oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,555
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Post by oldie on Sept 7, 2023 17:21:53 GMT
As per the other Thread "Who's running this outfit?". Until we get a clearer indication of who is actually responsible for making key decisions and in which key areas, We are going to get more of this muddled thinking and cock ups. MacAnthony said he had been told the new owner wanted to make some kind of statement of intent with this signing which could only have come from WAQ, JB, EJ or TG. But from the way the negotiations were conducted I do wonder if that is somewhat misleading and whether Hussain actually sanctioned the initial £300K bid and perhaps a two year contract but then the enthusiasm of the others involved got the better of them and it was they who agreed to ratchet it up first to £500K and then to £ 800K with a three year contract. In money terms the implications of that would be for Rovers, in two days, to have gone from making a total commitment of about £800K to nearly doubling that to a commitment of about £ 1.55 million. This would mean absolutely nothing to those without any sort of financial discipline who are used to spending in an uncontrolled way but would mean a great deal to someone who is experienced in building businesses through detailed planning and careful financial calculation. All true. But I do wonder if the term "building businesses" is an oxymoron when it comes to football clubs
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Post by swissgas on Sept 7, 2023 17:32:51 GMT
MacAnthony said he had been told the new owner wanted to make some kind of statement of intent with this signing which could only have come from WAQ, JB, EJ or TG. But from the way the negotiations were conducted I do wonder if that is somewhat misleading and whether Hussain actually sanctioned the initial £300K bid and perhaps a two year contract but then the enthusiasm of the others involved got the better of them and it was they who agreed to ratchet it up first to £500K and then to £ 800K with a three year contract. In money terms the implications of that would be for Rovers, in two days, to have gone from making a total commitment of about £800K to nearly doubling that to a commitment of about £ 1.55 million. This would mean absolutely nothing to those without any sort of financial discipline who are used to spending in an uncontrolled way but would mean a great deal to someone who is experienced in building businesses through detailed planning and careful financial calculation. All true. But I do wonder if the term "building businesses" is an oxymoron when it comes to football clubs Yes, it certainly can be, but I'm hoping the new owner is taking top quality independent advice on how to operate a football business successfully and is ready to bring in experienced new people rather than relying on the previous regime. For obvious reasons
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,555
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Post by oldie on Sept 7, 2023 17:39:00 GMT
All true. But I do wonder if the term "building businesses" is an oxymoron when it comes to football clubs Yes, it certainly can be, but I'm hoping the new owner is taking top quality independent advice on how to operate a football business successfully and is ready to bring in experienced new people rather than relying on the previous regime. For obvious reasons If that had happened quickly,after being involved due diligence since the early part of this year, I might have agreed with your "hope". But hasn't. Just another cock up..
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Sept 7, 2023 17:43:21 GMT
I the podcast was an interesting listen, especially Liz Elsom the Peterborough secretary/ops person when it came to paperwork, systems and how the secretaries across clubs all interact.
Really highlighted what we have obviously lost with David Sams going, to have a dedicated, efficient person in that role
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 7, 2023 17:46:34 GMT
It's a right kerfuffle!
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Post by swissgas on Sept 7, 2023 18:23:44 GMT
Yes, it certainly can be, but I'm hoping the new owner is taking top quality independent advice on how to operate a football business successfully and is ready to bring in experienced new people rather than relying on the previous regime. For obvious reasons If that had happened quickly,after being involved due diligence since the early part of this year, I might have agreed with your "hope". But hasn't. Just another cock up.. I should have said "still hoping" because I agree it would be reasonable to expect a lot more notice of intent if not action from the new owner by now.
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Post by swissgas on Sept 7, 2023 18:36:57 GMT
I the podcast was an interesting listen, especially Liz Elsom the Peterborough secretary/ops person when it came to paperwork, systems and how the secretaries across clubs all interact. Really highlighted what we have obviously lost with David Sams going, to have a dedicated, efficient person in that role As I understood it there was some sort of disagreement between Eddy Jennings and David Sams which resulted in his dismissal. A trade union quickly became involved and were able to show that the club had acted improperly with the result that compensation had to be paid. I post a lot about lack of financial discipline but there seems to be a lack of any kind discipline at the club. Apparently David Sams is not the only employee who had to be compensated due to the club acting improperly on employment matters and the attitude seems to be "we do what we like and if it costs us who cares". You only have to look at what is happening with the South Stand to see another example of this and the training ground is yet another with legally binding planning conditions set by the council seemingly being completely ignored.
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Post by droitwichgas on Sept 7, 2023 19:04:11 GMT
I assume this is the Liverpool Mafia's way of doing things, as it only seems like a recent development?
I wonder what the new co-owners think about the goings on at Rovers as surely they can't be totally blind to the issues? If I had a good reputation as a company owner in my own country then I wouldn't want Rovers tainting my reputation overseas.
How they apparently almost convinced the Al-Saeed's to part with £1m for JCH is beyond me.
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Post by irenestoyboy on Sept 7, 2023 19:41:51 GMT
Listening to the podcast I picked out two key sentences. " Wael, the previous owner, is a lovely guy" " The new owner wants value for money" Could it be that Wael was trying to please everyone and got carried away on a wave of emotion until Hussain stepped in and told Tom not to complete the deal ? I’m not defending Wael, Tom or the Al-Saeeds here but a bit of evidence from that pod cast says that probably wasn’t the case. DMAC had Liz prepare all the paperwork and reminded us about the 15 min extension. Both make the claim that according to EFL system the extension was requested at 23:01 and the registration lodged at 23:17 missing both deadlines. They can see all of that information themselves. As Liz alludes, it’s a bit of graft uploading that document, why would we lodge an extension and all the paperwork if we had no intention of completing the deal? I put it down to the acting club sec and our CEO making an almighty fumble rather than double crossing anyone intentionally or getting cold feet on the deal.
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Post by irenestoyboy on Sept 7, 2023 19:43:29 GMT
I the podcast was an interesting listen, especially Liz Elsom the Peterborough secretary/ops person when it came to paperwork, systems and how the secretaries across clubs all interact. Really highlighted what we have obviously lost with David Sams going, to have a dedicated, efficient person in that role As I understood it there was some sort of disagreement between Eddy Jennings and David Sams which resulted in his dismissal. A trade union quickly became involved and were able to show that the club had acted improperly with the result that compensation had to be paid. I post a lot about lack of financial discipline but there seems to be a lack of any kind discipline at the club. Apparently David Sams is not the only employee who had to be compensated due to the club acting improperly on employment matters and the attitude seems to be "we do what we like and if it costs us who cares". You only have to look at what is happening with the South Stand to see another example of this and the training ground is yet another with legally binding planning conditions set by the council seemingly being completely ignored. I also think it’s telling how Iain Patterson, a lifelong gashead who was head of catering has gone full metal jacket towards the club on Twitter on various subjects. Something very personal there too.
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Post by droitwichgas on Sept 7, 2023 19:46:28 GMT
Listening to the podcast I picked out two key sentences. " Wael, the previous owner, is a lovely guy" " The new owner wants value for money" Could it be that Wael was trying to please everyone and got carried away on a wave of emotion until Hussain stepped in and told Tom not to complete the deal ? I’m not defending Wael, Tom or the Al-Saeeds here but a bit of evidence from that pod cast says that probably wasn’t the case. DMAC had Liz prepare all the paperwork and reminded us about the 15 min extension. Both make the claim that according to EFL system the extension was requested at 23:01 and the registration lodged at 23:17 missing both deadlines. They can see all of that information themselves. As Liz alludes, it’s a bit of graft uploading that document, why would we lodge an extension and all the paperwork if we had no intention of completing the deal? I put it down to the acting club sec and our CEO making an almighty fumble rather than double crossing anyone intentionally or getting cold feet on the deal. The club had done the same process a dozen times already, presumably without any issues, so it's not like they didn't know the process, if they were struggling to complete the form why didn't they ask "Liz" for some assistance/guidance over the phone? As far as the extension I thought it was clear we never even asked for one?
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Post by irenestoyboy on Sept 7, 2023 20:00:55 GMT
I’m not defending Wael, Tom or the Al-Saeeds here but a bit of evidence from that pod cast says that probably wasn’t the case. DMAC had Liz prepare all the paperwork and reminded us about the 15 min extension. Both make the claim that according to EFL system the extension was requested at 23:01 and the registration lodged at 23:17 missing both deadlines. They can see all of that information themselves. As Liz alludes, it’s a bit of graft uploading that document, why would we lodge an extension and all the paperwork if we had no intention of completing the deal? I put it down to the acting club sec and our CEO making an almighty fumble rather than double crossing anyone intentionally or getting cold feet on the deal. The club had done the same process a dozen times already, presumably without any issues, so it's not like they didn't know the process, if they were struggling to complete the form why didn't they ask "Liz" for some assistance/guidance over the phone? As far as the extension I thought it was clear we never even asked for one? I’ll listen to the pod again but I’m sure one of them mentioned the 23:01 and 23:17 submissions and made the comment “so they missed both deadlines”. It couldn’t sound more Bristol Rovers if it tried.
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Post by swissgas on Sept 7, 2023 20:31:53 GMT
Listening to the podcast I picked out two key sentences. " Wael, the previous owner, is a lovely guy" " The new owner wants value for money" Could it be that Wael was trying to please everyone and got carried away on a wave of emotion until Hussain stepped in and told Tom not to complete the deal ? I’m not defending Wael, Tom or the Al-Saeeds here but a bit of evidence from that pod cast says that probably wasn’t the case. DMAC had Liz prepare all the paperwork and reminded us about the 15 min extension. Both make the claim that according to EFL system the extension was requested at 23:01 and the registration lodged at 23:17 missing both deadlines. They can see all of that information themselves. As Liz alludes, it’s a bit of graft uploading that document, why would we lodge an extension and all the paperwork if we had no intention of completing the deal? I put it down to the acting club sec and our CEO making an almighty fumble rather than double crossing anyone intentionally or getting cold feet on the deal. Yes, I also heard the timescales which Liz Elsom gave and Darragh MacAnthony say he "felt for the lady who was doing the paperwork at the Bristol end" so the Peterborough people definitely do think it was simply a case of Rovers staff being too slow in filing the documents. But isn't it just a little bit suspicious to miss the extension deadline and then to miss the registration deadline by 17 minutes ? If you know for sure you've missed a very precise deadline what purpose does it serve to submit the paperwork late once let alone do it again for a second time ? The only reason I can think of would be to attempt to demonstrate to others that you had tried to complete the deal. Many Gasheads are saying that whatever the reason the deal didn't go through we should move on and learn from the experience but how many times have we heard that before ? The fact is we never learn we merely retreat back into the cosy world where things carry on just as before and I think many Gasheads are now concerned that the new owner may not have realised the enormity of the task he faces. If it's true that we were about to spend about £1.5 million on giving JCH a three year deal how does that square with what Hussain Al Saeed said three weeks ago ? There was no ambiguity in that interview because he made it clear his aim was not to give the manager more money to spend but instead to develop the team and infrastructure side by side because he didn't want to "rush" into trying to achieve promotion. You seem much more open minded these last few weeks so what do you think is going on ? Edit. extension deadline missed by 1 minute
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,555
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Post by oldie on Sept 7, 2023 20:32:28 GMT
I the podcast was an interesting listen, especially Liz Elsom the Peterborough secretary/ops person when it came to paperwork, systems and how the secretaries across clubs all interact. Really highlighted what we have obviously lost with David Sams going, to have a dedicated, efficient person in that role As I understood it there was some sort of disagreement between Eddy Jennings and David Sams which resulted in his dismissal. A trade union quickly became involved and were able to show that the club had acted improperly with the result that compensation had to be paid. I post a lot about lack of financial discipline but there seems to be a lack of any kind discipline at the club. Apparently David Sams is not the only employee who had to be compensated due to the club acting improperly on employment matters and the attitude seems to be "we do what we like and if it costs us who cares". You only have to look at what is happening with the South Stand to see another example of this and the training ground is yet another with legally binding planning conditions set by the council seemingly being completely ignored. My god. It's as bad as that? If all this is true (I have no reason to disbelieve you Swiss) then this club is hanging by a thread.
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Post by irenestoyboy on Sept 7, 2023 21:26:15 GMT
I’m not defending Wael, Tom or the Al-Saeeds here but a bit of evidence from that pod cast says that probably wasn’t the case. DMAC had Liz prepare all the paperwork and reminded us about the 15 min extension. Both make the claim that according to EFL system the extension was requested at 23:01 and the registration lodged at 23:17 missing both deadlines. They can see all of that information themselves. As Liz alludes, it’s a bit of graft uploading that document, why would we lodge an extension and all the paperwork if we had no intention of completing the deal? I put it down to the acting club sec and our CEO making an almighty fumble rather than double crossing anyone intentionally or getting cold feet on the deal. Yes, I also heard the timescales which Liz Elsom gave and Darragh MacAnthony say he "felt for the lady who was doing the paperwork at the Bristol end" so the Peterborough people definitely do think it was simply a case of Rovers staff being too slow in filing the documents. But isn't it just a little bit suspicious to miss the extension deadline and then to miss the registration deadline by 17 minutes ? If you know for sure you've missed a very precise deadline what purpose does it serve to submit the paperwork late once let alone do it again for a second time ? The only reason I can think of would be to attempt to demonstrate to others that you had tried to complete the deal. Many Gasheads are saying that whatever the reason the deal didn't go through we should move on and learn from the experience but how many times have we heard that before ? The fact is we never learn we merely retreat back into the cosy world where things carry on just as before and I think many Gasheads are now concerned that the new owner may not have realised the enormity of the task he faces. If it's true that we were about to spend about £1.5 million on giving JCH a three year deal how does that square with what Hussain Al Saeed said three weeks ago ? There was no ambiguity in that interview because he made it clear his aim was not to give the manager more money to spend but instead to develop the team and infrastructure side by side because he didn't want to "rush" into trying to achieve promotion. You seem much more open minded these last few weeks so what do you think is going on ? Edit. extension deadline missed by 1 minute The only other reason was to appeal the following day. I don’t think anyone is being deliberately disingenuous, it doesn’t help anyone and they would gain more respect and kudos for saying they pulled the plug due to X reasons. Would we really taxi JCH all the way up as well? What would be the point in that? I know you hold members of the board in complete disdain Swiss and are very suspicious of them but I can’t help but think you’re barking up the wrong tree here. Above anything else, no one wants to look inept and incompetent and by the sound of it, that’s exactly how we sounded when DMac and Liz were describing the saga and not having a club secretary, I would imagine when the pressure was on, we crumbled.
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keygas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 178
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Post by keygas on Sept 7, 2023 21:31:26 GMT
I the podcast was an interesting listen, especially Liz Elsom the Peterborough secretary/ops person when it came to paperwork, systems and how the secretaries across clubs all interact. Really highlighted what we have obviously lost with David Sams going, to have a dedicated, efficient person in that role Agree, Liz Elsom certainly knows her role as a football secretary, perhaps we should try & sign her, disappointed with the amount of times the Peterborough owner used the F word especially when he still kept using it when he was joined by Liz on the podcast.
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Post by swissgas on Sept 7, 2023 23:10:04 GMT
Yes, I also heard the timescales which Liz Elsom gave and Darragh MacAnthony say he "felt for the lady who was doing the paperwork at the Bristol end" so the Peterborough people definitely do think it was simply a case of Rovers staff being too slow in filing the documents. But isn't it just a little bit suspicious to miss the extension deadline and then to miss the registration deadline by 17 minutes ? If you know for sure you've missed a very precise deadline what purpose does it serve to submit the paperwork late once let alone do it again for a second time ? The only reason I can think of would be to attempt to demonstrate to others that you had tried to complete the deal. Many Gasheads are saying that whatever the reason the deal didn't go through we should move on and learn from the experience but how many times have we heard that before ? The fact is we never learn we merely retreat back into the cosy world where things carry on just as before and I think many Gasheads are now concerned that the new owner may not have realised the enormity of the task he faces. If it's true that we were about to spend about £1.5 million on giving JCH a three year deal how does that square with what Hussain Al Saeed said three weeks ago ? There was no ambiguity in that interview because he made it clear his aim was not to give the manager more money to spend but instead to develop the team and infrastructure side by side because he didn't want to "rush" into trying to achieve promotion. You seem much more open minded these last few weeks so what do you think is going on ? Edit. extension deadline missed by 1 minute The only other reason was to appeal the following day. I don’t think anyone is being deliberately disingenuous, it doesn’t help anyone and they would gain more respect and kudos for saying they pulled the plug due to X reasons. Would we really taxi JCH all the way up as well? What would be the point in that? I know you hold members of the board in complete disdain Swiss and are very suspicious of them but I can’t help but think you’re barking up the wrong tree here. Above anything else, no one wants to look inept and incompetent and by the sound of it, that’s exactly how we sounded when DMac and Liz were describing the saga and not having a club secretary, I would imagine when the pressure was on, we crumbled. The board comprises four people but we know that only two matter when it comes to decision making. Disdain is not the word I would use nor am I suspicious of their motives but I do believe they have proven themselves to be incompetent. And it may be that they are sufficiently incompetent to think they could do a £1.5 million value deal for JCH without getting the green light from the majority owner. So, IMO, the possibility remains that the plug was deliberately pulled at the last minute. But what do you think of the situation with the new owners ? With the benefit of a further three weeks experience at Rovers do you think Hussain has changed his mind and is now fully behind Wael & Joey’s plan to “go for it” with £800K or more sitting in the war chest ready for a January spending spree ? Or do you think they have been working hard behind the scenes and will shortly announce major changes to the way the club is managed ?
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Post by swissgas on Sept 7, 2023 23:15:20 GMT
I the podcast was an interesting listen, especially Liz Elsom the Peterborough secretary/ops person when it came to paperwork, systems and how the secretaries across clubs all interact. Really highlighted what we have obviously lost with David Sams going, to have a dedicated, efficient person in that role Agree, Liz Elsom certainly knows her role as a football secretary, perhaps we should try & sign her, disappointed with the amount of times the Peterborough owner used the F word especially when he still kept using it when he was joined by Liz on the podcast. Agree with you about the swearing although Liz used a few choice words herself. I just think the frequency with which Darragh uses the F word means it loses any effect that may have been intended. But it’s good to hear two football people with the confidence to speak boldly and with obvious passion.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,538
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Post by TaiwanGas on Sept 8, 2023 0:11:06 GMT
Whoever was responsible for the missed deadline won’t be on Barton’s Christmas card list this year. I fully expect the outcome of the missed transfer to played out in the Month’s to come, and not on the pitch.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 8, 2023 5:21:11 GMT
I the podcast was an interesting listen, especially Liz Elsom the Peterborough secretary/ops person when it came to paperwork, systems and how the secretaries across clubs all interact. Really highlighted what we have obviously lost with David Sams going, to have a dedicated, efficient person in that role As I understood it there was some sort of disagreement between Eddy Jennings and David Sams which resulted in his dismissal. A trade union quickly became involved and were able to show that the club had acted improperly with the result that compensation had to be paid. I post a lot about lack of financial discipline but there seems to be a lack of any kind discipline at the club. Apparently David Sams is not the only employee who had to be compensated due to the club acting improperly on employment matters and the attitude seems to be "we do what we like and if it costs us who cares". You only have to look at what is happening with the South Stand to see another example of this and the training ground is yet another with legally binding planning conditions set by the council seemingly being completely ignored. Probably the most succinct, true and at same time sad post this last year. The club I loved might have been ragbag, but there was a homely charm around the place and a feeling we're in this together. Not now it appears money, attendance figures and marketing are more important, and they can't even get that right at times!
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