Rex
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Post by Rex on Jul 14, 2019 6:27:16 GMT
I know that Bolton will be starting on -12 next season but does anyone know what's going on with Bury? There was talk of them getting the same punishment.
Every little helps!
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GasMacc1
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Post by GasMacc1 on Jul 14, 2019 7:42:30 GMT
From BBC Sport, 4 days ago: Link to BBC SPort article on Bury CVA planBury's creditors have asked for more time to consider a rescue plan to clear some of the League One club's debts.
Owner Steve Dale put forward a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) proposal in June which would see the club's football creditors paid in full.
Unsecured creditors, including HM Revenue and Customs, would be paid 25% of the money owed.
Creditors will now hold further negotiations before meeting on Thursday, 18 July.
If approved, the CVA would qualify as an insolvency event under English Football League rules, which would see Bury deducted points.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 17, 2019 10:06:18 GMT
I know that Bolton will be starting on -12 next season but does anyone know what's going on with Bury? There was talk of them getting the same punishment. Every little helps! Bottom line is that they are in an even worse mess than Bolton. Bury fans aren't worried about a 12 point deduction anymore - if they get their act together the 12 point deduction will probably be inevitable. The reason it hasn't been imposed is that they haven't even managed to get enough clarity around their finances to even get to that stage. What Bury fans are worried about is whether they will actually have a club to support at all - spoke to 2 last week and it's looking very bleak right now. OK history tells us there's always someone out there willing to step in at the last minute and prevent oblivion but the people I spoke to don't really think there is this time.
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Post by Curly Wurly on Jul 18, 2019 11:51:38 GMT
I think we can seriously question whether Bolton will be able to fulfil their fixtures come August. Players not paid for 5 months and complaining of little communication from the administrators. Away pre-season friendly at Chester cancelled and apparently the few players still in contract turned up for pre-season training only to find the training ground locked up. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49018548 Whilst Bury are also facing major financial challenges, I'm guessing their debts are nowhere near as large as Bolton's
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GasMacc1
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Post by GasMacc1 on Jul 18, 2019 12:01:39 GMT
12:00-ish BBC Radio Manchester tweeted:
It is understood that the CVA meeting proposed by #BuryFC has been adjourned for an hour as they try to strike a deal with one of the largest creditors, Mederco.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 18, 2019 13:32:41 GMT
I think we can seriously question whether Bolton will be able to fulfil their fixtures come August. Players not paid for 5 months and complaining of little communication from the administrators. Away pre-season friendly at Chester cancelled and apparently the few players still in contract turned up for pre-season training only to find the training ground locked up. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49018548 Whilst Bury are also facing major financial challenges, I'm guessing their debts are nowhere near as large as Bolton's True but they're also a much smaller club with much more modest prospects. At least someone taking over Bolton could conceive a situation where the club might rebound and could see commercial potential there - a mammoth task but not completely impossible despite the debt mountain. Bury live permanently on the precipice of collapse - to some extent this is business as usual for them but they still face a long run sustainability crisis which will likely doom them eventually no matter who runs them. They are a historic club with League 1/League 2 level expectations but a Conference North sized fanbase and falling levels of local interest. I actually think they are both in deep deep trouble here and we could see the first in-season (which technically I think this counts as now since we've ticked over into the 2019/2020 calender) football league club to fold since Aldershot.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Jul 18, 2019 14:34:55 GMT
While I feel for both clubs, nobody wants clubs to fold, it could easily be us, they will probably fill 2 of the bottom 4 positions making it only the 2 to avoid.
Hopefully we will be nowhere near those 2 places at any time this season.
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Igitur
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Post by Igitur on Jul 18, 2019 14:38:43 GMT
I think we can seriously question whether Bolton will be able to fulfil their fixtures come August. Players not paid for 5 months and complaining of little communication from the administrators. Away pre-season friendly at Chester cancelled and apparently the few players still in contract turned up for pre-season training only to find the training ground locked up. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49018548 Whilst Bury are also facing major financial challenges, I'm guessing their debts are nowhere near as large as Bolton's True but they're also a much smaller club with much more modest prospects. At least someone taking over Bolton could conceive a situation where the club might rebound and could see commercial potential there - a mammoth task but not completely impossible despite the debt mountain. Bury live permanently on the precipice of collapse - to some extent this is business as usual for them but they still face a long run sustainability crisis which will likely doom them eventually no matter who runs them. They are a historic club with League 1/League 2 level expectations but a Conference North sized fanbase and falling levels of local interest. I actually think they are both in deep deep trouble here and we could see the first in-season (which technically I think this counts as now since we've ticked over into the 2019/2020 calender) football league club to fold since Aldershot. Listening to that wet lettuce Gordon Taylor this morning on the radio, Bolton's position is dire. Any monies spent by administrators get collected as part of the buy out, so they are spending the minimum to the extent that there is no hot water for showers or cold water bottles for training and unpaid wages would not be a pressing issue for the new buyer and players may have to wait up to two years. He said the club could go under, but with that stadium with office space rented by firms built into one end and all the extra goodies like meeting rooms, gyms etc, I would think that's unlikely; that kind of stadium is what many Rovers' fans want. So far though likely buyers have hardly been football supporters.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 18, 2019 15:03:22 GMT
True but they're also a much smaller club with much more modest prospects. At least someone taking over Bolton could conceive a situation where the club might rebound and could see commercial potential there - a mammoth task but not completely impossible despite the debt mountain. Bury live permanently on the precipice of collapse - to some extent this is business as usual for them but they still face a long run sustainability crisis which will likely doom them eventually no matter who runs them. They are a historic club with League 1/League 2 level expectations but a Conference North sized fanbase and falling levels of local interest. I actually think they are both in deep deep trouble here and we could see the first in-season (which technically I think this counts as now since we've ticked over into the 2019/2020 calender) football league club to fold since Aldershot. Listening to that wet lettuce Gordon Taylor this morning on the radio, Bolton's position is dire. Any monies spent by administrators get collected as part of the buy out, so they are spending the minimum to the extent that there is no hot water for showers or cold water bottles for training and unpaid wages would not be a pressing issue for the new buyer and players may have to wait up to two years. He said the club could go under, but with that stadium with office space rented by firms built into one end and all the extra goodies like meeting rooms, gyms etc, I would think that's unlikely; that kind of stadium is what many Rovers' fans want. So far though likely buyers have hardly been football supporters. I imagine the hotel and conference facilities are probably more appealing to any buyers than taking on a football team
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Post by mangogas15 on Jul 18, 2019 19:49:35 GMT
Basically the only way to feel IMO is happy for Rovers that we are already 12 pts clear of two teams.
Makes it easier for us.
Selfish but no one would feel sorry for us.
No one did when we went down to the Conference.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 18, 2019 21:51:41 GMT
Listening to that wet lettuce Gordon Taylor this morning on the radio, Bolton's position is dire. Any monies spent by administrators get collected as part of the buy out, so they are spending the minimum to the extent that there is no hot water for showers or cold water bottles for training and unpaid wages would not be a pressing issue for the new buyer and players may have to wait up to two years. He said the club could go under, but with that stadium with office space rented by firms built into one end and all the extra goodies like meeting rooms, gyms etc, I would think that's unlikely; that kind of stadium is what many Rovers' fans want. So far though likely buyers have hardly been football supporters. I imagine the hotel and conference facilities are probably more appealing to any buyers than taking on a football team Just back from the north west (Manchester specifically). Hotel and conference facilities in Bolton? Really? It's still pretty grim up north. Bury, Rochdale, Oldham, Blackburn, Wigan, Stockport etc... I wish them well. But I think that the EFL might look radically different in 5-10 years (in fact Stockport having been 'through it' once, are probably in a better place than the others). It's just not sustainable. Not for them, not for us.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 18, 2019 22:25:47 GMT
I imagine the hotel and conference facilities are probably more appealing to any buyers than taking on a football team Just back from the north west (Manchester specifically). Hotel and conference facilities in Bolton? Really? It's still pretty grim up north. Bury, Rochdale, Oldham, Blackburn, Wigan, Stockport etc... I wish them well. But I think that the EFL might look radically different in 5-10 years (in fact Stockport having been 'through it' once, are probably in a better place than the others). It's just not sustainable. Not for them, not for us. There's some truth in that but it really depends. Manchester itself is booming - it's not inconceivable the periphery could feel the benefit of that at some point. I'd worry for Oldham particularly because their fanbase is basically dying out. Bury has a similar problem but is quite a posh town in many ways so there's always the chance of money knocking around somewhere for them. I think some kind of football club will survive in Bury but maybe not a League one. Rochdale cut their cloth pretty well and have never had ideas above their station anyway so this is not new for them - this is just what they are and they're pretty good at it. Wigan was a tinpot club till Whealen stuck all the money in and underneath it all is still a tinpot club but a rich one now - everyone I know from Wigan supports Blackburn! Stockport is an odd one - nearest club to me and more supporters than you'd realise (it's really quite a big place and unlike other Greater Manchester (GM) towns bits of it are quite wealthy and booming). There's also far more of a 'we're not Manchester' identity about Stockport than the other places. So there's definitely potential for them to bounce back at some point but they've dug themselves an enormous hole which probably needs big investment to climb out of now. Don't underestimate the historical community power of those East Lancs clubs - I wouldn't put them in the same bracket as the struggling GM towns. There's a reason Burnley and Blackburn punch above their weight and Accrington continue to survive and they're sufficiently far from Manchester and Liverpool that they aren't haemorraging young fans to the Prem giants in same way - that's the main problem the GM clubs are up against. I know 2 hardcore Bury fans - all their kids support United or City and have no interest in their parent's team.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 18, 2019 23:18:26 GMT
Interesting what you’ve said irish about the GM clubs. And you’ve done it without even mentioning Salford. I see them doing well as a vanity club for all the ex-Man U players and hangers on that have been attracted to them. Their support looks to be still embarrassingly low and with so much competition in the area unlikely to grow. Yet they will do well because in Gary Neville they have a driving force that the other class of 92 aren’t. He will, with Peter Lim drive the club forward and as long as the “project” continues they will provide the finance. Once Peter Lim’s money or his motivation dries up so will the club. Is there even a fanbase the size of Rochdale or Bury there? The attendance at Wembley for the National Final was embarrassing. If the fans can’t get themselves up for that they will struggle when they have a few bad results in League 2. But if that happens, Neville and the rest will throw Peter Lim’s money at the team and will survive but in front of crowds of 2000. Spent some time in south Manchester once upon a time and Stockport was a sizeable community but I never thought Salford was and it’s become more gentrified so I don’t know if it’s got the fanbase to grow.
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Jul 19, 2019 5:49:52 GMT
I imagine the hotel and conference facilities are probably more appealing to any buyers than taking on a football team Just back from the north west (Manchester specifically). Hotel and conference facilities in Bolton? Really? It's still pretty grim up north. Bury, Rochdale, Oldham, Blackburn, Wigan, Stockport etc... I wish them well. But I think that the EFL might look radically different in 5-10 years (in fact Stockport having been 'through it' once, are probably in a better place than the others). It's just not sustainable. Not for them, not for us. Why not? I stay in hotels at least once a week and most of them are in commercial areas, I would imagine workers outnumber tourists in most hotels in the country. Mind you, Bolton don't actually play in Bolton any more.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Jul 19, 2019 6:21:29 GMT
Southampton turned 12 points around
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Post by mangogas15 on Jul 19, 2019 8:29:48 GMT
Southampton turned 12 points around And Leeds i seem to remember
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jul 19, 2019 13:07:35 GMT
Interesting what you’ve said irish about the GM clubs. And you’ve done it without even mentioning Salford. I see them doing well as a vanity club for all the ex-Man U players and hangers on that have been attracted to them. Their support looks to be still embarrassingly low and with so much competition in the area unlikely to grow. Yet they will do well because in Gary Neville they have a driving force that the other class of 92 aren’t. He will, with Peter Lim drive the club forward and as long as the “project” continues they will provide the finance. Once Peter Lim’s money or his motivation dries up so will the club. Is there even a fanbase the size of Rochdale or Bury there? The attendance at Wembley for the National Final was embarrassing. If the fans can’t get themselves up for that they will struggle when they have a few bad results in League 2. But if that happens, Neville and the rest will throw Peter Lim’s money at the team and will survive but in front of crowds of 2000. Spent some time in south Manchester once upon a time and Stockport was a sizeable community but I never thought Salford was and it’s become more gentrified so I don’t know if it’s got the fanbase to grow. Didn't mention Salford because they're not a proper football club - they're a PR project! File in similar bracket to Wigan - they'll go as far as the money takes them when the money dissappears they will plummet because there's not really a club underneath it. Although in fairness to Whelan at Wigan I think it really was investment in his passion and in the town. I imagine that the plan is for Salford to become a kind of Man United B club for United fans to follow. But FC United already take the lions share of that market and are much more convincing as an alternative fun club to support. Sure you can do a bit of low level glory hunting at Salford but there's no fan culture or atmosphere there. It's a crap place to watch football. If the 'class of 92' wanted to do something for local football then they should have invested in one (or a number) of the struggling GM clubs. Gary Neville could have invested in Bury, his father's club. Scholes in Oldham etc. But contrary to the PR it's not really got anything to do with football - it's about the property investments they have (with Lim) in Central Manchester. It's just something that helps grease the wheels when the council starts asking about 'community value' and commmitment to the area.
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 19, 2019 13:45:55 GMT
I think we can seriously question whether Bolton will be able to fulfil their fixtures come August. Players not paid for 5 months and complaining of little communication from the administrators. Away pre-season friendly at Chester cancelled and apparently the few players still in contract turned up for pre-season training only to find the training ground locked up. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49018548 Whilst Bury are also facing major financial challenges, I'm guessing their debts are nowhere near as large as Bolton's True but they're also a much smaller club with much more modest prospects. At least someone taking over Bolton could conceive a situation where the club might rebound and could see commercial potential there - a mammoth task but not completely impossible despite the debt mountain. Bury live permanently on the precipice of collapse - to some extent this is business as usual for them but they still face a long run sustainability crisis which will likely doom them eventually no matter who runs them. They are a historic club with League 1/League 2 level expectations but a Conference North sized fanbase and falling levels of local interest. I actually think they are both in deep deep trouble here and we could see the first in-season (which technically I think this counts as now since we've ticked over into the 2019/2020 calender) football league club to fold since Aldershot. I used to have a gorgeous girlfriend in Bolton and they were in the same division as us, circa 1990. Bolton much smaller than Bristol but good history. I felt some empathy until their fans made the disparaging comments about the mem. Be careful what you wish for. I can’t understand how they are in such a bad way given the payouts for promotion and parachute payments after. Got a feeling this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg and we shall see many more go this way
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 19, 2019 13:52:10 GMT
Interesting what you’ve said irish about the GM clubs. And you’ve done it without even mentioning Salford. I see them doing well as a vanity club for all the ex-Man U players and hangers on that have been attracted to them. Their support looks to be still embarrassingly low and with so much competition in the area unlikely to grow. Yet they will do well because in Gary Neville they have a driving force that the other class of 92 aren’t. He will, with Peter Lim drive the club forward and as long as the “project” continues they will provide the finance. Once Peter Lim’s money or his motivation dries up so will the club. Is there even a fanbase the size of Rochdale or Bury there? The attendance at Wembley for the National Final was embarrassing. If the fans can’t get themselves up for that they will struggle when they have a few bad results in League 2. But if that happens, Neville and the rest will throw Peter Lim’s money at the team and will survive but in front of crowds of 2000. Spent some time in south Manchester once upon a time and Stockport was a sizeable community but I never thought Salford was and it’s become more gentrified so I don’t know if it’s got the fanbase to grow. Salford is so much nicer now. It used to be quite scary when I was there from 82-86. Looks a totally different place. I’d kill for a biryani from what was the plaza, where you’d go as an impoverished student
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 19, 2019 14:45:33 GMT
Interesting what you’ve said irish about the GM clubs. And you’ve done it without even mentioning Salford. I see them doing well as a vanity club for all the ex-Man U players and hangers on that have been attracted to them. Their support looks to be still embarrassingly low and with so much competition in the area unlikely to grow. Yet they will do well because in Gary Neville they have a driving force that the other class of 92 aren’t. He will, with Peter Lim drive the club forward and as long as the “project” continues they will provide the finance. Once Peter Lim’s money or his motivation dries up so will the club. Is there even a fanbase the size of Rochdale or Bury there? The attendance at Wembley for the National Final was embarrassing. If the fans can’t get themselves up for that they will struggle when they have a few bad results in League 2. But if that happens, Neville and the rest will throw Peter Lim’s money at the team and will survive but in front of crowds of 2000. Spent some time in south Manchester once upon a time and Stockport was a sizeable community but I never thought Salford was and it’s become more gentrified so I don’t know if it’s got the fanbase to grow. Salford is so much nicer now. It used to be quite scary when I was there from 82-86. Looks a totally different place. I’d kill for a biryani from what was the plaza, where you’d go as an impoverished student I was in south Manchester mid 70s and as you say it’s very very different now. Probably unrecognisable. I knew the Ardwick and Wythenshaw areas and they were scary then and knew some of the night life. At certain times it was best not to be there! UTG!
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