oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 7, 2024 12:49:17 GMT
Do I need to? Do I really need to define atheism? Surely people are not that stupid? I think you need to chill... sarcasm as it's best . And you couldn't see it........šāŖ Fair play A bit slow today.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 7, 2024 13:25:38 GMT
Thank the Lord we did'nt have to go through Oldies atheism.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 7, 2024 13:38:23 GMT
One of our latest imported gifts to ourselves was the threats of violence from the pro Palestine racists standing.
Sectarian politics.
These people are determined to turn our UK into the s**t house Muslim countries they come from.
It's instinct,like a dog will chase a rabbit.Except they don't like dogs.Naturally.
Imported crap.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 7, 2024 14:06:08 GMT
Starmers Labour got 600,000 fewer votes than Corbyns 2019 Labour,yet they are on power with a huge majority.
Reform got 600,000 more votes than Libs. 71 seats Libs, Reform 5.
Reform and Greens might,just might work together for electoral reform.Maybe the Liberals too.
This election seems to show the unfairness of our first past the post system.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
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Post by trymer on Jul 7, 2024 14:33:09 GMT
The hecklers and protesters at the post election Reform press conference have also been exposed as actors. What on earth is going on! Reform need their own security department and they could build up a file on these 'protesters' who are actually being paid (by who?) to try and disrupt meetings. They also need an internal security team to vet every potential candidate and campaigner, hopefully Farage will bring proper organisers in now.
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Jul 7, 2024 14:42:16 GMT
Starmers Labour got 600,000 fewer votes than Corbyns 2019 Labour,yet they are on power with a huge majority. Reform got 600,000 more votes than Libs. 71 seats Libs, Reform 5. Reform and Greens might,just might work together for electoral reform.Maybe the Liberals too. This election seems to show the unfairness of our first past the post system. Bas,do you mean that Reform got 600,000 more votes than the Liberals ? The disparity between the voters and the seats is ridulous but Lib?Lab/Con wont go easily. Part of Labours lost votes will have gone to Independents, a video by the Guardian highlights the large number of Muslim voters turning away from Labour...they would have been part of Labours core vote until recently. I remember some years ago I was working somewhere and there was a Turkish bloke there,one lunch time we were talking about how many civilians were dying in the Wests bombings in Iraq and how no one seemed to know the numbers...Turkish bloke said "it makes my blood boil"..I said "well dont blame me because i never voted for Labour"..."no,but I did" he replied, I doubt if he voted for them again.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 7, 2024 15:30:44 GMT
Starmers Labour got 600,000 fewer votes than Corbyns 2019 Labour,yet they are on power with a huge majority. Reform got 600,000 more votes than Libs. 71 seats Libs, Reform 5. Reform and Greens might,just might work together for electoral reform.Maybe the Liberals too. This election seems to show the unfairness of our first past the post system. Bas,do you mean that Reform got 600,000 more votes than the Liberals ? The disparity between the voters and the seats is ridulous but Lib?Lab/Con wont go easily. Part of Labours lost votes will have gone to Independents, a video by the Guardian highlights the large number of Muslim voters turning away from Labour...they would have been part of Labours core vote until recently. I remember some years ago I was working somewhere and there was a Turkish bloke there,one lunch time we were talking about how many civilians were dying in the Wests bombings in Iraq and how no one seemed to know the numbers...Turkish bloke said "it makes my blood boil"..I said "well dont blame me because i never voted for Labour"..."no,but I did" he replied, I doubt if he voted for them again. Yes Trymer,apparently Reform got 600,000 more votes than the Liberals. Liberals 71 seats.Reform 5 seats. A PR system would of seen Reform with over 90 seats. Reform got third place in the overall votes table! Only 5 MPs.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 7, 2024 16:45:28 GMT
Bas,do you mean that Reform got 600,000 more votes than the Liberals ? The disparity between the voters and the seats is ridulous but Lib?Lab/Con wont go easily. Part of Labours lost votes will have gone to Independents, a video by the Guardian highlights the large number of Muslim voters turning away from Labour...they would have been part of Labours core vote until recently. I remember some years ago I was working somewhere and there was a Turkish bloke there,one lunch time we were talking about how many civilians were dying in the Wests bombings in Iraq and how no one seemed to know the numbers...Turkish bloke said "it makes my blood boil"..I said "well dont blame me because i never voted for Labour"..."no,but I did" he replied, I doubt if he voted for them again. Yes Trymer,apparently Reform got 600,000 more votes than the Liberals. Liberals 71 seats.Reform 5 seats. A PR system would of seen Reform with over 90 seats. Reform got third place in the overall votes table! Only 5 MPs. Either way you play it Reform only achieved about 15% of the vote. Which actually is a great result for them, given that they had no coherent manifesto, the numbers they produced never added up and they recruited some of the most obnoxious people imaginable. Which does beg a question. Will some people vote for anything regardless of the evidence in front of them? As for Proportional Representation I have some sympathy for that system, or equivalent. But, it's funny how this question always arises when small parties feel aggrieved over a result. For Reform, they will now be subject to greater scrutiny which, I suspect, will expose them. But we shall see.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 7, 2024 17:37:36 GMT
Yes Trymer,apparently Reform got 600,000 more votes than the Liberals. Liberals 71 seats.Reform 5 seats. A PR system would of seen Reform with over 90 seats. Reform got third place in the overall votes table! Only 5 MPs. Either way you play it Reform only achieved about 15% of the vote. Which actually is a great result for them, given that they had no coherent manifesto, the numbers they produced never added up and they recruited some of the most obnoxious people imaginable. Which does beg a question. Will some people vote for anything regardless of the evidence in front of them? As for Proportional Representation I have some sympathy for that system, or equivalent. But, it's funny how this question always arises when small parties feel aggrieved over a result. For Reform, they will now be subject to greater scrutiny which, I suspect, will expose them. But we shall see. The smaller parties want it,some in Labour want it too. Reform voters get 1.25 MPs per million votes.They want it. Reform voters are informed,your arrogant suggestion they are not is nonsense . The dirty smear campaign against Reform,from MSM,the CH4 thing ,other parties people like you etc,has so far failed.You'll have to do much better. Labour will now be the scrutinised party and they will struggle.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 7, 2024 17:45:53 GMT
"Reform voters are informed,your arrogant suggestion they are not is nonsense ."
Happy to be corrected. Could you articulate a point that you, or other Reform supporters, were informed and predicated that informed view upon?
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Post by baselswh on Jul 7, 2024 17:50:16 GMT
"Reform voters are informed,your arrogant suggestion they are not is nonsense ." Happy to be corrected. Could you articulate a point that you, or other Reform supporters, were informed and predicated that informed view upon? š Have you been training to be a lawyer and are practicing Court speak? You're gonna have to repeat that Question Oldie but in usual English please. Edit. If you're asking what Reform voters were informed about,the party released their Peoples Contract.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 7, 2024 19:58:05 GMT
Also ,Reform finished second in over 90 constituencies.
We'll see how the next few years go,but Reform may even gain power with the FPTP electoral system.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 7, 2024 23:07:29 GMT
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Post by Nobbygas on Jul 8, 2024 6:25:31 GMT
No Oldie, there is no 'gnashing of the teeth' by Reform supporters. Politically, France is in a deep hole, which can only result in trouble for everyone.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 8, 2024 6:48:22 GMT
France will have more imported horrible crime by some immigrant Muslims.There will be riots,then the farmers. The Left will face an even bigger challenge from the Right in the next election . The Olympic committee wanted to take the Olympic Flame on a boat,up the Seine,but the masses of security said "no" as they can't guarantee its safety. Tough time for the French to put their best foot forward.
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Jul 8, 2024 6:59:41 GMT
No Oldie, there is no 'gnashing of the teeth' by Reform supporters. Politically, France is in a deep hole, which can only result in trouble for everyone.
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trymer
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Post by trymer on Jul 8, 2024 7:03:21 GMT
No Oldie, there is no 'gnashing of the teeth' by Reform supporters. Politically, France is in a deep hole, which can only result in trouble for everyone. Whilst I agree that France is in a mess and because they are one of the biggest economies in the EU that means the EU will have problems....I dont agree that means trouble for "everyone" I doubt that it will be bad news for Britain ?.....and it wont mean trouble for Putin,I bet he's rubbing his hands about France/EU becoming more unstable. As a Reform voter I am certainly not gnashing my teeth,I just wish that Melenchon had done better but the mess that they have brought on themselves has made me smile on my morning walk its a nice sunny morning too.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 8, 2024 9:16:48 GMT
Whilst I agree thatĀ France is in a mess and because they are one of the biggest economies in the EU that means the EU will have problems....I dont agree that means trouble for "everyone"Ā I doubt thatĀ it will be bad news for Britain ?.....and it wont mean trouble for Putin,I bet he's rubbing his hands aboutĀ France/EUĀ becomingĀ more unstable. As a Reform voter I am certainly not gnashing my teeth,I just wish that Melenchon had done better but theĀ mess that they have brought on themselves hasĀ made me smile on my morning walk its a nice sunny morning too. There have many calls for a change to our electoral system given that Reform received more aggregate votes than the Lib Dems but only achieved 5 seats compared with 71 (I think). Personally I am uncomfortable with that, that is not representative democracy at work. However the French situation is an interesting one. Given the possibility of a Right Wing government the population coalesced around the centre/centre left/ hard left to keep them out. So successfully that RN who finishes 1st in round 1 could only manage 3rd in the final. This is, I would contend, an unofficial example of PR/Alternative vote schemes. As much as there is a lot of chest beating from Reform and their supporters (understandable) given that 84% did not vote for them I believe, if push came to shove, this is what would happen in the UK. Particularly as next time around Reform would have to produce a proper manifesto to put to the public and it still will not add up to a row of beans. Democratic scrutiny is what all parties of the extremes try their hardest to avoid
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Post by baselswh on Jul 8, 2024 9:20:30 GMT
There have many calls for a change to our electoral system given that Reform received more aggregate votes than the Lib Dems but only achieved 5 seats compared with 71 (I think). Personally I am uncomfortable with that, that is not representative democracy at work. However the French situation is an interesting one. Given the possibility of a Right Wing government the population coalesced around the centre/centre left/ hard left to keep them out. So successfully that RN who finishes 1st in round 1 could only manage 3rd in the final. This is, I would contend, an unofficial example of PR/Alternative vote schemes. As much as there is a lot of chest beating from Reform and their supporters (understandable) given that 84% did not vote for them I believe, if push came to shove, this is what would happen in the UK. Particularly as next time around Reform would have to produce a proper manifesto to put to the public and it still will not add up to a row of beans. Democratic scrutiny is what all parties of the extremes try their hardest to avoid Reform will make great strides with FPTP or PR.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jul 8, 2024 9:22:33 GMT
There have many calls for a change to our electoral system given that Reform received more aggregate votes than the Lib Dems but only achieved 5 seats compared with 71 (I think). Personally I am uncomfortable with that, that is not representative democracy at work. However the French situation is an interesting one. Given the possibility of a Right Wing government the population coalesced around the centre/centre left/ hard left to keep them out. So successfully that RN who finishes 1st in round 1 could only manage 3rd in the final. This is, I would contend, an unofficial example of PR/Alternative vote schemes. As much as there is a lot of chest beating from Reform and their supporters (understandable) given that 84% did not vote for them I believe, if push came to shove, this is what would happen in the UK. Particularly as next time around Reform would have to produce a proper manifesto to put to the public and it still will not add up to a row of beans. Democratic scrutiny is what all parties of the extremes try their hardest to avoid Reform will make great strides with FPTP or PR. Which ignores the French example I quoted
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