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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jul 7, 2016 7:17:10 GMT
But the trouble (in my opinion) with this freedom of movement of labour is that it is seen ideologically by our EU lords and masters as being completely unfettered and untouchable. Which can lead, for example, as has been tragically shown in the recent past, where health professionals are allowed in and language barriers and different levels of qualifications provide tragic outcomes. In ASEAN countries, for example, which is trying to mirror the EU single market model they only provide freedom of movement of labour for certain professions and even then these "movers" have to take a licence test in the language of the country to which they are moving. A sensible degree of governance to maintain standards. They also do not have any appetite, it seems, for this Federalist malarkey, which goes back to the simple point of "In Europe, not governed by Europe". That is my fundamental sticking point about the EU - happy to work with them, happy to have the freedoms and yes, happy to have some degree of legislation but why, oh why, does it mean we have to have this oppressive federalist union foisted on us? There is a degree of sense in working closely with your neighbouring countries, there is a line stepped over to go beyond and foist a Federal Union on millions of people across a continent of so many different countries with different economies. It is a recipe for disaster in my view and if pushed to the ultimate limit will provide for more unrest rather than less. Accept your points. I think my worry is the leaders of the Leave campaign simply did not have a plan of what to do post BREXIT. BREXIT is not an end in itself, it is a means to an end. The worry is none seem to know what the end is (Boris and I believe Andrea Leadsom supported Leave purely for personal political reasons), I do think Gove may know what he wants the end to be, but that will not be very attractive to many who voted Leave, it will be an ultra right wing economic outlook. However, before you even start negotiating on what trading relationship we want with the EU, we have to decide what economic structure we want at home. Unfortunately I think we have been told to get in the car, got in the car, but have no idea where we are going. Maybe I am too cautious but I preferred to say in my warm bus stop. Anyway it may be an exciting ride, but potentially a dangerous one. We live in interesting times. Unfortunately we have no Atlee or Thatcher at the wheel who has a map in their head, we just have a lot of political pygmies (on both sides). If the Leave camp didn't have a plan (not easy for them as largely the government was on the Remain camp) what was the Remain camps plan - will negotiate further reforms but the EU were saying absolutely no more reforms, will control immigration from within the eu ignoring the fact that no-one has been able to control immigration in the EU, trade did they have a plan for more trade well know because that is in the hands of the EU. So exactly which camps didn't have a plan? As to an internal market & the four pillars. Well it's the EU that you are believing there because that's the only way that has been tried. On that basis had we had the EU in the stone age I doubt we'd even have wheels today. And let's not forget our good European neighbours are selective on how they apply those four pillars, the French for instance (remember they never wanted us in the EU in the first place) routinely stand aside whilst their farmers destroy imported goods.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 7:24:18 GMT
Leave Campaign's First Cabinet Meeting
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,537
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Post by harrybuckle on Jul 7, 2016 7:39:49 GMT
we are stronger on our own... don't forget we have our dear US buddies they will look after us A massive world market to explore.Join the labour party and support Jeremy he hates the EU always has.
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Post by tanksfull on Jul 7, 2016 7:46:06 GMT
we are stronger on our own... don't forget we have our dear US buddies they will look after us A massive world market to explore.Join the labour party and support Jeremy he hates the EU always has. Please let that be sarcastic! Is he buddies with the USA? Is he buddies with anyone? Oh yes wait a minute...
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 7:52:58 GMT
we are stronger on our own... don't forget we have our dear US buddies they will look after us A massive world market to explore.Join the labour party and support Jeremy he hates the EU always has. Please let that be sarcastic! Is he buddies with the USA? Is he buddies with anyone? Oh yes wait a minute...
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 7, 2016 8:54:35 GMT
we are stronger on our own... don't forget we have our dear US buddies they will look after us A massive world market to explore.Join the labour party and support Jeremy he hates the EU always has. Indeed Harry we could join as a new state of the US and become part of their internal market, they love our accent. There was a debate right at the start of the US what structure they wanted to the US, whether to have a Federal Reserve (ala European Central bank) and obviously they had their disagreements between 1861 and 1865. Apparently the show Hamilton is very good: www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/theatre/feature/a783839/what-is-this-hamilton-broadway-show-anyway-and-why-should-i-care/Maybe in times to come there will be a WestEnd Play called 'BREXIT: The Musical'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 16:19:27 GMT
Leave Campaign's First Cabinet Meeting and YOU accuse others of lowering the tone ?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,556
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 7, 2016 16:46:35 GMT
Perhaps Oldies rapier like wit is better suited to Gaschat.
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Post by matealotblue on Jul 7, 2016 17:51:17 GMT
Leave Campaign's First Cabinet Meeting Just goes to show how far back the EU had taken us before 17m people had their voices heard. Now we can move forward from there. Thanks for highlighting that to everyone.
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 7, 2016 19:10:40 GMT
I think the picture is pretty accurate, the guy on the far right as you look at the photo is Michael Gove as he a rock in his hand and is about to hit the guy in the middle sat down over the head with it, that's Boris likes to talk but doesn't do much, the old woman at the back is Andrea Leasdom, she doesn't look like she has a very important job, but she does, well she says she does as does her CV, she invented the wheel you known. Theresa Mays not there as she was on the Remain side. The guy on the far left with the deer over his shoulder has been out hunting as the economy has collapsed into a barter economy, despite what Epping claims.
Got a laugh haven't you.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jul 7, 2016 19:45:24 GMT
Oh I thought it was a pic of the future after we all nuke each other because we've said bog off to the Reichstag..(?)
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Post by matealotblue on Jul 7, 2016 20:00:38 GMT
Got to say, judging by the right arm of that bloke stood up in the middle, that not much of that £350m seems to have been spent on the NHS.
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
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Post by dido on Jul 7, 2016 21:09:08 GMT
He stood up in the middle is Stephen Crabbe, who when Dr. Fox's bid went up in flames, threw his hand in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 21:13:37 GMT
Leave Campaign's First Cabinet Meeting and YOU accuse others of lowering the tone ? I did? Ha ha ha
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 21:17:57 GMT
All going well so far
Shopping centres, office blocks and warehouses worth up to £5bn could be put up for sale as the turmoil in the UK commercial property sector prompted by the Brexit vote forces fund managers to revalue their portfolios or temporarily prevent investors withdrawing their savings.
With the pound under pressure on the foreign exchange markets, fund managers Legal & General, Foreign & Colonial and Dutch-owned Kames cut the value of their property funds on Thursday. L&G cut the value of its £2.3bn fund by 10% – following a 5% cut last week – while F&C and Kanes both cut by 5%.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jul 8, 2016 8:34:11 GMT
All going well so far Shopping centres, office blocks and warehouses worth up to £5bn could be put up for sale as the turmoil in the UK commercial property sector prompted by the Brexit vote forces fund managers to revalue their portfolios or temporarily prevent investors withdrawing their savings. With the pound under pressure on the foreign exchange markets, fund managers Legal & General, Foreign & Colonial and Dutch-owned Kames cut the value of their property funds on Thursday. L&G cut the value of its £2.3bn fund by 10% – following a 5% cut last week – while F&C and Kanes both cut by 5%. Not happened since 2008 when we were firmly ensconced in the EU.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,537
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Post by harrybuckle on Jul 8, 2016 9:31:21 GMT
All going well so far Shopping centres, office blocks and warehouses worth up to £5bn could be put up for sale as the turmoil in the UK commercial property sector prompted by the Brexit vote forces fund managers to revalue their portfolios or temporarily prevent investors withdrawing their savings. With the pound under pressure on the foreign exchange markets, fund managers Legal & General, Foreign & Colonial and Dutch-owned Kames cut the value of their property funds on Thursday. L&G cut the value of its £2.3bn fund by 10% – following a 5% cut last week – while F&C and Kanes both cut by 5%. Not happened since 2008 when we were firmly ensconced in the EU. no need to panic Mr Mannering ..we are in safe hands ...the Iron Lady will soon tell Mark Carney and Osbourne where to go
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Post by PessimistGas on Jul 8, 2016 9:48:26 GMT
This is an absurd situation. 52-48% not a clear enough result to legitimise taking such a nuclear option. A margin of 60-40 should have been required, it wasn't because CamoMORON was so overconfident he was bragging he could secure a 70% in vote.
IMO there should be another referendum once we know EXACTLY what our new relationship with the EU will look like.
By then the devestating short to medium term economic concequences and brutal austerity should be painfully clear and might focus a few million minds on the reality of what they actually voted for.
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 8, 2016 10:00:12 GMT
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jul 8, 2016 10:06:05 GMT
This is an absurd situation. 52-48% not a clear enough result to legitimise taking such a nuclear option. A margin of 60-40 should have been required, it wasn't because CamoMORON was so overconfident he was bragging he could secure a 70% in vote. IMO there should be another referendum once we know EXACTLY what our new relationship with the EU will look like. By then the devestating short to medium term economic concequences and brutal austerity should be painfully clear and might focus a few million minds on the reality of what they actually voted for. How is that going to happen? The EU have said no negotiations until Article 50 invoked, once Article 50 is invoked then you have committed to leave the EU. So the next referendum would have to be about supporting a bid to rejoin the eu at which point the EU would undoubtedly say here is our offer it's the euro plus political integration etc. As to referendum voting percentages I never heard anyone proposing limits before they lost the referendum, nor did I hear the SNP calling for those limits in the Scottish referendum.
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