|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 15, 2023 9:55:17 GMT
Pr'haps Gorringe has got rid of that too...? Only news we want is bombing stopped in Gaza strip and Israel defenceless innocent children being murdered by indiscriminate bombing needs to stop. Website is poor Andy Downie left and replaced by a less able replacement presumably. It does need to stop(the bombing), it really did not need to start....but then again nor did Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq etc bombings targeting civvies either.. A lot of the replacements have been less able, but hey nepotistic appointments get covered over all the while litigation is taken through the back door to keep things quiet.. This is what we have to deal with in the name of progress. |
|
harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,566 
Member is Online
|
Post by harrybuckle on Oct 15, 2023 16:45:33 GMT
Only news we want is bombing stopped in Gaza strip and Israel defenceless innocent children being murdered by indiscriminate bombing needs to stop. Website is poor Andy Downie left and replaced by a less able replacement presumably. It does need to stop(the bombing), it really did not need to start....but then again nor did Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq etc bombings targeting civvies either.. A lot of the replacements have been less able, but hey nepotistic appointments get covered over all the while litigation is taken through the back door to keep things quiet.. This is what we have to deal with in the name of progress. So when your land has been stolen year on year, so much so that you live in a ghetto situation. Your power, your access to water and food are controlled by the state that has stolen your land does it come as any surprise that some people are going to fight back? All we are saying is give peace a chance just like what happened in Northern Ireland..live together in peace no violence no bombing just accept each other |
|
|
|
Post by rideintothesun on Oct 16, 2023 8:29:02 GMT
It does need to stop(the bombing), it really did not need to start....but then again nor did Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq etc bombings targeting civvies either.. A lot of the replacements have been less able, but hey nepotistic appointments get covered over all the while litigation is taken through the back door to keep things quiet.. This is what we have to deal with in the name of progress. So when your land has been stolen year on year, so much so that you live in a ghetto situation. Your power, your access to water and food are controlled by the state that has stolen your land does it come as any surprise that some people are going to fight back? All we are saying is give peace a chance just like what happened in Northern Ireland..live together in peace no violence no bombing just accept each other I don't think there is much chance of Israel living peacefully alongside Hamas after their grotesque barbarism. Israel will actually be doing Palestinians and the rest of us a favour when they eradicate Hamas from the face of the Earth. Its unfortunate that Palestinians will die as a consequence, but unavoidable. Many will die if Hamas remains in power and continues to use the people of the Strip in its struggle to eradicate Israel and Israelis/Jews from the face of the Earth. Israel is a colonial state that was established after a Holocaust that was perpetrated by Europeans. After what happened, it was inevitable that Jews would seek to establish their own state, and unfortunately it was the Palestinians who paid the price. You would do well to remember this and other basic facts before sounding off with your 'cut and paste' Leftist diatribes. I find them hard to tolerate at the best of times, but especially so after terrorist attacks that included the murder and mutilation of innocent civilians. Incidentally, it would be nice to see the club arrange some sort of commemoration for the victims of the terrorist attack before the next game. This isn't endorsing Israel or what it is currently doing in the Gaza Strip. It is a basic human obligation and decency that so many, including you and the demonstrators who openly celebrated the murder of innocent civilians, have failed to fulfil. |
|
|
|
Post by rideintothesun on Oct 16, 2023 8:34:41 GMT
Only news we want is bombing stopped in Gaza strip and Israel defenceless innocent children being murdered by indiscriminate bombing needs to stop. Website is poor Andy Downie left and replaced by a less able replacement presumably. It does need to stop(the bombing), it really did not need to start....but then again nor did Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq etc bombings targeting civvies either.. A lot of the replacements have been less able, but hey nepotistic appointments get covered over all the while litigation is taken through the back door to keep things quiet.. This is what we have to deal with in the name of progress. I'm not sure Israel's leaders will be reading the BRFC Independent Forum in search of wise counsel as to what they should do in the aftermath of terrorist attacks that killed thousands of innocent civilians, but could you please tell the rest of us what you think they should do instead of taking military action against those responsible? Would you like Israelis and Gazans to join hands and sing John Lennon's 'Imagine'? Unfortunately past experience suggests that the latter are more likely to call for the destruction of the 'Zionist entity' and the murder of its inhabitants. |
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 16, 2023 14:09:45 GMT
It does need to stop(the bombing), it really did not need to start....but then again nor did Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, Iraq etc bombings targeting civvies either.. A lot of the replacements have been less able, but hey nepotistic appointments get covered over all the while litigation is taken through the back door to keep things quiet.. This is what we have to deal with in the name of progress. I'm not sure Israel's leaders will be reading the BRFC Independent Forum in search of wise counsel as to what they should do in the aftermath of terrorist attacks that killed thousands of innocent civilians, but could you please tell the rest of us what you think they should do instead of taking military action against those responsible? Would you like Israelis and Gazans to join hands and sing John Lennon's 'Imagine'? Unfortunately past experience suggests that the latter are more likely to call for the destruction of the 'Zionist entity' and the murder of its inhabitants. I'm not sure anything can be done, RITS. Especially with reprisals. I like that, 'Imagine'....a dreamer nice idea. What I find a bit unnerving is: As this appears to be a religious conflict, no religion is calling (publicly) for peace or peaceful solutions. Not one head of religion appears to publicly plea for this (apologies if it's out there, I must have missed it). |
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,600
|
Post by eppinggas on Oct 16, 2023 14:24:59 GMT
Moving all comments on the Israeli conflict to: Current affairs (non-political) / Palestinians thread. (Mods decision).
|
|
oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
|
Post by oldie on Oct 16, 2023 16:33:05 GMT
So when your land has been stolen year on year, so much so that you live in a ghetto situation. Your power, your access to water and food are controlled by the state that has stolen your land does it come as any surprise that some people are going to fight back? All we are saying is give peace a chance just like what happened in Northern Ireland..live together in peace no violence no bombing just accept each other I don't think there is much chance of Israel living peacefully alongside Hamas after their grotesque barbarism. Israel will actually be doing Palestinians and the rest of us a favour when they eradicate Hamas from the face of the Earth. Its unfortunate that Palestinians will die as a consequence, but unavoidable. Many will die if Hamas remains in power and continues to use the people of the Strip in its struggle to eradicate Israel and Israelis/Jews from the face of the Earth. Israel is a colonial state that was established after a Holocaust that was perpetrated by Europeans. After what happened, it was inevitable that Jews would seek to establish their own state, and unfortunately it was the Palestinians who paid the price. You would do well to remember this and other basic facts before sounding off with your 'cut and paste' Leftist diatribes. I find them hard to tolerate at the best of times, but especially so after terrorist attacks that included the murder and mutilation of innocent civilians. Incidentally, it would be nice to see the club arrange some sort of commemoration for the victims of the terrorist attack before the next game. This isn't endorsing Israel or what it is currently doing in the Gaza Strip. It is a basic human obligation and decency that so many, including you and the demonstrators who openly celebrated the murder of innocent civilians, have failed to fulfil. Oh dear. "You would do well to remember this and other basic facts before sounding off with your 'cut and paste' Leftist diatribes. I find them hard to tolerate at the best of times, but especially so after terrorist attacks that included the murder and mutilation of innocent civilians." Not sure it is wise or worthy to be using such language when innocent people, on both sides of this terrible situation, are being killed. I think, in addition, you need to go a bit further back than 1948. 1917 to be exact and the Balfour Declaration, the defeat of the Turks and the subsequent carve up of the lands they controlled (known as Mesopotamia) by us (UK) and the French into defined territories we now know as Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine (Israel). This terrible situation did not evolve out of thin air and our finger prints are on it. |
|
|
|
Post by rideintothesun on Oct 16, 2023 18:13:41 GMT
I don't think there is much chance of Israel living peacefully alongside Hamas after their grotesque barbarism. Israel will actually be doing Palestinians and the rest of us a favour when they eradicate Hamas from the face of the Earth. Its unfortunate that Palestinians will die as a consequence, but unavoidable. Many will die if Hamas remains in power and continues to use the people of the Strip in its struggle to eradicate Israel and Israelis/Jews from the face of the Earth. Israel is a colonial state that was established after a Holocaust that was perpetrated by Europeans. After what happened, it was inevitable that Jews would seek to establish their own state, and unfortunately it was the Palestinians who paid the price. You would do well to remember this and other basic facts before sounding off with your 'cut and paste' Leftist diatribes. I find them hard to tolerate at the best of times, but especially so after terrorist attacks that included the murder and mutilation of innocent civilians. Incidentally, it would be nice to see the club arrange some sort of commemoration for the victims of the terrorist attack before the next game. This isn't endorsing Israel or what it is currently doing in the Gaza Strip. It is a basic human obligation and decency that so many, including you and the demonstrators who openly celebrated the murder of innocent civilians, have failed to fulfil. Oh dear. "You would do well to remember this and other basic facts before sounding off with your 'cut and paste' Leftist diatribes. I find them hard to tolerate at the best of times, but especially so after terrorist attacks that included the murder and mutilation of innocent civilians." Not sure it is wise or worthy to be using such language when innocent people, on both sides of this terrible situation, are being killed. I think, in addition, you need to go a bit further back than 1948. 1917 to be exact and the Balfour Declaration, the defeat of the Turks and the subsequent carve up of the lands they controlled (known as Mesopotamia) by us (UK) and the French into defined territories we now know as Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine (Israel). This terrible situation did not evolve out of thin air and our finger prints are on it. I make no apologies for being confrontational or abrasive at a time when pro-Palestinian protestors are openly chanting 'g*s the Jews' in Australia, stars of David are being painted on Jewish homes in Berlin and Jewish schools have to close because of threats by extremists. But instead of keeping a dignified silence until the bodies of dead Israelis have been buried, the pro-Palestine mob viewed this as an opportunity to virtually dance on the graves of those murdered and abducted by Hamas. People employed in British universities, the BBC and other British institutions openly celebrated the deaths of Israelis and mocked the victims. Wake up. You will note that I refer to Israel as a 'colonial state' - 'colonial' quite clearly implies the period from the 1917 Balfour Declaration up until the British withdrawal and the establishment of Israel. I also refer to the establishment of the state of Israel as a inevitable consequence of European anti-Semitism that led to the Holocaust, so I quite clearly acknowledge that our 'fingerprints are on it'. |
|
|
|
Post by rideintothesun on Oct 16, 2023 18:15:20 GMT
I'm not sure Israel's leaders will be reading the BRFC Independent Forum in search of wise counsel as to what they should do in the aftermath of terrorist attacks that killed thousands of innocent civilians, but could you please tell the rest of us what you think they should do instead of taking military action against those responsible? Would you like Israelis and Gazans to join hands and sing John Lennon's 'Imagine'? Unfortunately past experience suggests that the latter are more likely to call for the destruction of the 'Zionist entity' and the murder of its inhabitants. I'm not sure anything can be done, RITS. Especially with reprisals. I like that, 'Imagine'....a dreamer nice idea. What I find a bit unnerving is: As this appears to be a religious conflict, no religion is calling (publicly) for peace or peaceful solutions. Not one head of religion appears to publicly plea for this (apologies if it's out there, I must have missed it). Its not a religious conflict. It is a conflict between two competing nationalisms, and religion is very much in the background. Like Northern Ireland, which was only superficially a 'religious conflict'. |
|
|
|
Post by rideintothesun on Oct 16, 2023 18:20:03 GMT
I am a supporter of the struggle of the Palestinian people for their occupied homelands, and I am an opponent of Israeli expansionism and annexation of Jerusalem. The recent crimes of the Iran-funded Islmanist rape and death cult have nothing to do with that, and I condemn them absolutely, and understand Israeli retaliation against Hamas's Gaza. The whole situation is truly awful. 'Retaliation' seems somehow insufficient, as this implies that Hamas will still exist once this is all over. After what Hamas have done, they cannot be permitted to continue to exist and must be eradicated in precisely the same way as ISIS. |
|
|
|
Post by rideintothesun on Oct 16, 2023 18:29:34 GMT
Just for a bit of balance and background "More than 200 Palestinians and nearly 30 Israelis have been killed so far this year in the occupied West Bank and Israel – a level of violence surpassing last year’s entire death toll and the highest number of fatalities since 2005, the United Nations Middle East envoy has said." "Tor Wennesland, UN special coordinator for the Middle East peace process, told the UN Security Council on Monday that escalating violence is being fuelled by growing despair about the future among Palestinians and a lack of progress towards achieving an independent state." And this, which rarely gets reported *He pointed to the unabated expansion of illegal Israeli settlements, Israel’s demolition of Palestinian homes, operations by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank areas under Palestinian administrative and police control, and attacks by Israeli settlers on Palestinian villages." That was taken from a UN report of August this year The violence that occurred in southern Israel was sadistic and involved unimaginable cruelty and violence that was inflicted on innocent civilians. The US government observed that it was reminiscent of the worst IS atrocities in Syria and Iraq. You are being incredibly naïve if you think this can be understood in rational terms. Do you honestly Hamas terrorists would be kinder and nicer if Israel withdrew, removed the settlements and agreed to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank? |
|
|
|
Post by rideintothesun on Oct 16, 2023 18:38:25 GMT
I think we both know that the only solution that will achieve any chance of peace is to revert to the borders that existed pre 1967 war. The report I copied was referring to acts that have occurred within those territories appropriated. As much as this is a repulsive act of terrorism by Hamas we shouldn't lose sight of the plight of Palestinians in general and the fact that retribution taken by the Israelis will impact those Palestinians the most. It is an endless cycle of the killing of innocents caused by lunatic administration's in Gaza and the current fruit cakes running Israel in Tel Aviv. Shouting won't help change that. If the Israelis were to retreat to the pre 1967 borders it will not stop! I know that and you also know that, so stop trying to use it as a justification for the murder of innocent people. You only have to read the Hamas Charter to understand this. Do you have a comment on the bit regarding "peace initiatives" in the Hamas Charter? Which part of "there cannot be peace until all of the Jews are dead" don't you understand? What precisely do you think Hamas is? A liberation organization? No, it would happily kill every Israeli inside Israel and every Jew outside of it. You don't need to take my word for it, as its recent actions speak for themselves. Abducting an elderly with dementia, decapitating babies and killing children. It is a sick, vile organization. You are aware of the previous attacks on Israeli civilians, both within and outside the 1967 Armistice lines (not 'borders')? Presumably you are also aware of the fact that the PLO carried out indiscriminate attacks (albeit on a much smaller scale) that killed innocent civilians. Hamas does not recognise Israel as a state and so the 1967 'borders' are irrelevant. It has, and will continue to, carry out terrorist attacks within Israel. Wake up. |
|
|
|
Post by Nobbygas on Oct 17, 2023 8:06:07 GMT
I am a supporter of the struggle of the Palestinian people for their occupied homelands, and I am an opponent of Israeli expansionism and annexation of Jerusalem. The recent crimes of the Iran-funded Islmanist rape and death cult have nothing to do with that, and I condemn them absolutely, and understand Israeli retaliation against Hamas's Gaza. The whole situation is truly awful. 'Retaliation' seems somehow insufficient, as this implies that Hamas will still exist once this is all over. After what Hamas have done, they cannot be permitted to continue to exist and must be eradicated in precisely the same way as ISIS. I agree. Those who argue like Oldie are just perpetuating the violence. It will continue as long as Hamas exists. Israel has decided to end Hamas. It will be hard, at times painful and not a pleasant task, but it has to be done. The short term pain has to happen for long term peace. The bigger picture also demands that Iran be sorted out. |
|
|
|
Post by Nobbygas on Oct 17, 2023 8:12:48 GMT
Just for a bit of balance and background "More than 200 Palestinians and nearly 30 Israelis have been killed so far this year in the occupied West Bank and Israel – a level of violence surpassing last year’s entire death toll and the highest number of fatalities since 2005, the United Nations Middle East envoy has said." "Tor Wennesland, UN special coordinator for the Middle East peace process, told the UN Security Council on Monday that escalating violence is being fuelled by growing despair about the future among Palestinians and a lack of progress towards achieving an independent state." And this, which rarely gets reported *He pointed to the unabated expansion of illegal Israeli settlements, Israel’s demolition of Palestinian homes, operations by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank areas under Palestinian administrative and police control, and attacks by Israeli settlers on Palestinian villages." That was taken from a UN report of August this year The violence that occurred in southern Israel was sadistic and involved unimaginable cruelty and violence that was inflicted on innocent civilians. The US government observed that it was reminiscent of the worst IS atrocities in Syria and Iraq. You are being incredibly naïve if you think this can be understood in rational terms. Do you honestly Hamas terrorists would be kinder and nicer if Israel withdrew, removed the settlements and agreed to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank? Israel did forcibly remove it's own people from Gaza and handed it all back to the Palestinians. Hamas just saw that as weakness by the Israelis and that their violence had forced Israel to do this, therefore, more violence will extract more concessions! I refer everyone, once again, to Article 13 in the Hamas Charter:- "Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement: ------------------------------------------- '[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)" |
|
|
|
Post by Nobbygas on Oct 17, 2023 8:36:50 GMT
If the Israelis were to retreat to the pre 1967 borders it will not stop! I know that and you also know that, so stop trying to use it as a justification for the murder of innocent people. You only have to read the Hamas Charter to understand this. Do you have a comment on the bit regarding "peace initiatives" in the Hamas Charter? Which part of "there cannot be peace until all of the Jews are dead" don't you understand? What precisely do you think Hamas is? A liberation organization? No, it would happily kill every Israeli inside Israel and every Jew outside of it. You don't need to take my word for it, as its recent actions speak for themselves. Abducting an elderly with dementia, decapitating babies and killing children. It is a sick, vile organization. You are aware of the previous attacks on Israeli civilians, both within and outside the 1967 Armistice lines (not 'borders')? Presumably you are also aware of the fact that the PLO carried out indiscriminate attacks (albeit on a much smaller scale) that killed innocent civilians. Hamas does not recognise Israel as a state and so the 1967 'borders' are irrelevant. It has, and will continue to, carry out terrorist attacks within Israel. Wake up. Pre 1967. So Gaza belongs to Egypt??? |
|
oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
|
Post by oldie on Oct 17, 2023 9:34:57 GMT
What precisely do you think Hamas is? A liberation organization? No, it would happily kill every Israeli inside Israel and every Jew outside of it. You don't need to take my word for it, as its recent actions speak for themselves. Abducting an elderly with dementia, decapitating babies and killing children. It is a sick, vile organization. You are aware of the previous attacks on Israeli civilians, both within and outside the 1967 Armistice lines (not 'borders')? Presumably you are also aware of the fact that the PLO carried out indiscriminate attacks (albeit on a much smaller scale) that killed innocent civilians. Hamas does not recognise Israel as a state and so the 1967 'borders' are irrelevant. It has, and will continue to, carry out terrorist attacks within Israel. Wake up. Pre 1967. So Gaza belongs to Egypt??? Strangely, pretty much. |
|
|
|
Post by Nobbygas on Oct 17, 2023 9:42:24 GMT
Pre 1967. So Gaza belongs to Egypt??? Strangely, pretty much. I think the Egyptians would provide a two word response with the second word being 'off' ! |
|
oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
|
Post by oldie on Oct 17, 2023 9:46:21 GMT
The violence that occurred in southern Israel was sadistic and involved unimaginable cruelty and violence that was inflicted on innocent civilians. The US government observed that it was reminiscent of the worst IS atrocities in Syria and Iraq. You are being incredibly naïve if you think this can be understood in rational terms. Do you honestly Hamas terrorists would be kinder and nicer if Israel withdrew, removed the settlements and agreed to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank? Israel did forcibly remove it's own people from Gaza and handed it all back to the Palestinians. Hamas just saw that as weakness by the Israelis and that their violence had forced Israel to do this, therefore, more violence will extract more concessions! I refer everyone, once again, to Article 13 in the Hamas Charter:- "Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement: ------------------------------------------- '[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)" I don't think anyone, not any sane person, believes that groups like HAMAS are ones that the Israelis can negotiate with. But we must keep in mind they, these loonies, only came to power in 2007, born of the frustration at the PLO/Fattah achieving little or no progress in resolving the issues faced by Palestinians and the displaced refugees in the region. All the while the Israelis continued to expand their settlements and further displace Palestinians. At the same time enforcing a blockade on GAZA. We have to see this in the round, it was almost inevitable that a desperate people would end up in the embrace of lunatics whilst the world sat back and watched. Those seeking bloody revenge will only end up perpetuating this terrible cycle of "kill and be killed". |
|
oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,516
|
Post by oldie on Oct 17, 2023 9:46:51 GMT
I think the Egyptians would provide a two word response with the second word being 'off' ! Quite probably |
|
trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,543
|
Post by trymer on Oct 17, 2023 19:14:17 GMT
BBC reporting a hospital bombed in Gaza and hundreds killed.
Although there have been many wars and invasions over there I dont ever remember them causing as many demonstrations and violence in Europe as this present fighting has,I do wonder if this goes on for long and causes thousands of deaths whether the next Intifada will be on European streets.
|
|
