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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Mar 4, 2019 11:00:05 GMT
We can probably expect a new manager bounce there then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 11:56:32 GMT
Big mistake to me. Keith loves and knows the club better than most. He'll be back at some point. Top bloke.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 12:58:58 GMT
Big mistake to me. Keith loves and knows the club better than most. He'll be back at some point. Top bloke. I've no idea what's going on behind the scenes there, but their results this year have been, excluding their EFL game against financial dopers Man City; P 10 L 8 W 1 D 1 F 9 A 27 Add in their League position and I think that most managers would lose their jobs in that scenario?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 13:16:50 GMT
Big mistake to me. Keith loves and knows the club better than most. He'll be back at some point. Top bloke. I've no idea what's going on behind the scenes there, but their results this year have been, excluding their EFL game against financial dopers Man City; P 10 L 8 W 1 D 1 F 9 A 27 Add in their League position and I think that most managers would lose their jobs in that scenario? For me it’s a similar situation to Rovers, I think sometimes unfortunately it’s best for both parties. Hill like Clarke will have plenty of options and will be a better manager for this and a bit of time out of the game. He along with Hurst are certainly two managers I’d look at in the summer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 13:27:24 GMT
I've no idea what's going on behind the scenes there, but their results this year have been, excluding their EFL game against financial dopers Man City; P 10 L 8 W 1 D 1 F 9 A 27 Add in their League position and I think that most managers would lose their jobs in that scenario? For me it’s a similar situation to Rovers, I think sometimes unfortunately it’s best for both parties. Hill like Clarke will have plenty of options and will be a better manager for this and a bit of time out of the game. He along with Hurst are certainly two managers I’d look at in the summer. Yes. I think we all agree that Keith has a reputation for being one of the good guys in the game, but sometimes things just need to change, it doesn't mean it's his fault. Someone said to me on Saturday that if we had signed Clarke-Harris instead of Payne we would be at least mid table and Darrel would still be here. I have no idea whose idea it was to bring in Payne or if Clarke-Harris was even available in the summer, but it's possible that we've lost our last manager because someone else decided that Payne was the better option. These things happen, it isn't always a reflection of the manager's ability.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Mar 4, 2019 13:46:32 GMT
Big mistake to me. Keith loves and knows the club better than most. He'll be back at some point. Top bloke. I've no idea what's going on behind the scenes there, but their results this year have been, excluding their EFL game against financial dopers Man City; P 10 L 8 W 1 D 1 F 9 A 27 Add in their League position and I think that most managers would lose their jobs in that scenario? Normally yes - but they are punching massively above their weight at this level. It is generally considered to be the smallest club in the Greater Manchester area (even though they get higher attendances than Bury normally). I haven't followed the exact details but they normally have quite a high turnover of players - eventually you'll get unlucky. Most Rochdale fans I know think this is a bad move and that he'll be back within a year.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 13:51:08 GMT
I've no idea what's going on behind the scenes there, but their results this year have been, excluding their EFL game against financial dopers Man City; P 10 L 8 W 1 D 1 F 9 A 27 Add in their League position and I think that most managers would lose their jobs in that scenario? Normally yes - but they are punching massively above their weight at this level. It is generally considered to be the smallest club in the Greater Manchester area (even though they get higher attendances than Bury normally). I haven't followed the exact details but they normally have quite a high turnover of players - eventually you'll get unlucky. Most Rochdale fans I know think this is a bad move and that he'll be back within a year. This is where it starts to get confusing. We are told constantly that all of the players stay in the midlands / north west and that's why we end up in the same division as joke clubs like Accrington even though we get 4x their attendances. Now the story is that it's OK for Rochdale to be rubbish, even though they are in Manchester. How does that work?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Mar 4, 2019 14:25:44 GMT
Normally yes - but they are punching massively above their weight at this level. It is generally considered to be the smallest club in the Greater Manchester area (even though they get higher attendances than Bury normally). I haven't followed the exact details but they normally have quite a high turnover of players - eventually you'll get unlucky. Most Rochdale fans I know think this is a bad move and that he'll be back within a year. This is where it starts to get confusing. We are told constantly that all of the players stay in the midlands / north west and that's why we end up in the same division as joke clubs like Accrington even though we get 4x their attendances. Now the story is that it's OK for Rochdale to be rubbish, even though they are in Manchester. How does that work? In the case of Rochdale their problem is competition within the area. Ie. Because they are the smallest club considered to be offering the lowest wages players will often leave for fairly small wage increases. But Rochdale aren't rubbish - they punch massively above their weight. It's pretty impressive that they've managed to play most of the last decade at this level in the first place. Same goes for Bury - their fans laughably consider their natural level to be the 3rd tier despite registering crowds that would be pretty average in the Conference. Yet they've been able to attract players of the pedigree of James Vaughan and Jermaine Beckford (who admittedly hasn't been that great for them) and despite being one of those clubs constantly under threat of bankruptcy always seem to find another backer willing to come in and spend on the team.
I've spoken to a couple of jobbing lower league pros up here and asked them exactly that question - and their response is always that they'll only move to a club in another part of the country if they have to or if the money and terms are significantly better (rather than just a little bit better). So I do think there's something in it - probably not as much as some managers of both City and Rovers have made out in the past (I mean it's obviously a convenient excuse - I can imagine there are worst places to attract people to move to than Bristol) but footballers are ultimately like anyone else. If you have an offer of a job for similar money/status from a company up the road from where you've lived most of your life and are well networked professionally or a company halfway across the country in a place you have no other connections in then why would you move? I can see how that might have led us to add an extra year to a contract or top up a wage offer over the years -you have to think that agents are going to leverage that at least. I think it's nonsense to blame Rovers poor recruitment on this - ultimately that's about decent planning and strategy - but I do think it can be a factor in negotiations.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 14:28:59 GMT
This is where it starts to get confusing. We are told constantly that all of the players stay in the midlands / north west and that's why we end up in the same division as joke clubs like Accrington even though we get 4x their attendances. Now the story is that it's OK for Rochdale to be rubbish, even though they are in Manchester. How does that work? In the case of Rochdale their problem is competition within the area. Ie. Because they are the smallest club considered to be offering the lowest wages players will often leave for fairly small wage increases. But Rochdale aren't rubbish - they punch massively above their weight. It's pretty impressive that they've managed to play most of the last decade at this level in the first place. Same goes for Bury - their fans laughably consider their natural level to be the 3rd tier despite registering crowds that would be pretty average in the Conference. Yet they've been able to attract players of the pedigree of James Vaughan and Jermaine Beckford (who admittedly hasn't been that great for them) and despite being one of those clubs constantly under threat of bankruptcy always seem to find another backer willing to come in and spend on the team.
I've spoken to a couple of jobbing lower league pros up here and asked them exactly that question - and their response is always that they'll only move to a club in another part of the country if they have to or if the money and terms are significantly better (rather than just a little bit better). So I do think there's something in it - probably not as much as some managers of both City and Rovers have made out in the past (I mean it's obviously a convenient excuse - I can imagine there are worst places to attract people to move to than Bristol) but footballers are ultimately like anyone else. If you have an offer of a job for similar money/status from a company up the road from where you've lived most of your life and are well networked professionally or a company halfway across the country in a place you have no other connections in then why would you move? I can see how that might have led us to add an extra year to a contract or top up a wage offer over the years -you have to think that agents are going to leverage that at least. I think it's nonsense to blame Rovers poor recruitment on this - ultimately that's about decent planning and strategy - but I do think it can be a factor in negotiations.
Mate, I'm not wading through that. Find a way of saying it in a reasonable length post please.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Mar 4, 2019 14:47:30 GMT
In the case of Rochdale their problem is competition within the area. Ie. Because they are the smallest club considered to be offering the lowest wages players will often leave for fairly small wage increases. But Rochdale aren't rubbish - they punch massively above their weight. It's pretty impressive that they've managed to play most of the last decade at this level in the first place. Same goes for Bury - their fans laughably consider their natural level to be the 3rd tier despite registering crowds that would be pretty average in the Conference. Yet they've been able to attract players of the pedigree of James Vaughan and Jermaine Beckford (who admittedly hasn't been that great for them) and despite being one of those clubs constantly under threat of bankruptcy always seem to find another backer willing to come in and spend on the team.
I've spoken to a couple of jobbing lower league pros up here and asked them exactly that question - and their response is always that they'll only move to a club in another part of the country if they have to or if the money and terms are significantly better (rather than just a little bit better). So I do think there's something in it - probably not as much as some managers of both City and Rovers have made out in the past (I mean it's obviously a convenient excuse - I can imagine there are worst places to attract people to move to than Bristol) but footballers are ultimately like anyone else. If you have an offer of a job for similar money/status from a company up the road from where you've lived most of your life and are well networked professionally or a company halfway across the country in a place you have no other connections in then why would you move? I can see how that might have led us to add an extra year to a contract or top up a wage offer over the years -you have to think that agents are going to leverage that at least. I think it's nonsense to blame Rovers poor recruitment on this - ultimately that's about decent planning and strategy - but I do think it can be a factor in negotiations.
Mate, I'm not wading through that. Find a way of saying it in a reasonable length post please. Simply that if you talk to local players up here it's factor in their decision on who they sign with and I can see how it might have effected Rovers ability to negotiate contacts over the years although that is different from transfer strategy. Players aren't any different to anyone else - they won't move unless they have a good incentive to. I think it works informally through networks as well. Chances are if you're a player in the North West you're going to know people and coaches at most other clubs in the North West who are going to have the inside track if they want to sign you over someone they've never met etc.
Clubs like Rochdale and Bury arguably benefit from that in punching above their weight - still doesn't work as an excuse for our poor recruitment though.
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Post by Gregory Stevens on Mar 4, 2019 15:20:48 GMT
In the case of Rochdale their problem is competition within the area. Ie. Because they are the smallest club considered to be offering the lowest wages players will often leave for fairly small wage increases. But Rochdale aren't rubbish - they punch massively above their weight. It's pretty impressive that they've managed to play most of the last decade at this level in the first place. Same goes for Bury - their fans laughably consider their natural level to be the 3rd tier despite registering crowds that would be pretty average in the Conference. Yet they've been able to attract players of the pedigree of James Vaughan and Jermaine Beckford (who admittedly hasn't been that great for them) and despite being one of those clubs constantly under threat of bankruptcy always seem to find another backer willing to come in and spend on the team.
I've spoken to a couple of jobbing lower league pros up here and asked them exactly that question - and their response is always that they'll only move to a club in another part of the country if they have to or if the money and terms are significantly better (rather than just a little bit better). So I do think there's something in it - probably not as much as some managers of both City and Rovers have made out in the past (I mean it's obviously a convenient excuse - I can imagine there are worst places to attract people to move to than Bristol) but footballers are ultimately like anyone else. If you have an offer of a job for similar money/status from a company up the road from where you've lived most of your life and are well networked professionally or a company halfway across the country in a place you have no other connections in then why would you move? I can see how that might have led us to add an extra year to a contract or top up a wage offer over the years -you have to think that agents are going to leverage that at least. I think it's nonsense to blame Rovers poor recruitment on this - ultimately that's about decent planning and strategy - but I do think it can be a factor in negotiations.
Mate, I'm not wading through that. Find a way of saying it in a reasonable length post please. Never mind - I think X factor is on tonight 😆
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Post by Colyton Gas. on Mar 4, 2019 15:32:05 GMT
In the olden days, the bottom 4 clubs in Div 4 had to apply for re-election. Rochdale, Halifax, Barrow were all regulars and I officiated at Rochdale's opening home game in the early 80's. The elderly lady who took our expenses told me they hadn't expected to get re-elected for the umpteenth time and had laid off many staff including their secretary. When they did, in fact, get re-elected, they'd asked this elderly lady to hold the fort and she said,'Anything I do wrong let me know but don't tell anyone as I love it'. In my 12 seasons as a FL official, it was the only matchday programme which was a duplicated couple of pages rather than a full Glossy number.She did her best and Gracie Fields another elderly lady from Rochdale would have been proud. Peter Madden was the manager at the time-now 84- but left to take over a pub and was replaced by Jimmy Greenhof who is a hero in these parts but didn't exactly have a distinguished managerial career.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 16:45:54 GMT
Mate, I'm not wading through that. Find a way of saying it in a reasonable length post please. Never mind - I think X factor is on tonight 😆 That Susan Boyle is a bit of alright, don't you think? I liked the one with, what was his name, Steve Boner, I enjoyed that one as well.
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Post by Gregory Stevens on Mar 4, 2019 17:13:09 GMT
Never mind - I think X factor is on tonight 😆 That Susan Boyle is a bit of alright, don't you think? I liked the one with, what was his name, Steve Boner, I enjoyed that one as well. Boner? Huh huh , huh huh, huh huh. He said boner.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 17:22:13 GMT
That Susan Boyle is a bit of alright, don't you think? I liked the one with, what was his name, Steve Boner, I enjoyed that one as well. Boner? Huh huh , huh huh, huh huh. He said boner. Google it. Not sure if it's real or some kind of set up for entertainment, if it's real I expect his Wife is a happy Lady.
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crater
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,444
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Post by crater on Mar 4, 2019 19:29:25 GMT
Normally yes - but they are punching massively above their weight at this level. It is generally considered to be the smallest club in the Greater Manchester area (even though they get higher attendances than Bury normally). I haven't followed the exact details but they normally have quite a high turnover of players - eventually you'll get unlucky. Most Rochdale fans I know think this is a bad move and that he'll be back within a year. This is where it starts to get confusing. We are told constantly that all of the players stay in the midlands / north west and that's why we end up in the same division as joke clubs like Accrington even though we get 4x their attendances. Now the story is that it's OK for Rochdale to be rubbish, even though they are in Manchester. How does that work? Why do you consider Accrington Stanley to be a joke club?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 19:57:02 GMT
This is where it starts to get confusing. We are told constantly that all of the players stay in the midlands / north west and that's why we end up in the same division as joke clubs like Accrington even though we get 4x their attendances. Now the story is that it's OK for Rochdale to be rubbish, even though they are in Manchester. How does that work? Why do you consider Accrington Stanley to be a joke club? What about them should we aspire to emulate? Points per available £ maybe, which I accept is a biggy, but apart from that they have no fans, no money, a dump of a ground, they allow a drum in to games and the TV reporter I saw covering their game a while back looked ridiculous with his peroxide hair.
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crater
Joined: June 2014
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Post by crater on Mar 4, 2019 20:11:39 GMT
Why do you consider Accrington Stanley to be a joke club? What about them should we aspire to emulate? Points per available £ maybe, which I accept is a biggy, but apart from that they have no fans, no money, a dump of a ground, they allow a drum in to games and the TV reporter I saw covering their game a while back looked ridiculous with his peroxide hair. Don't recall saying anything about emulating Accrington? Personally though I think there's much to admire about them and how they punch way above their weight on the attendances they get. They have a dump of a ground? Been to the Mem lately? I could go on but I won't. Back to the OP I'm slightly sad to see Keith Hill or Hilly as Darrell called him get the sack...I'm sure he'll get a job very soon...he's one of those guys you never hear a bad word said about and is very well respected in the game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 20:51:36 GMT
What about them should we aspire to emulate? Points per available £ maybe, which I accept is a biggy, but apart from that they have no fans, no money, a dump of a ground, they allow a drum in to games and the TV reporter I saw covering their game a while back looked ridiculous with his peroxide hair. Don't recall saying anything about emulating Accrington? Personally though I think there's much to admire about them and how they punch way above their weight on the attendances they get. They have a dump of a ground? Been to the Mem lately? I could go on but I won't. Back to the OP I'm slightly sad to see Keith Hill or Hilly as Darrell called him get the sack...I'm sure he'll get a job very soon...he's one of those guys you never hear a bad word said about and is very well respected in the game. So you don't actually have a point, again. Whatever makes you happy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 22:17:47 GMT
Bambie's got a new friend!
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