopefully we can push on again now with a decent manager and human being at the helm and within an improved stadium. UTG and here's to a great 2024 both on and off the pitch. I am also not sure how you can correlate the loss of LL to NL which happened 2 or 3 manager cycles later? Quite simple, Higgs inherited PT and LL and reaped the rewards from them including being able to make a profit one year, yes folks Rovers made a profit. Higgs managerial decisions thereafter were a disaster and I even warned about the Buckle one having had close experience of his managerial non ability. Any way, they have all gone and the new owners seem to have higher standards than those that have gone before. They have delivered the new stand, got rid of Barton and installed a good manager in Matt Taylor. For the first time for years we have a chance of a united fan base to get behind the team and club and take us to the next level. I know you are too young but I remember when the Dunfords achieved that for us. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 10:51:48 GMT
Higgs was a nightmare, and Al Qadi made a very good first impression, but as time went on, I think belief in his own and his regime's 'professionalism' became more and more evidently unfounded. Evidence emerged to the contrary: the overpromotion and calamity of Widdrington and Gorringe; the club apparently treating Gas volunteers, staff, and partners disrespectfully; the embarrassing fantasy celebrity photo opportunities; and worst of all, the shameful appointment of a social media celebrity psychopath awaiting trial for violent crime.
I do not know that replacing Al Qadi with Al Saeed does not remove us from the frying pan into the fire, but there is no evidence of increased burning yet, and I felt hopefully cooler after hearing the successor's first interview, and noting the actual work undertaken since.
Al Qadi wasn't as good as I'd hoped.
Coughlan was way better than I realised.
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Post by swissgas on Jan 3, 2024 15:15:03 GMT
The point you raise about Lennie is an interesting one. If the promotion, trophy final and FA Cup quarter final was all down to Lennie then why the hell did Higgs get rid of him forcing Trolls into a managers role which wasn't then or isn't now a position that Trolls can do. He's a coach and that's why a DOF was appointed for him. I'll answer my own question, because Higgs was clueless and non league soon followed, an achievement no other had ever achieved. It was a great relief when the ALQs arrived, only one big blot on their copy book was the appointment of B***** and it was a relief when the new owners arrived and ended the nightmare. Hopefully we can push on again now with a decent manager and human being at the helm and within an improved stadium. UTG and here's to a great 2024 both on and off the pitch. LL took quite a wedge out of us I expect and not only that, we were told by both LL and PT that LL wasn't responsible for team selection and tactics. That was PTs job. There is no reason why LL leaving should have had the effect it did with the same squad of players and the same head coach. I am also not sure how you can correlate the loss of LL to NL which happened 2 or 3 manager cycles later? You seem to pick on Higgs, which is fair, he shouldn't be out reproach and made some awful decisions, but we would have hit NL a whole bunch sooner under Dunford and co if it wasn't for Halifax somehow being a whole lot worse than what we served up in 2001/2 with only one team being relegated. We amassed 40 points that season, we were very lucky to survive. We would never have bounced straight back up had we been relegated I'm sure of that. That shouldn't be anything to be proud of either. How DC managed to get us relegated was also quite the acheivement from where he took over but we can forgive him for the way he managed us back up the football league...funnily enough under Higgs! I agree the ALQ ownership bought a level of professionalism to the club which we hadn't had previously, but it was funny that it met with such opposition from the SC, the PC and others at the time, who longed for the halcyon days of Dunford and Higgs when they had seats at the table being part of the ownership that produced such poor performance. This football game off the field is as funny as the game on it at times. Is this a case of “ Always Believe”. Or does he have some kind of hold over you ITB ? |
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Post by rideintothesun on Jan 3, 2024 15:18:37 GMT
LL took quite a wedge out of us I expect and not only that, we were told by both LL and PT that LL wasn't responsible for team selection and tactics. That was PTs job. There is no reason why LL leaving should have had the effect it did with the same squad of players and the same head coach. I am also not sure how you can correlate the loss of LL to NL which happened 2 or 3 manager cycles later? You seem to pick on Higgs, which is fair, he shouldn't be out reproach and made some awful decisions, but we would have hit NL a whole bunch sooner under Dunford and co if it wasn't for Halifax somehow being a whole lot worse than what we served up in 2001/2 with only one team being relegated. We amassed 40 points that season, we were very lucky to survive. We would never have bounced straight back up had we been relegated I'm sure of that. That shouldn't be anything to be proud of either. How DC managed to get us relegated was also quite the acheivement from where he took over but we can forgive him for the way he managed us back up the football league...funnily enough under Higgs! I agree the ALQ ownership bought a level of professionalism to the club which we hadn't had previously, but it was funny that it met with such opposition from the SC, the PC and others at the time, who longed for the halcyon days of Dunford and Higgs when they had seats at the table being part of the ownership that produced such poor performance. This football game off the field is as funny as the game on it at times. My take thus far is that the ALQs brought an additional element of professionalism, and that the new owners (ASs?) have taken it up another distinct notch Which might be good or bad, but my money’s on good Wael's appointment process in the relegation wasn't professional, and the club was a shambles on and off the pitch. Wael appointed Barton, which was a step back in terms of professionalism. Things were tolerated under JB, which never should have been tolerated. The badmouthing of players in the relegation season was pretty bad, but joking about a challenge by one player being worse than what put him in prison was appalling, and he should have fired there and then. The same with allowing Barton to routinely abuse opposition managers. Allowing JB to appoint his mates and bring in a general for some reason. The stuff around the ground and the needless antagonising of people who gave their time free of charge to the club. And then we had the shambles of the JCH transfer on deadline day. I had high hopes after the DC promotion season, but Wael was ultimately a big disappointment. |
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Post by irenestoyboy on Jan 3, 2024 17:20:58 GMT
LL took quite a wedge out of us I expect and not only that, we were told by both LL and PT that LL wasn't responsible for team selection and tactics. That was PTs job. There is no reason why LL leaving should have had the effect it did with the same squad of players and the same head coach. I am also not sure how you can correlate the loss of LL to NL which happened 2 or 3 manager cycles later? You seem to pick on Higgs, which is fair, he shouldn't be out reproach and made some awful decisions, but we would have hit NL a whole bunch sooner under Dunford and co if it wasn't for Halifax somehow being a whole lot worse than what we served up in 2001/2 with only one team being relegated. We amassed 40 points that season, we were very lucky to survive. We would never have bounced straight back up had we been relegated I'm sure of that. That shouldn't be anything to be proud of either. How DC managed to get us relegated was also quite the acheivement from where he took over but we can forgive him for the way he managed us back up the football league...funnily enough under Higgs! I agree the ALQ ownership bought a level of professionalism to the club which we hadn't had previously, but it was funny that it met with such opposition from the SC, the PC and others at the time, who longed for the halcyon days of Dunford and Higgs when they had seats at the table being part of the ownership that produced such poor performance. This football game off the field is as funny as the game on it at times. Is this a case of “ Always Believe”. Or does he have some kind of hold over you ITB ? Have a hold over me how? |
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Post by irenestoyboy on Jan 3, 2024 17:27:44 GMT
LL took quite a wedge out of us I expect and not only that, we were told by both LL and PT that LL wasn't responsible for team selection and tactics. That was PTs job. There is no reason why LL leaving should have had the effect it did with the same squad of players and the same head coach. I am also not sure how you can correlate the loss of LL to NL which happened 2 or 3 manager cycles later? You seem to pick on Higgs, which is fair, he shouldn't be out reproach and made some awful decisions, but we would have hit NL a whole bunch sooner under Dunford and co if it wasn't for Halifax somehow being a whole lot worse than what we served up in 2001/2 with only one team being relegated. We amassed 40 points that season, we were very lucky to survive. We would never have bounced straight back up had we been relegated I'm sure of that. That shouldn't be anything to be proud of either. How DC managed to get us relegated was also quite the acheivement from where he took over but we can forgive him for the way he managed us back up the football league...funnily enough under Higgs! I agree the ALQ ownership bought a level of professionalism to the club which we hadn't had previously, but it was funny that it met with such opposition from the SC, the PC and others at the time, who longed for the halcyon days of Dunford and Higgs when they had seats at the table being part of the ownership that produced such poor performance. This football game off the field is as funny as the game on it at times. Is this a case of “ Always Believe”. Or does he have some kind of hold over you ITB ? It's a case of we were able to feed players after training and appoint some footballing back room staff, that kind of thing. It also meant that for the first time in how ever long we bought some land, built a training facility and a stand. Something successive boards all failed to do, including the one you were a part of. We went from being properly ragbag to dragging ourselves into century 21 which should have been done long before the ALq ownership. |
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