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Post by baselswh on Jul 8, 2024 9:34:20 GMT
Reform will make great strides with FPTP or PR. Which ignores the French example I quoted Yes it as,but just to let you know,seeing as you mentioned "chest beating". As for the French,well from what I understand of it,I think it thorough, although there seems an element of 'moving the goal posts' . I prefer PR.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 8, 2024 9:56:37 GMT
There have many calls for a change to our electoral system given that Reform received more aggregate votes than the Lib Dems but only achieved 5 seats compared with 71 (I think). Personally I am uncomfortable with that, that is not representative democracy at work. However the French situation is an interesting one. Given the possibility of a Right Wing government the population coalesced around the centre/centre left/ hard left to keep them out. So successfully that RN who finishes 1st in round 1 could only manage 3rd in the final. This is, I would contend, an unofficial example of PR/Alternative vote schemes. As much as there is a lot of chest beating from Reform and their supporters (understandable) given that 84% did not vote for them I believe, if push came to shove, this is what would happen in the UK. Particularly as next time around Reform would have to produce a proper manifesto to put to the public and it still will not add up to a row of beans. Democratic scrutiny is what all parties of the extremes try their hardest to avoid You are being very selective in your numbers Oldie. So, 84% didn't vote for Reform. Well, Labour got 33.8% of the vote share, so 66.2% of those who voted didn't vote for them did they! Not only that but it was the lowest turn-out for 20+ years! I am no fan of PR voting systems as in the modern world it practically always results in a coalition government. Look at Germany, where every party has a say in Government, except the AfD who actually got the second largest vote share! Is that democratic? As for democratic scrutiny, I think it's worth starting a new thread, so we can scrutinize and discuss the current Government's progress against the promises they made. PS - Just what is a 'proper manifesto'? Can you honestly sit there and claim that the Labour manifesto was a true and correct document?
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 9, 2024 9:01:50 GMT
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 9, 2024 9:22:08 GMT
The Tories are gone. The attention has now switched to Labour, as we were discussing. The reality is that the Tories destroyed themselves from the inside starting with Theresa May. The Tories, in fact the majority of Parliament, were, and still are, Remainers. Even more so now. If Brexit helped destroy the Tories it wasn't because of the Brexit vote, but the fact that the Remain majority in the HoC did everything in their power to thwart the democratic decision of the people, which all started with May and her disastrous negotiations with the EU. Important point: Labour won a huge majority with 9.6m votes. Brexit was won with 17.2m votes. Now we have Labour looking to do as much as they can for 'closer integration' with the EU. It'll all end in tears.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 9, 2024 9:25:10 GMT
The Tories are gone. The attention has now switched to Labour, as we were discussing. The reality is that the Tories destroyed themselves from the inside starting with Theresa May. The Tories, in fact the majority of Parliament, were, and still are, Remainers. Even more so now. If Brexit helped destroy the Tories it wasn't because of the Brexit vote, but the fact that the Remain majority in the HoC did everything in their power to thwart the democratic decision of the people, which all started with May and her disastrous negotiations with the EU. Important point: Labour won a huge majority with 9.6m votes. Brexit was won with 17.2m votes. Now we have Labour looking to do as much as they can for 'closer integration' with the EU. It'll all end in tears. The signs are Labour will fail Britons and more voters will look to other parties.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 9, 2024 9:29:45 GMT
The Tories are gone. The attention has now switched to Labour, as we were discussing. The reality is that the Tories destroyed themselves from the inside starting with Theresa May. The Tories, in fact the majority of Parliament, were, and still are, Remainers. Even more so now. If Brexit helped destroy the Tories it wasn't because of the Brexit vote, but the fact that the Remain majority in the HoC did everything in their power to thwart the democratic decision of the people, which all started with May and her disastrous negotiations with the EU. Important point: Labour won a huge majority with 9.6m votes. Brexit was won with 17.2m votes. Now we have Labour looking to do as much as they can for 'closer integration' with the EU. It'll all end in tears. It's going to be interesting to witness what the current government do in an attempt to make up for awful economic consequences of Brexit. I don't think there is any appetite at this point for rejoining any of the institutions of the EU, more a bit of fiddling around the edges in attempt to ameliorate the impacts on small business. As we look over the precipice of economic meltdown.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 9, 2024 9:30:41 GMT
The Tories are gone. The attention has now switched to Labour, as we were discussing. The reality is that the Tories destroyed themselves from the inside starting with Theresa May. The Tories, in fact the majority of Parliament, were, and still are, Remainers. Even more so now. If Brexit helped destroy the Tories it wasn't because of the Brexit vote, but the fact that the Remain majority in the HoC did everything in their power to thwart the democratic decision of the people, which all started with May and her disastrous negotiations with the EU. Important point: Labour won a huge majority with 9.6m votes. Brexit was won with 17.2m votes. Now we have Labour looking to do as much as they can for 'closer integration' with the EU. It'll all end in tears. The signs are Labour will fail Britons and more voters will look to other parties. What signs are those then after one working day?😂😂😂
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 9, 2024 9:59:57 GMT
The Tories are gone. The attention has now switched to Labour, as we were discussing. The reality is that the Tories destroyed themselves from the inside starting with Theresa May. The Tories, in fact the majority of Parliament, were, and still are, Remainers. Even more so now. If Brexit helped destroy the Tories it wasn't because of the Brexit vote, but the fact that the Remain majority in the HoC did everything in their power to thwart the democratic decision of the people, which all started with May and her disastrous negotiations with the EU. Important point: Labour won a huge majority with 9.6m votes. Brexit was won with 17.2m votes. Now we have Labour looking to do as much as they can for 'closer integration' with the EU. It'll all end in tears. It's going to be interesting to witness what the current government do in an attempt to make up for awful economic consequences of Brexit. I don't think there is any appetite at this point for rejoining any of the institutions of the EU, more a bit of fiddling around the edges in attempt to ameliorate the impacts on small business. As we look over the precipice of economic meltdown. "It's going to be interesting to witness what the current government do in an attempt to make up for awful economic consequences of Brexit." - This is something you keep trotting out, but just what are these "awful economic consequences" of Brexit? We now export more to the EU than we did when we were in, even taking into account the false export numbers because everything had to go through Rotterdam! We have overtaken France to rise to fourth in the world for manufacturing. Trade with the rest of the world has risen, and will continue to rise with the new Trade Deals agreed. I live in the UK yet work in Germany without a single problem. Yes, there has been, and will continue to be problems with the EU. We all knew that, but over time I expect these issues to be smoothed out, but it will take both sides to agree before that happens. What we do know for a fact that the EU Single Market is contracting. It's a Market in decline. That is not my opinion but fact. The real growth is in the Far East, India and South America. Those are the markets we should be aiming at.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 9, 2024 10:45:03 GMT
It's going to be interesting to witness what the current government do in an attempt to make up for awful economic consequences of Brexit. I don't think there is any appetite at this point for rejoining any of the institutions of the EU, more a bit of fiddling around the edges in attempt to ameliorate the impacts on small business. As we look over the precipice of economic meltdown. "It's going to be interesting to witness what the current government do in an attempt to make up for awful economic consequences of Brexit." - This is something you keep trotting out, but just what are these "awful economic consequences" of Brexit? We now export more to the EU than we did when we were in, even taking into account the false export numbers because everything had to go through Rotterdam! We have overtaken France to rise to fourth in the world for manufacturing. Trade with the rest of the world has risen, and will continue to rise with the new Trade Deals agreed. I live in the UK yet work in Germany without a single problem. Yes, there has been, and will continue to be problems with the EU. We all knew that, but over time I expect these issues to be smoothed out, but it will take both sides to agree before that happens. What we do know for a fact that the EU Single Market is contracting. It's a Market in decline. That is not my opinion but fact. The real growth is in the Far East, India and South America. Those are the markets we should be aiming at. Gold. Take it out of the numbers
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 9, 2024 11:09:15 GMT
"It's going to be interesting to witness what the current government do in an attempt to make up for awful economic consequences of Brexit." - This is something you keep trotting out, but just what are these "awful economic consequences" of Brexit? We now export more to the EU than we did when we were in, even taking into account the false export numbers because everything had to go through Rotterdam! We have overtaken France to rise to fourth in the world for manufacturing. Trade with the rest of the world has risen, and will continue to rise with the new Trade Deals agreed. I live in the UK yet work in Germany without a single problem. Yes, there has been, and will continue to be problems with the EU. We all knew that, but over time I expect these issues to be smoothed out, but it will take both sides to agree before that happens. What we do know for a fact that the EU Single Market is contracting. It's a Market in decline. That is not my opinion but fact. The real growth is in the Far East, India and South America. Those are the markets we should be aiming at. Gold. Take it out of the numbers Eh???
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 9, 2024 11:32:46 GMT
Gold. Take it out of the numbers Eh??? "So has the UK become more competitive? Sadly, not. This is all due to a £13bn export in gold. This almost one-off export of gold has distorted UK trade figures. But why is the UK exporting such a large amount of gold? Historically, the UK has always been the world hub for gold trading. In economics they call the UK a “terminal hub”. The UK does not mine any significant quantity of gold, yet London is the world’s hub for trade in physical bullion. Today it is estimated to comprise approximately 70% of global notional trading volume and trades in 400oz bars which are stored in the member vaults of the London Precious Metals Clearing Limited and the Bank of England. So, given the dominance and opulence of gold bullion, any movements out of its world hub will significantly distort national trade figures. It is not yet clear what has caused this huge movement of gold – and often gold movements lack transparency for various reasons" There you go
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 9, 2024 11:46:14 GMT
In 2022, the UK exported over 32 billion pounds in Gold. Your figure of 13 billion sounds short, so therefore I suggest it is just a smokescreen. UK Gold Exports 2022
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 9, 2024 13:27:49 GMT
In 2022, the UK exported over 32 billion pounds in Gold. Your figure of 13 billion sounds short, so therefore I suggest it is just a smokescreen. UK Gold Exports 2022So why did you ask?
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 9, 2024 14:03:39 GMT
In 2022, the UK exported over 32 billion pounds in Gold. Your figure of 13 billion sounds short, so therefore I suggest it is just a smokescreen. UK Gold Exports 2022So why did you ask? Ask what? You brought this Gold stuff up.
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Jul 9, 2024 17:28:05 GMT
Has anyone seen Jess Phillips speech after the count when she won her seat ? held up several times by heckling until the room was cleared. Apparently it was a very dirty campaign, campaigners abused and one had car tyres slashed,Phillips said that Jo Cox's parents were supposed to campaign with her on the last day but she told them not to attend as she didnt want them to experience the hatred !....seems like Phillips/Labour not universally popular.
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 9, 2024 17:40:18 GMT
Has anyone seen Jess Phillips speech after the count when she won her seat ? held up several times by heckling until the room was cleared. Apparently it was a very dirty campaign, campaigners abused and one had car tyres slashed,Phillips said that Jo Cox's parents were supposed to campaign with her on the last day but she told them not to attend as she didnt want them to experience the hatred !....seems like Phillips/Labour not universally popular. Yes, it's what the Ropers bring to the table unfortunately.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 9, 2024 18:45:07 GMT
Ask what? You brought this Gold stuff up. When I said consider the impact of Gold Exports on our trade numbers you responded with..."eh"? As if you didn't know, then you quote it..
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 9, 2024 18:46:07 GMT
Has anyone seen Jess Phillips speech after the count when she won her seat ? held up several times by heckling until the room was cleared. Apparently it was a very dirty campaign, campaigners abused and one had car tyres slashed,Phillips said that Jo Cox's parents were supposed to campaign with her on the last day but she told them not to attend as she didnt want them to experience the hatred !....seems like Phillips/Labour not universally popular. Amongst a certain community
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Post by baselswh on Jul 9, 2024 19:15:57 GMT
Has anyone seen Jess Phillips speech after the count when she won her seat ? held up several times by heckling until the room was cleared. Apparently it was a very dirty campaign, campaigners abused and one had car tyres slashed,Phillips said that Jo Cox's parents were supposed to campaign with her on the last day but she told them not to attend as she didnt want them to experience the hatred !....seems like Phillips/Labour not universally popular. Amongst a certain community Jew hating racist Muslims. Bullies. Usual thoroughly disappointing and dangerous behaviour. Sectarian politics. Imported threat to our civilisation.
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Jul 10, 2024 7:06:14 GMT
Has anyone seen Jess Phillips speech after the count when she won her seat ? held up several times by heckling until the room was cleared. Apparently it was a very dirty campaign, campaigners abused and one had car tyres slashed,Phillips said that Jo Cox's parents were supposed to campaign with her on the last day but she told them not to attend as she didnt want them to experience the hatred !....seems like Phillips/Labour not universally popular. Amongst a certain community Phillips blames.....MEN ! she is another one without the guts to say it as it is ,although she likes to tell everyone what a 'strong woman' she is the reality is that she just has a big loud mouth. She had a majority of 13,500 (?) before this election but its less than 700 now, I know that numbers can be twisted to win any argument but this whole election has been really interesting,Labour win a landslide but with less votes, their majorities in certain areas have been cut,more Independents than ever. Things seem to have changed and could change a lot more if Labour fail to live up to the expectations that they have raised...if Labour become as unpoular as the last lot what happens next ?
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