Icegas
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Post by Icegas on Jun 9, 2024 15:48:02 GMT
Yes,one could argue that we did,or did not create the conflict in Gaza today by putting the Jews there after the last world war... But are we responsible for everything post that era? Again, that's debatable as Hamas of today would have always a risen up given what the Quran says. I will go as far as saying the idea of Islam is evil,not Muslims. I'm not really a practicing soul of any realgion, but I'm a person of great faith and of a spiritual connection to life and what we experience during our lottery ticket called life.. I believe that if I'm a good person to my fellow man then I will go where the good spirits go, and I don't need any book to follow. I too am an atheist. Btw the Quran says no such thing. The Qur'an expresses guidance not prescription, the problem being that it can be open to interpretation. It's not religion as such, that has been hijacked by the lunatics. It is culture. There is a massive difference between Muslims in West Africa, the Saudis on the other side of the continent, the Aryans in northern Iran and the Baluchis and Bengalis to the East. The unifying factor to them all? Us Sorry, I've miss understood what doesn't the Quran say?
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 9, 2024 15:57:03 GMT
We have been down this road so many times. I spent the 1st 14 years of my life south Bristol, in Knowle. We shared a council house in Knowle for the first 4 years with my grandparents before being allocated our own. Does that qualify me as working class? I claim it, quite proud of it. I don't recognise your views as being "working class" I knew we both started going to Eastville in 1963 but it seems we have a lot more in common than I thought. Our family shared a cottage with my grandmother for the first seven years of my life before moving a hundred yards up the street to a council house. My Mum was born in the cottage in 1926 and died in the council house 69 years later and she never lived anywhere else but “ our street”. My two sons are now US citizens ( dual) as I’m sure yours are and they had to sign up to be available for military service but thankfully are now past the age where a call up is mandatory. I agree with your analysis of the historical reasons for the problems in the Middle East and think it boils down to backing the wrong people. The world has poured massive amounts of money into the region in an attempt to solve the problem but it’s gone to the wrong kind of people and been spent in the wrong way. An Israeli spokesman once talked about what a wonderful place Gaza could have been if the money it received from the West had been used sensibly rather than falling into corrupt hands. It has a wonderful position on the shores of the Mediterranean with potential for tourism and trade and could have become a new Singapore but for the corruption. And it was this corruption which drove the fed up population, in desperation, to vote for Hamas in 2006. Now their doctrine of hate has been systematically embedded and is spreading far afield, even to the campuses of US colleges and to people who have no idea of the history or the reasons for the conflict but who see this hate and aggression as some kind of fashionable leisure pursuit. For many years there was a huge amount of hate and aggression on both sides of the Irish border and I had an insight into this through a friendship with someone who was very close to John Hume and Seamus Mallon. About 40 years ago he gave me a very accurate assessment of how the Northern Ireland conflict would be resolved and said it all depended on prosperity. He said if the people felt they were prospering then they would reject extremism and on the whole I think he’s been proven right. Prosperity is usually taken to relate to financial well-being but the true definition is much wider than that and would include things like “ being successful” “ thriving” and “ flourishing” which can all be accomplished without a hint of money being involved. I think instilling a sense of prosperity in the people of the Middle East is the key to eliminating extremism. Funny how life unfolds isnt it Swiss. Yes my two sons are resident in the States, one is a naturalised American city now the other a green card holder. I 100% agree with your comments over prosperity as an antidote to extremism. It is the way to move on from the past, a way for hope for the future. Good luck Swiss
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 9, 2024 15:59:50 GMT
I too am an atheist. Btw the Quran says no such thing. The Qur'an expresses guidance not prescription, the problem being that it can be open to interpretation. It's not religion as such, that has been hijacked by the lunatics. It is culture. There is a massive difference between Muslims in West Africa, the Saudis on the other side of the continent, the Aryans in northern Iran and the Baluchis and Bengalis to the East. The unifying factor to them all? Us Sorry, I've miss understood what doesn't the Quran say? What I am trying to say is Qur'an offers guidance and is not necessarily prescriptive. It can also be difficult to translate that into English
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 9, 2024 16:06:34 GMT
If you don't understand how we got to this place, this position, how on earth can you resolve it? The thing is it is the "blow hard" language from the likes of people like you who are actually a barrier to resolving the problems. What about the Labour MP that spoke out about the Muslim rape gangs.Sarah Champion I think,resigned from Corbyns Opposition Party,because people in power/authority were scared of looking that made up word," Islamophobic ". The rape gangs continued She was brave and used sensible and calm language,but that still was'nt good enough. It had got to the stage,any criticism of Islam etc was seen as far Right,Nazi etc! What an awful joke! People like you,using awful accusational language to attack free speech ,why? A few of the Muslims you know have professional jobs. Bloody ridiculous,dangerous and fascist. Oh dear. To be honest I actually feel pity for you. That is a very dark space you inhabit.
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Post by baselswh on Jun 9, 2024 16:28:22 GMT
What about the Labour MP that spoke out about the Muslim rape gangs.Sarah Champion I think,resigned from Corbyns Opposition Party,because people in power/authority were scared of looking that made up word," Islamophobic ". The rape gangs continued She was brave and used sensible and calm language,but that still was'nt good enough. It had got to the stage,any criticism of Islam etc was seen as far Right,Nazi etc! What an awful joke! People like you,using awful accusational language to attack free speech ,why? A few of the Muslims you know have professional jobs. Bloody ridiculous,dangerous and fascist. Oh dear. To be honest I actually feel pity for you. That is a very dark space you inhabit. As usual,'attack' the poster with your arrogant spite. Then ignore the point. "Blow hard" speak or calm speak. Both have not been allowed,or at least if used people like you have labelled people "racist " and "Islamophobic ". Difficult for critics of Islam to win,is'nt it. Then there's the Charlie Hebdow massacre.Etc,etc.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 9, 2024 17:21:29 GMT
Oh dear. To be honest I actually feel pity for you. That is a very dark space you inhabit. As usual,'attack' the poster with your arrogant spite. Then ignore the point. "Blow hard" speak or calm speak. Both have not been allowed,or at least if used people like you have labelled people "racist " and "Islamophobic ". Difficult for critics of Islam to win,is'nt it. Then there's the Charlie Hebdow massacre.Etc,etc. Yet you are the one calls me a racist, an antisemite and a terrorist sympathiser. Do you not see the hypocrisy in what you have just written? I think it best that I don't respond to you, you have not much to say in any event.
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Post by baselswh on Jun 9, 2024 17:52:57 GMT
As usual,'attack' the poster with your arrogant spite. Then ignore the point. "Blow hard" speak or calm speak. Both have not been allowed,or at least if used people like you have labelled people "racist " and "Islamophobic ". Difficult for critics of Islam to win,is'nt it. Then there's the Charlie Hebdow massacre.Etc,etc. Yet you are the one calls me a racist, an antisemite and a terrorist sympathiser. Do you not see the hypocrisy in what you have just written? I think it best that I don't respond to you, you have not much to say in any event. Still ignored the question. Surely you see how difficult things are when criticism of Islam,in any style,is answered by tarnishing a persons character and possibly ruining or ending their life. That was my point.
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
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Post by Icegas on Jun 9, 2024 17:57:25 GMT
Sorry, I've miss understood what doesn't the Quran say? What I am trying to say is Qur'an offers guidance and is not necessarily prescriptive. It can also be difficult to translate that into English Is it? I've heard personally many..and I mean many times in my personal life through work,and due to face to face conversations ( so not online etc...) how what is written in the Quran has been very much taken at face value,and acted upon by both the English speaking,along with non,or very broken English speaking muslims. I've seen Muslims do vary non conventional acts in our society like washing their feet,asses and whole body before praying in public sinks at work and the gym with no regard to anyone else,along with hearing them s**tting and not wiping their asses, or if they do,then they put their used toilet paper in waste bins, rather than down the toilet as they refuse to. Again Oldie, I'm not against individual Muslims but the Islamic religion,even at the very basic hygiene level is a disgrace and we at this very fundamental level have imported this.
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
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Post by Icegas on Jun 9, 2024 18:16:51 GMT
Yes,one could argue that we did,or did not create the conflict in Gaza today by putting the Jews there after the last world war... But are we responsible for everything post that era? Again, that's debatable as Hamas of today would have always a risen up given what the Quran says. I will go as far as saying the idea of Islam is evil,not Muslims. I'm not really a practicing soul of any realgion, but I'm a person of great faith and of a spiritual connection to life and what we experience during our lottery ticket called life.. I believe that if I'm a good person to my fellow man then I will go where the good spirits go, and I don't need any book to follow. I too am an atheist. Btw the Quran says no such thing. The Qur'an expresses guidance not prescription, the problem being that it can be open to interpretation. It's not religion as such, that has been hijacked by the lunatics. It is culture. There is a massive difference between Muslims in West Africa, the Saudis on the other side of the continent, the Aryans in northern Iran and the Baluchis and Bengalis to the East. The unifying factor to them all? Us Also,I'm not an atheist... I said that I just don't need to follow a book or any organized religion. I'm a man,and soul of great faith and believe in the logic that there is more to us then us debating on a pointless forum such as this.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,556
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Post by trymer on Jun 9, 2024 18:19:43 GMT
Yet you are the one calls me a racist, an antisemite and a terrorist sympathiser. Do you not see the hypocrisy in what you have just written? I think it best that I don't respond to you, you have not much to say in any event. Still ignored the question. Surely you see how difficult things are when criticism of Islam,in any style,is answered by tarnishing a persons character and possibly ruining or ending their life. That was my point. He isnt going to respond to you any more Bas...whip out and buy some scratch cards its your lucky day.
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Post by baselswh on Jun 9, 2024 18:21:52 GMT
Still ignored the question. Surely you see how difficult things are when criticism of Islam,in any style,is answered by tarnishing a persons character and possibly ruining or ending their life. That was my point. He isnt going to respond to you any more Bas...whip out and buy some scratch cards its your lucky day. 😄
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
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Post by Icegas on Jun 9, 2024 18:27:04 GMT
What about the Labour MP that spoke out about the Muslim rape gangs.Sarah Champion I think,resigned from Corbyns Opposition Party,because people in power/authority were scared of looking that made up word," Islamophobic ". The rape gangs continued She was brave and used sensible and calm language,but that still was'nt good enough. It had got to the stage,any criticism of Islam etc was seen as far Right,Nazi etc! What an awful joke! People like you,using awful accusational language to attack free speech ,why? A few of the Muslims you know have professional jobs. Bloody ridiculous,dangerous and fascist. Oh dear. To be honest I actually feel pity for you. That is a very dark space you inhabit. No it's not Oldie...it is indeed the truth, thats if you open your seemly,and sadly closed mind and decided to investigate the facts for yourself then be honest with your conclusion rather than doing the normal leftie spin..
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 9, 2024 18:49:39 GMT
Oh dear. To be honest I actually feel pity for you. That is a very dark space you inhabit. No it's not Oldie...it is indeed the truth, thats if you open your seemly,and sadly closed mind and decided to investigate the facts for yourself then be honest with your conclusion rather than doing the normal leftie spin.. Could you articulate exactly what "spin" I have applied in my responses?
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ltdgas
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,093
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Post by ltdgas on Jun 9, 2024 18:59:27 GMT
As usual,'attack' the poster with your arrogant spite. Then ignore the point. "Blow hard" speak or calm speak. Both have not been allowed,or at least if used people like you have labelled people "racist " and "Islamophobic ". Difficult for critics of Islam to win,is'nt it. Then there's the Charlie Hebdow massacre.Etc,etc. Yet you are the one calls me a racist, an antisemite and a terrorist sympathiser. Do you not see the hypocrisy in what you have just written? I think it best that I don't respond to you, you have not much to say in any event. I originally called you a terrorist sympathiser because whilst innocent sailors were having rockets rained down on them , American servicemen were dieing on there bases , the only thing you were concerned about were Yemeni terroists ( the ones sending the rockets ) being bombed 🙄🙄. What other conclusion would you draw !! Anyway I’ll be not to Hard on you after bt outed you 😂😂, just watch out as your Muslim mates Chuck your typed off buildings !!
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
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Post by Icegas on Jun 9, 2024 19:05:24 GMT
No it's not Oldie...it is indeed the truth, thats if you open your seemly,and sadly closed mind and decided to investigate the facts for yourself then be honest with your conclusion rather than doing the normal leftie spin.. Could you articulate exactly what "spin" I have applied in my responses? How about denying that this is the truth...? That of course is if you refuse to look at the reports into this or admit the fact it's the truth once seen..
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 9, 2024 19:09:01 GMT
Could you articulate exactly what "spin" I have applied in my responses? How about denying that this is the truth...? That of course is if you refuse to look at the reports into this or admit the fact it's the truth once seen.. Circles, so I am spinning a storey because I disagree?
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Icegas
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Post by Icegas on Jun 9, 2024 19:13:00 GMT
How about denying that this is the truth...? That of course is if you refuse to look at the reports into this or admit the fact it's the truth once seen.. Circles, so I am spinning a storey because I disagree? No but you know Islam better than myself as you stated, and I guess others on here,so surely you are well versed in the subject brought up? It's not circles,it you don't know the facts and stuff you talk about. That's spinning things,as its lying..
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
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Post by trymer on Jun 9, 2024 19:34:37 GMT
The only thing I know about Islam is what I read about the prophet and his wife Aisha...I dont want to know any more.
Not keen on christianity either,the bible seems to be full of killing and hate.
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oldie
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Post by oldie on Jun 9, 2024 19:55:59 GMT
Circles, so I am spinning a storey because I disagree? No but you know Islam better than myself as you stated, and I guess others in on here,so surely you are well versed in the subject brought up? It's not circles,it you don't know the facts and stuff you talk about. That's spinning things,as its lying.. I have tried. I have suggested that literal translation is not always correct. I have said that the general text is supposed to be used as a guide and not to be prescriptive. You may disagree and that's your perogative. As an atheist I reject the Qur'an in the same way as I rejected the bible when Christians tried to indoctrinate me as a child. But my atheism does not mean I accept mindless hatred from people who have no idea of what they are talking about. And that includes cultures that use religion to perpetrate hatred. Like some countries use Islam. Like Zionist extremists use Judaism, like some countries have used catholicism, like the BJP in India use Hinduism. You say you have faith, well you can live with that if you can, I couldn't and cannot. Btw, my atheism was known in Iran and in America. It was largely irrelevant in both cases.
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Icegas
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Post by Icegas on Jun 9, 2024 20:12:02 GMT
No but you know Islam better than myself as you stated, and I guess others in on here,so surely you are well versed in the subject brought up? It's not circles,it you don't know the facts and stuff you talk about. That's spinning things,as its lying.. I have tried. I have suggested that literal translation is not always correct. I have said that the general text is supposed to be used as a guide and not to be prescriptive. You may disagree and that's your perogative. As an atheist I reject the Qur'an in the same way as I rejected the bible when Christians tried to indoctrinate me as a child. But my atheism does not mean I accept mindless hatred from people who have no idea of what they are talking about. And that includes cultures that use religion to perpetrate hatred. Like some countries use Islam. Like Zionist extremists use Judaism, like some countries have used catholicism, like the BJP in India use Hinduism. You say you have faith, well you can live with that if you can, I couldn't and cannot. Btw, my atheism was known in Iran and in America. It was largely irrelevant in both cases. I respect that you choose not to have faith,again I don't follow a book nor any religion as such, but I can't believe that us sharing.. ( really pointless posts here between ourselves, or myself cutting my lawn this morning,or shopping this afternoon is all there is to our beings..?) That just doesn't make sense to me, you decide to differ...? And I respect that. However,when I see pure hatred and bullying via a blind faith in religion such as Islam, and I've read the texts within it... thats is full of pure hatred - I cannot...and will not, be silent especially when it's taken over my homeland and my culture.You may not see this,but your ignorance does not make it not true.
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