vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Dec 17, 2019 15:38:30 GMT
Listen to the Martyn S interview. The way that GC behaved on Saturday was idiotic!
He had spoken to Mansfield and made a premediated "outburst" so that BRFC had no alternative. This was all contrived and he has been found out for his conniving.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 15:48:47 GMT
Listen to the Martyn S interview. The way that GC behaved on Saturday was idiotic! He had spoken to Mansfield and made a premediated "outburst" so that BRFC had no alternative. This was all contrived and he has been found out for his conniving. It wasn’t idiotic- if you are a fan of Graham Coughlan it was a smart move, if you are a fan of square dealing then it was pure s***house. His reward for being found out for his conniving is getting what he wants. The contractual side of football really is a pox on the game at times that rewards bad behaviour handsomely. But then them’s the rules and we have to play by them. The sad thing of all of this is that today, despite his behaviour, Graham Coughlan is the big winner by a long shot out of all 3 parties. Let’s revisit this at the end of the season, hopefully that proclamation won’t have aged too well...
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Post by a more piratey game on Dec 17, 2019 16:05:22 GMT
Listen to the Martyn S interview I just did. How very professional. Told us what he could, I thought. No bluffing, blustering or bs. Which makes a nice change
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Post by Colyton Gas. on Dec 17, 2019 16:06:06 GMT
BREAKING: Graham Coughlan joins Mansfield Town. He said: "The main attraction was the ambition of the chairman ... with the ambition at this football club, the facilities, and of course to be able to be at home with my wife and kids, was an absolute mammoth attraction." 🔵⚪
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Dec 18, 2019 12:51:54 GMT
So I've been very busy for this last week and while I saw the Ipswich result I somehow managed to miss all of this - an advantage/disadvantage of living up in Manchester is that Rovers are a fair way down the priority ladder of football fans up here. Looking through the various events and speculations on here I believe the following to be true;
1. Coughlan has conducted himself very badly here irrespective of whatever the wider context is and particularly crapped on all those travelling fans who went to Ipswich. He has surely done his professional reputation some serious harm with the way he carried on.
2. Despite this Coughlan may still be right and I assume has very good reasons for doing this which should be worrying; either from his personal perspective if it's a family thing in which case he deserves sympathy despite everything or from the club perspective in which case we should all be very scared.
3. Whatever the context this sort of thing does not happen at football clubs that are operating in a functional way. Seriously, what causes a manager to walk away from team that's in 4th and massively overachieving to drop down a division? Examples from history please? There are about 50 red lights flashing on the dashboard right now.
4. IF the underlying story here is that our owners are running out of road then why not just throw the kitchen sink at going up this year now? It's pretty much all they have going for them and it might at least make the club more attractive to a buyer. Let's go out in a blaze of glory and be next year's Bury - promotion followed by extinction!
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Post by swissgas on Dec 18, 2019 13:22:35 GMT
So I've been very busy for this last week and while I saw the Ipswich result I somehow managed to miss all of this - an advantage/disadvantage of living up in Manchester is that Rovers are a fair way down the priority ladder of football fans up here. Looking through the various events and speculations on here I believe the following to be true;
1. Coughlan has conducted himself very badly here irrespective of whatever the wider context is and particularly crapped on all those travelling fans who went to Ipswich. He has surely done his professional reputation some serious harm with the way he carried on.
2. Despite this Coughlan may still be right and I assume has very good reasons for doing this which should be worrying; either from his personal perspective if it's a family thing in which case he deserves sympathy despite everything or from the club perspective in which case we should all be very scared.
3. Whatever the context this sort of thing does not happen at football clubs that are operating in a functional way. Seriously, what causes a manager to walk away from team that's in 4th and massively overachieving to drop down a division? Examples from history please? There are about 50 red lights flashing on the dashboard right now.
4. IF the underlying story here is that our owners are running out of road then why not just throw the kitchen sink at going up this year now? It's pretty much all they have going for them and it might at least make the club more attractive to a buyer. Let's go out in a blaze of glory and be next year's Bury - promotion followed by extinction!
Agree with points 1,2 and 3 Irish but with point 4, you have to consider what the objective of the club has now become. In my view that objective now is solely to provide Wael Al Qadi with a position in football. Therefore selling assets (players) makes perfect sense because it raises immediate cash and I think the conditions of sale will reflect that. The sales will be made to clubs offering the most cash up front and not necessarily those offering more over a longer period or attractive sell on provisions. That cash will mean the club can stumble on and , if it is sufficient, Hani may be willing to give the required funding commitment in the 2019 accounts (due in in March) because he won’t need to extend the credit line. It is putting off the dreaded day when the Mem has to be sold but in his excitement about dealing with players agents Wael will have put that thought to the back of his mind. The good news to come out of all this is that we now know that Martyn Starnes is still fulfilling the Community Service Order he told us about on July 17th 2018.
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irishrover
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Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Dec 18, 2019 13:30:46 GMT
So I've been very busy for this last week and while I saw the Ipswich result I somehow managed to miss all of this - an advantage/disadvantage of living up in Manchester is that Rovers are a fair way down the priority ladder of football fans up here. Looking through the various events and speculations on here I believe the following to be true;
1. Coughlan has conducted himself very badly here irrespective of whatever the wider context is and particularly crapped on all those travelling fans who went to Ipswich. He has surely done his professional reputation some serious harm with the way he carried on.
2. Despite this Coughlan may still be right and I assume has very good reasons for doing this which should be worrying; either from his personal perspective if it's a family thing in which case he deserves sympathy despite everything or from the club perspective in which case we should all be very scared.
3. Whatever the context this sort of thing does not happen at football clubs that are operating in a functional way. Seriously, what causes a manager to walk away from team that's in 4th and massively overachieving to drop down a division? Examples from history please? There are about 50 red lights flashing on the dashboard right now.
4. IF the underlying story here is that our owners are running out of road then why not just throw the kitchen sink at going up this year now? It's pretty much all they have going for them and it might at least make the club more attractive to a buyer. Let's go out in a blaze of glory and be next year's Bury - promotion followed by extinction!
Agree with points 1,2 and 3 Irish but with point 4, you have to consider what the objective of the club has now become. In my view that objective now is solely to provide Wael Al Qadi with a position in football. Therefore selling assets (players) makes perfect sense because it raises immediate cash and I think the conditions of sale will reflect that. The sales will be made to clubs offering the most cash up front and not necessarily those offering more over a longer period or attractive sell on provisions. That cash will mean the club can stumble on and , if it is sufficient, Hani may be willing to give the required funding commitment in the 2019 accounts (due in in March) because he won’t need to extend the credit line. It is putting off the dreaded day when the Mem has to be sold but in his excitement about dealing with players agents Wael will have put that thought to the back of his mind. The good news to come out of all this is that we now know that Martyn Starnes is still fulfilling the Community Service Order he told us about on July 17th 2018. I'm not sure I fully buy this because in all honesty what would be the point of that? So Wael gets to keep running a club for another year while the value of the club continues to decline? If these really are the hard headed bankers many have suggested (Wael excluded) then surely they would not conscience such a wreckless and pointless indulgence. How on earth can it be bringing Wael any satisfaction at this point? There must be other ways he could gain a 'position in football'.
I guess we will find out in January if the rumoured mass offloading of players occurs.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 18, 2019 15:18:47 GMT
Agree with points 1,2 and 3 Irish but with point 4, you have to consider what the objective of the club has now become. In my view that objective now is solely to provide Wael Al Qadi with a position in football. Therefore selling assets (players) makes perfect sense because it raises immediate cash and I think the conditions of sale will reflect that. The sales will be made to clubs offering the most cash up front and not necessarily those offering more over a longer period or attractive sell on provisions. That cash will mean the club can stumble on and , if it is sufficient, Hani may be willing to give the required funding commitment in the 2019 accounts (due in in March) because he won’t need to extend the credit line. It is putting off the dreaded day when the Mem has to be sold but in his excitement about dealing with players agents Wael will have put that thought to the back of his mind. The good news to come out of all this is that we now know that Martyn Starnes is still fulfilling the Community Service Order he told us about on July 17th 2018. I'm not sure I fully buy this because in all honesty what would be the point of that? So Wael gets to keep running a club for another year while the value of the club continues to decline? If these really are the hard headed bankers many have suggested (Wael excluded) then surely they would not conscience such a wreckless and pointless indulgence. How on earth can it be bringing Wael any satisfaction at this point? There must be other ways he could gain a 'position in football'.
I guess we will find out in January if the rumoured mass offloading of players occurs.
The value of the club won’t change much unless we get to the Championship because for Rovers it is the value of the land which has determined everything that has happened over the past four years. Wael would never have had the chance to get into football if he couldn’t have found a club with unencumbered tangible assets like the Mem land to acquire and the value of the land is unlikely to decline. So for Wael it’s a question of holding on to see what turns up and I guess, for him personally, something has always turned up. But whether what turns up is good for the football club is another matter. When we ask “how can he be getting any satisfaction out of it” we shouldn’t make the mistake of judging others by our own standards. Only a couple of weeks ago he tweeted a photo of himself as one of a panel of experts at the Football Agents Business Summit where he was presumably using his track record at Rovers to show others how a football club should be run. I am reluctant to fall into the trap of using cliches like “you couldn’t make it up” but ... Openly selling playing assets when any ambitious business in our position would be actively building on those assets to achieve success shows we have reached the watershed moment when it becomes clear that we are going to become permanent also rans. We shall have to forget about trying to emulate clubs like City or Bournemouth and content ourselves with a low risk / low reward existence which, I accept, is not an unpleasant thought to many Gasheads.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 15:51:14 GMT
I'm not sure I fully buy this because in all honesty what would be the point of that? So Wael gets to keep running a club for another year while the value of the club continues to decline? If these really are the hard headed bankers many have suggested (Wael excluded) then surely they would not conscience such a wreckless and pointless indulgence. How on earth can it be bringing Wael any satisfaction at this point? There must be other ways he could gain a 'position in football'.
I guess we will find out in January if the rumoured mass offloading of players occurs.
The value of the club won’t change much unless we get to the Championship because for Rovers it is the value of the land which has determined everything that has happened over the past four years. Wael would never have had the chance to get into football if he couldn’t have found a club with unencumbered tangible assets like the Mem land to acquire and the value of the land is unlikely to decline. So for Wael it’s a question of holding on to see what turns up and I guess, for him personally, something has always turned up. But whether what turns up is good for the football club is another matter. When we ask “how can he be getting any satisfaction out of it” we shouldn’t make the mistake of judging others by our own standards. Only a couple of weeks ago he tweeted a photo of himself as one of a panel of experts at the Football Agents Business Summit where he was presumably using his track record at Rovers to show others how a football club should be run. I am reluctant to fall into the trap of using cliches like “you couldn’t make it up” but ... Openly selling playing assets when any ambitious business in our position would be actively building on those assets to achieve success shows we have reached the watershed moment when it becomes clear that we are going to become permanent also rans. We shall have to forget about trying to emulate clubs like City or Bournemouth and content ourselves with a low risk / low reward existence which, I accept, is not an unpleasant thought to many Gasheads. Out of interest when you say Wael would never have got into football club ownership without unencumbered assets, it seems to be accepted wisdom that their motivation for buying the club was the allure of the money to be made on the UWE. If I understand you correctly your comment about unencumbered assets suggests to me that you are contradicting that belief. Why do you think they bought the club? Do you believe they ever had intended/had the funds to build UWE? Me personally, I have never been convinced they were here to deliver a stadium. They don’t seem to have the finance and they were all set to buy Gillingham and there was very little scope for development there. Wael wanted a football club, any club, imo, and the family under-estimated the general costs and let Wael run away with the equity before reigning him in when it started to get silly.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 18, 2019 16:25:18 GMT
The value of the club won’t change much unless we get to the Championship because for Rovers it is the value of the land which has determined everything that has happened over the past four years. Wael would never have had the chance to get into football if he couldn’t have found a club with unencumbered tangible assets like the Mem land to acquire and the value of the land is unlikely to decline. So for Wael it’s a question of holding on to see what turns up and I guess, for him personally, something has always turned up. But whether what turns up is good for the football club is another matter. When we ask “how can he be getting any satisfaction out of it” we shouldn’t make the mistake of judging others by our own standards. Only a couple of weeks ago he tweeted a photo of himself as one of a panel of experts at the Football Agents Business Summit where he was presumably using his track record at Rovers to show others how a football club should be run. I am reluctant to fall into the trap of using cliches like “you couldn’t make it up” but ... Openly selling playing assets when any ambitious business in our position would be actively building on those assets to achieve success shows we have reached the watershed moment when it becomes clear that we are going to become permanent also rans. We shall have to forget about trying to emulate clubs like City or Bournemouth and content ourselves with a low risk / low reward existence which, I accept, is not an unpleasant thought to many Gasheads. Out of interest when you say Wael would never have got into football club ownership without unencumbered assets, it seems to be accepted wisdom that their motivation for buying the club was the allure of the money to be made on the UWE. If I understand you correctly your comment about unencumbered assets suggests to me that you are contradicting that belief. Why do you think they bought the club? Do you believe they ever had intended/had the funds to build UWE? Me personally, I have never been convinced they were here to deliver a stadium. They don’t seem to have the finance and they were all set to buy Gillingham and there was very little scope for development there. Wael wanted a football club, any club, imo, and the family under-estimated the general costs and let Wael run away with the equity before reigning him in when it started to get silly. Yes, I am contradicting that belief. I think the motivation has always been to provide a football club for Wael and the overriding factor from the start was NO RISK. I think you are right but unfortunately when football fans are unhappy with owners the first criticism they hurl at them is “they are only in it for the money” and that to me is almost always untrue. People who go into football do it for the same reason as people who go into horse racing or other high profile sports which is to show they can compete with other successful people and enjoy the prestige this brings. Unfortunately for us Wael is not a successful businessman but his Dad is and this allowed Wael to get into football but, understandably from a banking family, the premise was NO RISK. We were told right from the start that UWE would not allow debt attached to the stadium and it followed than any type of enabling development would be very restricted in scope. Wael would have known about this but thought that he could pressure UWE into changing their minds and accepting a large enabling development to fully fund the stadium with NO RISK to his family. In Jordan he may have been able to pull enough strings to do it but when you look at the make up of the UWE board you can see they wouldn’t have been fooled and would have quickly looked at Wael and what was behind him and decided it wasn’t in UWE’s interest to go along with his proposal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 16:51:58 GMT
Out of interest when you say Wael would never have got into football club ownership without unencumbered assets, it seems to be accepted wisdom that their motivation for buying the club was the allure of the money to be made on the UWE. If I understand you correctly your comment about unencumbered assets suggests to me that you are contradicting that belief. Why do you think they bought the club? Do you believe they ever had intended/had the funds to build UWE? Me personally, I have never been convinced they were here to deliver a stadium. They don’t seem to have the finance and they were all set to buy Gillingham and there was very little scope for development there. Wael wanted a football club, any club, imo, and the family under-estimated the general costs and let Wael run away with the equity before reigning him in when it started to get silly. Yes, I am contradicting that belief. I think the motivation has always been to provide a football club for Wael and the overriding factor from the start was NO RISK. I think you are right but unfortunately when football fans are unhappy with owners the first criticism they hurl at them is “they are only in it for the money” and that to me is almost always untrue. People who go into football do it for the same reason as people who go into horse racing or other high profile sports which is to show they can compete with other successful people and enjoy the prestige this brings. Unfortunately for us Wael is not a successful businessman but his Dad is and this allowed Wael to get into football but, understandably from a banking family, the premise was NO RISK. We were told right from the start that UWE would not allow debt attached to the stadium and it followed than any type of enabling development would be very restricted in scope. Wael would have known about this but thought that he could pressure UWE into changing their minds and accepting a large enabling development to fully fund the stadium with NO RISK to his family. In Jordan he may have been able to pull enough strings to do it but when you look at the make up of the UWE board you can see they wouldn’t have been fooled and would have quickly looked at Wael and what was behind him and decided it wasn’t in UWE’s interest to go along with his proposal. Thanks, you seem to have a handle on the finances and business motivation so it’s interesting to get your take on how the three unwise men (Wael, Hani and Hamer) ended up following a distant stadium light to wind up at the memorial stadium bearing gifts of debt, overgrown fields and tents So just to be clear: you believe they did have intent to build UWE but it was a vastly different financing model than the one that was in place (all the funding coming from investors looking to build leisure enterprises around the stadium etc)? If so, what do you think attracted them to be on the cusp of taking over at Gillingham before being rebuffed at the 11th hour? Personally a run down entity like Gillingham seems at odds with the image of a family rejuvenating a football club through a development to build a new 20k stadium. Putting aside the stadium why do you think the training ground was purchased but was never completed? The stadium falling through you can perhaps understand but it’s hard not to conclude they either have serious financial problems or were never fully invested in the club if they couldn’t get a modest training facility off the ground. (The ITK’ers had it that 2 million was budgeted but that was later found not to even cover the ground works and a basic installation would have cost 6-8 million).
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Post by swissgas on Dec 18, 2019 20:48:36 GMT
Yes, I am contradicting that belief. I think the motivation has always been to provide a football club for Wael and the overriding factor from the start was NO RISK. I think you are right but unfortunately when football fans are unhappy with owners the first criticism they hurl at them is “they are only in it for the money” and that to me is almost always untrue. People who go into football do it for the same reason as people who go into horse racing or other high profile sports which is to show they can compete with other successful people and enjoy the prestige this brings. Unfortunately for us Wael is not a successful businessman but his Dad is and this allowed Wael to get into football but, understandably from a banking family, the premise was NO RISK. We were told right from the start that UWE would not allow debt attached to the stadium and it followed than any type of enabling development would be very restricted in scope. Wael would have known about this but thought that he could pressure UWE into changing their minds and accepting a large enabling development to fully fund the stadium with NO RISK to his family. In Jordan he may have been able to pull enough strings to do it but when you look at the make up of the UWE board you can see they wouldn’t have been fooled and would have looked at Wael and what was behind him and decided it wasn’t in UWE’s interest to go along with his proposal. Thanks, you seem to have a handle on the finances and business motivation so it’s interesting to get your take on how the three unwise men (Wael, Hani and Hamer) ended up following a distant stadium light to wind up at the memorial stadium bearing gifts of debt, overgrown fields and tents So just to be clear: you believe they did have intent to build UWE but it was a vastly different financing model than the one that was in place (all the funding coming from investors looking to build leisure enterprises around the stadium etc)? If so, what do you think attracted them to be on the cusp of taking over at Gillingham before being rebuffed at the 11th hour? Personally a run down entity like Gillingham seems at odds with the image of a family rejuvenating a football club through a development to build a new 20k stadium. Putting aside the stadium why do you think the training ground was purchased but was never completed? The stadium falling through you can perhaps understand but it’s hard not to conclude they either have serious financial problems or were never fully invested in the club if they couldn’t get a modest training facility off the ground. (The ITK’ers had it that 2 million was budgeted but that was later found not to even cover the ground works and a basic installation would have cost 6-8 million). To respond to you I took a look at the Gillingham accounts and the salient points are that they own their ground which in 2018 was valued at 4 million based on alternative use. They make a small profit of 111 000 on turnover of 7 million after being charged 65 000 interest on a loan of 1.8 million supplied by their directors and secured against the stadium with a further 500 k having been supplied presumably interest free and unsecured. They are looking to acquire a new stadium with help from their local authority and with an appropriate “enabling development” being essential to the plan. Back in 2016 Rovers could have been in a similar position. The Plan to pressurize UWE had failed. Michael Cunnah and Lee Atkins had seen which way the wind was blowing and abruptly departed. At that point about 8 million had been put in but there was still 10+ million equity left in the Mem. Rovers could have started talking to the local councils about a new stadium into which they would roll over that 10 million equity. They could have realized they would need more cash investment and prepared a prospectus outlining the new stadium plan and the business plan. If Dwane were rolling over 10 million and wanted to retain 52% they could have justified a price tag of about 7 million to new investors for a 40% stake. So with funding of 17 million and the Council on board we could have leveraged funds to build a reasonable stadium, sufficient working capital to develop the playing side and Dwane Sports would still have control. Instead, as it could be put, we p*ssed that 10+ million up the Wael. The training ground was a case of being offered a piece of land which appeared to be a NO RISK deal and not thinking it through. All the expenses in maintaining that land, which now run to a few hundred thousand, are paid by Rovers even though the asset is owned by a separate family company and obviously any gain through ownership would go to that company not Rovers. But the most interesting thing to come out of my response to your post is that in looking at the Gillingham accounts I found a 9 million loan which had been written off and was hard to explain. I googled “Gillingham FC 9 million loan” and found a Gillingham Vital forum thread with a long discussion on that very subject. Other supporters don’t seemed frightened about openly discussing the business side of their club so maybe they realize that doing so can add to the enjoyment.
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Post by gastower on Dec 18, 2019 21:35:16 GMT
I believe the plan for the 30 acre training site was to gain planning permission for 10 acres of housing,which ,in turn would fund a20 acre training ground As an Almondsbury boy born and bred there was zero chance of this being granted by South Gloucestershire council as they refused several attempts by the previous owners (ex Churngold directors) who know a lot about gaining planning permission around here
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 19, 2019 8:39:08 GMT
I believe the plan for the 30 acre training site was to gain planning permission for 10 acres of housing,which ,in turn would fund a20 acre training ground As an Almondsbury boy born and bred there was zero chance of this being granted by South Gloucestershire council as they refused several attempts by the previous owners (ex Churngold directors) who know a lot about gaining planning permission around here A chap I know lives in Gaunts Earthcott and wrote recently: "No movement on the training ground though. It is overgrown now. They obviously are planning to sell this off. The water board have just installed a new bigger water main along this country lane. I wonder if there are plans afoot for greater water demand (a new housing estate on the site)?" Just wondered if anyone else had heard anything. Obviously the above is just his opinion, not fact.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Dec 19, 2019 8:59:32 GMT
Loosely directly connected to it all, wondering what folk think of how club have handled the media about all this?
It's the first time I've really heard Starnes interviewed in depth over 10 mins and a few others, and I think he represents the club well.
I warm to his style much more than Hamer. It appears warmer and more genuine.
To me, bringing him in for this sort of situation is a big positive, it subtly suggests a strength and element of control in a chaotic situation and I think that's important at this stage for fans to see the element of professionalism appears to be rising.
Unless you prefer Hamer the gamer..
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 19, 2019 9:01:15 GMT
Out of interest when you say Wael would never have got into football club ownership without unencumbered assets, it seems to be accepted wisdom that their motivation for buying the club was the allure of the money to be made on the UWE. If I understand you correctly your comment about unencumbered assets suggests to me that you are contradicting that belief. Why do you think they bought the club? Do you believe they ever had intended/had the funds to build UWE? Me personally, I have never been convinced they were here to deliver a stadium. They don’t seem to have the finance and they were all set to buy Gillingham and there was very little scope for development there. Wael wanted a football club, any club, imo, and the family under-estimated the general costs and let Wael run away with the equity before reigning him in when it started to get silly. Yes, I am contradicting that belief. I think the motivation has always been to provide a football club for Wael and the overriding factor from the start was NO RISK. I think you are right but unfortunately when football fans are unhappy with owners the first criticism they hurl at them is “they are only in it for the money” and that to me is almost always untrue. People who go into football do it for the same reason as people who go into horse racing or other high profile sports which is to show they can compete with other successful people and enjoy the prestige this brings. Unfortunately for us Wael is not a successful businessman but his Dad is and this allowed Wael to get into football but, understandably from a banking family, the premise was NO RISK. We were told right from the start that UWE would not allow debt attached to the stadium and it followed than any type of enabling development would be very restricted in scope. Wael would have known about this but thought that he could pressure UWE into changing their minds and accepting a large enabling development to fully fund the stadium with NO RISK to his family. In Jordan he may have been able to pull enough strings to do it but when you look at the make up of the UWE board you can see they wouldn’t have been fooled and would have quickly looked at Wael and what was behind him and decided it wasn’t in UWE’s interest to go along with his proposal. With all this NO RISK talk... it's just like they are behaving like bankers. That is what the UWE represented, an opportunity to make some money, with no down-side. Because if UWE didn't happen - there's still £10mil of equity to play with. It was all about the UWE. That was the acid test. I honestly don't think we've come anywhere near another potential stadium site since then. 2 years 4 months and counting.
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Post by swissgas on Dec 19, 2019 15:28:26 GMT
Yes, I am contradicting that belief. I think the motivation has always been to provide a football club for Wael and the overriding factor from the start was NO RISK. I think you are right but unfortunately when football fans are unhappy with owners the first criticism they hurl at them is “they are only in it for the money” and that to me is almost always untrue. People who go into football do it for the same reason as people who go into horse racing or other high profile sports which is to show they can compete with other successful people and enjoy the prestige this brings. Unfortunately for us Wael is not a successful businessman but his Dad is and this allowed Wael to get into football but, understandably from a banking family, the premise was NO RISK. We were told right from the start that UWE would not allow debt attached to the stadium and it followed than any type of enabling development would be very restricted in scope. Wael would have known about this but thought that he could pressure UWE into changing their minds and accepting a large enabling development to fully fund the stadium with NO RISK to his family. In Jordan he may have been able to pull enough strings to do it but when you look at the make up of the UWE board you can see they wouldn’t have been fooled and would have quickly looked at Wael and what was behind him and decided it wasn’t in UWE’s interest to go along with his proposal. With all this NO RISK talk... it's just like they are behaving like bankers. That is what the UWE represented, an opportunity to make some money, with no down-side. Because if UWE didn't happen - there's still £10mil of equity to play with. It was all about the UWE. That was the acid test. I honestly don't think we've come anywhere near another potential stadium site since then. 2 years 4 months and counting. I believe we have two potential sites at the Fruit Market and in South Gloucestershire. And, all joking aside, we are probably at the point where we could “make Rovers great for once” or we could become a permanently third rate club with the “potential” we have always talked about transferring inexorably to Bristol City. I don’t like what Wael has done, I don’t like his continuing full fronted bluster to the football world at a time when he knows the club is in serious trouble and a lot of genuine fans are worried. But the fact is that he owns the shares and his family seem to want to give him what he wants so for a solution to be found it looks as though he will have to be involved. The people behind the development of these two potential sites will have good financial reasons for including a football stadium in their plans. But they won’t include a stadium at any cost and will require a convincing business plan and an assurance of financial stability before going ahead. The question for me is whether Wael is capable of and willing to provide this ? If he isn’t, and these potential new stadium sites do not get properly evaluated because he thought he could charm the developers instead of actually doing some work and risking some cash, then we ought to know. If he is, then there is absolutely no reason why he cannot put out a statement and follow it with regular updates because there is nothing confidential about setting out your vision and the bones of your business plan to show your stakeholders what you are trying to achieve. “Normal” businesses and “”Normal” football clubs do it all the time.
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Post by a more piratey game on Dec 19, 2019 15:58:25 GMT
People who go into football do it for the same reason as people who go into horse racing or other high profile sports which is to show they can compete with other successful people and enjoy the prestige this brings. well put!
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Post by a more piratey game on Dec 19, 2019 16:17:05 GMT
Back in 2016 Rovers could have been in a similar position. The Plan to pressurize UWE had failed. Michael Cunnah and Lee Atkins had seen which way the wind was blowing and abruptly departed. At that point about 8 million had been put in but there was still 10+ million equity left in the Mem. Rovers could have started talking to the local councils about a new stadium into which they would roll over that 10 million equity. They could have realized they would need more cash investment and prepared a prospectus outlining the new stadium plan and the business plan. If Dwane were rolling over 10 million and wanted to retain 52% they could have justified a price tag of about 7 million to new investors for a 40% stake. So with funding of 17 million and the Council on board we could have leveraged funds to build a reasonable stadium, sufficient working capital to develop the playing side and Dwane Sports would still have control. Instead, as it could be put, we p*ssed that 10+ million up the Wael.another interesting expression! if what you posit is true, and I don't think we know anything different, then things are probably not far from coming to a head as accumulated losses reach total asset values so that cash flow funding will be restricted. Despite reputed bottlenecks in the past, we haven't seen that yet and it should make the 'white knight' solution, seemingly dangled by possible Froot Shoots of our future, more tempting week-by-week?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,177
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 19, 2019 19:28:28 GMT
With all this NO RISK talk... it's just like they are behaving like bankers. That is what the UWE represented, an opportunity to make some money, with no down-side. Because if UWE didn't happen - there's still £10mil of equity to play with. It was all about the UWE. That was the acid test. I honestly don't think we've come anywhere near another potential stadium site since then. 2 years 4 months and counting. I believe we have two potential sites at the Fruit Market and in South Gloucestershire.
And, all joking aside, we are probably at the point where we could “make Rovers great for once” or we could become a permanently third rate club with the “potential” we have always talked about transferring inexorably to Bristol City. I don’t like what Wael has done, I don’t like his continuing full fronted bluster to the football world at a time when he knows the club is in serious trouble and a lot of genuine fans are worried. But the fact is that he owns the shares and his family seem to want to give him what he wants so for a solution to be found it looks as though he will have to be involved. The people behind the development of these two potential sites will have good financial reasons for including a football stadium in their plans. But they won’t include a stadium at any cost and will require a convincing business plan and an assurance of financial stability before going ahead. The question for me is whether Wael is capable of and willing to provide this ? If he isn’t, and these potential new stadium sites do not get properly evaluated because he thought he could charm the developers instead of actually doing some work and risking some cash, then we ought to know. If he is, then there is absolutely no reason why he cannot put out a statement and follow it with regular updates because there is nothing confidential about setting out your vision and the bones of your business plan to show your stakeholders what you are trying to achieve. “Normal” businesses and “”Normal” football clubs do it all the time. South Gloucestershire? Is the YTL / Brabazon hangar still in the running then - Bristol Arena incorporating a 20,000 stadium perhap? Good news if it is. I just can't see the Fruit Market working as a site due to access issues. UTG.
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