danrory
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 171 
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Post by danrory on Jul 10, 2016 5:13:16 GMT
A friend who spoke to someone with insider knowledge tells me 17 November...
...general election
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 7:45:52 GMT
A friend who spoke to someone with insider knowledge tells me 17 November... ...general election Hope Labour win, just so that we can be treated to David Lammy refusing to take his seat because he didn't get at least a 2/3rd majority on a minimum 75% turnout. |
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Post by DudeLebowski on Jul 10, 2016 9:28:13 GMT
Oh, this is still going! In that case.....
Browner away at Dagenham, PICK EEE OUT!!'
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 13:51:23 GMT
Perhaps we should't pile all the blame for 2008 on Blair after all we were then a member of one of the greatest organisations the world has ever known, I mean surely the EU were doing something weren't they? Looks like Oldie's prophecy of disaster may be unravelling already  Obama talking absolute bollocks, as we all knew, UK already invited to join TPP trade group which gives direct access to not only USA but also 40% of world GDP and doesn't insist that we allow free movement of labour (compared to 16% of world GDP in the EU, and falling year on year). Wonder how those TTIP negotiations are going, is it 6 years yet, and nothing whatsoever agreed! Of course, free trade agreements can't work without free movement of labour, and America aren't going to agree to that, so I don't know why they are even bothering talking Next up, Germany will tell other EU states to fall in line and agree free trade with us, poor old Mrs Bulldog Chewing a Wasp Merkel has an election to win next year, that'll be a lot harder with tens of thousands of unemployed BMW, VW and Mercedes workers. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 13:57:57 GMT
</3RIP HARAMBE</3 
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 15:43:36 GMT
labour have come out of the whole shabang terribly
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,537
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Post by harrybuckle on Jul 12, 2016 16:18:05 GMT
keep politics out of sport and Rovers forum...
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jul 12, 2016 16:30:24 GMT
Perhaps we should't pile all the blame for 2008 on Blair after all we were then a member of one of the greatest organisations the world has ever known, I mean surely the EU were doing something weren't they? Looks like Oldie's prophecy of disaster may be unravelling already Obama talking absolute bollocks, as we all knew, UK already invited to join TPP trade group which gives direct access to not only USA but also 40% of world GDP and doesn't insist that we allow free movement of labour (compared to 16% of world GDP in the EU, and falling year on year). Wonder how those TTIP negotiations are going, is it 6 years yet, and nothing whatsoever agreed! Of course, free trade agreements can't work without free movement of labour, and America aren't going to agree to that, so I don't know why they are even bothering talking Next up, Germany will tell other EU states to fall in line and agree free trade with us, poor old Mrs Bulldog Chewing a Wasp Merkel has an election to win next year, that'll be a lot harder with tens of thousands of unemployed BMW, VW and Mercedes workers. There's a surprise talking Boll ocks o'bama telling porkies.. ....and keen Remainer business secretary opening trade talks with the rest of the world (yes there is one, a gert big one outside EU!) www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/07/sajid-javid-to-start-round-the-world-trade-tour-to-secure-britis/They said it would never happen! *disclaimer* Sajid Javid claims to be a GasHead, so is that ok to mix Rovers with politics? |
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 12, 2016 16:53:40 GMT
Sums it up. The discussion here. pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm7r1RoWEAAQOZR.jpg(its work safe) If someone can post the picture properly maybe an for this discussion on here. In the long run we will see who is smiling. Hopefully all and hopefully the Brexit baby isn't just smiling as he has done a massive s**t in his pants. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 17:01:43 GMT
Sums it up. The discussion here. pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm7r1RoWEAAQOZR.jpg(its work safe) If someone can post the picture properly maybe an for this discussion on here. In the long run we will see who is smiling. Hopefully all.  |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 13, 2016 11:43:22 GMT
Perhaps we should't pile all the blame for 2008 on Blair after all we were then a member of one of the greatest organisations the world has ever known, I mean surely the EU were doing something weren't they? Looks like Oldie's prophecy of disaster may be unravelling already Obama talking absolute bollocks, as we all knew, UK already invited to join TPP trade group which gives direct access to not only USA but also 40% of world GDP and doesn't insist that we allow free movement of labour (compared to 16% of world GDP in the EU, and falling year on year). Wonder how those TTIP negotiations are going, is it 6 years yet, and nothing whatsoever agreed! Of course, free trade agreements can't work without free movement of labour, and America aren't going to agree to that, so I don't know why they are even bothering talking Next up, Germany will tell other EU states to fall in line and agree free trade with us, poor old Mrs Bulldog Chewing a Wasp Merkel has an election to win next year, that'll be a lot harder with tens of thousands of unemployed BMW, VW and Mercedes workers. The German people are so very different to us. They will tow the line and do what is best for the country. When I lived and worked there, the tax was 45% but they didn't argue as this was to rebuild the Eastern cities. They had an end goal and we're ready to accept the plan as it was for the betterment of the country. From the 3 years I was there what I learned is that the German people and working class especially, will put up with a great deal but only if they have been given a real plan and can see what they are paying for. They are much bigger people in that they will look at the country as a whole and not as what is best for the wealthy or poor. They really do look at the bigger picture whereas we have many who will look at the painting but never see the picture, if you get my drift BG. I was shocked and very pleasantly surprised at how Germans are and how Germany is. My preconceptions were totally wrong. Good, kind and tolerant people who really do look after their fellow countrymen. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 12:13:00 GMT
Looks like Oldie's prophecy of disaster may be unravelling already Obama talking absolute bollocks, as we all knew, UK already invited to join TPP trade group which gives direct access to not only USA but also 40% of world GDP and doesn't insist that we allow free movement of labour (compared to 16% of world GDP in the EU, and falling year on year). Wonder how those TTIP negotiations are going, is it 6 years yet, and nothing whatsoever agreed! Of course, free trade agreements can't work without free movement of labour, and America aren't going to agree to that, so I don't know why they are even bothering talking Next up, Germany will tell other EU states to fall in line and agree free trade with us, poor old Mrs Bulldog Chewing a Wasp Merkel has an election to win next year, that'll be a lot harder with tens of thousands of unemployed BMW, VW and Mercedes workers. The German people are so very different to us. They will tow the line and do what is best for the country. When I lived and worked there, the tax was 45% but they didn't argue as this was to rebuild the Eastern cities. They had an end goal and we're ready to accept the plan as it was for the betterment of the country. From the 3 years I was there what I learned is that the German people and working class especially, will put up with a great deal but only if they have been given a real plan and can see what they are paying for. They are much bigger people in that they will look at the country as a whole and not as what is best for the wealthy or poor. They really do look at the bigger picture whereas we have many who will look at the painting but never see the picture, if you get my drift BG. I was shocked and very pleasantly surprised at how Germans are and how Germany is. My preconceptions were totally wrong. Good, kind and tolerant people who really do look after their fellow countrymen. All true no doubt, and makes my case, Germany is better off with the UK as a customer rather than setting up daft tariffs which make it more difficult for us to buy their products. If punishment tariffs genuinely were a means to an end then maybe people would put up with it, but they wouldn't be, the only losers would be the German people. We'll just buy cars from our new friends in the TPP trade group, or make them ourselves in one of the Japanese owned factories (Japan are members of TPP) Junker and his corrupt band of sociopaths are right to be worried, as Farage said, they need us a lot more than we need them. Brave new world. Bring it on |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 13, 2016 13:39:04 GMT
The German people are so very different to us. They will tow the line and do what is best for the country. When I lived and worked there, the tax was 45% but they didn't argue as this was to rebuild the Eastern cities. They had an end goal and we're ready to accept the plan as it was for the betterment of the country. From the 3 years I was there what I learned is that the German people and working class especially, will put up with a great deal but only if they have been given a real plan and can see what they are paying for. They are much bigger people in that they will look at the country as a whole and not as what is best for the wealthy or poor. They really do look at the bigger picture whereas we have many who will look at the painting but never see the picture, if you get my drift BG. I was shocked and very pleasantly surprised at how Germans are and how Germany is. My preconceptions were totally wrong. Good, kind and tolerant people who really do look after their fellow countrymen. All true no doubt, and makes my case, Germany is better off with the UK as a customer rather than setting up daft tariffs which make it more difficult for us to buy their products. If punishment tariffs genuinely were a means to an end then maybe people would put up with it, but they wouldn't be, the only losers would be the German people. We'll just buy cars from our new friends in the TPP trade group, or make them ourselves in one of the Japanese owned factories (Japan are members of TPP) Junker and his corrupt band of sociopaths are right to be worried, as Farage said, they need us a lot more than we need them. Brave new world. Bring it on Personally I wouldn't buy Jap ricers as I am a confirmed and paid up #PorscheWhaunker and #BMWwhaunker |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 14:33:58 GMT
All true no doubt, and makes my case, Germany is better off with the UK as a customer rather than setting up daft tariffs which make it more difficult for us to buy their products. If punishment tariffs genuinely were a means to an end then maybe people would put up with it, but they wouldn't be, the only losers would be the German people. We'll just buy cars from our new friends in the TPP trade group, or make them ourselves in one of the Japanese owned factories (Japan are members of TPP) Junker and his corrupt band of sociopaths are right to be worried, as Farage said, they need us a lot more than we need them. Brave new world. Bring it on Personally I wouldn't buy Jap ricers as I am a confirmed and paid up #PorscheWhaunker and #BMWwhaunker Putting aside personal preferences, just look at the Japanese vision. Whilst we were tieing ourselves to a stupid ideology, the Japanese were busy spreading their wings and establishing manufacturing bases the world over. They are now pretty much shielded against exchange rate fluctuations and aren't tied to one trade block. Always at least one step ahead. Meanwhile, in the UK, myopic morons still argue that we should go backwards towards the doomed EU. |
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 13, 2016 16:30:33 GMT
Bamber,
Regardless of any differing views on Remain/Leave, you cannot honestly hold the Japanese economy as a model. It has hardly grown since the late eighties and it has a massive public debt overhang (after trying to spend its way via massive and often useless infratstructure spending (good old Keynesian economic policy) and it has its own CAP with the subsidies to an inefficient rice farming sector. Yes it has some world class manufacturing, but the economy as a whole is nothing to be held up high. It will have a population crisis with a rapidly aging population, and the economy and society has major structural issues.
Alot of the issues came from the late eighties and the insistence of the US for the Japanese to spend their way to reduce the current account surplus with the US, that built on a basis property bubble which went bang and major underlying imbalances in the economy. No we do not want to follow the Japanese. Look at the corporate issues at companies like Olympus.
Trade is built on competitive advantages, we do have a very good high end manufacturing sector but we do not have the broad basis of manufacturing like in Germany and Japan (its gone and lot of that was down to Thatcher in the early eighties compounding a globe recession, a high pound when North Sea Oil revenues coming on stream, with a monetary policy increasing interest rates because they thought monetarism was the god (and your mate Patrick Minford supported that), but we need to concentrate on what we are good at beyond manufacturing, and that may mean services including might I say financial services, retailing, the law, design, fashion, creative industries, advertising... Also the structure of our economy may mean a falling pound doesn't help.
P.S. I thought a lot of the Thatcher reforms were needed but following monetarism in the early eighties was a disaster for the manufacturing sector.
Japan lost a decade, if not decades. They may not be in the EU, but they are definately not an economy to follow.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 16:48:18 GMT
Bamber, Regardless of any differing views on Remain/Leave, you cannot honestly hold the Japanese economy as a model. It has hardly grown since the late eighties and it has a massive public debt overhang (after trying to spend its way via massive and often useless infratstructure spending (good old Keynesium) and it has its own CAP with the subsidies to an inefficient rice farming sector. Yes it has some world class manufacturing, but the economy as a whole is nothing to be held up high. It will have a population crisis with a rapidly aging population, and the economy and society has major structural issues. Alot of the issues came from the late eighties and the insistence of the US for the Japanese to spend their way to reduce the current account surplus with the US, that built on a basis property bubble which went bang and major underlying imbalances in the economy. No we do not want to follow the Japanese. Look at the corporate issues at companies like Olympus. Trade is built on competitive advantages, we do have a very good high end manufacturing sector, but we need to concentrate on what we are good at beyond manufacturing, and that may mean services including might I say financial services, retailing, the law, design, fashion, creative industries, advertising... Also the structure of our economy may mean a falling pound doesn't help. If the best you can do is throw at the Japanese what was happening there in the 1980s (yes, I know there's still a hangover in the domestic economy) I may as well compare Japan today to UK picket lines of the 70s. Have a word with Oldie and bring him up to speed on his old mate Keynes will you? |
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 13, 2016 17:05:09 GMT
The policy in the 80s lead to many (not all) the issues the Japanese economy has now. The policy in the 70s lead to some of the issues in the 80s and beyond. I was criticising Keynesian policy. Japan has not just lost a decade, its lost three decades: dailyreckoning.com/japans-third-lost-decade/Practically every economist in the world accepts Japan has major economic problems. Their PM does. You argued: "Whilst we were tieing ourselves to a stupid ideology, the Japanese were busy spreading their wings and establishing manufacturing bases the world over. They are now pretty much shielded against exchange rate fluctuations and aren't tied to one trade block. " Japan = not in EU = Japan could thus follow very successful economic policy. Problem with that argument Japanese economy is in worst shape than ours is and we could have employed better policies at home. The fact Japan is outside the EU is no argument for us to be, becuase their economy is in poor shape. There may well be an argument for being out the EU but pointing to Japan as an example of success outside the EU, simply does not work as an argument. Read more: gasheads.org/thread/5341/chairmans-message#ixzz4EJHOrqJdAnyway I will move on, this discussion has moved on from the original point and has little to do with a football forum. I suspect all are bored of it bar us. I will leave you to have the final word which you will no doubt wish to make. |
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jul 13, 2016 17:25:30 GMT
......i blame Angas! Haha!
But to be fair, that particular chairman's message was awful as title refers..
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 18:24:44 GMT
The policy in the 80s lead to many (not all) the issues the Japanese economy has now. The policy in the 70s lead to some of the issues in the 80s and beyond. I was criticising Keynesian policy. Japan has not just lost a decade, its lost three decades: dailyreckoning.com/japans-third-lost-decade/Practically every economist in the world accepts Japan has major economic problems. Their PM does. You argued: "Whilst we were tieing ourselves to a stupid ideology, the Japanese were busy spreading their wings and establishing manufacturing bases the world over. They are now pretty much shielded against exchange rate fluctuations and aren't tied to one trade block. " Japan = not in EU = Japan could thus follow very successful economic policy. Problem with that argument Japanese economy is in worst shape than ours is and we could have employed better policies at home. The fact Japan is outside the EU is no argument for us to be, becuase their economy is in poor shape. There may well be an argument for being out the EU but pointing to Japan as an example of success outside the EU, simply does not work as an argument. Read more: gasheads.org/thread/5341/chairmans-message#ixzz4EJHOrqJdAnyway I will move on, this discussion has moved on from the original point and has little to do with a football forum. I suspect all are bored of it bar us. I will leave you to have the final word which you will no doubt wish to make. Come on mate It was not Keynesian policies that are the issue with Japan, it's myopic nationalism Just like we are advocating in the UK post Brexit |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 20:37:07 GMT
The policy in the 80s lead to many (not all) the issues the Japanese economy has now. The policy in the 70s lead to some of the issues in the 80s and beyond. I was criticising Keynesian policy. Japan has not just lost a decade, its lost three decades: dailyreckoning.com/japans-third-lost-decade/Practically every economist in the world accepts Japan has major economic problems. Their PM does. You argued: "Whilst we were tieing ourselves to a stupid ideology, the Japanese were busy spreading their wings and establishing manufacturing bases the world over. They are now pretty much shielded against exchange rate fluctuations and aren't tied to one trade block. " Japan = not in EU = Japan could thus follow very successful economic policy. Problem with that argument Japanese economy is in worst shape than ours is and we could have employed better policies at home. The fact Japan is outside the EU is no argument for us to be, becuase their economy is in poor shape. There may well be an argument for being out the EU but pointing to Japan as an example of success outside the EU, simply does not work as an argument. Read more: gasheads.org/thread/5341/chairmans-message#ixzz4EJHOrqJdAnyway I will move on, this discussion has moved on from the original point and has little to do with a football forum. I suspect all are bored of it bar us. I will leave you to have the final word which you will no doubt wish to make. Come on mate It was not Keynesian policies that are the issue with Japan, it's myopic nationalism Just like we are advocating in the UK post Brexit Odd, I thought you would have liked his debating style, find a book or quote that agrees with you and present it as being revealed truth. Tell me about your experience running businesses in Japan, or have you got it all from a book? Wouldn't it be the case that dealing with double the population and well over double the GDP, spread over a much larger geographical area by joining TPP was the exact opposite of myopic nationalism? |
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