Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 9:45:23 GMT
This may put a bit of a spanner in the works.
But there could just be some footballing reasons for keeping B*****.
Namely:
Ian Holloway Ray Graydon Paul Trollope Ben Garner Paul Tisdale.
Each time we ditched the managers above, we actually got worse, when at the time it felt it was impossible to actually get worse.
Holloway - sacked. Gary Thompson appointed - relegated Graydon (midtable) - sacked. Phil Bater appointed - dropped like a stone (only saved by Atkins & Broadhurst) Trollope - sacked -Dave Penny appointed. Got worse, (sacked) Stuart Campbell appointed - relegated Garner sacked replaced by Tisdale - got even worse, sacked then JB we know.
To balance, I give you Buckle. Toxic. Sacked, replaced by McGhee. Improvement till end of season, but then reverted to being dreadful the next season and arguably a worse team than Buckle. So hardly a ringing endorsement for the sacking
To balance further I given you Dobson. Dreadful, sacked. Replace by Rofe. Improved & survived, but relegated the next season anyway, when he was sacked when Big Mal appeared.
I stress above footballing reasons rather than 'JB as a person reasons' which have been done to death.
I think, the only time we have sacked someone and actually improved long term was when we ditched Atkins, and Trolls took over
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 9:52:25 GMT
This may put a bit of a spanner in the works. But there could just be some footballing reasons for keeping B*****. Namely: Ian Holloway Ray Graydon Paul Trollope Ben Garner Paul Tisdale. Each time we ditched the managers above, we actually got worse, when at the time it felt it was impossible to actually get worse. Holloway - sacked. Gary Thompson appointed - relegated Graydon (midtable) - sacked. Phil Bater appointed - dropped like a stone (only saved by Atkins & Broadhurst) Trollope - sacked -Dave Penny appointed. Got worse, (sacked) Stuart Campbell appointed - relegated Garner sacked replaced by Tisdale - got even worse, sacked then JB we know. To balance, I give you Buckle. Toxic. Sacked, replaced by McGhee. Improvement till end of season, but then reverted to being dreadful the next season and arguably a worse team than Buckle. So hardly a ringing endorsement for the sacking To balance further I given you Dobson. Dreadful, sacked. Replace by Rofe. Improved & survived, but relegated the next season anyway, when he was sacked when Big Mal appeared. I stress above footballing reasons rather than 'JB as a person reasons' which have been done to death. I think, the only time we have sacked someone and actually improved long term was when we ditched Atkins, and Trolls took over Totally agree that football reasons should come first and give the guy a 2nd transfer window
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 9:55:14 GMT
This may put a bit of a spanner in the works. But there could just be some footballing reasons for keeping B*****. Namely: Ian Holloway Ray Graydon Paul Trollope Ben Garner Paul Tisdale. Each time we ditched the managers above, we actually got worse, when at the time it felt it was impossible to actually get worse. Holloway - sacked. Gary Thompson appointed - relegated Graydon (midtable) - sacked. Phil Bater appointed - dropped like a stone (only saved by Atkins & Broadhurst) Trollope - sacked -Dave Penny appointed. Got worse, (sacked) Stuart Campbell appointed - relegated Garner sacked replaced by Tisdale - got even worse, sacked then JB we know. To balance, I give you Buckle. Toxic. Sacked, replaced by McGhee. Improvement till end of season, but then reverted to being dreadful the next season and arguably a worse team than Buckle. So hardly a ringing endorsement for the sacking To balance further I given you Dobson. Dreadful, sacked. Replace by Rofe. Improved & survived, but relegated the next season anyway, when he was sacked when Big Mal appeared. I stress above footballing reasons rather than 'JB as a person reasons' which have been done to death. I think, the only time we have sacked someone and actually improved long term was when we ditched Atkins, and Trolls took over Both Holloway and Graydon wanted to be sacked, they only hung around to get their pay offs so B***** offering to walk sounded like an offer too good to refuse.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 10:11:41 GMT
This may put a bit of a spanner in the works. But there could just be some footballing reasons for keeping B*****. Namely: Ian Holloway Ray Graydon Paul Trollope Ben Garner Paul Tisdale. Each time we ditched the managers above, we actually got worse, when at the time it felt it was impossible to actually get worse. Holloway - sacked. Gary Thompson appointed - relegated Graydon (midtable) - sacked. Phil Bater appointed - dropped like a stone (only saved by Atkins & Broadhurst) Trollope - sacked -Dave Penny appointed. Got worse, (sacked) Stuart Campbell appointed - relegated Garner sacked replaced by Tisdale - got even worse, sacked then JB we know. To balance, I give you Buckle. Toxic. Sacked, replaced by McGhee. Improvement till end of season, but then reverted to being dreadful the next season and arguably a worse team than Buckle. So hardly a ringing endorsement for the sacking To balance further I given you Dobson. Dreadful, sacked. Replace by Rofe. Improved & survived, but relegated the next season anyway, when he was sacked when Big Mal appeared. I stress above footballing reasons rather than 'JB as a person reasons' which have been done to death. I think, the only time we have sacked someone and actually improved long term was when we ditched Atkins, and Trolls took over Both Holloway and Graydon wanted to be sacked, they only hung around to get their pay offs so B***** offering to walk sounded like an offer too good to refuse. There could just be an analogy with Atkins however, who it seemed signed some decent players but couldn't get them performing, which Trolls did. But Trolls was already at the club Has B***** put together a decent ish squad that could perform for someone else?? Its basically his squad. From the Walsall scenes it doesn't appear that he has lost the dressing room.
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 4, 2021 11:03:24 GMT
This may put a bit of a spanner in the works. But there could just be some footballing reasons for keeping B*****. Namely: Ian Holloway Ray Graydon Paul Trollope Ben Garner Paul Tisdale. Each time we ditched the managers above, we actually got worse, when at the time it felt it was impossible to actually get worse. Holloway - sacked. Gary Thompson appointed - relegated Graydon (midtable) - sacked. Phil Bater appointed - dropped like a stone (only saved by Atkins & Broadhurst) Trollope - sacked -Dave Penny appointed. Got worse, (sacked) Stuart Campbell appointed - relegated Garner sacked replaced by Tisdale - got even worse, sacked then JB we know. To balance, I give you Buckle. Toxic. Sacked, replaced by McGhee. Improvement till end of season, but then reverted to being dreadful the next season and arguably a worse team than Buckle. So hardly a ringing endorsement for the sacking To balance further I given you Dobson. Dreadful, sacked. Replace by Rofe. Improved & survived, but relegated the next season anyway, when he was sacked when Big Mal appeared. I stress above footballing reasons rather than 'JB as a person reasons' which have been done to death. I think, the only time we have sacked someone and actually improved long term was when we ditched Atkins, and Trolls took over Totally agree that football reasons should come first and give the guy a 2nd transfer window He had a whole summer and the recent transfer window to bring in new players - he brought in Glenn Whelan and Leon Clarke. This was after the sale of Hanlon, who was presumably all too keen to get out of the club after being labelled (along with other players) as a 'loser' and a 'so-called forward'. To put it more bluntly, whenever he has been given a transfer window, he has largely brought in his mates and has-beens. Why give him another one?
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 12,264
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Post by bluetornados on Oct 4, 2021 11:04:05 GMT
IMO a manager that is on around 40% win rate is doing a good job, if we look at our managers for just this century these are the stats:
1..Gerry Francis in two spells was 39.6%
2..John Ward in two spells was 40.4%
3..Ian Holloway 36.9%
4..Garry Thompson 29.8%
5..Ray Graydon 27.2%
6..Ian Atkins 30.9%
7..Paul Trollope 37.3%
8..Dave Penney 15.4%
9..Paul Buckle 27.5%
10..Mark McGhee 26.6%
11..Darrell Clarke 42.3%
12..Graham Coughlan 44.6%
13..Ben Garner 18.2%
14..Paul Tisdale 26.3%
15..Joey B***** 23.3%
Out of those 15 permanent managers for only this century, only 3 have that 40% figure. There is something fundamentally wrong with the BRFC BOARD over the years choosing managers.
For the whole of our managerial history only 4 others have got to that 40% mark, they are:
Ben Hall - 42.2%
Bert Tann - 41.1%
Bill Dodgin Sr - 44.2%
David Williams - 47.2%
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 11:22:17 GMT
IMO a manager that is on around 40% win rate is doing a good job, if we look at our managers for just this century these are the stats: 1..Gerry Francis in two spells was 39.6% 2..John Ward in two spells was 40.4% 3..Ian Holloway 36.9% 4..Garry Thompson 29.8% 5..Ray Graydon 27.2% 6..Ian Atkins 30.9% 7..Paul Trollope 37.3% 8..Dave Penney 15.4% 9..Paul Buckle 27.5% 10..Mark McGhee 26.6% 11..Darrell Clarke 42.3% 12..Graham Coughlan 44.6% 13..Ben Garner 18.2% 14..Paul Tisdale 26.3% 15..Joey B***** 23.3% Out of those 15 permanent managers for only this century, only 3 have that 40% figure. There is something fundamentally wrong with the BRFC BOARD over the years choosing managers. For the whole of our managerial history only 4 others have got to that 40% mark, they are: Ben Hall - 42.2% Bert Tann - 41.1% Bill Dodgin Sr - 44.2% David Williams - 47.2% My heart kind of sinks whenever there is a mass clearout. I can recall when Graydon took over he ditched everyone, I think literally every player was out of contract. Buckle did the same. As did Garner And now JB. It never goes well. The problem with this is that its well known only a % of new signings ever come off, say 6/10, so if you change the whole squad there will always be a significant number of players who don't work out /dont settle/take time etc. And in ditching the manager at that point you then potentially make the problem worse by having a new bloke with different ideas. if you think back to last season, Garners players ended up with Tisdale then B*****, both with different ideas. No wonder they were all over the shop come the end. Anyone thinking just sacking JB fixes things may find they are disappointed. The personal issues surrounding peoples thoughts on JB just make it all the more complex.
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Post by steviegas on Oct 4, 2021 11:25:23 GMT
Reasons for keeping B***** = 0
Reasons for sacking = endless
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Post by richmace on Oct 4, 2021 12:18:38 GMT
I would say that in an ideal world you should only sack managers at the end of a season. I would like us to adopt this as a minimum.
Only at that point can you be 100% sure of the impact of the players, tactics, etc.
Managers that span season boundaries carry the baggage of the previous season (both good and bad).
Or more ideally, you should allow a manager to see out their contract.
The question is: Can we risk a second successive relegation by giving a manager the proper amount of time to access the impact of their decisions? I would say in our case no. We cannot afford to be relegated again.
I will repeat the goal as set by the owner. Promotion is the goal this season. Not mid table obscurity (a valid goal for this season), not relegation. Promotion.
That is how the manager should be judged. We are not seeing a promotion squad.
Based on the decisions so far, I do not want JB to be given another transfer window to bring in more players of the type recruited so far.
To answer the original question, really JB should be given until the end of the season. I don't want that though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 12:31:34 GMT
I think, the only time we have sacked someone and actually improved long term was when we ditched Atkins, and Trolls took over You would need to define 'sacked'. Ward went 'upstairs' to make way for Clarke, and was gone by the start of the next season, that didn't work out too badly.
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 12:35:53 GMT
Both Holloway and Graydon wanted to be sacked, they only hung around to get their pay offs so B***** offering to walk sounded like an offer too good to refuse. There could just be an analogy with Atkins however, who it seemed signed some decent players but couldn't get them performing, which Trolls did. But Trolls was already at the club Has B***** put together a decent ish squad that could perform for someone else?? Its basically his squad. From the Walsall scenes it doesn't appear that he has lost the dressing room. I think Trollope was more about Lawrence than him, see what happened when Lawrence left
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 12:36:53 GMT
Totally agree that football reasons should come first and give the guy a 2nd transfer window He had a whole summer and the recent transfer window to bring in new players - he brought in Glenn Whelan and Leon Clarke. This was after the sale of Hanlon, who was presumably all too keen to get out of the club after being labelled (along with other players) as a 'loser' and a 'so-called forward'. To put it more bluntly, whenever he has been given a transfer window, he has largely brought in his mates and has-beens. Why give him another one? If something is not working and he has a chance to rectify it, he only has one or two to get it right, a new manager would want more than that
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 12:38:00 GMT
IMO a manager that is on around 40% win rate is doing a good job, if we look at our managers for just this century these are the stats: 1..Gerry Francis in two spells was 39.6% 2..John Ward in two spells was 40.4% 3..Ian Holloway 36.9% 4..Garry Thompson 29.8% 5..Ray Graydon 27.2% 6..Ian Atkins 30.9% 7..Paul Trollope 37.3% 8..Dave Penney 15.4% 9..Paul Buckle 27.5% 10..Mark McGhee 26.6% 11..Darrell Clarke 42.3% 12..Graham Coughlan 44.6% 13..Ben Garner 18.2% 14..Paul Tisdale 26.3% 15..Joey B***** 23.3% Out of those 15 permanent managers for only this century, only 3 have that 40% figure. There is something fundamentally wrong with the BRFC BOARD over the years choosing managers. For the whole of our managerial history only 4 others have got to that 40% mark, they are: Ben Hall - 42.2% Bert Tann - 41.1% Bill Dodgin Sr - 44.2% David Williams - 47.2% Excellent stats, but is there a comparison with other clubs ? E.g. Shrewsbury, Bradford, Bristol City to name a random 3
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 12:38:41 GMT
Reasons for keeping B***** = 0 Reasons for sacking = endless Sack him now and we may go down
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 12:39:07 GMT
I would say that in an ideal world you should only sack managers at the end of a season. I would like us to adopt this as a minimum. Only at that point can you be 100% sure of the impact of the players, tactics, etc. Managers that span season boundaries carry the baggage of the previous season (both good and bad). Or more ideally, you should allow a manager to see out their contract. The question is: Can we risk a second successive relegation by giving a manager the proper amount of time to access the impact of their decisions? I would say in our case no. We cannot afford to be relegated again. I will repeat the goal as set by the owner. Promotion is the goal this season. Not mid table obscurity (a valid goal for this season), not relegation. Promotion. That is how the manager should be judged. We are not seeing a promotion squad. Based on the decisions so far, I do not want JB to be given another transfer window to bring in more players of the type recruited so far. To answer the original question, really JB should be given until the end of the season. I don't want that though. Spot on
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 12:44:16 GMT
Reasons for keeping B***** = 0 Reasons for sacking = endless Sack him now and we may go down Keep him now and then what? The charlatan took us down last year. The relegation was down to him, not Tisdale and most certainly not Ben Garner. B***** out.
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Post by baselswh on Oct 4, 2021 13:07:53 GMT
Accepting it looks like Joe will be with us for perhaps at least 5 more games.
Sometimes a club owner sticking with a manager that has failed to bring home enough points, has paid off.
Lansdowne stuck with Johnson junior after an awful run.City went onto some great Cup games and at least threatened a play off place for a while.
On the ten games many would sack JB,but of course it all depends who comes in and what he can do with this squad,transfer possibilities etc etc.
Interesting times,although i find the overall state of Bristol Rovers really quite depressing.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,123
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 4, 2021 13:10:19 GMT
Reasons for keeping B***** = 0 Reasons for sacking = endless Sack him now and we may go down Don't sack him now and we may well go down. I said it was far more likely that we could implode and struggle to avoid relegation rather than launch a promotion bid under this fraud of a manager. I said this repeatedly. No-one likes to say "I told you so". Apart from me. I told you so.
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Post by gaspanic84 on Oct 4, 2021 13:39:53 GMT
Reasons for keeping B***** = 0 Reasons for sacking = endless Sack him now and we may go down I don’t understand the logic. B***** is badly underperforming in his job. He will be distracted throughout November and December with court cases. He is highly likely to be forced to leave after that. I think you have to start asking questions as to why he is still here. I cannot see a way that his continued employment is in the best interests of the club, so whose interests is it in?
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 14:05:39 GMT
Sack him now and we may go down Keep him now and then what? The charlatan took us down last year. The relegation was down to him, not Tisdale and most certainly not Ben Garner. B***** out. 🙂 he's an easy target. Give him time.
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