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Post by Geelong Gas on Jun 24, 2015 1:02:02 GMT
Going with 4-0 to Australia with an inevitable washout at some point to restore a bit of "pride". Can't seen anything else than a resounding victory for them, much as it pains me to admit it.
Still the time zone difference means that I can watch most of the games in the evening when I get home from work.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 10:20:13 GMT
Too close to call. England aren't as bad as the "hype", Australia aren't as good as the hype, the conditions should be in our favour and Aus are over reliant on two or three players who have struggled over here previously.
I'm hoping this fantastic summer of entertaining cricket continues, and a drawn series wouldn't surprise me.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 24, 2015 16:39:35 GMT
Too close to call. England aren't as bad as the "hype", Australia aren't as good as the hype, the conditions should be in our favour and Aus are over reliant on two or three players who have struggled over here previously. I'm hoping this fantastic summer of entertaining cricket continues, and a drawn series wouldn't surprise me. I'm torn. A bit of me thinks this and a bit of me also thinks we're going to get thrashed. There are reverse comparisons with a few years ago when England fans assumed we were going to walk the back to back series because Australia weren't much cop as they didn't have Mcgrath, Warne etc any more. This ignored the fact that you don't need to have all time greats in your side in order to still be a very good team. Anyone who had followed the fortunes of that Aussie team knew they were a lot better than that and were improving all the time. OK, no one predicted that Mitchell Johnson was going to suddenly put it all together but nevertheless that was a much better team than a lot in England gave them credit for at the time and the danger signs were there in the home series win which really flattered us. We were very lucky at Old Trafford where we were saved by rain - if that hadn't happened we could easily have lost that series too. Yet I remember loads of people talking confidently about how we were going to go Down Under and wallop them again. This time it's the other way round and the narrative seems to be that Australia are a total powerhouse and England are in relative disarray. Well I'm not sure I agree with the first half of that equation but I do have some sympathy with the second. Australia are good but they are not invincible even the Windies were able to expose a certain soft underbelly at times in the recent series. There are still definitely some issues with their batting and all those 'bangers' they have always risks coming unstuck against a moving ball in England. Rogers is quite a key player for them from that point of view I think and his preparation has not been great. Like you said the jury is still out on some of Aussie players ability to perform in English conditions. So I agree that with that. I also think we will prepare pitches that will try to negate their big advantage in the spin department (unlike last time when we prepared a ton of turning tracks for Swann). This Aussie side is more like late 80s/early 90s Australia, who were a good side but one that benefited massively in Ashes series from English cricket being in total meltdown across the board at the time. So the key question is what shape are England actually in. On that I'm less confident. Bowling wise we're heavily dependent on Broad and Anderson. We have no obvious spin threat and our back up seam attack is inexperienced, unsettled and really quite expensive. An injury to Broad or Anderson and I think we'd be in deep trouble but there's every reason to think that in our conditions they should be the best 2 bowlers in the series. Jimmy's the key I think; this is the defining series for him. Either it's going to be the crowning moment of his fantastic career or the point at which you start to see a sharp decline. The batting needs to be better than it was against New Zealand. I think the truth is we don't actually know how good a Test batting lineup this is. Since the last Ashes we've played Sri Lanka, India, Windies and New Zealand. In my opinion only NZ had a bowling lineup that was genuinely Test quality and we looked dodgy. On the other hand early season English conditions normally make everyone look dodgy against quality swing bowling which is what NZ had. Our batsmen absolutely pulverised India last summer but it was a very poor Indian bowling lineup most of whom won't be playing international cricket in a years time. So I think the jury is very much out. My head says Aussies will win 2/3-1 though and I'm not sure it'll be a great series; Ashes cricket has generally produced pretty poor quality series for a while now.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Jun 25, 2015 12:59:47 GMT
If this was in Australia I think they'd win comfortably but home advantage counts for a lot in Test Cricket at the moment.
I'm a bit more optimistic regarding our quicks than I was. There are signs of improvement from Finn and I think Wood could make an impact this summer. I also like what I've seen of Footit and I think his selection for the pre-tour is a good pick. I'm a bit more hopeful that when Jimmy calls it a day one of the clutch of seamers who have threatened to make a breakthrough will step up to the mark and lead the attack. Short term though we are reliant on Anderson. If he gets an injury or loses form we're buggered. I think Australia will target him.
The spinner is a real issue. I think pitches are still likely to be dry and relatively lifeless as this has been the trend in England for some time. Lyon is under rated and we have a lot of left handers. Moeen is not in great form and they have a lot of right handers. The decision not to blood Rashid in the West Indies looks even more deplorable with that in mind, but having not picked him I'm not sure I'd want to blood him against the Aussies. No middle ground I reckon if they do pick him. It will either make or break his career. No pressure then!
They are well stocked with good bowlers but they have question marks hanging over them too. Can Harris stay fit, can Johnson actually perform in England, can Starc bowl as effectively with the red ball as he has with the white one and is Hazzlewood the real deal or did the Windies make him look good?
Our batting unit is difficult to call. I think you have to look at how they make runs rather than how many they've made to date. Lyth looked fairly comfortable even when he didn't make stacks of runs in the first test which is a good sign. Ballance on the other hand plays very deep from the crease. Cook is also fallible to this but he manages this when he's in form because he leaves the ball so well. I'm sure Bell will be fine despite his blip against New Zealand and Root seems to be moving his feet better than he did when he first came into the side. The rest will be up and down I expect. Not consistent but we have enough depth to ensure our lower order contributes something most of the time.
Their batting unit is ageing. Do the likes of Rogers, Voges, Clarke and Haddin have a good series or two left or are they on the way down?
Anyway, predictions. England will win the first test. Series will end 2-2. We're too inconsistent to win but we are on the up and I think we'll compete. However, you should probably discount anything Irish and I predict as I think he tipped Notts (bottom of Div 1) to win the Championship first division title and I tipped Kent to win Div 2 (also bottom)!
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 25, 2015 16:29:30 GMT
If this was in Australia I think they'd win comfortably but home advantage counts for a lot in Test Cricket at the moment. I'm a bit more optimistic regarding our quicks than I was. There are signs of improvement from Finn and I think Wood could make an impact this summer. I also like what I've seen of Footit and I think his selection for the pre-tour is a good pick. I'm a bit more hopeful that when Jimmy calls it a day one of the clutch of seamers who have threatened to make a breakthrough will step up to the mark and lead the attack. Short term though we are reliant on Anderson. If he gets an injury or loses form we're buggered. I think Australia will target him. The spinner is a real issue. I think pitches are still likely to be dry and relatively lifeless as this has been the trend in England for some time. Lyon is under rated and we have a lot of left handers. Moeen is not in great form and they have a lot of right handers. The decision not to blood Rashid in the West Indies looks even more deplorable with that in mind, but having not picked him I'm not sure I'd want to blood him against the Aussies. No middle ground I reckon if they do pick him. It will either make or break his career. No pressure then! They are well stocked with good bowlers but they have question marks hanging over them too. Can Harris stay fit, can Johnson actually perform in England, can Starc bowl as effectively with the red ball as he has with the white one and is Hazzlewood the real deal or did the Windies make him look good? Our batting unit is difficult to call. I think you have to look at how they make runs rather than how many they've made to date. Lyth looked fairly comfortable even when he didn't make stacks of runs in the first test which is a good sign. Ballance on the other hand plays very deep from the crease. Cook is also fallible to this but he manages this when he's in form because he leaves the ball so well. I'm sure Bell will be fine despite his blip against New Zealand and Root seems to be moving his feet better than he did when he first came into the side. The rest will be up and down I expect. Not consistent but we have enough depth to ensure our lower order contributes something most of the time. Their batting unit is ageing. Do the likes of Rogers, Voges, Clarke and Haddin have a good series or two left or are they on the way down? Anyway, predictions. England will win the first test. Series will end 2-2. We're too inconsistent to win but we are on the up and I think we'll compete. However, you should probably discount anything Irish and I predict as I think he tipped Notts (bottom of Div 1) to win the Championship first division title and I tipped Kent to win Div 2 (also bottom)! Oh crap, forgot about that! To be honest my record of predicting cricket has been utterly dire for a long time. It's particularly hard to predict England though because we're so stuck in this bubble in terms of cricket coverage in this country where everything revolves around detailed assessment of every aspect of every English player. I think it means their strengths and their weaknesses tend to be over exaggerated particularly in terms of comparisons with the opposition. Now I might be fully aware of that but still get suckered by the narratives around a particular players and parts of the side. For example, Ballance. I entirely agree with you that what matters is how (and to some extent when) players score their runs. Against Windies and NZ Ballance looked like a player who had been found out. What you are looking for is if there are patterns of dismissal beyond a player simply getting a good one first up which can happen to anyone (and for which Lyth seemed a bit unlucky in the NZ series). Ballance was consistently getting out to the very full late swinging ball and it was clear that the word had gone out that if you deprive him of the short stuff keep him under pressure at some point he will just get horribly tangled up on the crease to one that does a little bit more than expected (India on the other hand took the standard strategy against a Test newbie and tried to bounce him out and he feasted). That is definitely worrying in a number 3 and I agree with you that warning lights should be flashing. On the other hand though maybe it was just a bad run and a temporary flaw which he can correct. It looked pretty bad but it's hard to really know for sure when you haven't seen that much of a player. If Alistair Cook had entered his lean run say 18 months into his Test Career instead of 5 years would people have written him off? It's an inexact science and there's a lot of luck involved when it comes to timing I think. Just think how Ballance's career would be analysed if he was in the opposition and less under the microscope. They'd probably be saying this is a young guy who had a great start and has just hit a bit of a bump in the road but talent will probably out etc. In England we're all already diagnosing the possibility of terminal career failure. Makes rational assessment quite difficult. The problem with the backup seamers is that they are all still in the 'potential' category whereas nearly all Aussies are in the 'proven' category. It wouldn't be shocking if Wood or Finn delivered the goods, it might be a bit more surprising (and very interesting) if Footit played a strong part but we don't really know. Aussie question marks are largely about fitness and transforming performances to new conditions, our ones are still whether our guys are up to it full stop. I'd definitely rather have their question marks than ours. Lyon is a real threat - I honestly if spin is a big factor in this series then we're be in a lot of trouble. I mean NZ's spinner (name temporarily escapes) did far more damage on far more unhelpful wickets than Lyon's going to get. That's pretty worrying because he's in a different league; possibly the number 1 spinner in the world at the moment actually (admittedly from a very average bunch but still). Moeen's confidence looks shot to me with bat and ball. I think they were hoping Rashid would do enough in the ODI's to demand selection but he didn't really as the dice were so loaded in the batsmen's favour he never really had a chance of standing out. Clearly they should have given him a chance in the Windies, I cannot for the life of me understand why we were selecting Tredwell. Their batting, I agree, is not as strong as it is being portrayed. They have a lot of guys who will devastate poor bowling and take a game away from you very quickly. I'm not quite so convinced that they have the gritty technical players that you need to do well in English conditions. Everyone used to bang on about Hayden and Gilchrist but the core of that great Aussie lineup was really a set of rock solid Test batsman who had the technique and temperament to play massively long innings. It's interesting they went to Voges, who has good experience in England, because it suggests that they're worried about that as well. So a lot will come down to the sort of cricket that is played. One reason I don't think this will be a great series is that I feel England will aim for attritional cricket. The aim will be for flat decks that don't deteriorate too much roll out 4 seamers to bowl defensive lines after Anderson and Broad's initial burst and try to test Aussie patience while hoping their bowlers are not up to the work rate and become frustrated with unresponsive tracks. That's the only way I can see England really winning this series and that will ultimately come down to which opening bowlers do the most damage which is where we may have a tiny edge.
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Post by lostinspace on Jul 1, 2015 20:52:28 GMT
what always sort of gets me,is the way our county teams play not so established players in these pre test warm up in England,,, tending to give the Aussies plenty of easy batting and some good bowling trials to their "fringe" players, whereas when England tour down under ,it seems as thou the teams there load the side with guys who are ready to die to knock over the tourists, giving then a not so easy "ride in" to the test series....have we got this wrong? to me it certainly seems that way
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 2, 2015 10:15:37 GMT
what always sort of gets me,is the way our county teams play not so established players in these pre test warm up in England,,, tending to give the Aussies plenty of easy batting and some good bowling trials to their "fringe" players, whereas when England tour down under ,it seems as thou the teams there load the side with guys who are ready to die to knock over the tourists, giving then a not so easy "ride in" to the test series....have we got this wrong? to me it certainly seems that way The other way of looking at it is that we don't give the opposition a very tough workout and therefore they'll be undercooked when they play against our top players. I think in the past touring teams have complained that they get poor preparation because counties largely put out their 2nd XI's in these games. I'm pretty sure the Aussies would far rather be properly tested. It's just the reality of county cricket though - back in the day when the touring side used to go round all the counties they used to have a sponsor for that series of games and it could be quite lucrative for a county to beat/put up a good performance against them. These days the games are far less prestigious and there's no money in it so no county is going to want to risk injuring its frontline opening bowlers in a glorified friendly. It is different down under because of the way their players are paid, the fact they have much fewer professionals on the books of their state sides and they play a great deal less cricket overall.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 3, 2015 13:31:52 GMT
www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/03/the-joy-of-six-ashes-quotesSome stuff to get people in the mood ahead of next week. OK - there's some pretty standard Headingley 81 blurb but that footage of Lillee and Thompson is new to me (different from the Greig Toe Crushers that usually get linked to this sort of thing). Interesting because it shows how the game has changed in a number of ways; good and maybe not so good. Watching high quality top order batsmen genuinely scared and trying with all their might to battle their natural instincts to back away is something that you don't really see anymore. I'm not going to stand here in the wake of the Phil Hughes incident and say the game is worse for helmets but there's no doubt that a gladatorial aspect of the game was lost. Just look at the classic Richards v Lillee battles or Gavaskar vs Windies quicks and that is definitely a raw excitement and thrill that has gone forever and critically loads the dice in the batsman's favour. A necessary trade off but still. The other thing that strikes me from that footage is the number of times the Aussie slip cordon just flat out bottle it as the ball flies through. No way would that be tolerated now. Sometimes people see the past through the prism of the great players so when fielding is bought up they reference Randall or Botham as a slip fielder etc. But (Randall excepted, I think he was something special) they were the exceptions that proved the rule. The quality of fielding has clearly improved massively over the years. Also, how unbelievable is it that Boycott didn't play in the 74/75 series; the greatest opening batsmen England produced in the postwar era and he wasn't playing in a series where he was most needed because of a falling out. Shows that nothing really ever changes!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 11:45:46 GMT
Not the start we were looking for, 61/3 half an hour before lunch.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 8, 2015 12:07:50 GMT
Not the start we were looking for, 61/3 half an hour before lunch. Decent recovery from England there though. Interesting how fast they scored once the shine had gone off the ball. Definitely Australia's morning but I think England will be quite pleased with the way they responded from 42-3. Big session coming up now if Root and Ballance continue like this then they could turn the tables if they go cheaply England could still struggle to put up a score here. Ideal position would be for them to get to 150+ and then let Stokes, Buttler etc at a tired Aussie attack for 15-20 Overs before the 2nd new balls. It is interesting that Lyon got so much purchase though - a bit ominous for England.
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Post by nickchippenhamgas on Jul 8, 2015 13:42:59 GMT
England will continue to struggle in the 5 day game while Alistair Cook is captain, he must be instrumental in picking Ian Bell, who will struggle to get a 100 runs in the series, should he be picked for the whole series, which he shouldn't, this england side looks decidedly lightweight and if Cook struggles in the first couple we should drop him and bring in Morgan as captain he showed what a positive approach to cricket can bring to a side low on confidence, my prediction England to go 2-0 down after two, Cook and Bell dropped, players picked in form under Morgan and we only lose 2-1
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 14:30:30 GMT
England will continue to struggle in the 5 day game while Alistair Cook is captain, he must be instrumental in picking Ian Bell, who will struggle to get a 100 runs in the series, should he be picked for the whole series, which he shouldn't, this england side looks decidedly lightweight and if Cook struggles in the first couple we should drop him and bring in Morgan as captain he showed what a positive approach to cricket can bring to a side low on confidence, my prediction England to go 2-0 down after two, Cook and Bell dropped, players picked in form under Morgan and we only lose 2-1 Utter rubbish Why on earth should Cook be dropped? Bell will have at least one important contribution in the series, but I think we're seeing the end of him soon unfortunately. England have made a good recovery here and things are about even now I reckon. England perhaps edging ahead.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 8, 2015 14:54:41 GMT
England will continue to struggle in the 5 day game while Alistair Cook is captain, he must be instrumental in picking Ian Bell, who will struggle to get a 100 runs in the series, should he be picked for the whole series, which he shouldn't, this england side looks decidedly lightweight and if Cook struggles in the first couple we should drop him and bring in Morgan as captain he showed what a positive approach to cricket can bring to a side low on confidence, my prediction England to go 2-0 down after two, Cook and Bell dropped, players picked in form under Morgan and we only lose 2-1 Cook is one of the best opening batsmen this country has ever produced, our all time leading run scorer and he has made more centuries than any other England player. On anyone's reckoning Cook has had a stunningly successful career and will go down as one of the best players of his era. Whereas Morgan's technique proved to be woefully inadequate in the Test Match game when bowlers bang it in short at will, test your technique and patience outside outside off stump and pack the slip cordon. Morgan comprehensively failed all of these tests. He would be a walking wicket for Johnson, Starc etc and his performances in the longer form of the game have been so poor in recent years that he has been intermittently dropped by his county side. He has more or less acknowledged that he is a one day/T20 specialist. There is absolutely no chance of Morgan ever being England Test captain and that is entirely a good thing. Cook's captaincy is average but the influence of captain's as a whole is massively overrated - I can remember when people said similar things about Adam Hollioake's transformational skills as captain (post Sharjah Tournament win) that they are now saying about Morgan. Adam who? Exactly. The ODI's were a promising start but it had as much to do with us picking young players who were suited to the format and had something prove against a New Zealand team that were missing some key bowlers and looked a bit jaded as any mythical change of 'brand'. I see Morgan as a placeholder captain, I very much doubt he will lead England into the next World Cup and if he is such an inspirational captain what on earth went wrong at this World Cup?! The next Captain of the England Test side will be Joe Root and that could happen if we lose this series but it will not come at the expense of Alistair Cook being dropped- I fully expect Cook to be opening the batting for England for another 5 years. The guy deserves to be treated as one of England's all time greats because he is - some of the press hounding of him has been ridiculous. Ian Bell is a frustrating but high class batsmen who is going through a horrible run of form. But I think it's very unlikely England will drop one of their most consistent and experienced performers over the last decade especially as there is not really very much lining up to replace him. This is a magnificent fightback from England here but I fear that the wicket was dead on arrival and this may well be a very boring match which is exactly what I think England want it to be. They want to frustrate and exhaust the Aussie tyro bowlers over a condensed series. I felt Lyth and Cook's dismissals were more nervy than anything else - poor shot selection, trying to be too aggressive. Bell looked wobbly but ultimately got a good one that most batsman would have struggled with early in their innings. Once they got themselves in these 2 have looked mostly untroubled. England are now on top - Australia need a big session. Normally the Ashes pendulum would suggest they'd get it but it's hard to see where the switch in momentum is coming from before the new ball by which time it might be too late to turn the tables in this innings.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Jul 8, 2015 17:02:29 GMT
Shame Root and Stokes both got out in the 70th-80th over but good to see us remaining positive. The new ball could clean us up so I think Moeen, Buttler and co should stay positive.
Our top order actual matched Australia last time. It was 7-11 where we lost it. The top order batted too slowly at the start and we'd be 260 odd for 5 after 80 overs then the new ball would see us off where as Haddin and the bowlers scored a lot of runs.
Even if the new ball does for us today at least we've got something to bowl at tomorrow.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Jul 8, 2015 17:16:55 GMT
Can definitely hear Irene being sung at the cricket too!
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 8, 2015 17:18:29 GMT
Shame Root and Stokes both got out in the 70th-80th over but good to see us remaining positive. The new ball could clean us up so I think Moeen, Buttler and co should stay positive. Our top order actual matched Australia last time. It was 7-11 where we lost it. The top order batted too slowly at the start and we'd be 260 odd for 5 after 80 overs then the new ball would see us off where as Haddin and the bowlers scored a lot of runs. Even if the new ball does for us today at least we've got something to bowl at tomorrow. Yes - I agree with that. Interesting little 10 Over session here - should define whether England win the day or if it's fairly even stephen. If Moeen and Buttler are still there at the close England will be delighted. In some ways this is exactly the situation these guys to be there in with the exception of the new ball. See that off and you'd back us to get 400+. I agree they should stay positive. I think is either going to be 400+ or all out pretty quickly. If you'd offered this score to Cook at 42-3 he'd have bitten your hand off but we need 400 to really put them under some pressure. I do love watching Moeen - I know he's flawed but he's great to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 17:51:32 GMT
Decent days cricket, but Buttler was a bit daft at the end. 50+ quick runs in the morning would be nice.
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Post by Bernard Briggs on Jul 9, 2015 6:59:42 GMT
Can definitely hear Irene being sung at the cricket too! Dozen or so fans, just in front of me. Was a brilliant atmosphere all day. Plenty of Glos/Somerset chants too. And the stick they gave Mitchell Johnson...
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 9, 2015 8:54:24 GMT
Can definitely hear Irene being sung at the cricket too! Dozen or so fans, just in front of me. Was a brilliant atmosphere all day. Plenty of Glos/Somerset chants too. And the stick they gave Mitchell Johnson... Mr Jinx.......you didn't stay away? We're doomed I tell ya, doomed ! PS - Was that you sat in the crowd wearing the Borat mankini?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 9, 2015 9:32:26 GMT
Decent days cricket, but Buttler was a bit daft at the end. 50+ quick runs in the morning would be nice. Yep, that dismissal was just enough to make it not quite England's day completely. It's a shame we're not starting with Buttler and Ali at the crease this morning. I'm still confident we can get to 400 though, although that's not quite the 'can't lose from here' kind of 1st innings score that it used to be
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