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Post by swissgas on Jul 22, 2018 19:50:55 GMT
To me a storm in a tea cup is more like the current debates about things like Ellis Harrison's move, the new shirt design or even the uncovered prefabricated stands which Shoveler has just brought up. Something which fans get very heated about but which happens at every football club and has no long term effect on progress or otherwise. Okay my Swiss fellow. I brought it up. No fuss was made. Certainly no storm. I was confused about uncovered family seating. Only that. No outrage or anything. I posed the question. A chap called Dan tweeted the same to TG. TG tweeted back with 'definitely covered'. And the website will get amended thus. Problem solved. In an evening, two people posed my question. It's answered on both Twitter and Gas Guzzler. Good result. I don't understand complicated business. But I know it's more crucial than my question. That's what we've got you here for. Keep it up, Sir. The club website was providing erroneous information which could have deterred fans from buying tickets for the new stands. You queried this and Tom Gorringe was onto it straight away. I’m sure he’ll have the faulty graphics corrected next week and that will be the end of it. As a complicated business tycoon I have my minions dealing with these sorts of things on a daily basis to make sure our teacups remain calm. We do though suffer from an underlying problem with the saucers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 20:00:55 GMT
As a complicated business tycoon I have my minions dealing with these sorts of things on a daily basis to make sure our teacups remain calm. We do though suffer from an underlying problem with the saucers. Good to know, complicated business tycoon. Inability to delegate is probably why I'm still daily sifting small insects and plant debris from the surface of lakes.
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Jul 22, 2018 21:41:20 GMT
If you want small insects sifted properly, you gotta do it yourself.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 22:44:53 GMT
Its the truth as i see it but by all means stick with your negative outlook. You’re making me laugh now and that’s a good thing. Keep up the good work Glad to help with the laughter and lift the cloud of gloom that overtakes you about our owners.
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LPGas
Stuart Taylor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,240
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Post by LPGas on Jul 23, 2018 15:31:49 GMT
In ten years time I will still be stood at the Thatchers End and no doubt remarking on the need for some anti rust paint to be applied
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Jul 23, 2018 16:29:41 GMT
But still smiling, laughing, chortling, guffawing as usual, no? (Or maybe not).
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Post by The Concept on Jul 29, 2018 11:06:45 GMT
Yes, the wording of what was said to be Wael's speech does come across strange. I was going to touch on that before, but there is only so much time I can spend on a football forum, and I was beginning to bore myself typing up that timeline! Here it is for convenience: 4:10 pm
Fallout of the breakdown of a deal In any business, not all deals are meant to be a success. How to manage a situation when a deal doesn't go through? In this session, we will learn from the failed negotiations between Bristol Rovers and UWE, what went wrong and why the plug was eventually pulled, and how did Rovers handle the consequences and fallout of the breakdown of the deal. We'll also get a peek into the alternative action plan the club is working on at the moment.We can only speculate as to how that wording came about. It may have been an off the cuff, even jovial, remark: "I can't talk about the new stadium, as the deal has fallen through; it would be more along the lines of …", not knowing that it would be quoted in the programme of events. And even if Wael, or someone from the club, knowing offered that up as the wording to use, it doesn't mean to say he would have spoken about anything meaty that Rovers fans would be wanting to hear. I agree that if it was an audience of "top football people", then they may get told something before the fans - that is if it is an audience to do with planning, or funding, or something along those lines. The audience for these Coliseum Conferences is business folk, from sport in general, planning or building sports stadia, and sharing experiences and knowledge. So I imagine Wael would have (and perhaps Tom did) shared the experiences: of having a deal falling through; any lessons learned; what they may do differently next time; planning a way forward; building a team around you; team meetings; sharing ideas; forming a long term plan; putting in place an interim short term plan; communicating (or when not to communicate) with stakeholders, customers (fans), council, media - etc. etc. just general stuff, not specifics, like all those business type speeches that go on every day, up and down the country, and let's be honest wouldn't interest the majority of Rovers fans. I doubt very much he would have gone into detail about what specifically went wrong, at least nothing different than has already been said in public. I think the reaction has been a storm in a teacup. I know what you mean about typing fatigue, I often used to do a "Sunday Sermon" on here which if nothing else was a good cure for fans' insomnia ! To me a storm in a tea cup is more like the current debates about things like Ellis Harrison's move, the new shirt design or even the uncovered prefabricated stands which Shoveler has just brought up. Something which fans get very heated about but which happens at every football club and has no long term effect on progress or otherwise. Up till a year ago the UWE Stadium project was considered the most important thing to ever happen in Rovers history so, IMO, this topic about it's demise and the "alternative action plan" is much more than a storm in a teacup. The project had 100% support from the fan base and everyone agreed there was no possible way the club could progress without a new stadium. The cancellation of the project was a huge disappointment to us all but at least we were told we had experts working on a Mem redevelopment. So when, in March, we saw Wael was scheduled to speak at this conference ( billed as an exclusive boutique event) about the collapse of the UWE deal and the alternative action plan then of course hopes were raised. But, as often happens at Rovers, no more was heard about it and when the subject is brought up again four months later the consensus is that there is nothing to discuss or be concerned about". I'm not the type of person to be outraged and I take most things with a pinch of salt and a wry smile. But it does puzzle me that Rovers fans have such a capacity to be so positive and committed about something one minute and yet the next minute, when nothing has happened, they say "well it didn't really matter" and "there's nothing we can do about it anyway". Again, I know I'm in a small minority on this so please no one get offended by my thoughts. Well to me there appears to be two separate things there: A/ The wider, general issue about the UWE Stadium project - that fact the plans and agreement fell apart, what is actually happening, what the plan is next, and when the stadium and training ground officially get announced. - Yes, I can see that is more than a storm in a teacup. B/ Whatever WAQ, or TG, may have, or may not have, said in a business conference, and the thought that they would be telling them stuff they won't tell us. - That is a storm in a teacup (or a glass of fizz, with a canape, on arrival at the Coliseum). Plus you've got a bit wrong: back in March we saw Wael was scheduled to speak at the conference about the plans for the new UWE Stadium, not about the collapse.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,284
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 30, 2018 11:41:12 GMT
Its the truth as i see it but by all means stick with your negative outlook. If I am considered to be negative just for asking questions and being inquisitive then so be it, why would I attend each home game ( health permitting) if I am so negative in your eyes ? As a life Long supporter I am eager to see words turned into action but it seems that many seem to be genuinely happy without even a whimper and I’m not one of them. I’ve never been a pack animal because I don’t believe in the wisdom of the crowd. I question most things and just want to see done what we have been told would be done. We are just going to have to agree to disagree mister. It would be a dull old world if we all held the same opinions so I will carry on questioning while others just accept the non action. Have a good week
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 30, 2018 20:01:43 GMT
Swiss, Give it a rest. Your almost desperate attempts to find a smoking gun does you no favours. We appreciate that you simply do not trust the AlQs, but in this episode, you just have to admit that there is no case to answer. Move on. Vaughan When you say I don't trust the Al-Qadi family nothing could be further from the truth. I have been trying to send a consistent message since July last year but am obviously not getting it across effectively. For me there is no conspiracy about asset stripping or trying in some way to swindle Rovers it is simply that the family made a mistake in purchasing the club. Two of the main points I have pushed are that rich and successful people do make mistakes and running alongside that is the observation that too many fans believe there is a grand scheme to "evolve" Rovers into a successful club just because "the family are rich so they must know what they are doing". The evidence suggests to me that despite the best efforts of Steve Hamer and Tom Gorringe the project is floundering and Martyn Starnes virtually confirmed that this week when he said he was going to have to start work on long term planning. If he is doing that now then how could there have been a long term plan previously ? I trust the family to do their best to get out of the mess which has been created with minimum damage to themselves and to Rovers. Oldie said yesterday that although he likes the changes the new owners have brought in he agrees that losses of 2 million per year are not sustainable. The overstatement of the wealth of the family at the start did nobody any favours and unfortunately I think many fans are still under the impression they have infinite cash to loan if they so wish. But if you look at the AJIB figures you will see that it is not a large bank, it's performance is deteriorating and Hani and his family have enough on their plate without having to subsidise Rovers. I sympathise with them and hope they do manage to find a solution to the problem. My speculation about important changes having possibly been on the table in early March and then suddenly cancelled is not intended to do down the Al Qadi family or imply there is a smoking gun. It's simply putting forward some ideas based on what we know Wael intended to say at the conference, the resolution to allot new shares and the formation of a new company called Dwane Developments. There is nothing sinister in this. If you knew you couldn't sustain losses of 2 million per year so you had to find a way of resolving that problem, and you thought you had found such a way, then possibly you would feel inclined to go to a football conference and tell people about it. Well said. Spot on.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 1, 2018 23:01:37 GMT
Have been out of the Rovers bubble for a while. Trawled through this thread in the hope of catching up. Still none the wiser really.
As far as I can see some semi-influential fairly wealthy people may have atteneded a fairly dull conference about 3 or 4 months ago. Some people have speculated about this. Everything at Rovers remains as was.
On the whole I think my sentiments are in the Swiss/Bamber camp overall here. However, Oldie's interpretation of the relationship we have with our owners is right (although I am nowhere near as comfortable with that as he seems to be). I think it is just a customer-business owner relationship. In which case I don't think I owe them a thing beyond the attitude of 'what have you done for me lately?' These guys aren't local owners nor do they have a long history as fans that might cloud or obsure the relationship nor do they have some kind of grand vision for empowering fans etc. There should be no pretence that the relationship between fans and owners is anything other than transactional. If they deliver the goods then I support them - if they don't then I hope they sell up to someone who can. Most people have grasped this now as some of the slightly embarrassing AQ hero worship of the early days has banged up against reality. The problem is that we all have a different idea on what 'the goods' are and how quickly they should be delivered. In the meantime it seems to me that if you give any kind of a crap about this sort of thing (and no doubt you will be happier not doing so) then the only sensible angle to take is a critical one (which is not at all the same thing as being negative as some seem determined to imply).
The wider discussion here has largely been around whether you can reasonably label what the AQ's have done with Rovers as 'evolutionary progress' or not, which are fair terms for the debate given the comments that they made when they first took over the club. It is inevitable that some will be unhappy given the deliberately woolley nature of these ambitions and the lack of a clearly articulated plan for delivering them especially in the light of the big off field setbacks of the last year. However, looking at the structure of the football world, my concern is more whether 'evolution' will be sufficient for achieving the ambitions of the many fans who were originally excited by the new ownership. Arguably we are so far behind others that what Rovers needed (and still need) to fulfill our potential is actually a revolution.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,284
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 2, 2018 15:27:58 GMT
Have been out of the Rovers bubble for a while. Trawled through this thread in the hope of catching up. Still none the wiser really.
As far as I can see some semi-influential fairly wealthy people may have atteneded a fairly dull conference about 3 or 4 months ago. Some people have speculated about this. Everything at Rovers remains as was.
On the whole I think my sentiments are in the Swiss/Bamber camp overall here. However, Oldie's interpretation of the relationship we have with our owners is right (although I am nowhere near as comfortable with that as he seems to be). I think it is just a customer-business owner relationship. In which case I don't think I owe them a thing beyond the attitude of 'what have you done for me lately?' These guys aren't local owners nor do they have a long history as fans that might cloud or obsure the relationship nor do they have some kind of grand vision for empowering fans etc. There should be no pretence that the relationship between fans and owners is anything other than transactional. If they deliver the goods then I support them - if they don't then I hope they sell up to someone who can. Most people have grasped this now as some of the slightly embarrassing AQ hero worship of the early days has banged up against reality. The problem is that we all have a different idea on what 'the goods' are and how quickly they should be delivered. In the meantime it seems to me that if you give any kind of a crap about this sort of thing (and no doubt you will be happier not doing so) then the only sensible angle to take is a critical one (which is not at all the same thing as being negative as some seem determined to imply).
The wider discussion here has largely been around whether you can reasonably label what the AQ's have done with Rovers as 'evolutionary progress' or not, which are fair terms for the debate given the comments that they made when they first took over the club. It is inevitable that some will be unhappy given the deliberately woolley nature of these ambitions and the lack of a clearly articulated plan for delivering them especially in the light of the big off field setbacks of the last year. However, looking at the structure of the football world, my concern is more whether 'evolution' will be sufficient for achieving the ambitions of the many fans who were originally excited by the new ownership. Arguably we are so far behind others that what Rovers needed (and still need) to fulfill our potential is actually a revolution.
Excellent summation irishrover. Nice one mate
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Post by billyocean on Aug 2, 2018 21:25:31 GMT
I’ve just read all 5 pages of this thread. I think it’s taken me about an hour but I’m struggling a bit and squinting with my contact lenses affected by suntan lotion. What a rollercoaster. Well done to all contributors, especially those I didn’t agree with. This is what forums are all about. swiss, I’m kind of in your camp but if we all were, what a bore it would be so please keep the debate going. And whoever keeps writing “it’s” for possessive “its” please stop it. I’m very OCD about this mistake. It’s => it is , its => belonging to. Its easy to remember. [Yeah, that’s a joke, no flies on you ]
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 2, 2018 23:02:39 GMT
I'm with Billy. Lazy punctuation. Lazy person. I'll probably get called out for being a grammar nazi - but it's (see what I did there) a price worth paying.
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 3, 2018 0:04:02 GMT
I'm with Billy. Lazy punctuation. Lazy person. I'll probably get called out for being a grammar nazi - but it's (see what I did there) a price worth paying. do you mean billy?
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 3, 2018 0:35:22 GMT
I'm with Billy. Lazy punctuation. Lazy person. I'll probably get called out for being a grammar nazi - but it's (see what I did there) a price worth paying. do you mean billy? PS current headlines on the club site; Acrrington Stanley Tickets Now On Sale and yesterday they had 'Development Squad Face Sailsbury on Friday' are you seething?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 3, 2018 10:00:40 GMT
I'm with Billy. Lazy punctuation. Lazy person. I'll probably get called out for being a grammar nazi - but it's (see what I did there) a price worth paying. do you mean billy? Interesting one. His username is billyocean. However addressing someone as their forename implies - would surely require upper case "Billy". Over to the grammar nazi decision panel to decide my fate. Or perhaps billy/Billy would like to comment here. APMG - you're just causing trouble. You're a right little silly Billy.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 3, 2018 10:05:50 GMT
PS current headlines on the club site; Acrrington Stanley Tickets Now On Sale and yesterday they had 'Development Squad Face Sailsbury on Friday' are you seething? I presume they are trying to reach out to the younger generation who don't understand the basic rules of grammar and punctuation. Either that, or the expensive management team and communications specialists we have employed don't understand the basic rules themselves. gr8 innit.
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 3, 2018 10:27:41 GMT
APMG - you're just causing trouble guilty as charged
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Post by billyocean on Aug 3, 2018 14:07:57 GMT
I’ll answer to billy, Billy, billyocean, I’m easy on proper nouns where usernames are concerned. Also no problem writing “bristol city” for example
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Post by Blue Mist on Aug 4, 2018 6:41:52 GMT
Interesting one. His username is billyocean. However addressing someone as their forename implies - would surely require upper case "Billy". Over to the grammar nazi decision panel to decide my fate. Or perhaps billy/Billy would like to comment here. APMG - you're just causing trouble. You're a right little silly Billy. Not sure how AMPG feels about being abbreviated to APMG though.
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