Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 10:20:51 GMT
All going well so far Shopping centres, office blocks and warehouses worth up to £5bn could be put up for sale as the turmoil in the UK commercial property sector prompted by the Brexit vote forces fund managers to revalue their portfolios or temporarily prevent investors withdrawing their savings. With the pound under pressure on the foreign exchange markets, fund managers Legal & General, Foreign & Colonial and Dutch-owned Kames cut the value of their property funds on Thursday. L&G cut the value of its £2.3bn fund by 10% – following a 5% cut last week – while F&C and Kanes both cut by 5%. Not happened since 2008 when we were firmly ensconced in the EU. Indeed. Whilst one could argue more effective regulation might have prevented the banking collapse, the cause in 2008 was exactly that. This time it is entirely self inflicted by the Brexiteers |
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Post by tanksfull on Jul 8, 2016 11:29:51 GMT
This is an absurd situation. 52-48% not a clear enough result to legitimise taking such a nuclear option. A margin of 60-40 should have been required, it wasn't because CamoMORON was so overconfident he was bragging he could secure a 70% in vote. IMO there should be another referendum once we know EXACTLY what our new relationship with the EU will look like. By then the devestating short to medium term economic concequences and brutal austerity should be painfully clear and might focus a few million minds on the reality of what they actually voted for. How is that going to happen? The EU have said no negotiations until Article 50 invoked, once Article 50 is invoked then you have committed to leave the EU. So the next referendum would have to be about supporting a bid to rejoin the eu at which point the EU would undoubtedly say here is our offer it's the euro plus political integration etc. As to referendum voting percentages I never heard anyone proposing limits before they lost the referendum, nor did I hear the SNP calling for those limits in the Scottish referendum. Well there is a petition with 4m+ signatures - petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215 It was started before the election by someone who wanted to leave the EU. |
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Post by matealotblue on Jul 8, 2016 11:32:08 GMT
Not happened since 2008 when we were firmly ensconced in the EU. Indeed. Whilst one could argue more effective regulation might have prevented the banking collapse, the cause in 2008 was exactly that. This time it is entirely self inflicted by the Brexiteers Or the Remainers who couldn't be fussed to get out of bed and vote. Look to your own shortcomings before blaming others. Everyone had a choice, if you don't exercise it - Tough!! |
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 8, 2016 11:55:02 GMT
My view is there should be no new referendum and the result was valid. The 'youth' moaning that they were not taking notice off is countered by the very low turnout for the younger age groups, so I think my statement is 'tough' and I am Remainer! Lies were told but that is regrettable but frankly that is politics.
However, two points:
(a) I think Ian Hislop made a very good point on Question Time last night, the 48 percent who voted to stay in the EU can still validly argue for that despite the result and continue to be unhappy and argue their case. The political debate continues. Sixty percent of the British public usually do not vote for the governing party in any election and they have every right for the next five years to argue against that government. So it is unjustified for some Brexiteers to argue the Remainers should 'shut up'. However, a re-run of the Referendum in this parliament would be undemocratic;
(b) However if there was a General Election and the winning party had a platform to stay then yes that is democratic. I suspect that it is unlikely there will be any election soon (and at the very earliest should be post the formulation of any negotiating strategy with the EU) and I think it unlikely an overtly Remain Party would win an overall majority, but its possible and if the public voted for that 'new government' following any change in the new economic and political condition of the UK that would be a legitimate vote. Not sure once Art 50 is served we could back out anyway, maybe the submission would just be ignored?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 12:22:19 GMT
Not happened since 2008 when we were firmly ensconced in the EU. Indeed. Whilst one could argue more effective regulation might have prevented the banking collapse, the cause in 2008 was exactly that. This time it is entirely self inflicted by the Brexiteers In which case, you'll be along in a couple of years, once things have stabilised, new trade agreements established and the economy is flying, to thank those that saw the bigger picture. Don't worry, I'm not being serious, I know you never admit that you are wrong  |
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jul 8, 2016 12:35:56 GMT
Not happened since 2008 when we were firmly ensconced in the EU. Indeed. Whilst one could argue more effective regulation might have prevented the banking collapse, the cause in 2008 was exactly that. This time it is entirely self inflicted by the Brexiteers Glad to see we are finally agreeing that markets panic inside and outside of the EU. Didn't you also blame Margaret Thatcher for the 2008 financial crash despite her not having been in power for 18 years? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 20:06:03 GMT
Indeed. Whilst one could argue more effective regulation might have prevented the banking collapse, the cause in 2008 was exactly that. This time it is entirely self inflicted by the Brexiteers Glad to see we are finally agreeing that markets panic inside and outside of the EU. Didn't you also blame Margaret Thatcher for the 2008 financial crash despite her not having been in power for 18 years? No, but I did blame her for thoughtless deregulation, and an atmosphere that ALL regulation was an infringement on the free markets. An it was that process that led to the financial markets running amok |
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jul 9, 2016 10:38:00 GMT
Glad to see we are finally agreeing that markets panic inside and outside of the EU. Didn't you also blame Margaret Thatcher for the 2008 financial crash despite her not having been in power for 18 years? No, but I did blame her for thoughtless deregulation, and an atmosphere that ALL regulation was an infringement on the free markets. An it was that process that led to the financial markets running amok Well it wasn't her process it was Tony (scumbag, war criminal) Blair's process, he either agreed with what had happened before he was Prime Minister or had the power to change it (admittedly he had neither the intellect or backbone to change it). |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 9, 2016 11:44:19 GMT
Bliar and Brown famously adopted a "laissez-faire" attitude to the City and allowed Investment Banks to run amok unchecked. Under Thatcher & Major there was tighter regulation. Period. Bliar didn't care because he was getting big tax receipts. He didn't look at the bigger picture.
A number of complex issues led to the credit crunch of 2007, but Bliar inevitably has to take his share of the blame.
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Post by lostinspace on Jul 9, 2016 11:58:24 GMT
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jul 9, 2016 12:43:29 GMT
Perhaps we should't pile all the blame for 2008 on Blair after all we were then a member of one of the greatest organisations the world has ever known, I mean surely the EU were doing something weren't they?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 12:53:01 GMT
It was the Big Bang of 1986 that led to the belief that all regulation was bad, everything that followed is part of history. Pensions fraud, Savings & Loans in the USA. The labour victory in 1997 was against a backdrop of this and a party intent to show it was not anti market nor anti business. The whole political atmosphere was driven by this. As late as 2006 Osborne was famously saying that the UK should follow the model in Eire, and Greenspan had already disastrously loosened credit in the States. But ultimately it was an untamed asset bubble that created the collapse, not public debt, not government action, but Government inaction. Both Tory and Labour are to blame for piss poor governance. But the ultimate blame lies with the financial companies gambling with our money, unchecked, right up to and including fraud. We are still paying for this in the degree of public debt that had to be created to bail out the financial system or face absolute collapse.
Nothing to do with the EU (although the central charge of inaction applies equally).
This time, if it happens, its from a direct choice of this referendum.
Fortunately, despite the naysayers, Carney has a plan it seems. So far it appears to be working and the impact is restricted to property based investment funds and the currency ie GBP. If it holds at that then all well and good and thank you Governor.
If not and the contagion spreads, god help us.
As a footnote I see the Chinese are deliberately devaluing their currency and rumours of wholesale dumping products.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jul 9, 2016 13:29:09 GMT
It was the Big Bang of 1986 that led to the belief that all regulation was bad, everything that followed is part of history. Pensions fraud, Savings & Loans in the USA. The labour victory in 1997 was against a backdrop of this and a party intent to show it was not anti market nor anti business. The whole political atmosphere was driven by this. As late as 2006 Osborne was famously saying that the UK should follow the model in Eire, and Greenspan had already disastrously loosened credit in the States. But ultimately it was an untamed asset bubble that created the collapse, not public debt, not government action, but Government inaction. Both Tory and Labour are to blame for piss poor governance. But the ultimate blame lies with the financial companies gambling with our money, unchecked, right up to and including fraud. We are still paying for this in the degree of public debt that had to be created to bail out the financial system or face absolute collapse.Nothing to do with the EU (although the central charge of inaction applies equally). This time, if it happens, its from a direct choice of this referendum. Fortunately, despite the naysayers, Carney has a plan it seems. So far it appears to be working and the impact is restricted to property based investment funds and the currency ie GBP. If it holds at that then all well and good and thank you Governor. If not and the contagion spreads, god help us. As a footnote I see the Chinese are deliberately devaluing their currency and rumours of wholesale dumping products. Personally I'm not directly due to Gordon Brown's incompetence I've been paid more than ever. In truth I should love the bloke rather than looking forward to dancing on his grave. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 14:40:06 GMT
It was the Big Bang of 1986 that led to the belief that all regulation was bad, everything that followed is part of history. Pensions fraud, Savings & Loans in the USA. The labour victory in 1997 was against a backdrop of this and a party intent to show it was not anti market nor anti business. The whole political atmosphere was driven by this. As late as 2006 Osborne was famously saying that the UK should follow the model in Eire, and Greenspan had already disastrously loosened credit in the States. But ultimately it was an untamed asset bubble that created the collapse, not public debt, not government action, but Government inaction. Both Tory and Labour are to blame for piss poor governance. But the ultimate blame lies with the financial companies gambling with our money, unchecked, right up to and including fraud. We are still paying for this in the degree of public debt that had to be created to bail out the financial system or face absolute collapse. Nothing to do with the EU (although the central charge of inaction applies equally). This time, if it happens, its from a direct choice of this referendum. Fortunately, despite the naysayers, Carney has a plan it seems. So far it appears to be working and the impact is restricted to property based investment funds and the currency ie GBP. If it holds at that then all well and good and thank you Governor. If not and the contagion spreads, god help us. As a footnote I see the Chinese are deliberately devaluing their currency and rumours of wholesale dumping products. Then they should have as item 1 on the agenda at the first cabinet meeting; Get us out of the EU. We would be 19 years further ahead. |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 9, 2016 15:48:03 GMT
It was the Big Bang of 1986 that led to the belief that all regulation was bad, everything that followed is part of history. Pensions fraud, Savings & Loans in the USA. The labour victory in 1997 was against a backdrop of this and a party intent to show it was not anti market nor anti business. The whole political atmosphere was driven by this. As late as 2006 Osborne was famously saying that the UK should follow the model in Eire, and Greenspan had already disastrously loosened credit in the States. But ultimately it was an untamed asset bubble that created the collapse, not public debt, not government action, but Government inaction. Both Tory and Labour are to blame for piss poor governance. But the ultimate blame lies with the financial companies gambling with our money, unchecked, right up to and including fraud. We are still paying for this in the degree of public debt that had to be created to bail out the financial system or face absolute collapse. Nothing to do with the EU (although the central charge of inaction applies equally). This time, if it happens, its from a direct choice of this referendum. Fortunately, despite the naysayers, Carney has a plan it seems. So far it appears to be working and the impact is restricted to property based investment funds and the currency ie GBP. If it holds at that then all well and good and thank you Governor. If not and the contagion spreads, god help us. As a footnote I see the Chinese are deliberately devaluing their currency and rumours of wholesale dumping products. China has been keeping it's currency artificially low for at least the last 20 years. (I used to work at the Bank of China International). A deliberately weak currency? Mmmm. As I said many moons ago "a weaker currency is not necessarily a bad thing". It has pros and cons. A bit like us leaving the EU. Pros and cons. Some people see both sides of the coin. Some are just blinkered and cannot accept that life outside the EU might just be better in the long run. I'm positive and enthusiastic about the future. You're not. Fair enough. |
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Post by lostinspace on Jul 9, 2016 16:40:30 GMT
seen as "the only thing in life" lets just get on with it, the only people creating this "shaky period" are the money men, having made their big deals on the few days after, they are now afraid of losing it all and trying their best to create this atmosphere of doom and gloom... enticing the "remainers" to keep up this absurd need for another referendum to "undo" this great injustice!! The likes of Branson saying he may take his group out of GB is disgusting.. just who put him where he is when he went to all and sundry to get his VIRGIN empire off the ground,he was lauded across the UK as the great entrepenuer of the day when he finally took to the skies... with BRITISH money
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 17:14:18 GMT
seen as "the only thing in life" lets just get on with it, the only people creating this "shaky period" are the money men, having made their big deals on the few days after, they are now afraid of losing it all and trying their best to create this atmosphere of doom and gloom... enticing the "remainers" to keep up this absurd need for another referendum to "undo" this great injustice!! The likes of Branson saying he may take his group out of GB is disgusting.. just who put him where he is when he went to all and sundry to get his VIRGIN empire off the ground,he was lauded across the UK as the great entrepenuer of the day when he finally took to the skies... with BRITISH money Ignore Branson. He was just playing to an audience and setting the tone for negotiations with UK government departments. But looking at the bigger picture, for every loser, there's a winner. If the EU is such a great opportunity then why were Junker, Shultz and Barossa so angry? They should be happy, bigger share of the pie for Luxembourg, Germany and Portugal you would think. Couldn't be that they need us to sell their tat to at inflated prices, need our millions of quid a day subs and need us to create employment for EU citizens after their failed policies have created havoc and misery all across Europe, surely not? |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 9, 2016 20:11:49 GMT
Rovers won 0-3. UTG
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Post by matealotblue on Jul 9, 2016 22:11:06 GMT
Expect Salisbury will want to play the match again and start a legal challenge because they are not happy with the result.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 22:15:26 GMT
Expect Salisbury will want to play the match again and start a legal challenge because they are not happy with the result. Can you imagine, all those younger supporters have to live with this result long after old Salisbury supporters are pushing up daisies. It's just not fair. |
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