keygas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 177
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Post by keygas on Feb 11, 2019 17:46:09 GMT
Thanks again to all who have contributed to the thread I initiated. With such debates many new angles can get thrown up, some very valid, but they can obscure a very simple point. Also, it is possible to become too cynical, and who can blame Rovers fans after what the club has gone through over the years. Can I ask for a reset, and remind you all of the bigger picture? I would suggest that sport in Bristol is now on the verge of permanent domination by Bristol Sport Ltd. This will certainly happen should Rovers slip to Division 2, and City make it into the Premier League. The fundamental point is that a self confessed life long Bristol Rugby and Bristol City fan who became a Director Of Bristol Sport Ltd, should not have been allowed access to confidential meetings involving the UWE Stadium in any capacity at all, even if originally a perfectly legitimate member of the Board Of Governors. There is a clear and obvious conflict of interests, yet no one, but no one, has called it out. Bristol Sport have always shown they have no shame in putting their interests ahead of their city rivals in all respects. Leaving aside the relatively minor point that they are happy to have what was originally Bristol Rovers ladies playing under the name of Bristol City, they relocated the Rugby team to Ashton Gate, clearly to the financial advantage of Bristol Sport, at the expense of Bristol Rovers. On top of this, we have the mid season transfer of Matty Taylor, when there was a a possibility of a third promotion, albeit through the play offs. Against this back ground, why was the Director Of Bristol Sport who was same individual who was central to the relocation of the rugby team, allowed to participate in the confidential UWE Stadium meetings where there was a clear conflict of interests for a period of about 4 years!!! I find it incredible that this is not apparent to everyone who is made aware of this FACT. If you accept that Rovers can never become a club as big as they should be, whilst remaining located in Horfield, then the UWE Stadium was fundamental to them challenging Bristol Sport's obvious strategic objectives of near monopolisation of west country sport. It was clearly in their interests for it not to succeed. People have become too cynical in not listening to or believing Steve Hamer's public comments following the "public" collapse of the Stadium deal in 2017. He explicitly stated that it was not due to money, or the nature of the ownership of the land. He did make cryptic comments regarding problems in dealing with UWE. Has it not occurred to the cynics that he was telling the truth as far as he was able, given legal constraints! It may be too late to save Rovers, or the UWE Stadium. UWE's VC's recent remarks are in stark contrast to his remarks made immediately following Rovers withdrawal announced in August 2017. This does not alter the fact that there needs to be a public explanation for the continued presence of a Director Of Bristol Sport Ltd at the confidential UWE Stadium Project meetings. It is quite shocking that the local media have not picked up on this issue. Is it incompetence? Is it bias? Is it fear of upsetting certain parties? I hope it is incompetence, and that they will become interested, once aware. Perhaps UWE can clarify the situation? Better still, they could release all the minutes of the stadium meetings! Most people would agree private monopolies are not to the public advantage, but we are on the cusp of one in Bristol. Does anyone have the inclination and means to attract media interest? NB I do not wish to upset fellow Rovers supporters, but I remain "frustrated" by those who think redevelopment of the Mem is a viable option. It may be if you are happy to remain watching a third or fourth tier team in front of 10,000 ish crowds But if you want to see then playing at the level they should be (ie Championship or Premiership), given the size of Bristol, they need a location which facilitates much larger crowds via the appropriate transport infrastructure. Rovers need to be replicating what Cardiff and Brighton have done, and that isn't going to happen in Horfield. The Al-Qadis know that. That is the real reason why it is not happening or going to happen. Nick Higgs also knew that, and I would suggest that the Board Of Bristol Sport Ltd also know that. NB2 THe list of Merchant Venturers is interesting I always remember when the details of the UWE stadium were firstly unveiled a certain Colin Sextone who at the time was chairman of Bristol City stating that if Rovers were successful in getting the stadium built that they could go on and be the dominant force of Bristol football. Like yourself I have always felt after every setback of getting this stadium project started that there as been people in certain positions doing their upmost to ensure it never got of the drawing boards. This is only my opinion but I am certain in future years there may be leaks from people who were involved in the UWE meetings to make it clearer why the the stadium which the university at first were so positive of getting developed is now is only a distant dream.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 17:50:52 GMT
Thanks again to all who have contributed to the thread I initiated. With such debates many new angles can get thrown up, some very valid, but they can obscure a very simple point. Also, it is possible to become too cynical, and who can blame Rovers fans after what the club has gone through over the years. Can I ask for a reset, and remind you all of the bigger picture? I would suggest that sport in Bristol is now on the verge of permanent domination by Bristol Sport Ltd. This will certainly happen should Rovers slip to Division 2, and City make it into the Premier League. The fundamental point is that a self confessed life long Bristol Rugby and Bristol City fan who became a Director Of Bristol Sport Ltd, should not have been allowed access to confidential meetings involving the UWE Stadium in any capacity at all, even if originally a perfectly legitimate member of the Board Of Governors. There is a clear and obvious conflict of interests, yet no one, but no one, has called it out. Bristol Sport have always shown they have no shame in putting their interests ahead of their city rivals in all respects. Leaving aside the relatively minor point that they are happy to have what was originally Bristol Rovers ladies playing under the name of Bristol City, they relocated the Rugby team to Ashton Gate, clearly to the financial advantage of Bristol Sport, at the expense of Bristol Rovers. On top of this, we have the mid season transfer of Matty Taylor, when there was a a possibility of a third promotion, albeit through the play offs. Against this back ground, why was the Director Of Bristol Sport who was same individual who was central to the relocation of the rugby team, allowed to participate in the confidential UWE Stadium meetings where there was a clear conflict of interests for a period of about 4 years!!! I find it incredible that this is not apparent to everyone who is made aware of this FACT. If you accept that Rovers can never become a club as big as they should be, whilst remaining located in Horfield, then the UWE Stadium was fundamental to them challenging Bristol Sport's obvious strategic objectives of near monopolisation of west country sport. It was clearly in their interests for it not to succeed. People have become too cynical in not listening to or believing Steve Hamer's public comments following the "public" collapse of the Stadium deal in 2017. He explicitly stated that it was not due to money, or the nature of the ownership of the land. He did make cryptic comments regarding problems in dealing with UWE. Has it not occurred to the cynics that he was telling the truth as far as he was able, given legal constraints! It may be too late to save Rovers, or the UWE Stadium. UWE's VC's recent remarks are in stark contrast to his remarks made immediately following Rovers withdrawal announced in August 2017. This does not alter the fact that there needs to be a public explanation for the continued presence of a Director Of Bristol Sport Ltd at the confidential UWE Stadium Project meetings. It is quite shocking that the local media have not picked up on this issue. Is it incompetence? Is it bias? Is it fear of upsetting certain parties? I hope it is incompetence, and that they will become interested, once aware. Perhaps UWE can clarify the situation? Better still, they could release all the minutes of the stadium meetings! Most people would agree private monopolies are not to the public advantage, but we are on the cusp of one in Bristol. Does anyone have the inclination and means to attract media interest? NB I do not wish to upset fellow Rovers supporters, but I remain "frustrated" by those who think redevelopment of the Mem is a viable option. It may be if you are happy to remain watching a third or fourth tier team in front of 10,000 ish crowds But if you want to see then playing at the level they should be (ie Championship or Premiership), given the size of Bristol, they need a location which facilitates much larger crowds via the appropriate transport infrastructure. Rovers need to be replicating what Cardiff and Brighton have done, and that isn't going to happen in Horfield. The Al-Qadis know that. That is the real reason why it is not happening or going to happen. Nick Higgs also knew that, and I would suggest that the Board Of Bristol Sport Ltd also know that. NB2 THe list of Merchant Venturers is interesting I always remember when the details of the UWE stadium were firstly unveiled a certain Colin Sextone who at the time was chairman of Bristol City stating that if Rovers were successful in getting the stadium built that they could go on and be the dominant force of Bristol football. Like yourself I have always felt after every setback of getting this stadium project started that there as been people in certain positions doing their upmost to ensure it never got of the drawing boards. This is only my opinion but I am certain in future years there may be leaks from people who were involved in the UWE meetings to make it clearer why the the stadium which the university at first were so positive of getting developed is now is only a distant dream. So can I start shopping at Sainsbury’s again.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 17:59:54 GMT
Well, you called out what you perceive as a conflict of interests, I countered by pointing out that whilst your 'Plant' was still in place an agreement was reached between Higgs and UWE, that agreement was acceptable as a basis for our present owners to purchase the club, so I'm struggling to see what your point is? Taylor himself is a side show, but it shows where we are when removing a player who barely makes their bench is enough to scupper us completely. We can challenge what's happening in BS3, all it takes is vision and investment. You can't spend your entire life blaming other people for your own failure, or maybe you can.... I’m with you Bamber. Higgs was comfortable with his business partners so not sure what the objection is now? Our new friend, or maybe not so new, wants somebody to take up his gauntlet but that’s not the way it works here. You either stop dropping hints and tell the whole story or you are wasting your time. Watola always told the board that Bristol Rugby wouldn’t be missed very much in terms of finanace. Rovers couldn’t afford to finance the women’s team so it was salvaged by Filton College. A previous board pissed off Filton College which allowed Bristol City to jump in and attach their Academy there and subsequently take over the women’s team. All I See is us screwing it up and City taking advantage. Not sure what the point is anyway. We are where we are. UWE have moved on, there won't be a stadium on that site. What does the OP want to happen next? I'm not convinced that the Bristol Sport brand is viable without Premier League football, Lansdown won't finance it for ever, eventually they'll get tied up with FFP and have a poor season and with a bit of luck get relegated, so we just have to hope that they don't get lucky and sneak promotion somehow, then the whole house of cards could easily come crashing. The problem is, our plan to take advantage of that possible scenario appears to be some new hand driers, season card readers that don't even record who it is attending and a broken score board. I'll bet Mike is shaking his head in disbelief at how this circus is being run.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 18:02:51 GMT
I always remember when the details of the UWE stadium were firstly unveiled a certain Colin Sextone who at the time was chairman of Bristol City stating that if Rovers were successful in getting the stadium built that they could go on and be the dominant force of Bristol football. Like yourself I have always felt after every setback of getting this stadium project started that there as been people in certain positions doing their upmost to ensure it never got of the drawing boards. This is only my opinion but I am certain in future years there may be leaks from people who were involved in the UWE meetings to make it clearer why the the stadium which the university at first were so positive of getting developed is now is only a distant dream. So can I start shopping at Sainsbury’s again. I never stopped. I'll do what's best for me and my family. 2 mins on Google looking at Southend told you what the most likely outcome of that situation was. But it was nice to get a free T-shirt at an away game, even if the protest slogan was written on the rear so that the TV cameras couldn't see it
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Post by Curly Wurly on Feb 11, 2019 22:41:53 GMT
I always remember when the details of the UWE stadium were firstly unveiled a certain Colin Sextone who at the time was chairman of Bristol City stating that if Rovers were successful in getting the stadium built that they could go on and be the dominant force of Bristol football. Like yourself I have always felt after every setback of getting this stadium project started that there as been people in certain positions doing their upmost to ensure it never got of the drawing boards. This is only my opinion but I am certain in future years there may be leaks from people who were involved in the UWE meetings to make it clearer why the the stadium which the university at first were so positive of getting developed is now is only a distant dream. So can I start shopping at Sainsbury’s again. Never!!!!
(unless it is the most convenient and cost effective option for you or your family )
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:28:56 GMT
So can I start shopping at Sainsbury’s again. Never!!!!
(unless it is the most convenient and cost effective option for you or your family ) And of course, all that BS about how the store would help Gloucester Rd traders was true.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:37:11 GMT
Strange how lidl and aldi got built without a whisper from the objectors and they are much more dangerous to the local traders with their aggressive pricing,still there are plenty of charities yo take up the soon to be vacant shops
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 17:28:46 GMT
Strange how lidl and aldi got built without a whisper from the objectors and they are much more dangerous to the local traders with their aggressive pricing,still there are plenty of charities yo take up the soon to be vacant shops Sainsbury’s were also granted planning but yes, they did have to go the long way around to achieve what they didn’t want.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 17:39:45 GMT
Strange how lidl and aldi got built without a whisper from the objectors and they are much more dangerous to the local traders with their aggressive pricing,still there are plenty of charities yo take up the soon to be vacant shops Sainsbury’s were also granted planning but yes, they did have to go the long way around to achieve what they didn’t want. It's all a game isn't it. I think that had those 2 shops on Muller Rd been in the process of being built, Sainsbury's may have completed the deal to protect their market share. Then Higgs would have had a problem.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 17:41:09 GMT
Strange how lidl and aldi got built without a whisper from the objectors and they are much more dangerous to the local traders with their aggressive pricing,still there are plenty of charities yo take up the soon to be vacant shops No, no, no. This increases business for Gloucester Rd. Didn't you pay any attention at all?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 15:22:32 GMT
sorry must have not understood the reasons and logic.must be an age thing
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Post by Curly Wurly on Feb 14, 2019 16:38:26 GMT
Not sure whether Bamber is being ironic or not.
All redundant of course, but I'd still stand by the hypothesis that free and close parking for 2 hours in Sainsbury's undercroft would have increased footfall for businesses within walking distance on Gloucester Road. A survey at the time of businesses within a mile radius suggested very little overlap in the products and services offered by the current shops.
Lidl and Aldi are just that little bit further away and I doubt there is so much use of their car parking facilities for people to use Gloucester Road shops, cafes etc. But it would be interesting to know the business impact felt by Lidl and Aldi locating in BS7 - I'd suggest very little in most cases.
We move on - or more accurately we don't.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 17:48:18 GMT
Not sure whether Bamber is being ironic or not. All redundant of course, but I'd still stand by the hypothesis that free and close parking for 2 hours in Sainsbury's undercroft would have increased footfall for businesses within walking distance on Gloucester Road. A survey at the time of businesses within a mile radius suggested very little overlap in the products and services offered by the current shops. Lidl and Aldi are just that little bit further away and I doubt there is so much use of their car parking facilities for people to use Gloucester Road shops, cafes etc. But it would be interesting to know the business impact felt by Lidl and Aldi locating in BS7 - I'd suggest very little in most cases. We move on - or more accurately we don't. Draw a line between irony, sarcasm and irritation that we were asked to support such a ludicrous proposition. You may dredge up some evidence to support this claim from other sites where the store creates an eyeline to other retail premises, or areas not well served by supermarkets where the store itself becomes a destination, but, without wishing to sound disrespectful, anyone who believes that store would have benefited local shops is clutching at straws. It's 400 meters from proposed store entrance to Rudthorpe Rd, not many shops before there, none in fact, so a half mile walk total before you reach any shops at all. Then the first shop is Bobby's Newsagent, can't you just visualise the caravan of happy shoppers making a day out of shopping in Sainsbury's and then walking half a mile to take in all that Bobby's has to offer? It's a bit daft, isn't it. I know we were supposed to support the application, but it would have helped if it wasn't propped up by rubbish like this. To change direction slightly, and this bit isn't directed at you, interesting to see that KP is also unimpressed with the efforts of our retail manager. I'm very disappointed, I honestly thought that Tom was going to crack on with things and we would get revolution in that dept at least Footnote. If you go straight up Ralph Rd, turn right at the top, it's 0.47 miles to the junction of Ashley Down Rd and Glouces Rd, so if the argument was right then it holds for the store built where the bus depot was. Problem is, the argument was baloney.
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Post by Curly Wurly on Feb 14, 2019 18:42:57 GMT
Not sure whether Bamber is being ironic or not. All redundant of course, but I'd still stand by the hypothesis that free and close parking for 2 hours in Sainsbury's undercroft would have increased footfall for businesses within walking distance on Gloucester Road. A survey at the time of businesses within a mile radius suggested very little overlap in the products and services offered by the current shops. Lidl and Aldi are just that little bit further away and I doubt there is so much use of their car parking facilities for people to use Gloucester Road shops, cafes etc. But it would be interesting to know the business impact felt by Lidl and Aldi locating in BS7 - I'd suggest very little in most cases. We move on - or more accurately we don't. Draw a line between irony, sarcasm and irritation that we were asked to support such a ludicrous proposition. You may dredge up some evidence to support this claim from other sites where the store creates an eyeline to other retail premises, or areas not well served by supermarkets where the store itself becomes a destination, but, without wishing to sound disrespectful, anyone who believes that store would have benefited local shops is clutching at straws. It's 400 meters from proposed store entrance to Rudthorpe Rd, not many shops before there, none in fact, so a half mile walk total before you reach any shops at all. Then the first shop is Bobby's Newsagent, can't you just visualise the caravan of happy shoppers making a day out of shopping in Sainsbury's and then walking half a mile to take in all that Bobby's has to offer? It's a bit daft, isn't it. I know we were supposed to support the application, but it would have helped if it wasn't propped up by rubbish like this. To change direction slightly, and this bit isn't directed at you, interesting to see that KP is also unimpressed with the efforts of our retail manager. I'm very disappointed, I honestly thought that Tom was going to crack on with things and we would get revolution in that dept at least Footnote. If you go straight up Ralph Rd, turn right at the top, it's 0.47 miles to the junction of Ashley Down Rd and Glouces Rd, so if the argument was right then it holds for the store built where the bus depot was. Problem is, the argument was baloney. I respect your opinion, but disagree with it. Can't really be bothered to argue the point.
Hopefully, what ever progress the club can make, it will enhance the local area.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 18:54:11 GMT
Draw a line between irony, sarcasm and irritation that we were asked to support such a ludicrous proposition. You may dredge up some evidence to support this claim from other sites where the store creates an eyeline to other retail premises, or areas not well served by supermarkets where the store itself becomes a destination, but, without wishing to sound disrespectful, anyone who believes that store would have benefited local shops is clutching at straws. It's 400 meters from proposed store entrance to Rudthorpe Rd, not many shops before there, none in fact, so a half mile walk total before you reach any shops at all. Then the first shop is Bobby's Newsagent, can't you just visualise the caravan of happy shoppers making a day out of shopping in Sainsbury's and then walking half a mile to take in all that Bobby's has to offer? It's a bit daft, isn't it. I know we were supposed to support the application, but it would have helped if it wasn't propped up by rubbish like this. To change direction slightly, and this bit isn't directed at you, interesting to see that KP is also unimpressed with the efforts of our retail manager. I'm very disappointed, I honestly thought that Tom was going to crack on with things and we would get revolution in that dept at least Footnote. If you go straight up Ralph Rd, turn right at the top, it's 0.47 miles to the junction of Ashley Down Rd and Glouces Rd, so if the argument was right then it holds for the store built where the bus depot was. Problem is, the argument was baloney. I respect your opinion, but disagree with it. Can't really be bothered to argue the point.
Hopefully, what ever progress the club can make, it will enhance the local area.
This is the thing, the Rovers / Sainsbury's collaboration put forward a positive assertion, which they failed to support, they just said it and thought that made it so. There isn't exactly a history of Rovers' applications being geared towards making the lives of locals better, remember that nonsense about students and key workers with no parking, so they had to promise not to flood the local streets with their cars? And we wonder why people like Carstairs gain traction with their campaigns....
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Post by Curly Wurly on Feb 14, 2019 18:58:40 GMT
I respect your opinion, but disagree with it. Can't really be bothered to argue the point.
Hopefully, what ever progress the club can make, it will enhance the local area.
This is the thing, the Rovers / Sainsbury's collaboration put forward a positive assertion, which they failed to support, they just said it and thought that made it so. There isn't exactly a history of Rovers' applications being geared towards making the lives of locals better, remember that nonsense about students and key workers with no parking, so they had to promise not to flood the local streets with their cars? And we wonder why people like Carstairs gain traction with their campaigns....
Hopefully Carstairs will be our strongest supporter when the plans for redevelopment of the Mem eventually materialise.
Put forward any change and someone is going to object. Strangely more so in Bristol than any other city I know.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 11:23:39 GMT
This is the thing, the Rovers / Sainsbury's collaboration put forward a positive assertion, which they failed to support, they just said it and thought that made it so. There isn't exactly a history of Rovers' applications being geared towards making the lives of locals better, remember that nonsense about students and key workers with no parking, so they had to promise not to flood the local streets with their cars? And we wonder why people like Carstairs gain traction with their campaigns....
Hopefully Carstairs will be our strongest supporter when the plans for redevelopment of the Mem eventually materialise.
Put forward any change and someone is going to object. Strangely more so in Bristol than any other city I know.
That's been partly a failure in planning, there was nothing about the micro-capsules or Sainsbury's that improved the area in any way, but mostly a failure on the part of the applicant to make any serious effort to engage with locals and get them onside and carry them along with projects. An open evening where Dave Harper gets angry and shouts at people isn't going to help much. Can't be bothered to check, but from memory Carstairs group wanted the stadium to stay as a sports ground, the only other suggestion they made was to knock the whole thing down and return it to being allotments. Expect resistance if there's an application for residential development.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 15, 2019 13:39:44 GMT
Weird isn't it. Bristolians are basically pretty apathetic. Times when they are are up in arms and rioting in the streets: 1. When someone wants to actually build something impressive like a football stadium (north or south of the river). 2. When Tesco wanted to build a store in Stokes Croft. 3. When Blackthorn changed the recipe without telling people first. I think that's about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 14:30:01 GMT
Weird isn't it. Bristolians are basically pretty apathetic. Times when they are are up in arms and rioting in the streets: 1. When someone wants to actually build something impressive like a football stadium (north or south of the river). 2. When Tesco wanted to build a store in Stokes Croft. 3. When Blackthorn changed the recipe without telling people first. I think that's about it. From memory, there was a bit of a fuss in Hartcliffe in 1992 when the Police deliberately crashed into and killed 2 people on a stolen Police motorcycle. Then there was a slight commotion in St Pauls in 1980.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 14:42:52 GMT
Weird isn't it. Bristolians are basically pretty apathetic. Times when they are are up in arms and rioting in the streets: 1. When someone wants to actually build something impressive like a football stadium (north or south of the river). 2. When Tesco wanted to build a store in Stokes Croft. 3. When Blackthorn changed the recipe without telling people first. I think that's about it. From memory, there was a bit of a fuss in Hartcliffe in 1992 when the Police deliberately crashed into and killed 2 people on a stolen Police motorcycle. Then there was a slight commotion in St Pauls in 1980. The lads loved a riot in the 1830's too, so much so that Izzy Brunel became a pig for the day.
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