oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,543
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Post by oldie on Jul 24, 2024 7:06:41 GMT
We are an island.People only get here if we let them. Agreed,those already here from France are not going to taken back, and are therefore our responsibility. But, I would cover every inch of our boarder with our life guards,Police,Navy and Army along the English channel and all of the UK coastline if need be to stop illegal aliens entering our shores.It quiet simple. I would go as far to the point of lining up our defense ( which sadly it has to be called) on the boarder of our sea waters all around the UK. The French then have to take them back and tackle the problem that they are passing onto us. Leaving aside the totally impractical situation you think can happen, we then have unseaworthy craft capsizing in the Channel. What then? I believe Mr Habib, he of Reform, said during the lead up to the GE that we should let them drown. Indicative of that Party in my view. |
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Post by baselswh on Jul 24, 2024 7:13:42 GMT
We've debated ours and other countries imported crime wave.Well,one side points it out,the other does it's best to sweep it under the carpet. Ar'nt there so many wasted University courses?A degree that 'guarantees' nothing. Our Universities are a right on,left wing breeding ground too.Hamas supporting and other Islamist crap. In the scenario we lost a few and only offered degree courses on subjects that actually helped our country,or only allowed the very best to study eg knitting,would that be so harmful? We are not talking about the rationalisation of degree courses (and obviously I don't agree with your depiction of tertiary education) but we are faced, potentially, with universities forced to close. Can I remind you, the gross economic benefit is £41 billion gross and £37 billion net. Would you support such an impact on our economy? Maybe we would have more brick layers,plumbers and carpenters if we lost a few Universities? Apparently we need them and I assume they would help the economy. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,548 
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Post by trymer on Jul 24, 2024 7:19:20 GMT
Obviously there are draw factors in this country that attract these people ( they are coming from France not some war torn country) and no deterrent to put them off coming.
An analogy,try leaving food scattered outside your house and see what you attract...the answer is to stop scattering food outside your house and buy a Terrier, problem gone.
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 1,825
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Post by Icegas on Jul 24, 2024 7:22:13 GMT
We are an island.People only get here if we let them. Agreed,those already here from France are not going to taken back, and are therefore our responsibility. But, I would cover every inch of our boarder with our life guards,Police,Navy and Army along the English channel and all of the UK coastline if need be to stop illegal aliens entering our shores.It quiet simple. I would go as far to the point of lining up our defense ( which sadly it has to be called) on the boarder of our sea waters all around the UK. The French then have to take them back and tackle the problem that they are passing onto us. Leaving aside the totally impractical situation you think can happen, we then have unseaworthy craft capsizing in the Channel. What then? How would they capsize? And why is that our problem anyway? If they are not in our waters and still on the French side it's their responsibility to look after them regardless of the possibility of them sinking. Let's cut to the chase here.These people..95% whom are male, are breaking the law trying to enter the UK illegally, knowingly that we are a soft touch and that we will let them in if they get to our boarder.They are taking, paying the money to take that chance. 100% guaranteed, if we put an invisible line up in the channel and acknowledged to the French,and that illegals that you will not becoming any further once you get to that point, it will stop them coming. We are doing the opposite. |
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Post by francegas on Jul 24, 2024 7:26:13 GMT
In 2021/22 there were 679,970 overseas students studying at UK universities, 120,140 of whom were from the EU and 559,825 from elsewhere. This was a record total, the ninth consecutive new record, and an increase of 37% or 184,000 in three years. The latest total was 24% of the total student population.
In 2017/18, the number of new overseas entrants to UK universities was just around 254,000, increases in the last four years saw overseas entrants numbers reach a new high of 381,700 in 2020/21.
If these Government figures are correct there must be serious miss management of funds within universities if some face bankruptcy and closure.
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,548
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Post by trymer on Jul 24, 2024 7:31:24 GMT
We are not talking about the rationalisation of degree courses (and obviously I don't agree with your depiction of tertiary education) but we are faced, potentially, with universities forced to close. Can I remind you, the gross economic benefit is £41 billion gross and £37 billion net. Would you support such an impact on our economy? Maybe we would have more brick layers,plumbers and carpenters if we lost a few Universities? Apparently we need them and I assume they would help the economy. Exactly. |
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 1,825
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Post by Icegas on Jul 24, 2024 7:59:32 GMT
Are any of these suggestions from Icegas and Basel in anyway tenable or realistic? I think not and as such detracts from a proper debate about immigration, the costs, benefits and or need. In all this hubris what is lost is that we may have 40,000 arriving here through non official channels and often at huge profit to criminal smuggling gangs. But the bigger question is why did the previous government set in up a visa system which allowed upto 1.4 million people (gross) to enter the UK annually. The focus on channel crossings diverts from that question. We are about to find out I think. Taking just one sector, Education, there are reports emerging of a number of high profile universities facing bankruptcy. Foreign student intake and their fees has been a cornerstone of their funding. Fair points.. See this all started with Blair and Labour in 1998 by opening our boarders. Immigration did at one time have its benefits to our country of course, it would be naive to think otherwise.But that effect and argument is long..long gone, and is (15 years or so) past it's sell by date. Even the net legal immigration stats are to high, you say 1.4million a year? Why did we need this to be that high,and at what benefit was it meant to be for us? Now we are having illegal gangs and the drags of the rest of the world exploiting us under the Human rights act and Political correctness. You are right, I believe this government will go down as our worst ever,but every government since 1998 is as much responsible for this crisis as the current,none more so then the Torries that just left office. People voted them in 5 years ago, myself included on the promise of delivering brexit,and to stop this at our boarders.They lied,and failed. Now it's worst then ever. But it's Keir Starmer time to shine and stop this,but he won't. 2400 illegals have entered in his first month, apparently,a record high! - That does not look good going forward. This isn't a Race thing,nor an anti Muslim thing.Its a UK safety thing. It must be stopped,and if we need to go zero tolerance then so be it. |
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Post by baldrick on Jul 24, 2024 8:19:09 GMT
Leaving aside the totally impractical situation you think can happen, we then have unseaworthy craft capsizing in the Channel. What then? How would they capsize? And why is that our problem anyway? If they are not in our waters and still on the French side it's their responsibility to look after them regardless of the possibility of them sinking. Let's cut to the chase here.These people..95% whom are male, are breaking the law trying to enter the UK illegally, knowingly that we are a soft touch and that we will let them in if they get to our boarder.They are taking, paying the money to take that chance. 100% guaranteed, if we put an invisible line up in the channel and acknowledged to the French,and that illegals that you will not becoming any further once you get to that point, it will stop them coming. We are doing the opposite. We are obliged to rescue people at sea, if our vessels are the closest then it becomes our responsibility. If we then transport them back to France then they have no obligation to allow access to their ports, they then remain our responsibility. Leaving ECHR will not alter that. The Channel is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world, we can't close it. Better to cooperate with France and probably the rest of the EU and Mediterranean countries, dampen the push factor by working with wider governments and NGOs, offer clear, safe legal routes for asylum to circumvent the gangs. Plenty of work to do but it's not simple, despite what Nigel Farage or others suggest. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,543
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Post by oldie on Jul 24, 2024 8:42:05 GMT
Maybe we would have more brick layers,plumbers and carpenters if we lost a few Universities? Apparently we need them and I assume they would help the economy. Exactly. Is anyone seriously suggesting that tertiary education is obstructing training in vocational skills such as those suggested. It is not, it is absolutely not. It is a complete red herring to suggest that it is either/or |
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Post by baldrick on Jul 24, 2024 8:47:37 GMT
Is anyone seriously suggesting that tertiary education is obstructing training in vocational skills such as those suggested. It is not, it is absolutely not. It is a complete red herring to suggest that it is either/or I hope not, I also hope that vocational or on the job qualifications get equal billing. So much seems to be determined by 'which university' or whether someone holds a degree, regardless of what it actually is. |
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 1,825
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Post by Icegas on Jul 24, 2024 8:48:39 GMT
How would they capsize? And why is that our problem anyway? If they are not in our waters and still on the French side it's their responsibility to look after them regardless of the possibility of them sinking. Let's cut to the chase here.These people..95% whom are male, are breaking the law trying to enter the UK illegally, knowingly that we are a soft touch and that we will let them in if they get to our boarder.They are taking, paying the money to take that chance. 100% guaranteed, if we put an invisible line up in the channel and acknowledged to the French,and that illegals that you will not becoming any further once you get to that point, it will stop them coming. We are doing the opposite. We are obliged to rescue people at sea, if our vessels are the closest then it becomes our responsibility. If we then transport them back to France then they have no obligation to allow access to their ports, they then remain our responsibility. Leaving ECHR will not alter that. The Channel is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world, we can't close it. Better to cooperate with France and probably the rest of the EU and Mediterranean countries, dampen the push factor by working with wider governments and NGOs, offer clear, safe legal routes for asylum to circumvent the gangs. Plenty of work to do but it's not simple, despite what Nigel Farage or others suggest. It is that simple,but the blueprint that is suggested is always complicated by jargon and nonsense. Ok, if the French won't except us returning boats back to them if found and are under no obligation to do so,why do we let the French escort boats to our waters after leaving France and then why do we then take them off them? Genuine question? |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,543
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Post by oldie on Jul 24, 2024 8:49:03 GMT
Are any of these suggestions from Icegas and Basel in anyway tenable or realistic? I think not and as such detracts from a proper debate about immigration, the costs, benefits and or need. In all this hubris what is lost is that we may have 40,000 arriving here through non official channels and often at huge profit to criminal smuggling gangs. But the bigger question is why did the previous government set in up a visa system which allowed upto 1.4 million people (gross) to enter the UK annually. The focus on channel crossings diverts from that question. We are about to find out I think. Taking just one sector, Education, there are reports emerging of a number of high profile universities facing bankruptcy. Foreign student intake and their fees has been a cornerstone of their funding. Fair points.. See this all started with Blair and Labour in 1998 by opening our boarders. Immigration did at one time have its benefits to our country of course, it would be naive to think otherwise.But that effect and argument is long..long gone, and is (15 years or so) past it's sell by date. Even the net legal immigration stats are to high, you say 1.4million a year? Why did we need this to be that high,and at what benefit was it meant to be for us? Now we are having illegal gangs and the drags of the rest of the world exploiting us under the Human rights act and Political correctness. You are right, I believe this government will go down as our worst ever,but every government since 1998 is as much responsible for this crisis as the current,none more so then the Torries that just left office. People voted them in 5 years ago, myself included on the promise of delivering brexit,and to stop this at our boarders.They lied,and failed. Now it's worst then ever. But it's Keir Starmer time to shine and stop this,but he won't. 2400 illegals have entered in his first month, apparently,a record high! - That does not look good going forward. This isn't a Race thing,nor an anti Muslim thing.Its a UK safety thing. It must be stopped,and if we need to go zero tolerance then so be it. It was 2005. With ascension of the old eastern bloc countries to the EU Blair chose not to graduate free movement, in the way Germany did for example. Whether that was right or wrong is a matter of opinion. However what is true is that when faced with the consequences of withdrawing from the EU and the termination of free movement the Johnson government panicked and introduced visa schemes that have resulted in net migration at almost doubled the rate of that under free movement. And from non EU countries, many of which are impoverished and can not afford to lose trained personnel |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,543
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Post by oldie on Jul 24, 2024 8:56:14 GMT
Is anyone seriously suggesting that tertiary education is obstructing training in vocational skills such as those suggested. It is not, it is absolutely not. It is a complete red herring to suggest that it is either/or I hope not, I also hope that vocational or on the job qualifications get equal billing. So much seems to be determined by 'which university' or whether someone holds a degree, regardless of what it actually is. That rather depends on how you view education. Of course some professions require specific training and education, medical and legal, for example. But in a service economy, which we are, critical thinking abilities are a predominant skill, a skill which is taught at University. In that instance, specific topics are less important. I fear this is something that many do not understand |
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Post by baldrick on Jul 24, 2024 9:03:14 GMT
We are obliged to rescue people at sea, if our vessels are the closest then it becomes our responsibility. If we then transport them back to France then they have no obligation to allow access to their ports, they then remain our responsibility. Leaving ECHR will not alter that. The Channel is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world, we can't close it. Better to cooperate with France and probably the rest of the EU and Mediterranean countries, dampen the push factor by working with wider governments and NGOs, offer clear, safe legal routes for asylum to circumvent the gangs. Plenty of work to do but it's not simple, despite what Nigel Farage or others suggest. It is that simple,but the blueprint that is suggested is always complicated by jargon and nonsense. Ok, if the French won't except us returning boats back to them if found and are under no obligation to do so,why do we let the French escort boats to our waters after leaving France and then why do we then take them off them? Genuine question? The boats are sailing out of French waters, if they were sailing from Dover to France we'd do the same. |
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Post by baldrick on Jul 24, 2024 9:09:00 GMT
I hope not, I also hope that vocational or on the job qualifications get equal billing. So much seems to be determined by 'which university' or whether someone holds a degree, regardless of what it actually is. That rather depends on how you view education. Of course some professions require specific training and education, medical and legal, for example. But in a service economy, which we are, critical thinking abilities are a predominant skill, a skill which is taught at University. In that instance, specific topics are less important. I fear this is something that many do not understand Universities don't have a monopoly on teaching critical thinking and a degree doesn't guarantee that skill. I learnt mine on the job. A life experience is often more useful than a degree. I was listening to an interview about the ideal police candidate a while back, they prefer someone in their late 20s rather than early 20s because of that. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 24, 2024 9:59:21 GMT
Sweeping statements Bas. Apart from quoting Nigel Farage, what evidence do you have for this? And what convinces you that the French are the ones breaking international law? I'll quote who I bloody well want. Farage gets it right,usually. Riot in Leeds the other day. Recent murders by immigrants,that's a regular.Todays was a cyclist knifed a car driver to death.BBC online news. Anjem Choudary finally gets found guilty! A small victory in our fight against terrorist Islam. Sectarian politics. Etc. Off the top of my head and recent. So,we are under threat from the immigrant invasion. It's coming from France.The French have done virtually nothing to stop the invaders,therefore the threat against GB continues. So this looks like the French are guilty to me. Keep your hair on, Bas. It was tongue in cheek comment, and I would argue Farage says a lot, usual inflammatory, without producing any statistics or facts to back up his comments. The riot in Leeds was a Romany family dispute w social services that grew out of hand. Farage was totally wrong and incendiary when he described it as 'The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds' Because so many people accept what he says as truth, he could have incited it further. Did you read about the Asian local Green Party councillor who was out on the streets calming things down rather than like Farage trying to make things worse? |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,543
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Post by oldie on Jul 24, 2024 10:04:57 GMT
That rather depends on how you view education. Of course some professions require specific training and education, medical and legal, for example. But in a service economy, which we are, critical thinking abilities are a predominant skill, a skill which is taught at University. In that instance, specific topics are less important. I fear this is something that many do not understand Universities don't have a monopoly on teaching critical thinking and a degree doesn't guarantee that skill. I learnt mine on the job. A life experience is often more useful than a degree. I was listening to an interview about the ideal police candidate a while back, they prefer someone in their late 20s rather than early 20s because of that. Absolutely I wouldn't argue with that. But the fact remains that for an 18 year old, tertiary education offers the quickest route for learning this |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 24, 2024 10:05:16 GMT
Leaving aside the totally impractical situation you think can happen, we then have unseaworthy craft capsizing in the Channel. What then? How would they capsize? And why is that our problem anyway? If they are not in our waters and still on the French side it's their responsibility to look after them regardless of the possibility of them sinking. Let's cut to the chase here.These people..95% whom are male, are breaking the law trying to enter the UK illegally, knowingly that we are a soft touch and that we will let them in if they get to our boarder.They are taking, paying the money to take that chance. 100% guaranteed, if we put an invisible line up in the channel and acknowledged to the French,and that illegals that you will not becoming any further once you get to that point, it will stop them coming. We are doing the opposite. There is an invisible line in the Channel between our territorial waters. And the French do stop them on the beaches each day, they have daily foot and boat patrols along the coastline, it's just that all we hear is from the likes of Reform who shout about the ones who get here. The other day the Coastguard, RN and RNLI assisted the French with a large craft that was sinking and all the travellers were taken back to France. But that's not spoken about, only those that shout loudest. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,548
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Post by trymer on Jul 24, 2024 19:52:37 GMT
I hope not, I also hope that vocational or on the job qualifications get equal billing. So much seems to be determined by 'which university' or whether someone holds a degree, regardless of what it actually is. That rather depends on how you view education. Of course some professions require specific training and education, medical and legal, for example. But in a service economy, which we are, critical thinking abilities are a predominant skill, a skill which is taught at University. In that instance, specific topics are less important. I fear this is something that many do not understand The problem is that so many students leave university with a degree that is largely useless to them in the job market,they then get an unskilled job in a shop or a bar where their boss left school at 17 with no qualifications but now has more experience. Added to that they now have debt from their student loan and its no wonder a lot of them are so bitter,best not to remind them that they had their 'university experience'. I wonder though if students can get a loan why non students cant get a loan if they get a trade apprenticeship ? or even if they get an unskilled job, perhaps every school leaver should get an interest free loan of £50,000. |
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Icegas
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 1,825
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Post by Icegas on Jul 25, 2024 6:38:36 GMT
Any views on the manchester police incident from yesterday as I've seen enough!
I've heard the reports and watched multiple videos.
What the scene at Manchester airport tells us is that once again certain communities see themselves as above Western/British law. They simply do not respect Western/British laws and values not to mention freedom of religion and concepts such as integration and assimilation.
Notice how silent those communities are regarding the stabbing of a soldier outside the Brompton Army barracks yesterday - the same day Islamist hate preacher Anjem Choudary is found guilty and faces life in prison.
We will wait and see if the stabbing is a coincidence...
Regardless, same old story in everyday new Britain.
Any chance certain demographics get to scream victim and oppression, whilst they themselves seek to oppress and colonise, they take, backed up by the left and liberals, whilst consistently remaining silent whenever the most murderous, egregious attacks happen in the name of their religion on British soil.
We have an Islamist problem in the UK, encouraged by the radical left.
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