irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Apr 15, 2015 20:45:38 GMT
Not much "talent" out wide. That's what I thought. You wouldn't want Lambert and Walker up front and nobody crossing the ball. Ryan Green for Smith, Lines for Sinclair, Carayol for Hoskins and a change of shape required. Surely Smith offered more down the right than Green ever did? I actually don't think you do need much width in that team. Lambert didn't/doesn't need width to be successful and Walker wasn't exactly a classic in the box target man either. I want all the effort to go into the getting those guys on the ball about 25 yards from goal with Disley and Sinclair running onto it and Smith streaking outside. Then you just stand back and watch the chaos.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 20:52:12 GMT
That's what I thought. You wouldn't want Lambert and Walker up front and nobody crossing the ball. Ryan Green for Smith, Lines for Sinclair, Carayol for Hoskins and a change of shape required. Surely Smith offered more down the right than Green ever did? I actually don't think you do need much width in that team. Lambert didn't/doesn't need width to be successful and Walker wasn't exactly a classic in the box target man either. I want all the effort to go into the getting those guys on the ball about 25 yards from goal with Disley and Sinclair running onto it and Smith streaking outside. Then you just stand back and watch the chaos. Can't remember any actual Smith assists. I can remember two from Green. I see your streaking Smith and raise you a 30 yard Carayol screamer.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Apr 15, 2015 21:05:38 GMT
Surely Smith offered more down the right than Green ever did? I actually don't think you do need much width in that team. Lambert didn't/doesn't need width to be successful and Walker wasn't exactly a classic in the box target man either. I want all the effort to go into the getting those guys on the ball about 25 yards from goal with Disley and Sinclair running onto it and Smith streaking outside. Then you just stand back and watch the chaos. Can't remember any actual Smith assists. I can remember two from Green. I see your streaking Smith and raise you a 30 yard Carayol screamer. True but there would probably be a 75% chance that Carayol would be injured! Truth is though we haven't really had that many top wide players in the last few years I think I'd be quite comfortable finding a way of playing without them. Not really that bothered about assists. I don't need anyone else to create anything with Lambert in that team. Just about pulling the field apart and creating space for him to operate in. Smith is good at that. I'd probably have Jeff Hughes instead of Sinclair too, but I doubt that one would be popular.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 21:12:39 GMT
I considered Hughes but went for Lines.
Players don't get injured in imaginary football.
We tried having no creative players except Lambert before and we stalled half way up League One. Where's your ambition man?
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Apr 15, 2015 21:19:25 GMT
No-one ever seems to look at the team as having to defend.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 16, 2015 8:14:11 GMT
If you're using a term like 'proven', then you have to set an empirical, quantitative standard. Otherwise you are just saying yeah, I reckon he is good enough for the league. That's all I's saying.
Maybe my criteria isn't perfect. What is yours?
A few more examples here. Peter Shilton and Mark Wright played for a Derby side that got relegated from the top flight were they not top flight standard? They both also got to a World Cup Semi Final with England, were they not proven? Joe Cole, Paulo Di Canio, Freddie Kanoute, Trevor Sinclair, Jermain Defoe and Michael Carrick were all part of a team that got relegated from The Premier League, I guess that meant that all of them were not Premier League standard too? Or not proven? Just because a club gets relegated it doesn't mean that all the players within it are suddenly deemed not "standard" enough. Or proven. Mildenhall has made a couple of mistakes and been dropped, that happens. That must mean that every goalkeeper that has ever been dropped is deemed past it then? I really dont know what you are getting at?
At the end of the 2003 season, which is what you are getting at - Joe Cole was 22, Di Canio was 35, Freddie Kanoute was never proven in my eyes, borderline at best, **Trevor Sinclair was 30, Defoe was 21, Carrick was 22. I've already explained that it doesn't count if at the beginning or end of the player's career. The only one that causes be a problem in that list is Trevor Sinclair.
I'm not sure that the criteria for proven premier league player is the same as for proven football league player anyway - its a lot easier to be relegated out of the Premier League than it is the Football League, as 3 teams out of 20 go down rather than 2 out of 70-odd. More likelihood of outliers.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 16, 2015 8:25:47 GMT
I've never though about it definitively. Its like knowing when a goal is a 'good' goal or not. I'll have a think and get back to you. I still think you're relegation criteria is wrong, though. I don't think its like saying whether a goal is good or not - its like saying if a goal is proven to be good goal or not. If you're saying that, then I would ask, where's your proof? You have to be objective.
Right, I reckon my criteria for starters are (note this is football league, not premier league)
- Bumping along in the bottom half of League 2 does not make a proven football league player. Therefore has to have played in the football league, above mid table league 2, for almost all their peak years - maybe 1 season exception only. Played, say, 90% of games in those seasons, not just a squad player. - Has to have had some kind of success - a promotion, or played in tier 2 of the pyramid (Championship) - No relegation out of the league unless very early or late in their career, or if they have, they were immediately snapped up by a league club. - there may be outliers - but they had better have a bloody good case
I welcome peer review of my hypothesis.
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