warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 24, 2020 14:19:58 GMT
So does the local hoody from Boscombe who sells smack. That's my Bambi. Quite some rhetoric. Compelling argument against Skybet, mind. Yes Shoveller, it’s always best to be able to discriminate between legal services and illegal ones, and probably best not to compare them. Hey ho! 😉 UTG!
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 24, 2020 14:56:36 GMT
Sky provide a service, people choose to buy because it’s a service they want. What’s the problem? Plenty of others out there doing the same, British Gas, Local Authority green collection, Insurance Services, BBC Licence Fee, Netflix, Britbox etc. If you don’t want the service don’t buy it, it’s one of the easiest principles to understand, supply and demand. UTG! So does the local hoody from Boscombe who sells smack. So that makes what he's doing just fine by your logic. Got it. Anyway, back on point. You think it's appropriate that a broadcaster promotes its own betting service to a captive audience. I don't. Your point of view will lead to ruined lives, just ask Sandra Jacques. Mine won't. I like my point of view more. Some brief facts about the industry; 0.5% of the UK’s adult population are problem gamblers. (that's over 240,000 people) 15% of online gamblers have been gambling in the workplace in the past four weeks. 3.1% of gamblers have bet more than they can afford to lose. Gambling addiction is estimated to cost the UK between £260 million and £1.2 billion per year. 7% of gamblers said they did so as a way to “earn money to get by day-to-day”. So we'll put you down as a 'maybe', then?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Aug 24, 2020 16:22:19 GMT
Not for the first time the Daily Mail’s headline and facts in the report don’t seem to match.
“ Sky will allow every club to stream their games online “that were scheduled to be televised“ without the club having to pay the broadcasting company, as long as the majority of supporters are still not allowed in the stadiums.‘
I’m not sure what the EFL have contracted for here. Whose paying who what? So only if you were to be televised in the first place? It’s suggests if the sky cameras are there it goes on the club web site. That will be a lot of championship stuff. If I was in charge of EFL I wouldn’t think pay much money for this. have EFL handed silly money to sky just for that when they could have shared it amongst the clubs? ? What am I missing
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 17:43:04 GMT
That's my Bambi. Quite some rhetoric. Compelling argument against Skybet, mind. Yes Shoveller, it’s always best to be able to discriminate between legal services and illegal ones, and probably best not to compare them. Hey ho! 😉 UTG! So, in your world there's no supply and demand pressure in effect in illegal activity. Fair enough. Shoves. It's all gambling, not just Sky, you just can't get away from it, it's all over football, F1, etc, it seems that you can't get through an ad break on TV without something about a draw for a car or the National Lottery, an internet casino, some of which I'm sure are illegal as they are gender specific and there would be outcry if you launched one aimed specifically at Men, then there are ads for bingo, post code lottery, it's just relentless, the ads on YouTube are just as bad, it's everywhere, all offering a dream that the vast majority will never experience. Sky sure as heck aren't offering to stream League matches out of the kindness of their hearts.
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crater
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Post by crater on Aug 24, 2020 20:20:59 GMT
when the fun stops stop
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c4h10
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Post by c4h10 on Aug 24, 2020 20:40:39 GMT
Steady on, Bamber. Nothing Sky does is illegal.
Evil, yes, but not illegal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 21:12:16 GMT
That's my Bambi. Quite some rhetoric. Compelling argument against Skybet, mind. Yes Shoveller, it’s always best to be able to discriminate between legal services and illegal ones, and probably best not to compare them. Bambi didn't though, initially. He did not compare the diamorphine trade with the betting industry. Rather he drew a parallel between them with specific regard to the 'just supplying something people want' justification attempt, with effective rhetoric. This is different. It's what he does best. He did go on to illustrate the wickedness of the mega-gambling industry's exploitation of gamblers though. I agree with him on this, and I would happily abolish it. With regard to discrimination based on legality, that is a side issue in a true moral debate, too. Relevant, but separate.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 24, 2020 21:40:12 GMT
Yes Shoveller, it’s always best to be able to discriminate between legal services and illegal ones, and probably best not to compare them. Bambi didn't though, initially. He did not compare the diamorphine trade with the betting industry. Rather he drew a parallel between them with specific regard to the 'just supplying something people want' justification attempt, with effective rhetoric. This is different. It's what he does best. He did go on to illustrate the wickedness of the mega-gambling industry's exploitation of gamblers though. I agree with him on this, and I would happily abolish it. With regard to discrimination based on legality, that is a side issue in a true moral debate, too. Relevant, but separate. Fair enough. He likened Sky to a “local hoody in Boscombe who sells smack.” (Boscombe is a part of Bournemouth, surprise, surprise!) One is illegal, one, so far is legal. If you disagree and believe they are similar, that’s fine. I think they are different. Some choose to use the service Sky provides, others don’t. Fortunately we all have freedom of choice. I choose not to bet, others choose to. It’s a choice and I don’t think I’ll try and police what other individuals do legally. 😉 Perhaps it depends on how you use Sky. Apart from cricket I don’t watch any sport on Sky so do not see it in the way you and BG do, when we chose to have Sky we did it so all the different generations in the house could have access to a wide range of programmes and we see Sky in those terms. You and others see it differently. It’s a service we pay to use, others don’t. But perhaps one that with their announcement may be used more. Blimey, when the kiddies watch their programmes I never see the evil “big brother” that others do. I will have to look more closely, obviously! UTG!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 21:55:56 GMT
Bambi didn't though, initially. He did not compare the diamorphine trade with the betting industry. Rather he drew a parallel between them with specific regard to the 'just supplying something people want' justification attempt, with effective rhetoric. This is different. It's what he does best. He did go on to illustrate the wickedness of the mega-gambling industry's exploitation of gamblers though. I agree with him on this, and I would happily abolish it. With regard to discrimination based on legality, that is a side issue in a true moral debate, too. Relevant, but separate. Fair enough. He likened Sky to a “local hoody in Boscombe who sells smack.” No, Sir, I don't think he did. He likened the justification of them. There's a big difference between suggesting moral equivalence, and using an extreme example to highlight the weakness of an argument or justification. Read it again!
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Aug 25, 2020 5:38:45 GMT
On occasion- not always- Bambi makes some good points and argues them well. I just get the feeling that if we ever all got together for a bit of a chat and a laugh before a game , someone would have to read out a pre prepared statement from him telling us why we shouldn't be meeting , drinking and laughing. It would be a bit like that episode of Blackadder where Edmund's Puritan aunt & uncle come to stay
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 10:42:09 GMT
On occasion- not always- Bambi makes some good points and argues them well. I just get the feeling that if we ever all got together for a bit of a chat and a laugh before a game , someone would have to read out a pre prepared statement from him telling us why we shouldn't be meeting , drinking and laughing. It would be a bit like that episode of Blackadder where Edmund's Puritan aunt & uncle come to stay Have spent 4 full hours considering this and the sole reason for not laughing that I can come up with would be testicular herniation. This would require self-certification, I am not checking for you.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 25, 2020 10:47:41 GMT
Fair enough. He likened Sky to a “local hoody in Boscombe who sells smack.” No, Sir, I don't think he did. He likened the justification of them. There's a big difference between suggesting moral equivalence, and using an extreme example to highlight the weakness of an argument or justification. Read it again! Yes, but I think the extreme example undermines the power of the overall moral argument here. Bamber makes a powerful case against the proliferation of betting and its increasing entanglement with football and TV coverage in general. As someone who is deeply disturbed by the rise in gambling among young people in the last 10 years I find this a convincing argument. I also think the point that there has to be more dimensions to any given moral discussion than supply and demand is also a very good point. But introducing an example based on illegal behaviour unecessarily muddies the waters here. Surely there are many examples of legal behaviour rooted in supply and demand that are generally considered socially/morally unacceptable that make the same point?
I see a grey area between these positions. I dislike gambling a lot but I have no desire to see it banned (or even particularly restricted) because I think this would be counter-productive and probably impossible in the age of the internet. Not to mention authoritarian and killjoy given that there are a lot of people that want to gamble and do so largely harmlessly. On the other hand I find the increasing influence of gambling on the sports I watch and follow makes me very uncomfortable and I absolutely hate the way it has become a normal part of following sports for nearly everyone I know under the age of 30. But it's very unlikely I'm going to stop following the sports. So is this about supply and demand, my hypocrisy/moral cowardice, simply taking it all way too seriously or something else?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 11:34:48 GMT
Irish.
The drug peddling hoody example was chosen deliberately.
Firstly, it's very real across large parts of Bournemouth, no matter what someone who lives 15 miles from the place would have you believe.
Secondly, that drug dealer, tempting his punter in with a few cheap deals, then when he/she is addicted being prepared to destroy his/her life for personal gain, is no different whatsoever to the gambling industry.
I went onto YouTube this morning, just looking at something unrelated, before I could watch my video up pops an advert from Paddy Power, something about placing a 4 way bet and if 1 of them loses you get a 2nd bet 'for free'. Honestly, it's wholly pervasive and relentless.
Yesterday I put a couple of searches into Google to find those figures that I quoted in a post, that's all it took for web spiders to target me as a potential 'mark' and now I'll have betting ads popping up everywhere for weeks. As you wisely point out, welcome to the wonderful world of the internet.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 25, 2020 11:55:17 GMT
Irish. The drug peddling hoody example was chosen deliberately. Firstly, it's very real across large parts of Bournemouth, no matter what someone who lives 15 miles from the place would have you believe. Secondly, that drug dealer, tempting his punter in with a few cheap deals, then when he/she is addicted being prepared to destroy his/her life for personal gain, is no different whatsoever to the gambling industry. I went onto YouTube this morning, just looking at something unrelated, before I could watch my video up pops an advert from Paddy Power, something about placing a 4 way bet and if 1 of them loses you get a 2nd bet 'for free'. Honestly, it's wholly pervasive and relentless. Yesterday I put a couple of searches into Google to find those figures that I quoted in a post, that's all it took for web spiders to target me as a potential 'mark' and now I'll have betting ads popping up everywhere for weeks. As you wisely point out, welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. Nothing personal Bambi, but that did make me laugh. On a more serious note - I would be in favour of more regulation... but I'm not sure how this can be accomplished? The lowering of the stake to £2 for fixed odds machines was very welcome. I guess Government could limit advertising on TV and ban bookies appearing as sponsors on football/other sports shirts, but that's a relatively small part of the overall marketing strategy...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 12:08:41 GMT
Irish. The drug peddling hoody example was chosen deliberately. Firstly, it's very real across large parts of Bournemouth, no matter what someone who lives 15 miles from the place would have you believe. Secondly, that drug dealer, tempting his punter in with a few cheap deals, then when he/she is addicted being prepared to destroy his/her life for personal gain, is no different whatsoever to the gambling industry. I went onto YouTube this morning, just looking at something unrelated, before I could watch my video up pops an advert from Paddy Power, something about placing a 4 way bet and if 1 of them loses you get a 2nd bet 'for free'. Honestly, it's wholly pervasive and relentless. Yesterday I put a couple of searches into Google to find those figures that I quoted in a post, that's all it took for web spiders to target me as a potential 'mark' and now I'll have betting ads popping up everywhere for weeks. As you wisely point out, welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. Nothing personal Bambi, but that did make me laugh. On a more serious note - I would be in favour of more regulation... but I'm not sure how this can be accomplished? The lowering of the stake to £2 for fixed odds machines was very welcome. I guess Government could limit advertising on TV and ban bookies appearing as sponsors on football/other sports shirts, but that's a relatively small part of the overall marketing strategy... When I crumble and place that first little flutter, just for fun, then end up losing everything and living in a cardboard box an underpass searching bins behind Burger King for yesterday's chips, penniless, crawling with lice, I'll remember your kind words of support.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 25, 2020 12:13:25 GMT
Nothing personal Bambi, but that did make me laugh. On a more serious note - I would be in favour of more regulation... but I'm not sure how this can be accomplished? The lowering of the stake to £2 for fixed odds machines was very welcome. I guess Government could limit advertising on TV and ban bookies appearing as sponsors on football/other sports shirts, but that's a relatively small part of the overall marketing strategy... When I crumble and place that first little flutter, just for fun, then end up losing everything and living in a cardboard box an underpass searching bins behind Burger King for yesterday's chips, penniless, crawling with lice, I'll remember your kind words of support. I bet you won't crumble...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 12:17:53 GMT
When I crumble and place that first little flutter, just for fun, then end up losing everything and living in a cardboard box an underpass searching bins behind Burger King for yesterday's chips, penniless, crawling with lice, I'll remember your kind words of support. I bet you won't crumble... How much?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 25, 2020 12:22:55 GMT
I bet you won't crumble... How much? That's the spirit! Hey - I don't disagree with your sentiment... I just don't know what can realistically be done about it?
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Post by Blue Mist on Aug 25, 2020 12:26:20 GMT
Nothing personal Bambi, but that did make me laugh. On a more serious note - I would be in favour of more regulation... but I'm not sure how this can be accomplished? The lowering of the stake to £2 for fixed odds machines was very welcome. I guess Government could limit advertising on TV and ban bookies appearing as sponsors on football/other sports shirts, but that's a relatively small part of the overall marketing strategy... When I crumble and place that first little flutter, just for fun, then end up losing everything and living in a cardboard box an underpass searching bins behind Burger King for yesterday's chips, penniless, crawling with lice, I'll remember your kind words of support. The odds on any of that happening are slim. I’ve opened a book 1000-1 Bamber crumbles and places a first flutter for fun 500-1 Bamber ends up losing everything, living in a cardboard box in an underpass searching bins behind burger king for yesterdays chips, penniless, crawling with lice. 50-1 Bamber remembers kind words of support Place your bets.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 12:42:38 GMT
That's the spirit! Hey - I don't disagree with your sentiment... I just don't know what can realistically be done about it? We could start by not subscribing to a Sky product, even if it does mean not seeing Rovers play on that platform. Having said that, there seems to be some doubt now about who / what games will be shown anyway? I'm guessing that we can still pay our fiver or whatever it is and see the games via Rovers' own streaming service? I would much rather do that.
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