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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 14:06:13 GMT
Sack him now and we may go down Don't sack him now and we may well go down. I said it was far more likely that we could implode and struggle to avoid relegation rather than launch a promotion bid under this fraud of a manager. I said this repeatedly. No-one likes to say "I told you so". Apart from me. I told you so. I hope you're wrong. See where we are after Carlisle
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 14:07:56 GMT
Sack him now and we may go down I don’t understand the logic. B***** is badly underperforming in his job. He will be distracted throughout November and December with court cases. He is highly likely to be forced to leave after that. I think you have to start asking questions as to why he is still here. I cannot see a way that his continued employment is in the best interests of the club, so whose interests is it in? Yep I get all of it, I really do. If he goes by xmas for football reasons or otherwise, a new manager can use the current squad plus Jan, so cross fingers. No wait, been here before... I hope it works for B*****, so much easier in the long run.
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Post by gaspanic84 on Oct 4, 2021 14:29:57 GMT
I don’t understand the logic. B***** is badly underperforming in his job. He will be distracted throughout November and December with court cases. He is highly likely to be forced to leave after that. I think you have to start asking questions as to why he is still here. I cannot see a way that his continued employment is in the best interests of the club, so whose interests is it in? Yep I get all of it, I really do. If he goes by xmas for football reasons or otherwise, a new manager can use the current squad plus Jan, so cross fingers. No wait, been here before... I hope it works for B*****, so much easier in the long run. Yep we have 2005/6 and 2011/12 in this division. Right call made on both occasions
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bluetornados
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 12,229
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Post by bluetornados on Oct 4, 2021 14:33:21 GMT
IMO a manager that is on around 40% win rate is doing a good job, if we look at our managers for just this century these are the stats: 1..Gerry Francis in two spells was 39.6% 2..John Ward in two spells was 40.4% 3..Ian Holloway 36.9% 4..Garry Thompson 29.8% 5..Ray Graydon 27.2% 6..Ian Atkins 30.9% 7..Paul Trollope 37.3% 8..Dave Penney 15.4% 9..Paul Buckle 27.5% 10..Mark McGhee 26.6% 11..Darrell Clarke 42.3% 12..Graham Coughlan 44.6% 13..Ben Garner 18.2% 14..Paul Tisdale 26.3% 15..Joey B***** 23.3% Out of those 15 permanent managers for only this century, only 3 have that 40% figure. There is something fundamentally wrong with the BRFC BOARD over the years choosing managers. For the whole of our managerial history only 4 others have got to that 40% mark, they are: Ben Hall - 42.2% Bert Tann - 41.1% Bill Dodgin Sr - 44.2% David Williams - 47.2% Excellent stats, but is there a comparison with other clubs ? E.g. Shrewsbury, Bradford, Bristol City to name a random 3 With Bristol City 1982Ltd and Bradford City they have both been in the top division (Div 1 or Prem) and a long time in the Championship (Div 2), so they both have had success. With Shrewsbury for e.g and probably many other randomly selected teams there is not enough data to compare, Rovers do have a complete history to choose from.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2021 14:49:28 GMT
There could just be an analogy with Atkins however, who it seemed signed some decent players but couldn't get them performing, which Trolls did. But Trolls was already at the club Has B***** put together a decent ish squad that could perform for someone else?? Its basically his squad. From the Walsall scenes it doesn't appear that he has lost the dressing room. I think Trollope was more about Lawrence than him, see what happened when Lawrence left The real reason for the failure was Higgs installing himself as DOF and signing players against Trolls wishes. The bloke was a clown but I think I mentioned that once or twice before.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 4, 2021 16:57:00 GMT
Reasons for keeping B***** = 0 Reasons for sacking = endless Sack him now and we may go down Sack him now and we may go down? no. You would be sacking someone who is not a football manager and hasn’t a clue what he’s doing, and bring in an experienced head to push for the playoffs in a tight recession hit division where our spending power should be making a difference. There’s no footballing reason or excuse for anyone to still be backing B***** here now. Even far better managers than Joey like houghton have to go when it’s gone wrong like this, how he went from forest and the new voice has rejuvenated things. Just how good a football manager are you claiming B***** is? Looking at how B***** can’t read a football match in front of him, can’t react quickly enough when it’s not working, can’t change his own tactic when out thought by the other side, he’s not really a proper manager, just some mouthy bloke with a Twitter following and good agent. despite his clever silver tongued self promotion techniques, it’s looking like he has completely botched the transfer window and largess he has been given. We had more firepower before he began the upgrade! Tell me I’ve got that claim wrong. and with three centre backs every game he is not even sending us out there to win the midfield battle, it’s just deep relying on counter attack and clinging on, much like how Southgate blew it in the final. One of those CB swapped for a MF fit and aware enough to get tighter to their playmakers and stop them playing, and push our back four up to a higher line… I appreciate the thread and kick around these counter factuals - I have been doing the same for months till I took it as far as I could and it just became silly after Saturday. On B***** judged just as a manager, the jury is now in. There’s more than enough evidence. if Cocko came in tommorow and given the freedom and backing B***** has enjoyed, we would have a far better second half of season than if B***** stays. That’s now become a fact. Anymore games or weeks for B***** just wasted weeks. And to give Joey and not the new manager the window would be crazy.
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phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Oct 4, 2021 17:29:05 GMT
Saturday's defeat felt like JB's crewe / accrington moment. By which I mean the game when the wheels fell off the bus so visibly there's no way back.
Incidentally, crewe was when we lost 5-2 at home. Two games later and Buckle was gone. The accrington defeat led to the same fate for tisdale.
At best, we can hope for 0-0 v Carlisle on Saturday. Either way, I give JB two more games at the most.
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Post by sethstarkadder on Oct 4, 2021 17:42:50 GMT
I replied to this on the Swindon matchday thread (as you do). Basically: sack him.
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Post by laughinggas on Oct 4, 2021 17:42:59 GMT
But Cocko played 3 at the back. With two defensive wide men in the middle five. Relied very heavily on JCH for goals
I get you don't like 3 at the back but Swindon set out like that as well.
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phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Oct 4, 2021 17:59:06 GMT
But Cocko played 3 at the back. With two defensive wide men in the middle five. Relied very heavily on JCH for goals I get you don't like 3 at the back but Swindon set out like that as well. Yes and he took us to 4th in league one. It wasn't pretty but was at least effective. Evolution was then required. Instead we got garnerball clearout and now Joey has swept clean again. It's clear from the stats sited in emperor's original post that wholesale clearouts of players do not work. Good management is about working with what you have and then building on it.
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gasprom
Joined: January 2016
Posts: 335
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Post by gasprom on Oct 4, 2021 18:04:27 GMT
But Cocko played 3 at the back. With two defensive wide men in the middle five. Relied very heavily on JCH for goals I get you don't like 3 at the back but Swindon set out like that as well. Yes and he took us to 4th in league one. It wasn't pretty but was at least effective. Evolution was then required. Instead we got garnerball clearout and now Joey has swept clean again. It's clear from the stats sited in emperor's original post that wholesale clearouts of players do not work. Good management is about working with what you have and then building on it. Ironic that the post Coughlan new direction involved bringing through young players and selling them for a profit. The last manager to do that was Coughlan himself with JCH.
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 19:37:07 GMT
Saturday's defeat felt like JB's crewe / accrington moment. By which I mean the game when the wheels fell off the bus so visibly there's no way back. Incidentally, crewe was when we lost 5-2 at home. Two games later and Buckle was gone. The accrington defeat led to the same fate for tisdale. At best, we can hope for 0-0 v Carlisle on Saturday. Either way, I give JB two more games at the most. Hardly. The Orient result and performance was far worse.
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 19:39:03 GMT
Sack him now and we may go down Sack him now and we may go down? no. You would be sacking someone who is not a football manager and hasn’t a clue what he’s doing, and bring in an experienced head to push for the playoffs in a tight recession hit division where our spending power should be making a difference. There’s no footballing reason or excuse for anyone to still be backing B***** here now. Even far better managers than Joey like houghton have to go when it’s gone wrong like this, how he went from forest and the new voice has rejuvenated things. Just how good a football manager are you claiming B***** is? Looking at how B***** can’t read a football match in front of him, can’t react quickly enough when it’s not working, can’t change his own tactic when out thought by the other side, he’s not really a proper manager, just some mouthy bloke with a Twitter following and good agent. despite his clever silver tongued self promotion techniques, it’s looking like he has completely botched the transfer window and largess he has been given. We had more firepower before he began the upgrade! Tell me I’ve got that claim wrong. and with three centre backs every game he is not even sending us out there to win the midfield battle, it’s just deep relying on counter attack and clinging on, much like how Southgate blew it in the final. One of those CB swapped for a MF fit and aware enough to get tighter to their playmakers and stop them playing, and push our back four up to a higher line… I appreciate the thread and kick around these counter factuals - I have been doing the same for months till I took it as far as I could and it just became silly after Saturday. On B***** judged just as a manager, the jury is now in. There’s more than enough evidence. if Cocko came in tommorow and given the freedom and backing B***** has enjoyed, we would have a far better second half of season than if B***** stays. That’s now become a fact. Anymore games or weeks for B***** just wasted weeks. And to give Joey and not the new manager the window would be crazy. Did you go to Walsall? They can play well. He is closer than people give him credit for.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Oct 4, 2021 19:52:41 GMT
Keep him now and then what? The charlatan took us down last year. The relegation was down to him, not Tisdale and most certainly not Ben Garner. B***** out. 🙂 he's an easy target. Give him time.Hopefully a judge will.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 4, 2021 20:06:25 GMT
Sack him now and we may go down? no. You would be sacking someone who is not a football manager and hasn’t a clue what he’s doing, and bring in an experienced head to push for the playoffs in a tight recession hit division where our spending power should be making a difference. There’s no footballing reason or excuse for anyone to still be backing B***** here now. Even far better managers than Joey like houghton have to go when it’s gone wrong like this, how he went from forest and the new voice has rejuvenated things. Just how good a football manager are you claiming B***** is? Looking at how B***** can’t read a football match in front of him, can’t react quickly enough when it’s not working, can’t change his own tactic when out thought by the other side, he’s not really a proper manager, just some mouthy bloke with a Twitter following and good agent. despite his clever silver tongued self promotion techniques, it’s looking like he has completely botched the transfer window and largess he has been given. We had more firepower before he began the upgrade! Tell me I’ve got that claim wrong. and with three centre backs every game he is not even sending us out there to win the midfield battle, it’s just deep relying on counter attack and clinging on, much like how Southgate blew it in the final. One of those CB swapped for a MF fit and aware enough to get tighter to their playmakers and stop them playing, and push our back four up to a higher line… I appreciate the thread and kick around these counter factuals - I have been doing the same for months till I took it as far as I could and it just became silly after Saturday. On B***** judged just as a manager, the jury is now in. There’s more than enough evidence. if Cocko came in tommorow and given the freedom and backing B***** has enjoyed, we would have a far better second half of season than if B***** stays. That’s now become a fact. Anymore games or weeks for B***** just wasted weeks. And to give Joey and not the new manager the window would be crazy. Did you go to Walsall? They can play well. He is closer than people give him credit for. All failing managers have that day here and there where it goes well. Remember how bad last season was, you could pick 5 games where we looked like world beaters, a couple under Joey. No he is not that close, but you and anyone are entitled to your opinion. But we haven’t even had one day when it clicks yet. the wins we scraped are all against sides who will be in the mix for relegation, that does indicate performance level. My opinion I have patiently come to is based on monosyllabic tactics that are just not working. You can’t discern an idea or pattern that has come from working with the players, and his reacting to how sides are exploiting us just doesn’t exist. When you say close, do you honestly feel the upgraded squad, particularly the attacking part of it is better than last season? Do you honestly feel an experienced head who stands by his players, like Cocko, replaced Joey tomorrow , the rest of the season will be worse than if Joey stayed? Two questions for you there for you to stick what you believe on record.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,430
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 4, 2021 20:23:38 GMT
Sack him now and we may go down Sack him now and we may go down? no. You would be sacking someone who is not a football manager and hasn’t a clue what he’s doing, and bring in an experienced head to push for the playoffs in a tight recession hit division where our spending power should be making a difference. There’s no footballing reason or excuse for anyone to still be backing B***** here now. Even far better managers than Joey like houghton have to go when it’s gone wrong like this, how he went from forest and the new voice has rejuvenated things. Just how good a football manager are you claiming B***** is? Looking at how B***** can’t read a football match in front of him, can’t react quickly enough when it’s not working, can’t change his own tactic when out thought by the other side, he’s not really a proper manager, just some mouthy bloke with a Twitter following and good agent. despite his clever silver tongued self promotion techniques, it’s looking like he has completely botched the transfer window and largess he has been given. We had more firepower before he began the upgrade! Tell me I’ve got that claim wrong. and with three centre backs every game he is not even sending us out there to win the midfield battle, it’s just deep relying on counter attack and clinging on, much like how Southgate blew it in the final. One of those CB swapped for a MF fit and aware enough to get tighter to their playmakers and stop them playing, and push our back four up to a higher line… I appreciate the thread and kick around these counter factuals - I have been doing the same for months till I took it as far as I could and it just became silly after Saturday. On B***** judged just as a manager, the jury is now in. There’s more than enough evidence. if Cocko came in tommorow and given the freedom and backing B***** has enjoyed, we would have a far better second half of season than if B***** stays. That’s now become a fact. Anymore games or weeks for B***** just wasted weeks. And to give Joey and not the new manager the window would be crazy. Hang on superbus, what happened to your Mystic Meg predictions that were up and running a week or so ago? What’s happened to change your mind? UTG!
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 4, 2021 21:40:16 GMT
But Cocko played 3 at the back. With two defensive wide men in the middle five. Relied very heavily on JCH for goals I get you don't like 3 at the back but Swindon set out like that as well. Tch! There’s three at the back and then there’s three at the back. What you ask them to do changes the whole dynamic, makes instructions to the players very important. If you watch Chelsea doing it so well and think it’s easy, it ain’t. They play wide centre backs, and often have engagement lines not as deep as ours, where the wide centre backs get involved in play, underlapping, overlapping. Yes, 1) All centrebacks can be asked to do that, but some will do it lot better than others. Obviously. 2) as centre back is helping out, what then is clear instruction to wingback, fullback, go kamikaze run in support or cover the space behind? However you want to play it though you need to win the midfield battle, if Rovers team selection don’t have the sprint levels in midfield, go to back 4 and help the midfield out. No pressing means no performance likely crap result. Has sprint levels necessary for pressing been considered during recruitment and team selection? This isn’t modern fangled football, I recall clear as day Alan Ball lining up at Eastville for us and you could hear him shouting “keep it tight, keep it tight”. If we had kept the midfield battle tight last Saturday we would have stopped Swindon bossing it. It only takes awareness and the sprint level to get tight stay tight, which this years recruitment seems to have taken out the squad, not added to it.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 4, 2021 22:02:15 GMT
Sack him now and we may go down? no. You would be sacking someone who is not a football manager and hasn’t a clue what he’s doing, and bring in an experienced head to push for the playoffs in a tight recession hit division where our spending power should be making a difference. There’s no footballing reason or excuse for anyone to still be backing B***** here now. Even far better managers than Joey like houghton have to go when it’s gone wrong like this, how he went from forest and the new voice has rejuvenated things. Just how good a football manager are you claiming B***** is? Looking at how B***** can’t read a football match in front of him, can’t react quickly enough when it’s not working, can’t change his own tactic when out thought by the other side, he’s not really a proper manager, just some mouthy bloke with a Twitter following and good agent. despite his clever silver tongued self promotion techniques, it’s looking like he has completely botched the transfer window and largess he has been given. We had more firepower before he began the upgrade! Tell me I’ve got that claim wrong. and with three centre backs every game he is not even sending us out there to win the midfield battle, it’s just deep relying on counter attack and clinging on, much like how Southgate blew it in the final. One of those CB swapped for a MF fit and aware enough to get tighter to their playmakers and stop them playing, and push our back four up to a higher line… I appreciate the thread and kick around these counter factuals - I have been doing the same for months till I took it as far as I could and it just became silly after Saturday. On B***** judged just as a manager, the jury is now in. There’s more than enough evidence. if Cocko came in tommorow and given the freedom and backing B***** has enjoyed, we would have a far better second half of season than if B***** stays. That’s now become a fact. Anymore games or weeks for B***** just wasted weeks. And to give Joey and not the new manager the window would be crazy. Hang on superbus, what happened to your Mystic Meg predictions that were up and running a week or so ago? What’s happened to change your mind? UTG! Analyzing that block of fixtures changed my mind. I selected the block for a easier run of fixtures we should be getting points from, to make my predictions look good, the runs of fixtures get harder in the coming months after the Carlisle game IMO. firstly, the points were not adding up enough from this run of easier fixtures. And taken apart at home by O’s and Swindle is shocking. Sometimes results here and there can be a bit of a freak, but these weren’t were they? We were dominated and taken apart. And then out come the same tactics and formations to be flogged all over again. And then there is lack of bounce back ability in performance. we haven’t even had one day when it clicks yet. the wins we scraped are all against sides who will be in the mix for relegation, that does indicate our performance level. so it adds up to thinking, a slump could be on the cards, get a different voice in before it does. It’s not the most unreasonable or shocking thing is it to ask for a different voice for the players, when a manager has been this bad for so long? ive tried to be as fair as possible, and just ignored the stick was getting for divorcing the man from the manager, judge him as best I could this season on his management. I have come to the opinion there isn’t a decent manager there. Not in recruitment, coaching, organising, inspiring, game management. Is there anyone who will defend his match management? I would be surprised if he goes elsewhere and achieves any sort of success. Does that answer your question?
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 22:06:52 GMT
Did you go to Walsall? They can play well. He is closer than people give him credit for. All failing managers have that day here and there where it goes well. Remember how bad last season was, you could pick 5 games where we looked like world beaters, a couple under Joey. No he is not that close, but you and anyone are entitled to your opinion. But we haven’t even had one day when it clicks yet. the wins we scraped are all against sides who will be in the mix for relegation, that does indicate performance level. My opinion I have patiently come to is based on monosyllabic tactics that are just not working. You can’t discern an idea or pattern that has come from working with the players, and his reacting to how sides are exploiting us just doesn’t exist. When you say close, do you honestly feel the upgraded squad, particularly the attacking part of it is better than last season? Do you honestly feel an experienced head who stands by his players, like Cocko, replaced Joey tomorrow , the rest of the season will be worse than if Joey stayed? Two questions for you there for you to stick what you believe on record. I think if he is sacked now, we have a different conversation. He is here, and we keep sacking managers and we never give them the time. The brave thing to do is give him the 2nd window. There are 2 worse teams than us. A lot has to happen for the 2nd window thing to happen mind. Him not getting sacked, therefore this squad will likely win on Saturday. He gets found not guilty twice. I say we're not far away because I observed that Swindon were very good. I didn't go to Orient but I did go to Walsall. We defended well on Saturday and they wore us down. Taylor going off was key. Had we won we would have been on 13 points and we did score a very good goal. It's just one of those you accept and move on. I expect a better result on Saturday. I was gutted when Coughlan left, I was one of the few on here who supported him. He had the team hungry for the starting 11. I don't like the way B***** sets this team up. I am 3-5-2 man as is well documented on here. Anderson does not track back, he is not asked to. It leaves us open. I thought Brown looked tidy Saturday. Hopefully we'll get some injured players back soon. Trevor Clarke, any chance? I think we could do with cancelling Jakkiolas contract while we're there. Football is all about opinions and I rate Coutts as well. I am not playing devil's advocate.
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Post by mangogas15 on Oct 4, 2021 22:08:16 GMT
But Cocko played 3 at the back. With two defensive wide men in the middle five. Relied very heavily on JCH for goals I get you don't like 3 at the back but Swindon set out like that as well. Tch! There’s three at the back and then there’s three at the back. What you ask them to do changes the whole dynamic, makes instructions to the players very important. If you watch Chelsea doing it so well and think it’s easy, it ain’t. They play wide centre backs, and often have engagement lines not as deep as ours, where the wide centre backs get involved in play, underlapping, overlapping. Yes, 1) All centrebacks can be asked to do that, but some will do it lot better than others. Obviously. 2) as centre back is helping out, what then is clear instruction to wingback, fullback, go kamikaze run in support or cover the space behind? However you want to play it though you need to win the midfield battle, if Rovers team selection don’t have the sprint levels in midfield, go to back 4 and help the midfield out. No pressing means no performance likely crap result. Has sprint levels necessary for pressing been considered during recruitment and team selection? This isn’t modern fangled football, I recall clear as day Alan Ball lining up at Eastville for us and you could hear him shouting “keep it tight, keep it tight”. If we had kept the midfield battle tight last Saturday we would have stopped Swindon bossing it. It only takes awareness and the sprint level to get tight stay tight, which this years recruitment seems to have taken out the squad, not added to it. 3 at the back that becomes 3-3-4 when we have the ball and 5-3-2 when we don't. That's the simplest. Leave 2 up all game to stop their defence coming out too much.
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