faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 15, 2015 8:18:33 GMT
It's so hard to rate the current squad due to the opposition. The time we get on the ball is immense, the threat often almost non existent. With the right attitude, a massive ask I know, but almost any of the players at the club ten years ago, in a relatively organised side, would win this league by twenty points. If we win the last two games, we will have secured 37 points from 15 games. That form over a season equates to over 111 points.. The players selected have done well but the standard is dreadful......lets get out and consign it to history before we think it's in any way acceptable or this squad compares with the past. Let them prove themselves next season, in the football league. Your last sentence, precisely. Only one player in our current squad has really proved himself in the Football League, and that's Chris Lines. At the moment, for me he's the only player that would get in that hypothetical 10 year squad.
Not sure about the first part of your paragraph though - I can think of a few previous Rovers squads that would be top half of the conference at best:
2013/14 2012/13 2004/05
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Apr 15, 2015 8:22:20 GMT
Andrew Monkhouse, 526 games. Never really proved himself.
I'll not mention Easter, Mildenhall, Mansell......
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 15, 2015 9:25:09 GMT
Andrew Monkhouse, 526 games. Never really proved himself.
I'll not mention Easter, Mildenhall, Mansell...... Fair enough, I'll give you Monkhouse and Easter. Harsh I know, but Mildenhall and Mansell have both been part of a side to be relegated out of the league, so not proven to be league standard.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 9:31:43 GMT
Andrew Monkhouse, 526 games. Never really proved himself.
I'll not mention Easter, Mildenhall, Mansell...... Fair enough, I'll give you Monkhouse and Easter. Harsh I know, but Mildenhall and Mansell have both been part of a side to be relegated out of the league, so not proven to be league standard. That's not harsh, its nonsense.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 15, 2015 10:58:43 GMT
Fair enough, I'll give you Monkhouse and Easter. Harsh I know, but Mildenhall and Mansell have both been part of a side to be relegated out of the league, so not proven to be league standard. That's not harsh, its nonsense. Why? Bear in mind I'm not saying that they definitely are not League standard, but I am saying that they cannot be proven to be League standard. They were part of a team thrown out of the League for not being of the required standard to stay in the League, this is an unbiased fact. Mildenhall cannot even keep his place at a Conference club.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 11:08:18 GMT
Denis Irwin wasn't proven to Premier League standard because he got relegated with Wolves, despite winning it seven times, I suppose?
Roy Keane also has a Premier League relegation on his CV. Not proven to be Premier League standard?
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 15, 2015 11:14:27 GMT
That's not harsh, its nonsense. Why? Bear in mind I'm not saying that they definitely are not League standard, but I am saying that they cannot be proven to be League standard. They were part of a team thrown out of the League for not being of the required standard to stay in the League, this is an unbiased fact. Mildenhall cannot even keep his place at a Conference club.
Steve Mildenhall has played over 200 games at League One level. Surely that's proof enough. Yes, they were part of a team that was relegated, but I dont think you can label to much blame to the Defence or Goalkeeper, both of those were up to league standard last season(and have proven to be comfortably the best defence this year) it was at the other end of the pitch that CERTAINLY was not league standard and why we find ourselves here. So by your logic, George Best was never league standard because he ended up playing for Tobermore United in the Northern Irish 2nd Division, or likewise Paul Gascgoine was never league standard because he ended up playing for Boston?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 15, 2015 12:58:55 GMT
Denis Irwin wasn't proven to Premier League standard because he got relegated with Wolves, despite winning it seven times, I suppose? Roy Keane also has a Premier League relegation on his CV. Not proven to be Premier League standard? They were either very young or very old when that happened. If a player gets chucked out of the league during their peak years for not being good enough, then you can't say they are a proven league player - borderline at best.
And yes, at the time he was relegated with Forest, Keane was not a proven Premier League player.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 15, 2015 13:01:25 GMT
Why? Bear in mind I'm not saying that they definitely are not League standard, but I am saying that they cannot be proven to be League standard. They were part of a team thrown out of the League for not being of the required standard to stay in the League, this is an unbiased fact. Mildenhall cannot even keep his place at a Conference club.
Steve Mildenhall has played over 200 games at League One level. Surely that's proof enough. Yes, they were part of a team that was relegated, but I dont think you can label to much blame to the Defence or Goalkeeper, both of those were up to league standard last season(and have proven to be comfortably the best defence this year) it was at the other end of the pitch that CERTAINLY was not league standard and why we find ourselves here. So by your logic, George Best was never league standard because he ended up playing for Tobermore United in the Northern Irish 2nd Division, or likewise Paul Gascgoine was never league standard because he ended up playing for Boston? No, playing for non league clubs when you are old can't count.
Mildenhall has to have a big question mark over his standard based on the last couple of years, at an age where a goalkeeper is at his peak. Remember we are not talking 'is likely to be a league player', or 'might be a league player', we are talking a 'proven' league player.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 14:19:15 GMT
Give it up Faggoty. Its hardly Mildenhall's fault we didn't score enough goals!
Tim Flowers got relegated from the Prem at 32. Not proven, I suppose?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Apr 15, 2015 14:52:29 GMT
Give it up Faggoty. Its hardly Mildenhall's fault we didn't score enough goals! Tim Flowers got relegated from the Prem at 32. Not proven, I suppose?
If you're using a term like 'proven', then you have to set an empirical, quantitative standard. Otherwise you are just saying yeah, I reckon he is good enough for the league. That's all I's saying.
Maybe my criteria isn't perfect. What is yours?
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Post by Gastafari on Apr 15, 2015 15:19:52 GMT
Give it up Faggoty. Its hardly Mildenhall's fault we didn't score enough goals! Tim Flowers got relegated from the Prem at 32. Not proven, I suppose?
If you're using a term like 'proven', then you have to set an empirical, quantitative standard. Otherwise you are just saying yeah, I reckon he is good enough for the league. That's all I's saying.
Maybe my criteria isn't perfect. What is yours?
A few more examples here. Peter Shilton and Mark Wright played for a Derby side that got relegated from the top flight were they not top flight standard? They both also got to a World Cup Semi Final with England, were they not proven? Joe Cole, Paulo Di Canio, Freddie Kanoute, Trevor Sinclair, Jermain Defoe and Michael Carrick were all part of a team that got relegated from The Premier League, I guess that meant that all of them were not Premier League standard too? Or not proven? Just because a club gets relegated it doesn't mean that all the players within it are suddenly deemed not "standard" enough. Or proven. Mildenhall has made a couple of mistakes and been dropped, that happens. That must mean that every goalkeeper that has ever been dropped is deemed past it then? I really dont know what you are getting at?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 15:22:54 GMT
I've never though about it definitively. Its like knowing when a goal is a 'good' goal or not.
I'll have a think and get back to you. I still think you're relegation criteria is wrong, though.
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Apr 15, 2015 15:30:42 GMT
Every goal is a good goal surely?
It's just that some are better than others.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
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Post by irishrover on Apr 15, 2015 16:33:59 GMT
If you're talking about a first XI - maybe Brown at left back from the current lot. And Stu for his bloody tirelessness. 4-3-3 Phillips Smith Hinton Elliott Brown Sinclair Campbell Disley Walker (R) Lambert Hoskins I like this team.
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
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Post by dido on Apr 15, 2015 17:10:26 GMT
Not much "talent" out wide.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 17:14:30 GMT
Not much "talent" out wide. That's what I thought. You wouldn't want Lambert and Walker up front and nobody crossing the ball. Ryan Green for Smith, Lines for Sinclair, Carayol for Hoskins and a change of shape required.
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dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 872
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Post by dagnogo on Apr 15, 2015 18:01:27 GMT
Carayol? Perhaps. But you need two good wide men. Igoe aside I can't think of many.
Smith is twice the player Ryan Green is, and as for Lines - I'll not open that debate up again.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 18:05:03 GMT
Carayol? Perhaps. But you need two good wide men. Igoe aside I can't think of many. Smith is twice the player Ryan Green is, and as for Lines - I'll not open that debate up again. You don't need two wide men. You need an out and out winger who can play on either side, and a player who can fill in for a maurading full back. Green was a much better crosser than Smith, so with two outstanding finishers to aim for he gets my vote. I meant to put Anthony in for Hinton too.
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Post by ismellgas on Apr 15, 2015 18:18:36 GMT
What about Pritchard dropping big bombs in the box,the ball used to come down with snow on it
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