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Post by baselswh on Jul 23, 2024 21:24:02 GMT
Glad we agree a referendum is a good and democratic idea.Yes,of course it would be made 100% clear what was being voted for. I think our attitude would be 'enough is enough',our Royal Navy will be returning these people back to France. The question ought to be,what are they going to do about it? No, Bas. It won't do what you think it will do and other international commitments will prevent it. You will not see RN vessels returning migrants to France in the way you envisage. Please stop being naive and believing a snake oil salesman. I think there's a naivety about your apparent tactic of doing basically nothing. Eg, Rep Ireland population is approximately 5,300,000.The Irish are now beginning to realise they are on a trajectory that will see them become a minority in Ireland. That's an invasion. This wilful destruction of the nation state is a massive mistake. Let's have a referendum,let Britons decide on this ECHR issue. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979 
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 23, 2024 21:38:55 GMT
Throwing out the baby with the bathwater springs to mind. There are better ways than this. Leave ECHR. Stop immigration. Turn back illegals. Intergrate the immigrants we have, eg begin discussions on a reformation within 'UK Islam' to get rid of the barbaric 7th century stuff. Once achieved allow more immigration, but we control how many and which ones, eg skilled workers welcomed. That sort of plan and strategy. Leave the ECHR, a court which we [that is Great Britain] laid the foundations of, were primary members of, wrote most of its structure, and which protects your human rights against the United Kingdom Government from stripping you of them. It is recognised by sovereign countries and only the pariah states of Belarus and Russia are outside. Are you really saying you want to allow the Government of the UK to be considered outside of International Law? Secondly to return the boats you need agreements with other sovereign states such as France and Ireland our neighbours. Without that you could not turn back the boats. The UN has already stated that in most cases the UK would be outside international law and that might negate other international agreements. Effectively we would become a pariah, untrustworthy state, unwilling to recognise our international obligations and agreements. Is that what you believe the UK should become? Labour have already been having discussions with the EU and its individual member states to try to build bridges broken by the previous Government who were scared rigid to be seen to be dealing with the EU in case it enraged the Brexiteers. At least they are trying to be constructive. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 23, 2024 21:42:22 GMT
Let them come,give them no money,no accomadation,no papers,spray them with blue indelible dye and let them go...dont let them sleep rough just keep moving them on,anyone employing them gets their business shut down...within a month there wont be any more risking their lives to come here. Pin yellow stars on them as well, and round them up in a concentration camp, very similar..... |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 23, 2024 21:45:31 GMT
So negotiations have already happened and resulted in us giving France lots of cash, but your negotiations will get better results? What would you offer to get that better deal? Edit: Referendum? Only if I can see what the wording we will replace it with. I'm not going to give carte blanche to a politician. Glad we agree a referendum is a good and democratic idea.Yes,of course it would be made 100% clear what was being voted for. I think our attitude would be 'enough is enough',our Royal Navy will be returning these people back to France. The question ought to be,what are they going to do about it? And if having broken international law, what if the French don't allow the RN into their waters, should we blast the blighters out of the waters..... |
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Post by baselswh on Jul 23, 2024 21:48:18 GMT
Leave ECHR. Stop immigration. Turn back illegals. Intergrate the immigrants we have, eg begin discussions on a reformation within 'UK Islam' to get rid of the barbaric 7th century stuff. Once achieved allow more immigration, but we control how many and which ones, eg skilled workers welcomed. That sort of plan and strategy. Leave the ECHR, a court which we [that is Great Britain] laid the foundations of, were primary members of, wrote most of its structure, and which protects your human rights against the United Kingdom Government from stripping you of them. It is recognised by sovereign countries and only the pariah states of Belarus and Russia are outside. Are you really saying you want to allow the Government of the UK to be considered outside of International Law? Secondly to return the boats you need agreements with other sovereign states such as France and Ireland our neighbours. Without that you could not turn back the boats. The UN has already stated that in most cases the UK would be outside international law and that might negate other international agreements. Effectively we would become a pariah, untrustworthy state, unwilling to recognise our international obligations and agreements. Is that what you believe the UK should become? Labour have already been having discussions with the EU and its individual member states to try to build bridges broken by the previous Government who were scared rigid to be seen to be dealing with the EU in case it enraged the Brexiteers. At least they are trying to be constructive. The talks with EU countries will do zero to stop the invasion of GB. They failed to stop drugs getting here because there is too much money to be made and it's the same with the people transporters. Leave ECHR. Move Royal Navy in. It would stop the invasion. Thing is,globalist Labour and Conservative don't want to stop it. |
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Post by baldrick on Jul 23, 2024 21:53:19 GMT
No, Bas. It won't do what you think it will do and other international commitments will prevent it. You will not see RN vessels returning migrants to France in the way you envisage. Please stop being naive and believing a snake oil salesman. I think there's a naivety about your apparent tactic of doing basically nothing. Eg, Rep Ireland population is approximately 5,300,000.The Irish are now beginning to realise they are on a trajectory that will see them become a minority in Ireland. That's an invasion. This wilful destruction of the nation state is a massive mistake. Let's have a referendum,let Britons decide on this ECHR issue. I never said do nothing, stop making things up. |
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Post by baldrick on Jul 23, 2024 21:55:17 GMT
Leave the ECHR, a court which we [that is Great Britain] laid the foundations of, were primary members of, wrote most of its structure, and which protects your human rights against the United Kingdom Government from stripping you of them. It is recognised by sovereign countries and only the pariah states of Belarus and Russia are outside. Are you really saying you want to allow the Government of the UK to be considered outside of International Law? Secondly to return the boats you need agreements with other sovereign states such as France and Ireland our neighbours. Without that you could not turn back the boats. The UN has already stated that in most cases the UK would be outside international law and that might negate other international agreements. Effectively we would become a pariah, untrustworthy state, unwilling to recognise our international obligations and agreements. Is that what you believe the UK should become? Labour have already been having discussions with the EU and its individual member states to try to build bridges broken by the previous Government who were scared rigid to be seen to be dealing with the EU in case it enraged the Brexiteers. At least they are trying to be constructive. The talks with EU countries will do zero to stop the invasion of GB. They failed to stop drugs getting here because there is too much money to be made and it's the same with the people transporters. Leave ECHR. Move Royal Navy in. It would stop the invasion. Thing is,globalist Labour and Conservative don't want to stop it. The RN will not move in. What you are suggesting is illegal and impractical, even if we left the ECHR. |
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Post by baselswh on Jul 23, 2024 21:56:51 GMT
Glad we agree a referendum is a good and democratic idea.Yes,of course it would be made 100% clear what was being voted for. I think our attitude would be 'enough is enough',our Royal Navy will be returning these people back to France. The question ought to be,what are they going to do about it? And if having broken international law, what if the French don't allow the RN into their waters, should we blast the blighters out of the waters..... We are in a culture war. Then the threat of Islam. Angry citizens living in broken Britain etc. The French,allowing and actually encouraging this invasion of GB are the ones breaking international law. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 23, 2024 21:59:59 GMT
And if having broken international law, what if the French don't allow the RN into their waters, should we blast the blighters out of the waters..... We are in a culture war. Then the threat of Islam. Angry citizens living in broken Britain etc. The French,allowing and actually encouraging this invasion of GB are the ones breaking international law. Sweeping statements Bas. Apart from quoting Nigel Farage, what evidence do you have for this? And what convinces you that the French are the ones breaking international law? |
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Post by baselswh on Jul 23, 2024 22:05:05 GMT
I think there's a naivety about your apparent tactic of doing basically nothing. Eg, Rep Ireland population is approximately 5,300,000.The Irish are now beginning to realise they are on a trajectory that will see them become a minority in Ireland. That's an invasion. This wilful destruction of the nation state is a massive mistake. Let's have a referendum,let Britons decide on this ECHR issue. I never said do nothing, stop making things up. No,too busy asking me questions,looking for a 'gotcha ' moment on legal grounds, to offer any answers. You may be up on a few laws and the general red tape stuff,but a determined Government would soon sort this invasion out. I don't believe Labour will do any better than the Conservatives. |
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Post by baselswh on Jul 23, 2024 22:19:53 GMT
We are in a culture war. Then the threat of Islam. Angry citizens living in broken Britain etc. The French,allowing and actually encouraging this invasion of GB are the ones breaking international law. Sweeping statements Bas. Apart from quoting Nigel Farage, what evidence do you have for this? And what convinces you that the French are the ones breaking international law? I'll quote who I bloody well want. Farage gets it right,usually. Riot in Leeds the other day. Recent murders by immigrants,that's a regular.Todays was a cyclist knifed a car driver to death.BBC online news. Anjem Choudary finally gets found guilty! A small victory in our fight against terrorist Islam. Sectarian politics. Etc. Off the top of my head and recent. So,we are under threat from the immigrant invasion. It's coming from France.The French have done virtually nothing to stop the invaders,therefore the threat against GB continues. So this looks like the French are guilty to me. |
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 1,825
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Post by Icegas on Jul 24, 2024 2:03:18 GMT
Sweeping statements Bas. Apart from quoting Nigel Farage, what evidence do you have for this? And what convinces you that the French are the ones breaking international law? I'll quote who I bloody well want. Farage gets it right,usually. Riot in Leeds the other day. Recent murders by immigrants,that's a regular.Todays was a cyclist knifed a car driver to death.BBC online news. Anjem Choudary finally gets found guilty! A small victory in our fight against terrorist Islam. Sectarian politics. Etc. Off the top of my head and recent. So,we are under threat from the immigrant invasion. It's coming from France.The French have done virtually nothing to stop the invaders,therefore the threat against GB continues. So this looks like the French are guilty to me. I agree, but I also disagree basel. We are a f**king island, Simple! The French, who we pay to keep these illegals out of the UK are letting dingy divers and boats come across freely. Of course,the French don't want them, as as the illegal immigrants final goal is the UK,so they let them through easily as it will then become our problem once here, as they know we will take them. There is NO EXCUSE, like absolutely NONE,for our boarder control to let any of them in...Like none! To solve this is very simple... Man the English channel,and all of the country if need be with the navy,coast guard, police and army, under the orders that anyone crossing will be treated humanly,but sent back to France for them to deal with without exception. The French are the one's before they got to the UK guilty of being negligent, so pack them of back to france, and then the French have to repeat the procedure onto the rest of Europe. We have had enough, we are full.!! |
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Post by baldrick on Jul 24, 2024 2:34:18 GMT
@bas and Icegas, if the French refuse to allow us to drop them off then we can't return them and they remain our legal responsibility.
Leaving the ECHR will not give us some fantastic legal get out clause.
The best way is to cooperate with France and other European countries, something we don't need to leave the ECHR to do.
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Post by baldrick on Jul 24, 2024 2:39:11 GMT
I never said do nothing, stop making things up. No,too busy asking me questions,looking for a 'gotcha ' moment on legal grounds, to offer any answers. You may be up on a few laws and the general red tape stuff,but a determined Government would soon sort this invasion out. I don't believe Labour will do any better than the Conservatives. Not looking for a 'gotcha' moment and the "few laws" is kind of important. Resolving this isn't easy or cheap, nor can we simply just wish this away. It's going to take a lot of effort. |
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 1,825
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Post by Icegas on Jul 24, 2024 5:43:02 GMT
@bas and Icegas, if the French refuse to allow us to drop them off then we can't return them and they remain our legal responsibility. Leaving the ECHR will not give us some fantastic legal get out clause. The best way is to cooperate with France and other European countries, something we don't need to leave the ECHR to do. We are an island.People only get here if we let them. Agreed,those already here from France are not going to taken back, and are therefore our responsibility. But, I would cover every inch of our boarder with our life guards,Police,Navy and Army along the English channel and all of the UK coastline if need be to stop illegal aliens entering our shores.It quiet simple. I would go as far to the point of lining up our defense ( which sadly it has to be called) on the boarder of our sea waters all around the UK. The French then have to take them back and tackle the problem that they are passing onto us. |
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Post by baselswh on Jul 24, 2024 6:22:24 GMT
The Rep Ireland immigration disaster continues.Out of control.
The Opposition party,Sinn Fein have announced stricter rules on immigration since polls have shown how important the issue is to the Irish people.
"Out of control".
Theres a village suggested to take in immigrants. Population of the place is under 300.Suggested amount of immigrants is over 300.
"Out of control".
All over Ireland fires and riots have become a reality in working class areas.
The stinking arrogance of the right on liberal leaders has Ireland set on a trajectory that will see a bloody 'uprising '.
Ireland,having a much smaller population than the UK,it is further down the road towards bloody violence on mass,but we too are on the same trajectory.
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,541
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Post by oldie on Jul 24, 2024 6:24:49 GMT
Are any of these suggestions from Icegas and Basel in anyway tenable or realistic?
I think not and as such detracts from a proper debate about immigration, the costs, benefits and or need.
In all this hubris what is lost is that we may have 40,000 arriving here through non official channels and often at huge profit to criminal smuggling gangs.
But the bigger question is why did the previous government set in up a visa system which allowed upto 1.4 million people (gross) to enter the UK annually.
The focus on channel crossings diverts from that question.
We are about to find out I think.
Taking just one sector, Education, there are reports emerging of a number of high profile universities facing bankruptcy. Foreign student intake and their fees has been a cornerstone of their funding.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 24, 2024 6:35:21 GMT
Are any of these suggestions from Icegas and Basel in anyway tenable or realistic? I think not and as such detracts from a proper debate about immigration, the costs, benefits and or need. In all this hubris what is lost is that we may have 40,000 arriving here through non official channels and often at huge profit to criminal smuggling gangs. But the bigger question is why did the previous government set in up a visa system which allowed upto 1.4 million people (gross) to enter the UK annually. The focus on channel crossings diverts from that question. We are about to find out I think. Taking just one sector, Education, there are reports emerging of a number of high profile universities facing bankruptcy. Foreign student intake and their fees has been a cornerstone of their funding. We've debated ours and other countries imported crime wave.Well,one side points it out,the other does it's best to sweep it under the carpet. Ar'nt there so many wasted University courses?A degree that 'guarantees' nothing. Our Universities are a right on,left wing breeding ground too.Hamas supporting and other Islamist crap. In the scenario we lost a few and only offered degree courses on subjects that actually helped our country,or only allowed the very best to study eg knitting,would that be so harmful? |
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Post by baldrick on Jul 24, 2024 6:37:49 GMT
@bas and Icegas, if the French refuse to allow us to drop them off then we can't return them and they remain our legal responsibility. Leaving the ECHR will not give us some fantastic legal get out clause. The best way is to cooperate with France and other European countries, something we don't need to leave the ECHR to do. We are an island.People only get here if we let them. Agreed,those already here from France are not going to taken back, and are therefore our responsibility. But, I would cover every inch of our boarder with our life guards,Police,Navy and Army along the English channel and all of the UK coastline if need be to stop illegal aliens entering our shores.It quiet simple. I would go as far to the point of lining up our defense ( which sadly it has to be called) on the boarder of our sea waters all around the UK. The French then have to take them back and tackle the problem that they are passing onto us. Leaving aside the totally impractical situation you think can happen, we then have unseaworthy craft capsizing in the Channel. What then? |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,541
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Post by oldie on Jul 24, 2024 7:04:11 GMT
Are any of these suggestions from Icegas and Basel in anyway tenable or realistic? I think not and as such detracts from a proper debate about immigration, the costs, benefits and or need. In all this hubris what is lost is that we may have 40,000 arriving here through non official channels and often at huge profit to criminal smuggling gangs. But the bigger question is why did the previous government set in up a visa system which allowed upto 1.4 million people (gross) to enter the UK annually. The focus on channel crossings diverts from that question. We are about to find out I think. Taking just one sector, Education, there are reports emerging of a number of high profile universities facing bankruptcy. Foreign student intake and their fees has been a cornerstone of their funding. We've debated ours and other countries imported crime wave.Well,one side points it out,the other does it's best to sweep it under the carpet. Ar'nt there so many wasted University courses?A degree that 'guarantees' nothing. Our Universities are a right on,left wing breeding ground too.Hamas supporting and other Islamist crap. In the scenario we lost a few and only offered degree courses on subjects that actually helped our country,or only allowed the very best to study eg knitting,would that be so harmful? We are not talking about the rationalisation of degree courses (and obviously I don't agree with your depiction of tertiary education) but we are faced, potentially, with universities forced to close. Can I remind you, the gross economic benefit is £41 billion gross and £37 billion net. Would you support such an impact on our economy? |
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