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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 19:56:22 GMT
I think it might be you muddled up. I know my point was why the Windrush people came to England. I explained that. They arrived in 48,before the British Nationality Act actually started,so "possibly illegally".Hardly a big point I know. You've lost me Baldrick,maybe quote me,explain your understanding of it and then I can perhaps regain the groove. The Empire Windrush arrived in 1948, people from the Caribbean arrived before and afterwards, many of the latter when we passed the Nationality Act and when we did look for labour. The "Windrush generation" is the term you used, which is applied to those who came over after the war. You've applied it to just those on the ship itself. Okay,got that ,thanks. Yep,the "Windrush generation " is a term for all of the Caribbeans that came and not only those on the Windrush ship. Fair enough,but,my understanding is - could be wrong - the Government only asked for Caribeans to come to the UK about 1956. This backs my only point,the people that came were motivated by the lure of a better life,as unemployment was rife in the Caribbean.They were economical migrants and fair play to them.As you say/suggest,they wanted to come,we wanted them to come ( at least by the 50s ) so all is good. However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth. That's it. Out of interest ,do you know how many arrived before 48 and what was their situation?Were they connected to the Military perhaps?Etc. |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,585
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Post by oldie on Aug 21, 2024 19:57:14 GMT
Why this rush to try and minimise the war contribution made by Caribbean people? What does it prove? What point is it trying to make? Somebody said thousands served. Immediately there is an inquisition about exact numbers, roles, timelines, motives and opportunities, and the same for the Windrush generation, who came here believing they could better themselves by working in the UK. Digging up very old statements to prove they weren't asked to come but came because they were allowed to and wanted to work. Makes you wonder, I'm not sure it proves anything unless there is a wish to minimise their service. I find it incredulous. But not surprising. For me it just proves the point about inherent racism in so many |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,585
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Post by oldie on Aug 21, 2024 20:00:59 GMT
The Empire Windrush arrived in 1948, people from the Caribbean arrived before and afterwards, many of the latter when we passed the Nationality Act and when we did look for labour. The "Windrush generation" is the term you used, which is applied to those who came over after the war. You've applied it to just those on the ship itself. Okay,got that ,thanks. Yep,the "Windrush generation " is a term for all of the Caribbeans that came and not only those on the Windrush ship. Fair enough,but,my understanding is - could be wrong - the Government only asked for Caribeans to come to the UK about 1956. This backs my only point,the people that came were motivated by the lure of a better life,as unemployment was rife in the Caribbean.They were economical migrants and fair play to them.As you say/suggest,they wanted to come,we wanted them to come ( at least by the 50s ) so all is good. However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth. That's it. Out of interest ,do you know how many arrived before 48 and what was their situation?Were they connected to the Military perhaps?Etc. Jesus Christ. People we shipped over as slaves Then "However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth." How shocking, who would have thought it. |
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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 20:09:57 GMT
Okay,got that ,thanks. Yep,the "Windrush generation " is a term for all of the Caribbeans that came and not only those on the Windrush ship. Fair enough,but,my understanding is - could be wrong - the Government only asked for Caribeans to come to the UK about 1956. This backs my only point,the people that came were motivated by the lure of a better life,as unemployment was rife in the Caribbean.They were economical migrants and fair play to them.As you say/suggest,they wanted to come,we wanted them to come ( at least by the 50s ) so all is good. However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth. That's it. Out of interest ,do you know how many arrived before 48 and what was their situation?Were they connected to the Military perhaps?Etc. Jesus Christ. People we shipped over as slaves Then "However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth." How shocking, who would have thought it. Calm down Oldie. We've all heard it said ( I imagine we've all heard it ) ,they came to save us.Etc. Their great moral purpose was for themselves.Not Great Britain. That's been my point and it sounds as if we sort of agree on it. Right let's argue about something else! |
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 20:10:49 GMT
The Empire Windrush arrived in 1948, people from the Caribbean arrived before and afterwards, many of the latter when we passed the Nationality Act and when we did look for labour. The "Windrush generation" is the term you used, which is applied to those who came over after the war. You've applied it to just those on the ship itself. Okay,got that ,thanks. Yep,the "Windrush generation " is a term for all of the Caribbeans that came and not only those on the Windrush ship. Fair enough,but,my understanding is - could be wrong - the Government only asked for Caribeans to come to the UK about 1956. This backs my only point,the people that came were motivated by the lure of a better life,as unemployment was rife in the Caribbean.They were economical migrants and fair play to them.As you say/suggest,they wanted to come,we wanted them to come ( at least by the 50s ) so all is good. However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth. That's it. Out of interest ,do you know how many arrived before 48 and what was their situation?Were they connected to the Military perhaps?Etc. Many wanted to rejoin the forces. In terms of numbers, I don't have exact figures, I'd suggest it would have been in the low thousands. Some would have stayed after the First World War too. It's something like 15,000 before 1950 after which it increased tenfold within 10 years. |
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 20:12:07 GMT
Jesus Christ. People we shipped over as slaves Then "However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth." How shocking, who would have thought it. Calm down Oldie. We've all heard it said ( I imagine we've all heard it ) ,they came to save us.Etc. Their great moral purpose was for themselves.Not Great Britain. That's been my point and it sounds as if we sort of agree on it. Right let's argue about something else! What was their motivation to serve during the war? Don't forget, for many at the time, Britain was seen as the Motherland. |
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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 20:14:14 GMT
Okay,got that ,thanks. Yep,the "Windrush generation " is a term for all of the Caribbeans that came and not only those on the Windrush ship. Fair enough,but,my understanding is - could be wrong - the Government only asked for Caribeans to come to the UK about 1956. This backs my only point,the people that came were motivated by the lure of a better life,as unemployment was rife in the Caribbean.They were economical migrants and fair play to them.As you say/suggest,they wanted to come,we wanted them to come ( at least by the 50s ) so all is good. However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth. That's it. Out of interest ,do you know how many arrived before 48 and what was their situation?Were they connected to the Military perhaps?Etc. Many wanted to rejoin the forces. In terms of numbers, I don't have exact figures, I'd suggest it would have been in the low thousands. Some would have stayed after the First World War too. It's something like 15,000 before 1950 after which it increased tenfold within 10 years. 👍 |
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oldie
Joined: September 2021
Posts: 7,585
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Post by oldie on Aug 21, 2024 20:14:55 GMT
Calm down Oldie. We've all heard it said ( I imagine we've all heard it ) ,they came to save us.Etc. Their great moral purpose was for themselves.Not Great Britain. That's been my point and it sounds as if we sort of agree on it. Right let's argue about something else! What was their motivation to serve during the war? Don't forget, for many at the time, Britain was seen as the Motherland. Can't wait for his genius insight on that question |
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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 20:17:57 GMT
Calm down Oldie. We've all heard it said ( I imagine we've all heard it ) ,they came to save us.Etc. Their great moral purpose was for themselves.Not Great Britain. That's been my point and it sounds as if we sort of agree on it. Right let's argue about something else! What was their motivation to serve during the war? Don't forget, for many at the time, Britain was seen as the Motherland. That's interesting, not only Caribbean men,but other countries of the Empire. How exactly did they see fighting for GB? Moving to the UK or US is one thing,but going off to fight, to risk your life is quite another. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,561 
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Post by trymer on Aug 21, 2024 20:25:01 GMT
Oldie....You do realise that it was Dr Goebbels who talked about 'total war' ? you do dont you surely because you were lecturing Bas yesterday about not knowing history...today though you got caught out making up figures,16,000 blah blah and now anyone asking questions is a 'racist'...so predictable you hypocrite.
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Post by baselswh on Aug 21, 2024 20:26:41 GMT
Apparently some Caribeans felt a loyalty to the Mother country.Others wanted to travel,to seek opportunity.
Indians eg,some felt a strong loyalty to GB.Some did'nt want German and Japanese Empires.Indian nationalists wanted self rule and saw winning WWII as a way to gaining that.
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 20:27:15 GMT
What was their motivation to serve during the war? Don't forget, for many at the time, Britain was seen as the Motherland. That's interesting, not only Caribbean men,but other countries of the Empire. How exactly did they see fighting for GB? Moving to the UK or US is one thing,but going off to fight, to risk your life is quite another. Many served, many on The Empire Windrush wanted to rejoin the RAF. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
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Post by trymer on Aug 21, 2024 20:27:59 GMT
Okay,got that ,thanks. Yep,the "Windrush generation " is a term for all of the Caribbeans that came and not only those on the Windrush ship. Fair enough,but,my understanding is - could be wrong - the Government only asked for Caribeans to come to the UK about 1956. This backs my only point,the people that came were motivated by the lure of a better life,as unemployment was rife in the Caribbean.They were economical migrants and fair play to them.As you say/suggest,they wanted to come,we wanted them to come ( at least by the 50s ) so all is good. However,they were not motivated by some virtuous crusade to save Britain,which is a line born out of the Windrush myth. That's it. Out of interest ,do you know how many arrived before 48 and what was their situation?Were they connected to the Military perhaps?Etc. Many wanted to rejoin the forces. In terms of numbers, I don't have exact figures, I'd suggest it would have been in the low thousands. Some would have stayed after the First World War too. It's something like 15,000 before 1950 after which it increased tenfold within 10 years. Wanted to rejoin the forces ? first time I have heard that,we had lots of troops and National service was coming in,if they wanted to join the services there were local regiments in the Caribbean, most of the older blokes I met worked at the smelter or got labouring jobs. |
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 20:28:04 GMT
You do realise that it was Dr Goebbels who talked about 'total war' ? you do dont you surely because you were lecturing Bas yesterday about not knowing history...today though you got caught out making up figures,16,000 blah blah and now anyone asking questions is a 'racist'...so predictable you hypocrite. Was that aimed at me? |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,561
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Post by trymer on Aug 21, 2024 20:29:53 GMT
That's interesting, not only Caribbean men,but other countries of the Empire. How exactly did they see fighting for GB? Moving to the UK or US is one thing,but going off to fight, to risk your life is quite another. Many served, many on The Empire Windrush wanted to rejoin the RAF. Did they rejoin the RAF ? downsizing after WW2 and then National Servicemen coming into the services was there any need for recruitment from abroad ? |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,561
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Post by trymer on Aug 21, 2024 20:30:47 GMT
You do realise that it was Dr Goebbels who talked about 'total war' ? you do dont you surely because you were lecturing Bas yesterday about not knowing history...today though you got caught out making up figures,16,000 blah blah and now anyone asking questions is a 'racist'...so predictable you hypocrite. Was that aimed at me? No,I meant to quote Oldie, but you must know that 'total war' is a Nazi slogan ? |
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 20:37:09 GMT
No,I meant to quote Oldie, but you must know that 'total war' is a Nazi slogan ? Came from Ludendorff's memoirs in 1935. |
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Post by baldrick on Aug 21, 2024 20:38:38 GMT
Many served, many on The Empire Windrush wanted to rejoin the RAF. Did they rejoin the RAF ? downsizing after WW2 and then National Servicemen coming into the services was there any need for recruitment from abroad ? No, but that was their intention. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 2,561
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Post by trymer on Aug 21, 2024 20:40:30 GMT
No,I meant to quote Oldie, but you must know that 'total war' is a Nazi slogan ? Came from Ludendorff's memoirs in 1935. Well you were talking about WW2 when you mentioned it being a 'total war' and Dr Goebbels speech in 1943 called for 'total war'....as you point out Ludendorffs book was 1935 4 years before WW2 but in any case Ludendorff was a Nazi. |
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
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Post by trymer on Aug 21, 2024 20:44:00 GMT
Did they rejoin the RAF ? downsizing after WW2 and then National Servicemen coming into the services was there any need for recruitment from abroad ? No, but that was their intention. Really ? and they didnt find out before sailing here that there was no need for more airmen now that WW2 was over ? |
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