harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
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Post by harrybuckle on Jul 12, 2018 15:33:16 GMT
Wael is in Russia at moment looking for players I guess. Modric could surely be tempted to the Mem !
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swissgas
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Post by swissgas on Jul 12, 2018 15:40:57 GMT
Oldie
I can't seem to reply directly to your post but this saves space anyway.
I haven't been fortunate enough to have had my knickers in a twist for many years now !
What you say is very fair and being so far away it is hard for me to fully appreciate the different atmosphere at the club with the team doing relatively well and the new owners making improvements at the ground to bring standards up to an acceptable level. I know I've been embarrassed many times in the past when bringing visitors to the Mem.
But possibly from such a long way away I can take a more objective view ?
Wael intended going to that conference and gave the organisers details of what he was planning to speak about which they put onto their publicity material. To say that he may not have actually given the speech and so we don't need to worry is, IMO, a very weak argument. The issue is about his judgement in presenting the conference organisers with those statements regarding the breakdown of the UWE deal. The impression I get is that he was trying to project himself to the football industry in a very favourable way but without anything substantive to back it up. If there had been anything substantive happening back in March is it really conceivable that nothing has been heard of it in the four months since ? Or do we have to fall back on the "confidentiality agreement" excuse for the umpteenth time ? Nick Higgs would have been roasted on the independent forum if he had done anything like this.
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Jul 12, 2018 15:55:23 GMT
So is there any evidence that Wael has said anything in this conference that he has not disclosed to the fans already, given his reluctance to disclose commercial details to anybody.
Basically Dwayne Sports thought it was a bad deal.
Now he is being accused of briefing others why it was a bad deal. No evidence.
Swiss Gas - you write with a negative pen, but none of this has come to fruition. It's musings from abroad. I can see you stroking a fluffy white cat as you sharpen your quill.
Please distinguish what is essentially bad from frustration over pace.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jul 12, 2018 16:27:59 GMT
Pseudo cryptic bollox from the like of the 'ciders' helps no one when there are genuine concerns
The "ciders" don't always help themselves and I can understand the frustration with them but there is often a grain of truth in what they post. For example yesterday Severncider brought up the topic of "who is in charge" and now it appears there actually is a board meeting today which will address some serious issues on that subject. I'm with PP on this - why didn't he just post that he has heard that there is some unrest at Rovers, particularly among non-playing staff?
It would be a lot more helpful that the 'A simple question. Who is in charge at BRFC? Who decides who is hired/fired on the non playing staff? Is it Wael, Steve Hamer, Martyn Starnes or Tom Gorringe?' followed by 'some possible alarming news came to light' - which tonally screams 'look at me! - and if you keep looking at me I'll feed you another tidbit!' rather than sharing fans information
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 12, 2018 17:07:24 GMT
It's not about enjoying the ride per se, but certain posters don't help when they 'cry wolf' and nothing happens with the prophecies of doom or whatever it is this week.
Pseudo cryptic bollox from the like of the 'ciders' helps no one when there are genuine concerns
The Al_Qadi's have been far from perfect, learning curves, misunderstanding the football culture here or whatever it may be, but they have been far from the evil owners some seem desperate to portray them as because they aren't NH, local or 'the lesser spotted other consortium'
Ignoring history for a second and taking everything at face value, they have presided over far more at BRFC than many others other 20/30 years
The "ciders" don't always help themselves and I can understand the frustration with them but there is often a grain of truth in what they post. For example yesterday Severncider brought up the topic of "who is in charge" and now it appears there actually is a board meeting today which will address some serious issues on that subject. Severncider was criticised for starting the topic from two separate angles. The first group of fans refused to believe anything could possibly be wrong at Rovers and slated Severncider for making it up. The second group of fans slated him for causing unrest by bringing up a topic which, if true, was an internal matter and the club would be harmed by bringing it into the public domain. I am in what appears to be a very small third group of fans who look at things from a different angle. In any business or organization "whistleblowers" are very unpopular but they do serve a purpose and often things actually get better as a result of their activity. But clever businesses and organizations don't suffer from "whistleblowers" because they are astute enough to foresee potential problems and deal with them before any whistleblowing is necessary. As a result they do not suffer the reputational damage and disruption which whistleblowing brings. In this case it doesn't take much to piece together what is likely to be happening. When Martyn Starnes appointment was announced in March I suggested there should be a clear statement of what Martyn's role would be so that everyone was on the same page and we all understood what he was going to try to achieve. Doing that would help Martyn, it would help the people he was going to be working with and it would help us as fans form a positive view of the direction in which the club is going. Nothing was done, Martyn's opening statement on Monday was poor and now we apparently have a crisis involving non-playing staff. Is there anyone else out there who feels that so much of what goes wrong at Rovers is highly predictable and with just a bit of forethought and planning we could be a happier and more successful club ? New CEO starts in any business, shakes a few things up. Not uncommon is it. Not necessarily a story is it, or one that requires any hyperbole.
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swissgas
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Post by swissgas on Jul 12, 2018 18:02:44 GMT
So is there any evidence that Wael has said anything in this conference that he has not disclosed to the fans already, given his reluctance to disclose commercial details to anybody. Basically Dwayne Sports thought it was a bad deal. Now he is being accused of briefing others why it was a bad deal. No evidence. Swiss Gas - you write with a negative pen, but none of this has come to fruition. It's musings from abroad. I can see you stroking a fluffy white cat as you sharpen your quill. Please distinguish what is essentially bad from frustration over pace. On this particular topic, for me, the essentially bad thing is double standards because we wouldn't have let Nick Higgs get away with it. Wael told or intended to tell tell the audience at the conference : 1) What went wrong and why the plug was eventually pulled on the UWE Stadium deal. 2) How Rovers handled the consequences and fall out from the breakdown of the deal. 3) And to give them a peek into the alternative action plan the club was working on. Do you think he told or intended to tell a group of high level people from the football industry : 1) The deal was not in the interests of Rovers so we gave UWE a deadline to agree to one which was in Rovers interests and they didn't meet it so we pulled out. 2) We told our supporters it didn't matter that we had previously said a new stadium was essential, and redeveloping our existing stadium was not viable, because we had now changed our minds and were going to redevelop the existing stadium. 3) We have the best experts on our side who have built not one or two or three or four stadiums but twelve. They will be looking and exploring to see how we could regenerate the Mem. These last three points are essentially what we as fans have been told but would he really have stood up in front of an audience of experienced and knowledgeable football people and said just that ? To me he must have told or intended to tell them much more which means the additional information could not have been subject to a confidentiality agreement. Either that or someone warned him not to go ahead and to withdraw his transcript. Whichever happened it shows another serious lack of judgement which, if we sweep it under the carpet, is going to happen again and again. And now my cat has just bitten me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 18:47:35 GMT
So is there any evidence that Wael has said anything in this conference that he has not disclosed to the fans already, given his reluctance to disclose commercial details to anybody. Basically Dwayne Sports thought it was a bad deal. Now he is being accused of briefing others why it was a bad deal. No evidence. Swiss Gas - you write with a negative pen, but none of this has come to fruition. It's musings from abroad. I can see you stroking a fluffy white cat as you sharpen your quill. Please distinguish what is essentially bad from frustration over pace. On this particular topic, for me, the essentially bad thing is double standards because we wouldn't have let Nick Higgs get away with it. Wael told or intended to tell tell the audience at the conference : 1) What went wrong and why the plug was eventually pulled on the UWE Stadium deal. 2) How Rovers handled the consequences and fall out from the breakdown of the deal. 3) And to give them a peek into the alternative action plan the club was working on. Do you think he told or intended to tell a group of high level people from the football industry : 1) The deal was not in the interests of Rovers so we gave UWE a deadline to agree to one which was in Rovers interests and they didn't meet it so we pulled out. 2) We told our supporters it didn't matter that we had previously said a new stadium was essential, and redeveloping our existing stadium was not viable, because we had now changed our minds and were going to redevelop the existing stadium. 3) We have the best experts on our side who have built not one or two or three or four stadiums but twelve. They will be looking and exploring to see how we could regenerate the Mem. These last three points are essentially what we as fans have been told but would he really have stood up in front of an audience of experienced and knowledgeable football people and said just that ? To me he must have told or intended to tell them much more which means the additional information could not have been subject to a confidentiality agreement. Either that or someone warned him not to go ahead and to withdraw his transcript. Whichever happened it shows another serious lack of judgement which, if we sweep it under the carpet, is going to happen again and again. And now my cat has just bitten me. Swiss You are dancing on a dime. Worse you are creating the straw man argument I referred to. Why not respond directly as I did to you?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 12, 2018 19:35:45 GMT
Maybe hes deeply hurt by all the negative comments on football forums and facebook? Some of the stuff like the "fake sheik" comment from some moron is also blatantly racist. Maybe he thought fans would appreciate his efforts to improve the club but now realises how spiteful they can be in the modern "must have it now" era we live in. Plenty of city fans were slagging steve lansdown off last season for not spending massive in january,even calling for him to sell up. Mad world Actually I discussed this with him when we were still contacting one another on Twitter and before I blocked him over not even getting back to me about a bucket collection for the Young’s lad the died, Bailey Cooper’s family. It upset me greatly as, after having to deal with 4 deaths in 3 years, I know just how expensive funerals are but that’s another story his reply to my message of don’t let the fans upset you, was that he knew how football fans acted and reacted and that it didn’t bother him. I have the message if you really want to see it ? vaughan No evidence that Al Qadi briefed others why it was a bad deal? So what are you saying, that Wael didn't actually speak at the Conference?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 12, 2018 19:41:07 GMT
Why doesn't someone get hold of the transcript? I doubt whether he revealed anything of note, as he abides by a strict code of business ethics in terms of confidentiality. This is just another storm in a Forum tea-cup driven by the wind of frustration of people who need to be familiar with ins and outs of a cat's bottom. From the man who a few months earlier was so agitated that you wanted to sort out outside investment , come on mate. As it happens I don’t give a fig is some think me anti family as I know it’s not true, I, just pro Rovers and would hope that the many fans who have been asking, on both forums and at matches, why it went wrong ? It would be nice to let us have at least some inkling rather than nothing at all. Just saying like. This is a topic that did transcend the forums and many talked about why it broke down
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 12, 2018 19:45:56 GMT
It's not about enjoying the ride per se, but certain posters don't help when they 'cry wolf' and nothing happens with the prophecies of doom or whatever it is this week.
Pseudo cryptic bollox from the like of the 'ciders' helps no one when there are genuine concerns
The Al_Qadi's have been far from perfect, learning curves, misunderstanding the football culture here or whatever it may be, but they have been far from the evil owners some seem desperate to portray them as because they aren't NH, local or 'the lesser spotted other consortium'
Ignoring history for a second and taking everything at face value, they have presided over far more at BRFC than many others other 20/30 years
The "ciders" don't always help themselves and I can understand the frustration with them but there is often a grain of truth in what they post. For example yesterday Severncider brought up the topic of "who is in charge" and now it appears there actually is a board meeting today which will address some serious issues on that subject. Severncider was criticised for starting the topic from two separate angles. The first group of fans refused to believe anything could possibly be wrong at Rovers and slated Severncider for making it up. The second group of fans slated him for causing unrest by bringing up a topic which, if true, was an internal matter and the club would be harmed by bringing it into the public domain. I am in what appears to be a very small third group of fans who look at things from a different angle. In any business or organization "whistleblowers" are very unpopular but they do serve a purpose and often things actually get better as a result of their activity. But clever businesses and organizations don't suffer from "whistleblowers" because they are astute enough to foresee potential problems and deal with them before any whistleblowing is necessary. As a result they do not suffer the reputational damage and disruption which whistleblowing brings. In this case it doesn't take much to piece together what is likely to be happening. When Martyn Starnes appointment was announced in March I suggested there should be a clear statement of what Martyn's role would be so that everyone was on the same page and we all understood what he was going to try to achieve. Doing that would help Martyn, it would help the people he was going to be working with and it would help us as fans form a positive view of the direction in which the club is going. Nothing was done, Martyn's opening statement on Monday was poor and now we apparently have a crisis involving non-playing staff. Is there anyone else out there who feels that so much of what goes wrong at Rovers is highly predictable and with just a bit of forethought and planning we could be a happier and more successful club ? Yes sir, there is and many others who don’t read or even know of the forums
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swissgas
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Post by swissgas on Jul 12, 2018 19:56:45 GMT
On this particular topic, for me, the essentially bad thing is double standards because we wouldn't have let Nick Higgs get away with it. Wael told or intended to tell tell the audience at the conference : 1) What went wrong and why the plug was eventually pulled on the UWE Stadium deal. 2) How Rovers handled the consequences and fall out from the breakdown of the deal. 3) And to give them a peek into the alternative action plan the club was working on. Do you think he told or intended to tell a group of high level people from the football industry : 1) The deal was not in the interests of Rovers so we gave UWE a deadline to agree to one which was in Rovers interests and they didn't meet it so we pulled out. 2) We told our supporters it didn't matter that we had previously said a new stadium was essential, and redeveloping our existing stadium was not viable, because we had now changed our minds and were going to redevelop the existing stadium. 3) We have the best experts on our side who have built not one or two or three or four stadiums but twelve. They will be looking and exploring to see how we could regenerate the Mem. These last three points are essentially what we as fans have been told but would he really have stood up in front of an audience of experienced and knowledgeable football people and said just that ? To me he must have told or intended to tell them much more which means the additional information could not have been subject to a confidentiality agreement. Either that or someone warned him not to go ahead and to withdraw his transcript. Whichever happened it shows another serious lack of judgement which, if we sweep it under the carpet, is going to happen again and again. And now my cat has just bitten me. Swiss You are dancing on a dime. Worse you are creating the straw man argument I referred to. Why not respond directly as I did to you? OK, let's forget about Nick Higgs and concentrate on Wael and KP's original question, why won't he speak to us ? As a private investor in the business perhaps he doesn't have anything to say. But as club President, a Gashead and a self proclaimed football fanatic why won't he speak to us now when two years ago he was full of things to say ? Do you have any ideas ?
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vaughan
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Post by vaughan on Jul 12, 2018 19:57:58 GMT
Take 2.
There is no way that Wael betrayed any commercial sensitivity about the UWE deal, even if he did speak on this subject.
I have no evidence: nor have you to the contrary.
My theory is based on the high standards of ethical behaviour he has displayed in his tenure at BRFC.
Nick Higgs however let us believe that the UWE stadium was going to go ahead after winning the legal case ref permission to build on Mem without telling us that Sainsbury's had already decided to pull out. Remember all those supporters celebrating outside the Court Room?
If you are so convinced, find the conference organisers and/or attendees and try to establish what he did say. I am sure it is in your capability to achieve this and it would prove your point about his 2-mode level of communication.
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
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Post by vaughan on Jul 12, 2018 20:34:52 GMT
It's pretty obvious...
UWE did not provide a Return on Investment in the eyes of Dwayne Sports, which is why I asked the question about outside investment.
Maybe the third-party review threw up issues around financial feasibility.
Dwayne Sports are bankers from Middle East. They are not going to portray commercially sensitive information to the world on any deal - successful or failed.
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Post by DudeLebowski on Jul 12, 2018 21:03:58 GMT
Maybe hes deeply hurt by all the negative comments on football forums and facebook? Some of the stuff like the "fake sheik" comment from some moron is also blatantly racist. Maybe he thought fans would appreciate his efforts to improve the club but now realises how spiteful they can be in the modern "must have it now" era we live in. Plenty of city fans were slagging steve lansdown off last season for not spending massive in january,even calling for him to sell up. Mad world Actually I discussed this with him when we were still contacting one another on Facebook and before I blocked him over not even getting back to me about a bucket collection for the Young’s lad the died, Bradley Cooper’s family. It upset me greatly as, after having to deal with 4 deaths in 3 years, I know just how expensive funerals are but that’s another story his reply to my message of don’t let the fans upset you, was that he knew how football fans acted and reacted and that it didn’t bother him. I have the message if you really want to see it ? vaughan No evidence that Al Qadi briefed others why it was a bad deal? So what are you saying, that Wael didn't actually speak at the Conference? *Bailey Cooper
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 21:45:28 GMT
Swiss You are dancing on a dime. Worse you are creating the straw man argument I referred to. Why not respond directly as I did to you? OK, let's forget about Nick Higgs and concentrate on Wael and KP's original question, why won't he speak to us ? As a private investor in the business perhaps he doesn't have anything to say. But as club President, a Gashead and a self proclaimed football fanatic why won't he speak to us now when two years ago he was full of things to say ? Do you have any ideas ? I don't take this personally. The investors are doing what they think is right to protect their investment, as part of that vision they appear to believe that investing in fan experience is worthy and investing in coaching and youth development equally so. That's all good to me and in stark contrast to what has gone on. I really don't get this needy response from a few who feel the need to be told every detail. For us, the fans, with no vested financial interest, that should be enough. If you want to know the absolute detail, put your hand in your pocket and buy in. Otherwise 🙊
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swissgas
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Post by swissgas on Jul 13, 2018 0:59:46 GMT
OK, let's forget about Nick Higgs and concentrate on Wael and KP's original question, why won't he speak to us ? As a private investor in the business perhaps he doesn't have anything to say. But as club President, a Gashead and a self proclaimed football fanatic why won't he speak to us now when two years ago he was full of things to say ? Do you have any ideas ? I don't take this personally. The investors are doing what they think is right to protect their investment, as part of that vision they appear to believe that investing in fan experience is worthy and investing in coaching and youth development equally so. That's all good to me and in stark contrast to what has gone on. I really don't get this needy response from a few who feel the need to be told every detail. For us, the fans, with no vested financial interest, that should be enough. If you want to know the absolute detail, put your hand in your pocket and buy in. Otherwise 🙊 But that is the put up or shut up argument used by Nick Higgs' supporters when questions were asked which they found impossible to answer. Darrell Clarke has already said he needs fans to buy season tickets and support the club's commercial ventures because the owners will not be supplying extra funds to boost his playing budget. If, in a few weeks time, Martyn Starnes told us the training ground had been mothballed and the improvements to the Mem would continue for the foreseeable future in a low key piecemeal fashion because there were no funds available for new Grandstands or other large scale developments then you would find me supporting him as best I could. What I find difficult to stomach is the attempt to pull the wool over our eyes which seems to be carrying over from the Higgs era. It's not detail I want to see but honesty and sincerity about the stadium, the training ground and the future direction the club is going to take. My vested financial interest amounts to 50 shares but, like you, my emotional interest holds far greater value for me and that is why I should like to know more. After so long contributing to the forums and finding ourselves on different sides of the debate this time it's good that we can keep things civil and reasoned.
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 13, 2018 7:08:13 GMT
I don't take this personally. The investors are doing what they think is right to protect their investment, as part of that vision they appear to believe that investing in fan experience is worthy and investing in coaching and youth development equally so. That's all good to me and in stark contrast to what has gone on. I really don't get this needy response from a few who feel the need to be told every detail. For us, the fans, with no vested financial interest, that should be enough. If you want to know the absolute detail, put your hand in your pocket and buy in. Otherwise 🙊 But that is the put up or shut up argument used by Nick Higgs' supporters when questions were asked which they found impossible to answer. Darrell Clarke has already said he needs fans to buy season tickets and support the club's commercial ventures because the owners will not be supplying extra funds to boost his playing budget. If, in a few weeks time, Martyn Starnes told us the training ground had been mothballed and the improvements to the Mem would continue for the foreseeable future in a low key piecemeal fashion because there were no funds available for new Grandstands or other large scale developments then you would find me supporting him as best I could. What I find difficult to stomach is the attempt to pull the wool over our eyes which seems to be carrying over from the Higgs era. It's not detail I want to see but honesty and sincerity about the stadium, the training ground and the future direction the club is going to take. My vested financial interest amounts to 50 shares but, like you, my emotional interest holds far greater value for me and that is why I should like to know more. After so long contributing to the forums and finding ourselves on different sides of the debate this time it's good that we can keep things civil and reasoned. I guess/hope we will see what the 'real deal' and/or the outline plans are now the CEO is on board. Presumably he is been brought in because he is competent and been part of the Plymouth executive whilst there regeneration of Home Park has been developed
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 13, 2018 7:15:15 GMT
So maybe that's why we have radio silence from Wael. He just can't be trusted not to say something that maybe interpreted as disingenuous. It's not acceptable customer management in my book. It's also incredibly poor expectation management. You must have trouble finding a bank to deal with Epping, or a supermarket to shop at I am making specific reference to the Wael Al-Qadi statement about the "Stadium experts involved in a total re-build of the Mem". In answer to your question: Not at all. The people at Tesco are polite and don't lie to my face. Likewise at Nat West. If they did - I would shop or bank elsewhere. (Yes - at a corporate level I am sure there are plenty of examples of these businesses and their competitors being disingenuous). However it's a moot point anyway. A football Club is not like any other type of business. This is not a typical business/customer relationship. You don't just go somewhere to another Club when the one you support behaves "badly". I think we will have to agree to differ. I think being "mis-led" by the Club President is very poor. You think it is acceptable customer management.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 8:03:18 GMT
You must have trouble finding a bank to deal with Epping, or a supermarket to shop at I am making specific reference to the Wael Al-Qadi statement about the "Stadium experts involved in a total re-build of the Mem". In answer to your question: Not at all. The people at Tesco are polite and don't lie to my face. Likewise at Nat West. If they did - I would shop or bank elsewhere. (Yes - at a corporate level I am sure there are plenty of examples of these businesses and their competitors being disingenuous). However it's a moot point anyway. A football Club is not like any other type of business. This is not a typical business/customer relationship. You don't just go somewhere to another Club when the one you support behaves "badly". I think we will have to agree to differ. I think being "mis-led" by the Club President is very poor. You think it is acceptable customer management. Let's agree to disagree.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 8:04:10 GMT
I don't take this personally. The investors are doing what they think is right to protect their investment, as part of that vision they appear to believe that investing in fan experience is worthy and investing in coaching and youth development equally so. That's all good to me and in stark contrast to what has gone on. I really don't get this needy response from a few who feel the need to be told every detail. For us, the fans, with no vested financial interest, that should be enough. If you want to know the absolute detail, put your hand in your pocket and buy in. Otherwise 🙊 But that is the put up or shut up argument used by Nick Higgs' supporters when questions were asked which they found impossible to answer. Darrell Clarke has already said he needs fans to buy season tickets and support the club's commercial ventures because the owners will not be supplying extra funds to boost his playing budget. If, in a few weeks time, Martyn Starnes told us the training ground had been mothballed and the improvements to the Mem would continue for the foreseeable future in a low key piecemeal fashion because there were no funds available for new Grandstands or other large scale developments then you would find me supporting him as best I could. What I find difficult to stomach is the attempt to pull the wool over our eyes which seems to be carrying over from the Higgs era. It's not detail I want to see but honesty and sincerity about the stadium, the training ground and the future direction the club is going to take. My vested financial interest amounts to 50 shares but, like you, my emotional interest holds far greater value for me and that is why I should like to know more. After so long contributing to the forums and finding ourselves on different sides of the debate this time it's good that we can keep things civil and reasoned. Of course, I respect your viewpoint.
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