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Post by baldrick on Oct 9, 2024 20:01:00 GMT
Starmer tells another Lie. He says the Falklands are very personal to him because his Uncle nearly died when the ship he was serving on was torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk. No British ship during the conflict was sunk by a torpedo. Infact the only ship which sunk when hit by a torpedo was the Belgrano. Starmers Uncle was serving on HMS Antelope which was bombed by low flying aircraft. The bombs failed to detonate. Later in the evening experts tried to defuse one of the bombs but it exploded instantly killing one member of the bomb disposal team. He still nearly died though, unless you think that's a lie too.
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Post by matealotblue on Oct 9, 2024 20:07:09 GMT
Starmer tells another Lie. He says the Falklands are very personal to him because his Uncle nearly died when the ship he was serving on was torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk. No British ship during the conflict was sunk by a torpedo. Infact the only ship which sunk when hit by a torpedo was the Belgrano. Starmers Uncle was serving on HMS Antelope which was bombed by low flying aircraft. The bombs failed to detonate. Later in the evening experts tried to defuse one of the bombs but it exploded instantly killing one member of the bomb disposal team. One person killed (Staff Sgt) and another severely injured (W.O) The wreck is designated as a prohibited area under the Falklands Islands Protection of Wrecks Act.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,386
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Post by trymer on Oct 10, 2024 8:16:50 GMT
The usual suspects on here seem to be talking about Reform more than the tories,i suspect that they see Reform as a bigger threat to labour than the tories are,with labour becoming more unpopular every day the lefties are getting worried.
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 10, 2024 8:26:28 GMT
Starmer tells another Lie. He says the Falklands are very personal to him because his Uncle nearly died when the ship he was serving on was torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk. No British ship during the conflict was sunk by a torpedo. Infact the only ship which sunk when hit by a torpedo was the Belgrano. Starmers Uncle was serving on HMS Antelope which was bombed by low flying aircraft. The bombs failed to detonate. Later in the evening experts tried to defuse one of the bombs but it exploded instantly killing one member of the bomb disposal team. "torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk" - I must admit I nearly spat my tea out when I heard that. I would imagine there were ten's of thousands of veterans who also felt the same. It's one thing to claim personal experience and attempt to use the experiences of relatives to add strength to your argument, but for gawd's sake at least get the details right. It's this attention to detail that is important. If Starmer cannot even get that right about his Uncle, just what can he get right? We've all seen his videos (when in opposition) where he is stressed out about the elderly freezing in the winter due to the high cost of energy. And then we see his actions upon getting elected. It all adds up, bit by bit, of a character who will say anything, and use anyone, in their attempts to gain and hold onto power.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,386
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Post by trymer on Oct 10, 2024 9:40:09 GMT
Starmer tells another Lie. He says the Falklands are very personal to him because his Uncle nearly died when the ship he was serving on was torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk. No British ship during the conflict was sunk by a torpedo. Infact the only ship which sunk when hit by a torpedo was the Belgrano. Starmers Uncle was serving on HMS Antelope which was bombed by low flying aircraft. The bombs failed to detonate. Later in the evening experts tried to defuse one of the bombs but it exploded instantly killing one member of the bomb disposal team. "torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk" - I must admit I nearly spat my tea out when I heard that. I would imagine there were ten's of thousands of veterans who also felt the same. It's one thing to claim personal experience and attempt to use the experiences of relatives to add strength to your argument, but for gawd's sake at least get the details right. It's this attention to detail that is important. If Starmer cannot even get that right about his Uncle, just what can he get right? We've all seen his videos (when in opposition) where he is stressed out about the elderly freezing in the winter due to the high cost of energy. And then we see his actions upon getting elected. It all adds up, bit by bit, of a character who will say anything, and use anyone, in their attempts to gain and hold onto power. Starmer has said countless times in speeches that 'my old dad was a toolmaker' giving the impression that his dear old dad worked at a lathe hands covered in oil and a pencil behind his ear, the truth seems to be that he was the manager of the factory or according to some thathe actually owned the factory, the more untruths he tells the less people will want to vote for him again.
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Post by matealotblue on Oct 10, 2024 9:59:28 GMT
Starmer tells another Lie. He says the Falklands are very personal to him because his Uncle nearly died when the ship he was serving on was torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk. No British ship during the conflict was sunk by a torpedo. Infact the only ship which sunk when hit by a torpedo was the Belgrano. Starmers Uncle was serving on HMS Antelope which was bombed by low flying aircraft. The bombs failed to detonate. Later in the evening experts tried to defuse one of the bombs but it exploded instantly killing one member of the bomb disposal team. "torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk" - I must admit I nearly spat my tea out when I heard that. I would imagine there were ten's of thousands of veterans who also felt the same. It's one thing to claim personal experience and attempt to use the experiences of relatives to add strength to your argument, but for gawd's sake at least get the details right. It's this attention to detail that is important. If Starmer cannot even get that right about his Uncle, just what can he get right? We've all seen his videos (when in opposition) where he is stressed out about the elderly freezing in the winter due to the high cost of energy. And then we see his actions upon getting elected. It all adds up, bit by bit, of a character who will say anything, and use anyone, in their attempts to gain and hold onto power. Maybe I should send him my Campaign Medal. He can claim it as his.......
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 10, 2024 10:08:22 GMT
"torpedoed by the Argentinian forces and sunk" - I must admit I nearly spat my tea out when I heard that. I would imagine there were ten's of thousands of veterans who also felt the same. It's one thing to claim personal experience and attempt to use the experiences of relatives to add strength to your argument, but for gawd's sake at least get the details right. It's this attention to detail that is important. If Starmer cannot even get that right about his Uncle, just what can he get right? We've all seen his videos (when in opposition) where he is stressed out about the elderly freezing in the winter due to the high cost of energy. And then we see his actions upon getting elected. It all adds up, bit by bit, of a character who will say anything, and use anyone, in their attempts to gain and hold onto power. Maybe I should send him my Campaign Medal. He can claim it as his....... Remember the old quote..."today a button, tomorrow a submarine hatch. Attention to detail"!
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Post by matealotblue on Oct 10, 2024 10:15:13 GMT
Maybe I should send him my Campaign Medal. He can claim it as his....... Remember the old quote..."today a button, tomorrow a submarine hatch. Attention to detail"! My own personal quote was "Never go to sea in a boat designed to sink!" Stay on top the waves....not under them . Even if you got paid more for doing so.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,857
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 10, 2024 10:19:41 GMT
The usual suspects on here seem to be talking about Reform more than the tories,i suspect that they see Reform as a bigger threat to labour than the tories are,with labour becoming more unpopular every day the lefties are getting worried. The Tories see Reform as the biggest threat if you believe reports from their conference about wanting to 'merge' with them. The swing to the far right with Jenrick and Badenoch as last people standing indicates that they want to take Tory policy down the Reform route.
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 10, 2024 10:34:56 GMT
The usual suspects on here seem to be talking about Reform more than the tories,i suspect that they see Reform as a bigger threat to labour than the tories are,with labour becoming more unpopular every day the lefties are getting worried. The Tories see Reform as the biggest threat if you believe reports from their conference about wanting to 'merge' with them. The swing to the far right with Jenrick and Badenoch as last people standing indicates that they want to take Tory policy down the Reform route. C'mon, neither Jenrick nor Badenoch are "far right", and neither are Reform for that matter. That sort of talk is pretty disingenuous don't you think. The Tories want to merge with Reform as they think that they will then take over everything that Reform have built and once again, hey presto, they are back in power and Reform have disappeared. What they fail to see is that very soon the Tories will be the junior partner in that relationship. I predict an coalition government after the next GE. It may consist of Tory/Reform, or it may be Labour/Green/SNP/Plaid/LibDems/Islamic Parties. I cannot see a Tory or Labour majority.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,857
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 10, 2024 10:43:54 GMT
The Tories see Reform as the biggest threat if you believe reports from their conference about wanting to 'merge' with them. The swing to the far right with Jenrick and Badenoch as last people standing indicates that they want to take Tory policy down the Reform route. C'mon, neither Jenrick nor Badenoch are "far right", and neither are Reform for that matter. That sort of talk is pretty disingenuous don't you think. The Tories want to merge with Reform as they think that they will then take over everything that Reform have built and once again, hey presto, they are back in power and Reform have disappeared. What they fail to see is that very soon the Tories will be the junior partner in that relationship. I predict an coalition government after the next GE. It may consist of Tory/Reform, or it may be Labour/Green/SNP/Plaid/LibDems/Islamic Parties. I cannot see a Tory or Labour majority. You think leaving the ECHR [to join Belarus and Russia], shouting sink the boats [Anderson] and let them drown [Habib] is not towards the right then Nobby? Jenrick and Badenoch [cut maternity pay, do away with minimum wage] are definitely playing to that crowd. I agree with you on the Tory junior status coming in any partnership and your last sentence though.
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 10, 2024 10:54:05 GMT
C'mon, neither Jenrick nor Badenoch are "far right", and neither are Reform for that matter. That sort of talk is pretty disingenuous don't you think. The Tories want to merge with Reform as they think that they will then take over everything that Reform have built and once again, hey presto, they are back in power and Reform have disappeared. What they fail to see is that very soon the Tories will be the junior partner in that relationship. I predict an coalition government after the next GE. It may consist of Tory/Reform, or it may be Labour/Green/SNP/Plaid/LibDems/Islamic Parties. I cannot see a Tory or Labour majority. You think leaving the ECHR [to join Belarus and Russia], shouting sink the boats [Anderson] and let them drown [Habib] is not towards the right then Nobby? Jenrick and Badenoch [cut maternity pay, do away with minimum wage] are definitely playing to that crowd. I agree with you on the Tory junior status coming in any partnership and your last sentence though. Jenrick and Badenoch are 'playing to a crowd' of what, around 150 Tory MP's? Nobody gives a toss as to who wins this leadership contest. The Tories are finished, but they don't seem to realize this.
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 10, 2024 13:18:20 GMT
C'mon, neither Jenrick nor Badenoch are "far right", and neither are Reform for that matter. That sort of talk is pretty disingenuous don't you think. The Tories want to merge with Reform as they think that they will then take over everything that Reform have built and once again, hey presto, they are back in power and Reform have disappeared. What they fail to see is that very soon the Tories will be the junior partner in that relationship. I predict an coalition government after the next GE. It may consist of Tory/Reform, or it may be Labour/Green/SNP/Plaid/LibDems/Islamic Parties. I cannot see a Tory or Labour majority. You think leaving the ECHR [to join Belarus and Russia], shouting sink the boats [Anderson] and let them drown [Habib] is not towards the right then Nobby? Jenrick and Badenoch [cut maternity pay, do away with minimum wage] are definitely playing to that crowd. I agree with you on the Tory junior status coming in any partnership and your last sentence though. Just a point Terry. You keep mentioning Russia and Belarus not being in the ECHR. You seem to think that the UK would become some sort of rogue state like them if it left the ECHR. The US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are among many many decent countries around the world who are not in the ECHR. Historically the UK has led the way world-wide on Human Rights, going right back to when it was the Royal Navy that ended the trans-atlantic slave trade. It should not be a problem to have a British Court of Human Rights (BCHR). I think British people would more readily accept a judgment from a British judge than a judge from say San Marino or Turkey !
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 6,957
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Post by oldie on Oct 10, 2024 13:26:37 GMT
You think leaving the ECHR [to join Belarus and Russia], shouting sink the boats [Anderson] and let them drown [Habib] is not towards the right then Nobby? Jenrick and Badenoch [cut maternity pay, do away with minimum wage] are definitely playing to that crowd. I agree with you on the Tory junior status coming in any partnership and your last sentence though. Just a point Terry. You keep mentioning Russia and Belarus not being in the ECHR. You seem to think that the UK would become some sort of rogue state like them if it left the ECHR. The US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are among many many decent countries around the world who are not in the ECHR. Historically the UK has led the way world-wide on Human Rights, going right back to when it was the Royal Navy that ended the trans-atlantic slave trade. It should not be a problem to have a British Court of Human Rights (BCHR). I think British people would more readily accept a judgment from a British judge than a judge from say San Marino or Turkey ! Didn't the UK and the learned people in our judiciary become instrumental in the setting up the ECHR? Were we wrong?
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 10, 2024 13:38:46 GMT
Just a point Terry. You keep mentioning Russia and Belarus not being in the ECHR. You seem to think that the UK would become some sort of rogue state like them if it left the ECHR. The US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are among many many decent countries around the world who are not in the ECHR. Historically the UK has led the way world-wide on Human Rights, going right back to when it was the Royal Navy that ended the trans-atlantic slave trade. It should not be a problem to have a British Court of Human Rights (BCHR). I think British people would more readily accept a judgment from a British judge than a judge from say San Marino or Turkey ! Didn't the UK and the learned people in our judiciary become instrumental in the setting up the ECHR? Were we wrong? No, we were not wrong. The problem is how the ECHR has become politicized over the years. It was set up after WW2 to stop countries from reproducing the excesses of the Germans. Now, 'Human Rights' are being used as an excuse for any complaint.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,857
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 10, 2024 14:15:37 GMT
You think leaving the ECHR [to join Belarus and Russia], shouting sink the boats [Anderson] and let them drown [Habib] is not towards the right then Nobby? Jenrick and Badenoch [cut maternity pay, do away with minimum wage] are definitely playing to that crowd. I agree with you on the Tory junior status coming in any partnership and your last sentence though. Just a point Terry. You keep mentioning Russia and Belarus not being in the ECHR. You seem to think that the UK would become some sort of rogue state like them if it left the ECHR. The US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are among many many decent countries around the world who are not in the ECHR. Historically the UK has led the way world-wide on Human Rights, going right back to when it was the Royal Navy that ended the trans-atlantic slave trade. It should not be a problem to have a British Court of Human Rights (BCHR). I think British people would more readily accept a judgment from a British judge than a judge from say San Marino or Turkey ! In theory Nobby but we are not back in the day of honourable people writing charters some of which the world envied or were led by. I would not trust the current stock of Tories nor Reform nor some of the other fringe politicians to write a British Bill of Human Rights when their stated aim is to reduce workers and minority rights. Badenoch has already made noises about maternity leave [she was wealthy enough to give up her job, most aren't] and the minimum wage [she says restricts business owners] etc. Churchill, whilst not being perfect, had a raised idea and sense of values and rights which todays Tories, sponsored by big business, do not. You may have great faith in them, I certainly do not.
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 10, 2024 14:43:56 GMT
Just a point Terry. You keep mentioning Russia and Belarus not being in the ECHR. You seem to think that the UK would become some sort of rogue state like them if it left the ECHR. The US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are among many many decent countries around the world who are not in the ECHR. Historically the UK has led the way world-wide on Human Rights, going right back to when it was the Royal Navy that ended the trans-atlantic slave trade. It should not be a problem to have a British Court of Human Rights (BCHR). I think British people would more readily accept a judgment from a British judge than a judge from say San Marino or Turkey ! In theory Nobby but we are not back in the day of honourable people writing charters some of which the world envied or were led by. I would not trust the current stock of Tories nor Reform nor some of the other fringe politicians to write a British Bill of Human Rights when their stated aim is to reduce workers and minority rights. Badenoch has already made noises about maternity leave [she was wealthy enough to give up her job, most aren't] and the minimum wage [she says restricts business owners] etc. Churchill, whilst not being perfect, had a raised idea and sense of values and rights which todays Tories, sponsored by big business, do not. You may have great faith in them, I certainly do not. I have no faith whatsoever in the current Tory Party.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,857
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 10, 2024 16:09:39 GMT
In theory Nobby but we are not back in the day of honourable people writing charters some of which the world envied or were led by. I would not trust the current stock of Tories nor Reform nor some of the other fringe politicians to write a British Bill of Human Rights when their stated aim is to reduce workers and minority rights. Badenoch has already made noises about maternity leave [she was wealthy enough to give up her job, most aren't] and the minimum wage [she says restricts business owners] etc. Churchill, whilst not being perfect, had a raised idea and sense of values and rights which todays Tories, sponsored by big business, do not. You may have great faith in them, I certainly do not. I have no faith whatsoever in the current Tory Party. Then why would you trust them with a British Bill of Human Rights that they are so desperate to put in place? Your rights, your defence against a rogue Government, etc
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,386
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Post by trymer on Oct 10, 2024 18:27:11 GMT
The usual suspects on here seem to be talking about Reform more than the tories,i suspect that they see Reform as a bigger threat to labour than the tories are,with labour becoming more unpopular every day the lefties are getting worried. The Tories see Reform as the biggest threat if you believe reports from their conference about wanting to 'merge' with them. The swing to the far right with Jenrick and Badenoch as last people standing indicates that they want to take Tory policy down the Reform route. The tories are dying,thats why the want to merge with (takeover) Reform...if that happened I wouldnt vote for Reform. I think that labour too are starting to see Reform as a rival for their votes.... As for the ECHR its out of date,it was made for another time with different problems a bit like the American constitution or the UN or NATO or the NHS,all of which need radical overhauls or totally replacing with something fit for present day circumstances.
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Post by baldrick on Oct 10, 2024 18:46:20 GMT
The Tories see Reform as the biggest threat if you believe reports from their conference about wanting to 'merge' with them. The swing to the far right with Jenrick and Badenoch as last people standing indicates that they want to take Tory policy down the Reform route. The tories are dying,thats why the want to merge with (takeover) Reform...if that happened I wouldnt vote for Reform. I think that labour too are starting to see Reform as a rival for their votes.... As for the ECHR its out of date,it was made for another time with different problems a bit like the American constitution or the UN or NATO or the NHS,all of which need radical overhauls or totally replacing with something fit for present day circumstances. Which brings on the question I asked Bas the other day, what is it about the ECHR you want changed, which of the rights are you looking to change?
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