2024

We are taking about illegal immigration here, I get your points that you raise, but you are confusing the two issues.

Simple question for you,and please be honest and don't play your games if you want a genuine conversation here.

Do we have a problem with "illegal immigration" in this country?

Myself, I would call is a national crisis, and a pandemic of sorts and it's brought violence to our streets even if its being done by Hooligans, and far right thugs.

Our boarders are out of control, and my views that I express on there that you largely take out if context and spin, are based on my very concerns of the invasion currently happening by criminals entering our country.

Would you stop illegal immigrants entering this country by pulling up the drawbridge?

In my opinion, we have to...Now.

I agree that we have an issue with migration that does not arrive through legal channels. Absolutely, it's chaos, costing people's lives, overrunning our ability to process them in a timely fashion and costing us a fortune because of our laudable desire to stand by the treaties we have signed up to.

But these 50,000 (let's not argue how this came about at this point) have a minimal impact on our out culture and language.
What does have an impact is the Johnson Government altering the legal visa rules that has resulted in 1.2 million visas being issued annually to people from around the world.

This change brought huge pressure on housing and services because a lot of these people were allowed to bring their families(I believe that's been amended now) so we're older. Some on here I like to compare it to when Blair opened up free movement. But it is not comparable in so far as those Europeans were on average, young, single and flexible. And our young had the same opportunities.

So I put it to you, as much as people racking up on boats is a real issue, the impact on our society, the ones you have highlighted as an example, are minimal compared to the 1.2million annually the government have granted access to in the last few years.

Aim your anger at the right targets

Just who the hell are you to tell me to 'butt out' and now accuse me of hijacking the thread?

Oldie

There are two, possibly three separate arguments being rolled into one, they should be kept separate for the sake of clarity.

Legal migration, I wouldn't argue that current numbers are too many but that is the choice of the government of the day.

Illegal migration, aka the boats crossing the channel, isn't near the same numbers. They need to be processed and quicker.

Your concerns over our ability to support the current numbers or language, integration, etc, is really affected by the former.

Separately is those left behind and feel aggrieved, genuine concerns which have to be addressed.

We should keep things in proportion and not risk the "othering" or scapegoating of people.

Do you have a link to show it's the illegal migrants causing the crime?

"Legal migration, I wouldn't argue that current numbers are too many but that is the choice of the government of the day."

Exactly.
I really don't understand those that argue that immigration is a threat to our culture and way of life, but then focus on the 50,000 odd that come in seeking asylum but ignore the visa led majority which are over 20 times that number. It's completely irrational. Bizarre

"Separately is those left behind and feel aggrieved, genuine concerns which have to be addressed"

Again, absolutely
But we cannot have that conversation when we are screaming at immigrants when in fact "being left behind" started in the 1980s as a direct result of government policy and re-enforced by austerity after 2010.

It's a year out of date and for some, as it's the Guardian, the source isn't one they'd use, but for the benefit of good debate:

"The Oxford Migration Observatory, the academic institute that gathers data on the movement of people, said it was not aware of any recent academic or official statistics examining criminality among refugees who had recently arrived in the UK.

“There is little evidence that migrants are any more or less likely to commit crimes than any other members of the population,” a spokesperson said.

The National Police Chiefs’ Council said it was not in a position to say who Braverman had spoken to.

But police sources said there is a general perception that those who arrive in small boats are vulnerable and can be victims or become victims of exploitation and then become involved in crimes.

There will undoubtedly be those who go on to commit crime and there can be a variety of reasons why this may occur such as exploitation, debt bondage or proximity to organised crime gangs, the source said."

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/26/does-suella-braverman-have-evidence-to-link-boat-arrivals-crime

The average crime rate for non ideginous people's of the UK is circa 5% of all crimes. The same (rounded) for ideginous people's.