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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 4, 2021 22:28:18 GMT
All failing managers have that day here and there where it goes well. Remember how bad last season was, you could pick 5 games where we looked like world beaters, a couple under Joey. No he is not that close, but you and anyone are entitled to your opinion. But we haven’t even had one day when it clicks yet. the wins we scraped are all against sides who will be in the mix for relegation, that does indicate performance level. My opinion I have patiently come to is based on monosyllabic tactics that are just not working. You can’t discern an idea or pattern that has come from working with the players, and his reacting to how sides are exploiting us just doesn’t exist. When you say close, do you honestly feel the upgraded squad, particularly the attacking part of it is better than last season? Do you honestly feel an experienced head who stands by his players, like Cocko, replaced Joey tomorrow , the rest of the season will be worse than if Joey stayed? Two questions for you there for you to stick what you believe on record. I think if he is sacked now, we have a different conversation. He is here, and we keep sacking managers and we never give them the time. The brave thing to do is give him the 2nd window. There are 2 worse teams than us. A lot has to happen for the 2nd window thing to happen mind. Him not getting sacked, therefore this squad will likely win on Saturday. He gets found not guilty twice. I say we're not far away because I observed that Swindon were very good. I didn't go to Orient but I did go to Walsall. We defended well on Saturday and they wore us down. Taylor going off was key. Had we won we would have been on 13 points and we did score a very good goal. It's just one of those you accept and move on. I expect a better result on Saturday. I was gutted when Coughlan left, I was one of the few on here who supported him. He had the team hungry for the starting 11. I don't like the way B***** sets this team up. I am 3-5-2 man as is well documented on here. Anderson does not track back, he is not asked to. It leaves us open. I thought Brown looked tidy Saturday. Hopefully we'll get some injured players back soon. Trevor Clarke, any chance? I think we could do with cancelling Jakkiolas contract while we're there. Football is all about opinions and I rate Coutts as well. I am not playing devil's advocate. “we never give them the time. “ I have used that argument. But he has had quite a few games to assess him, and performances as well as results have been very bad. And a whole load of tick boxes suggesting he can turn it about can have a cross in them now too is it fair to say? He’s good at match management? He’s good at recruitment? He’s good at tactics and reacting when it’s not working? My latest bold prediction is he isn’t here on Saturday. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 4, 2021 22:42:22 GMT
Tch! There’s three at the back and then there’s three at the back. What you ask them to do changes the whole dynamic, makes instructions to the players very important. If you watch Chelsea doing it so well and think it’s easy, it ain’t. They play wide centre backs, and often have engagement lines not as deep as ours, where the wide centre backs get involved in play, underlapping, overlapping. Yes, 1) All centrebacks can be asked to do that, but some will do it lot better than others. Obviously. 2) as centre back is helping out, what then is clear instruction to wingback, fullback, go kamikaze run in support or cover the space behind? However you want to play it though you need to win the midfield battle, if Rovers team selection don’t have the sprint levels in midfield, go to back 4 and help the midfield out. No pressing means no performance likely crap result. Has sprint levels necessary for pressing been considered during recruitment and team selection? This isn’t modern fangled football, I recall clear as day Alan Ball lining up at Eastville for us and you could hear him shouting “keep it tight, keep it tight”. If we had kept the midfield battle tight last Saturday we would have stopped Swindon bossing it. It only takes awareness and the sprint level to get tight stay tight, which this years recruitment seems to have taken out the squad, not added to it. 3 at the back that becomes 3-3-4 when we have the ball and 5-3-2 when we don't. That's the simplest. Leave 2 up all game to stop their defence coming out too much. “3 at the back that becomes 3-3-4 when we have the ball” I agree it looks good like that on the chalk board. But that depends on the mechanics of transition, you agree, you are talking about achieving transition? transition depends on holding ball, getting and holding ball depends on press and winning midfield battle, press depends on nothing more complicated than sprint levels and know how to be tight to someone, holding ball depends mostly on options to knock it to, in the way we have been playing 3 at back that option to knock it to to keep possession is, a centre back. Killer tries, and is a better passer than Harries IMO. But Beckenbuer or Platini he isn’t yet at this stage of his career. Let’s start with our analysts stats for sprint levels and keeping it tight in midfield in the side B***** has been fielding these last few games. If you had to guess, how do you think those stats look? |
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phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Oct 5, 2021 11:11:18 GMT
The bookies put us among the favourites at the start of the season - presumably based on the squad rather than the manager. Bearing that in mind (and that we have a number of attacking players out injured), do you think there is light at the end of the tunnel - as long as we get a new manager?  |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 5, 2021 12:17:55 GMT
The bookies put us among the favourites at the start of the season - presumably based on the squad rather than the manager. Bearing that in mind (and that we have a number of attacking players out injured), do you think there is light at the end of the tunnel - as long as we get a new manager? to be honest Phil, a lot of the players haven’t played ten games yet, so harsh judgement on them would be harsh. We have had a lot longer to assess manager and he makes same mistakes over and over without much clue how to get it right. If you force me to make a call on this squad today though, bearing in mind a lot of clubs, such as Swindon rebuilt heavily too and already getting it together, this does look and feel like a worse squad than last season. Doesn’t it? Take example of complete lack of press from us in game after game, is that down to too many players whose limits at sprint and getting tight either was never their game, or fading out of their game? So we may have downgraded our squad in terms of sprint and press? And then there’s a whole load of similar attributes, height, speed, strength etc. Our furthest guy forward isn’t going to run in behind anyone is he? Think about when we had a better side, there was the lung busting Sinclair the forever in motion strike partners dream Nichols, who are their equivalents in this team? Both Linsey and Sercs could pass and open defences up, who are their equivalents. Jono’s strength was his strength, who is his equivalent? Surely the whole point in being rude about and swapping out an entire squad is that it’s noticeably better. Surely first ten games of last season was noticeably better than this? By a country mile in performances. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 5, 2021 12:28:17 GMT
The bookies put us among the favourites at the start of the season - presumably based on the squad rather than the manager. Bearing that in mind (and that we have a number of attacking players out injured), do you think there is light at the end of the tunnel - as long as we get a new manager? to be honest Phil, a lot of the players haven’t played ten games yet, so harsh judgement on them would be harsh. We have had a lot longer to assess manager and he makes same mistakes over and over without much clue how to get it right. If you force me to make a call on this squad today though, bearing in mind a lot of clubs, such as Swindon rebuilt heavily too and already getting it together, this does look and feel like a worse squad than last season. Doesn’t it? Take example of complete lack of press from us in game after game, is that down to too many players whose limits at sprint and getting tight either was never their game, or fading out of their game? So we may have downgraded our squad in terms of sprint and press? And then there’s a whole load of similar attributes, height, speed, strength etc. Our furthest guy forward isn’t going to run in behind anyone is he? Think about when we had a better side, there was the lung busting Sinclair the forever in motion strike partners dream Nichols, who are their equivalents in this team? Both Linsey and Sercs could pass and open defences up, who are their equivalents. Jono’s strength was his strength, who is his equivalent? Surely the whole point in being rude about and swapping out an entire squad is that it’s noticeably better. Surely first ten games of last season was noticeably better than this? By a country mile in performances. To give Joey some respect, its B***** who himself has set Ben Garner as the yardstick he should be measured against. So it’s first ten games in this basement versus first ten game at higher division last year, two rebuilt squads which is being managed best and proving better rebuild, whose handling media better, whose building a fan base rather than losing it. Anyone got any positive measures for Joey in Joey versus Ben? Although called a Novice, Garner at least had years of recent experience as top coach and number two in top two divisions, Joey’s never really had any of that grounding in coaching in management, so it’s hardly a shock how it’s turned out really is it? |
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,430 
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 5, 2021 14:31:41 GMT
Hang on superbus, what happened to your Mystic Meg predictions that were up and running a week or so ago? What’s happened to change your mind? UTG! Analyzing that block of fixtures changed my mind. I selected the block for a easier run of fixtures we should be getting points from, to make my predictions look good, the runs of fixtures get harder in the coming months after the Carlisle game IMO. firstly, the points were not adding up enough from this run of easier fixtures. And taken apart at home by O’s and Swindle is shocking. Sometimes results here and there can be a bit of a freak, but these weren’t were they? We were dominated and taken apart. And then out come the same tactics and formations to be flogged all over again. And then there is lack of bounce back ability in performance. we haven’t even had one day when it clicks yet. the wins we scraped are all against sides who will be in the mix for relegation, that does indicate our performance level. so it adds up to thinking, a slump could be on the cards, get a different voice in before it does. It’s not the most unreasonable or shocking thing is it to ask for a different voice for the players, when a manager has been this bad for so long? ive tried to be as fair as possible, and just ignored the stick was getting for divorcing the man from the manager, judge him as best I could this season on his management. I have come to the opinion there isn’t a decent manager there. Not in recruitment, coaching, organising, inspiring, game management. Is there anyone who will defend his match management? I would be surprised if he goes elsewhere and achieves any sort of success. Does that answer your question? Yes, it does answer it. Thank you! I was just surprised after you’d supported JB in the face of some strong counter opinions. You did a complete u-turn in a about a week and came to the same conclusion others did weeks ago but you’ve explained it well.👏👏👏 UTG! |
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,430
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 5, 2021 14:37:32 GMT
Tch! There’s three at the back and then there’s three at the back. What you ask them to do changes the whole dynamic, makes instructions to the players very important. If you watch Chelsea doing it so well and think it’s easy, it ain’t. They play wide centre backs, and often have engagement lines not as deep as ours, where the wide centre backs get involved in play, underlapping, overlapping. Yes, 1) All centrebacks can be asked to do that, but some will do it lot better than others. Obviously. 2) as centre back is helping out, what then is clear instruction to wingback, fullback, go kamikaze run in support or cover the space behind? However you want to play it though you need to win the midfield battle, if Rovers team selection don’t have the sprint levels in midfield, go to back 4 and help the midfield out. No pressing means no performance likely crap result. Has sprint levels necessary for pressing been considered during recruitment and team selection? This isn’t modern fangled football, I recall clear as day Alan Ball lining up at Eastville for us and you could hear him shouting “keep it tight, keep it tight”. If we had kept the midfield battle tight last Saturday we would have stopped Swindon bossing it. It only takes awareness and the sprint level to get tight stay tight, which this years recruitment seems to have taken out the squad, not added to it. 3 at the back that becomes 3-3-4 when we have the ball and 5-3-2 when we don't. That's the simplest. Leave 2 up all game to stop their defence coming out too much. Yep, more or less that. JB is too stubborn, seeing us get found out with 3 at the back I’m surprised (perhaps not) that he hasn’t gone to a back 4, it make us more stable. Play 442 which as you say can become 532 or 451 when we don’t have the ball but when we do it’s more attacking. Keep it simple. Get some wins and get a mid table position and then when we have some confidence start to change things slowly if needed to the style he wants. I guess the big problem is does he have the players to play with a back 4 or even 442? UTG! |
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Oct 5, 2021 20:39:57 GMT
Search "Nedum Onuoha on Joey B*****" on YouTube and tell me that this guy holds scrutiny as appropriate for football management.
So insightful after what we have had to endure...
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Post by chelt_gas on Oct 5, 2021 21:35:47 GMT
Search "Nedum Onuoha on Joey B*****" on YouTube and tell me that this guy holds scrutiny as appropriate for football management. So insightful after what we have had to endure... Also search Danny Mills and Joey B*****. Onouha and Mills both paint a picture of the most innappropriate guy to appoint to a management position. |
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gasprom
Joined: January 2016
Posts: 335
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Post by gasprom on Oct 5, 2021 21:55:26 GMT
Search "Nedum Onuoha on Joey B*****" on YouTube and tell me that this guy holds scrutiny as appropriate for football management. So insightful after what we have had to endure... Very interesting: “We were in Ireland pre-season. Harry wanted to play three at the back and two holders as well. But Joey was adamant that Harry was getting it wrong. As players you have to listen to your coach. “We went a few days and he started to sabotage it. He wouldn’t do it properly. Joey told everyone in front of Harry it wouldn’t work and, come the start of the season, we played a different formation.” |
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Oct 6, 2021 7:55:54 GMT
Search "Nedum Onuoha on Joey B*****" on YouTube and tell me that this guy holds scrutiny as appropriate for football management. So insightful after what we have had to endure... Very interesting: “We were in Ireland pre-season. Harry wanted to play three at the back and two holders as well. But Joey was adamant that Harry was getting it wrong. As players you have to listen to your coach. “We went a few days and he started to sabotage it. He wouldn’t do it properly. Joey told everyone in front of Harry it wouldn’t work and, come the start of the season, we played a different formation.” Plus forming a clique to bully players who had joined QPR from abroad. Sounds familiar? Use the weakness of others e.g. Wael, to point fingers at everyone bar him. Surrounds himself with fellow gang members? Also accused of him getting Colin the sack at QPR. A conceited man. A narcissist. Underhand. A proven hot-head. But apart from that.... Could you ever expect players to trust him? |
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Post by chelt_gas on Oct 6, 2021 8:24:48 GMT
Very interesting: “We were in Ireland pre-season. Harry wanted to play three at the back and two holders as well. But Joey was adamant that Harry was getting it wrong. As players you have to listen to your coach. “We went a few days and he started to sabotage it. He wouldn’t do it properly. Joey told everyone in front of Harry it wouldn’t work and, come the start of the season, we played a different formation.” Plus forming a clique to bully players who had joined QPR from abroad. Sounds familiar? Use the weakness of others e.g. Wael, to point fingers at everyone bar him. Surrounds himself with fellow gang members? Also accused of him getting Colin the sack at QPR. A conceited man. A narcissist. Underhand. A proven hot-head. But apart from that.... Could you ever expect players to trust him? Explains why so many were happy to get away. They weren’t pushed, they ran away!! |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2021 9:34:31 GMT
Plus forming a clique to bully players who had joined QPR from abroad. Sounds familiar? Use the weakness of others e.g. Wael, to point fingers at everyone bar him. Surrounds himself with fellow gang members? Also accused of him getting Colin the sack at QPR. A conceited man. A narcissist. Underhand. A proven hot-head. But apart from that.... Could you ever expect players to trust him? Explains why so many were happy to get away. They weren’t pushed, they ran away!! The difficulty is separating B***** the human being from B***** the football person. From the Walsall scenes he hasn't lost the dressing room, but I think the issue of trust is really important and probably a deciding factor for many. That doesn't mean he doesn't know his football though: www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/harry-redknapp-says-joey-B*****-managerial-material-and-he-has-never-met-anyone-him-9433394.html |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2021 9:55:54 GMT
The same Redknapp who has almost as many corruption charges against him as B***** has charges relating to violence? They deserve each other. |
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Post by tanksfull on Oct 6, 2021 10:11:32 GMT
IMO a manager that is on around 40% win rate is doing a good job, if we look at our managers for just this century these are the stats: 1..Gerry Francis in two spells was 39.6% 2..John Ward in two spells was 40.4% 3..Ian Holloway 36.9% 4..Garry Thompson 29.8% 5..Ray Graydon 27.2% 6..Ian Atkins 30.9% 7..Paul Trollope 37.3% 8..Dave Penney 15.4% 9..Paul Buckle 27.5% 10..Mark McGhee 26.6% 11..Darrell Clarke 42.3% 12..Graham Coughlan 44.6% 13..Ben Garner 18.2% 14..Paul Tisdale 26.3% 15..Joey B***** 23.3% Out of those 15 permanent managers for only this century, only 3 have that 40% figure. There is something fundamentally wrong with the BRFC BOARD over the years choosing managers. For the whole of our managerial history only 4 others have got to that 40% mark, they are: Ben Hall - 42.2% Bert Tann - 41.1% Bill Dodgin Sr - 44.2% David Williams - 47.2% My heart kind of sinks whenever there is a mass clearout. I can recall when Graydon took over he ditched everyone, I think literally every player was out of contract. Buckle did the same. As did Garner And now JB. It never goes well. The problem with this is that its well known only a % of new signings ever come off, say 6/10, so if you change the whole squad there will always be a significant number of players who don't work out /dont settle/take time etc. And in ditching the manager at that point you then potentially make the problem worse by having a new bloke with different ideas. if you think back to last season, Garners players ended up with Tisdale then B*****, both with different ideas. No wonder they were all over the shop come the end. Anyone thinking just sacking JB fixes things may find they are disappointed. The personal issues surrounding peoples thoughts on JB just make it all the more complex. The whole idea of having a Rovers "DNA" (which I totally agree with) is (was) surely to stop the ridiculous clear outs when a manager changes. Bring in a manager that fits the style of play and Club philosophy. You can then have a squad of players with Rovers characteristics. Yes there will always be slight adjustments and anomalies but there should never need to be wholesale changes.
Even at our level managers should be far more sophisticated than need to change everything. If everything needs changing it's not the manager that's wrong.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2021 10:25:19 GMT
My heart kind of sinks whenever there is a mass clearout. I can recall when Graydon took over he ditched everyone, I think literally every player was out of contract. Buckle did the same. As did Garner And now JB. It never goes well. The problem with this is that its well known only a % of new signings ever come off, say 6/10, so if you change the whole squad there will always be a significant number of players who don't work out /dont settle/take time etc. And in ditching the manager at that point you then potentially make the problem worse by having a new bloke with different ideas. if you think back to last season, Garners players ended up with Tisdale then B*****, both with different ideas. No wonder they were all over the shop come the end. Anyone thinking just sacking JB fixes things may find they are disappointed. The personal issues surrounding peoples thoughts on JB just make it all the more complex. The whole idea of having a Rovers "DNA" (which I totally agree with) is (was) surely to stop the ridiculous clear outs when a manager changes. Bring in a manager that fits the style of play and Club philosophy. You can then have a squad of players with Rovers characteristics. Yes there will always be slight adjustments and anomalies but there should never need to be wholesale changes.
Even at our level managers should be far more sophisticated than need to change everything. If everything needs changing it's not the manager that's wrong.
I think the idea behind the Garner model was probably sound, but unfortunately the execution was a massive cock up. I think clear accountability was missing, especially on recruitment, Widdrington probably had too much say (I believe he clashed with Coughlan) and as a result I doubt the club was all on the same page. Big error for me was not insisting on a Lennie Lawrence type assistant. But lets be honest, few wanted Garner to stay, he appeared out of his depth to all of us, whatever people may say now. Once the club finds some stability (unlikely under JB one would think) the 'DNA' model may return. |
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Post by sethstarkadder on Oct 6, 2021 13:03:24 GMT
The whole idea of having a Rovers "DNA" (which I totally agree with) is (was) surely to stop the ridiculous clear outs when a manager changes. Bring in a manager that fits the style of play and Club philosophy. You can then have a squad of players with Rovers characteristics. Yes there will always be slight adjustments and anomalies but there should never need to be wholesale changes.
Even at our level managers should be far more sophisticated than need to change everything. If everything needs changing it's not the manager that's wrong.
I think the idea behind the Garner model was probably sound, but unfortunately the execution was a massive cock up. I think clear accountability was missing, especially on recruitment, Widdrington probably had too much say (I believe he clashed with Coughlan) and as a result I doubt the club was all on the same page. Big error for me was not insisting on a Lennie Lawrence type assistant. But lets be honest, few wanted Garner to stay, he appeared out of his depth to all of us, whatever people may say now. Once the club finds some stability (unlikely under JB one would think) the 'DNA' model may return. The wrong man went. If you bring in a man with a philosophy, plan, and long experience at well performing clubs, don’t make him subject to input and veto from a know-nowt and let that man whisper with the players. And if you do, don’t immediately do it again. And if you do, don’t then appoint a playground bully who will bus in his mates and ostracise anyone who isn’t in his gang as if he’s running a pub team in Huyton, while leaving the know-nowt on the payroll as Head of Paperclips while awaiting a return to his previous privileges. |
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Oct 9, 2021 8:27:11 GMT
Well, this petered out quite quickly, nowhere near the 77 pages, and counting, in the thread Joey B***** is unfit to manage Bristol Rovers.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Oct 9, 2021 17:11:59 GMT
Well, this petered out quite quickly, nowhere near the 77 pages, and counting, in the thread Joey B***** is unfit to manage Bristol Rovers. early days 😆 |
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Post by richmace on Oct 9, 2021 17:51:41 GMT
Today was another good example of why we have struggled this season, we are a very poor League Two side, that creates very few chances. The two late goals paper over the cracks, nothing more. Hopefully we can build on today and generate some momentum (and confidence). Then, who knows...
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