Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 16:29:17 GMT
I object to the word acquiescent. I have mis giving, but unlike the previous regime we have this A) Playing side stability B) Proper investment in coaching staff and development squad C) Genuine improvements to facilities for the benefit of fans D) Investment in an experienced company management structure E) Internalisation of company debt F) Complete lack of bravado over a new stadium It seems to me that all the doubt is because of the UWE. Hands up those who understood the proposed financing as articulated by the previous regime?? My only disappointment is the training ground, which is needed to back up the development of the coaching team and the development of players. If there is anything else Swiss, why don't you properly articulate it. I am prepared to be completely wrong, if proven. Acquiescence is giving tacit approval to something and not objecting. If Nick Higgs had gone to a football conference in London and given a speech about why the UWE deal fell through, how Rovers handled it and what his alternative plans were, but then refused to share all this detail with fans, how would we have reacted ? Would we have remained silent and given our tacit approval ? I think a huge majority of Rovers fans would have remained silent and given their tacit approval because, as always, they would be thinking "Nick knows best, he is a successful businessman who will not let us down and he will tell us when he is ready". But you and I and a few others would certainly not have remained silent. We would have given Nick a hard time and tried to persuade other fans this was not a sensible approach to take and not in the best interests of the football club. I do think Wael has shown false bravado since the day the UWE cancellation was announced as illustrated by his talk of the "dirty dozen stadium experts on our side" and then going to this conference and apparently telling the audience how he solved the problem of the UWE deal breaking down. To me this is exactly the same attitude that Nick Higgs took. He relied on the fact that the majority thought he knew what he was doing and used endless bluster rather than taking the sensible course of confronting the truth and being straight with Rovers fans. The other five point you make are fair to a degree but I'm still not sure whether these changes are exactly what they seem. Darrell Clarke is a realist and a good man for Rovers but I wonder if even he thinks his squad is stable. We did have a development squad in Nick Higgs' time under the management Darren Patterson and players like Ben Swallow did make the step up to the first team so how big an improvement we have now is unclear. The upgrading of the fans facilities is very good and well overdue. What is this management structure ? Judging by Monday's announcement it looks as though even Martyn Starnes is unsure of what his role is. And surely no one can be complacent about the huge mountain of debt no matter who it is owed to. Looking at what is financially visible about the AJIB and associated companies I cannot see the apparent 2 million per year cost of owning Rovers being sustainable for the family. So it really boils down to whether it is helpful to question and put forward constructive criticism or whether it is best to just sit back and enjoy the ride. My view is that we should treat Wael in exactly the same way as we treated Nick and for us that meant taking him to task when we saw things we felt weren't right and challenging him to do better. Do you think that Wael is in a position to make any significant decisions regarding Rovers? Your point above about the level of debt and ongoing losses is a big worry. Hard to see that being turned around by changing access to the club shop on match days and making the bars a bit nicer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 16:35:58 GMT
Because it's a private company, self financing, a presentation on a specific topic based upon a real life situation. If he shares that presentation, how will it change your life? What relevance is it to you? If our relationship is just as paying customers then Wael can come right out and say so. Of course he won't, it's an emotional relationship, not just a fiscal transaction, you know that, and so does Wael, it was demonstrated by his 'Delia' moment on the pitch when he opened up his jacket to show his Rovers shirt and shouted that he was a Gashead. With all due respect Bamber, if you really believe that private investors see as anything else but customers, then you need to have a word with yourself. "Delilah" moments are just window dressing.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jul 11, 2018 16:47:40 GMT
If our relationship is just as paying customers then Wael can come right out and say so. Of course he won't, it's an emotional relationship, not just a fiscal transaction, you know that, and so does Wael, it was demonstrated by his 'Delia' moment on the pitch when he opened up his jacket to show his Rovers shirt and shouted that he was a Gashead. With all due respect Bamber, if you really believe that private investors see as anything else but customers, then you need to have a word with yourself. "Delilah" moments are just window dressing. why, why, why Delia?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 16:57:33 GMT
If our relationship is just as paying customers then Wael can come right out and say so. Of course he won't, it's an emotional relationship, not just a fiscal transaction, you know that, and so does Wael, it was demonstrated by his 'Delia' moment on the pitch when he opened up his jacket to show his Rovers shirt and shouted that he was a Gashead. With all due respect Bamber, if you really believe that private investors see as anything else but customers, then you need to have a word with yourself. "Delilah" moments are just window dressing. Are you accusing Wael of being disingenuous?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 17:16:49 GMT
With all due respect Bamber, if you really believe that private investors see as anything else but customers, then you need to have a word with yourself. "Delilah" moments are just window dressing. Are you accusing Wael of being disingenuous? <iframe width="23.98" height="5.18000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT0_86626211" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px; width: 23.98px; height: 5.18px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.98" height="5.18000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT0_67813718" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1139px; top: -5px; width: 23.98px; height: 5.18px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.98" height="5.18000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT0_62158783" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 197px; width: 23.98px; height: 5.18px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.98" height="5.18000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT0_94115591" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1139px; top: 197px; width: 23.98px; height: 5.18px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> Nope, customer management. You, naïve (sorry)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 17:41:53 GMT
Swiss I am approving of nothing, and choose not to object, that's not acquiescence Its an acceptance of where we are and a relief coming from where we were. With respect Swiss, that's a "Straw Man" argument I really believe that he would not have been able to, given how it would have made him appear. Shockingly poor contract negotiation with Sainsbury's, compounded by the fact that he appeared not to understand the terms of contract, an inability to explain how the stadium was to be fully funded even if that deal had materialised, (or being forced to admit that future revenues had been "mortgaged". That the PR had either inadvertently or worse, mislead the public. (These are my opinions and may not necessarily be correct). Given that this was the circumstances handed to the new owners, its not hard to imagine why the whole thing collapsed. Perhaps. I was not aware that he actually made that statement to the audience at the conference. I was not there. I presume you were not and most likely no one on this forum were either (from a fans perspective) A lot of whimsical thinking there Swiss. None of us really know what the manager thinks, nor should we. He works for a private company and is under contract to them. On the development squad, didn't they win their league last season? On the CEO, regardless of your perception of the statement (I did not read it) like DC he is an employee of the company. I cannot imagine any CEO worth his salt would not have negotiated his exact terms of reference before he agreed the contract. You know that. Sure. But here is a very different history to the ascent of NH and the ascent of the current board. Look into 2006 and all that, the blatant disregard for minority shareholders (Supporters Club Share Scheme Money) and arrogance and near contempt that was bestowed upon anyone who dared question. This current board do not pay lip service to communications, so we can only judge them on their actions. By comparison the last two years have been peaceful and progressive. I say again, people have got their knickers in a twist because they chose to believe that the UWE project was viable. I have to say that's their problem. Just to reiterate, these are my opinions and are not necessarily 100% accurate. <iframe width="23.6600000000001" height="2.46000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT0_53957076" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 43px; width: 23.66px; height: 2.46px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.6600000000001" height="2.46000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT0_6499197" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1123px; top: 43px; width: 23.66px; height: 2.46px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.6600000000001" height="2.46000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT0_73104806" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 114px; width: 23.66px; height: 2.46px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.6600000000001" height="2.46000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT0_2192119" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1123px; top: 114px; width: 23.66px; height: 2.46px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe>
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 17:48:20 GMT
I don't understand.
So you are saying that he has said things that have been disingenuous but you regard them as acceptable as they fall within your understanding of acceptable customer management?
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,450
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 11, 2018 21:50:03 GMT
This age we live in everyone wants to know what's going on all the time. Oh for the days of a dedicated ceefax page and clubcall ....and the back page of the BEP and Robin Perry when it was a proper paper! UTG!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 22:49:10 GMT
Maybe hes deeply hurt by all the negative comments on football forums and facebook? Some of the stuff like the "fake sheik" comment from some moron is also blatantly racist. Maybe he thought fans would appreciate his efforts to improve the club but now realises how spiteful they can be in the modern "must have it now" era we live in. Plenty of city fans were slagging steve lansdown off last season for not spending massive in january,even calling for him to sell up. Mad world Or perhaps someone has explained to him that if you act like a joke people will laugh at you. If backing the manager and improving the ground is a joke then its a very good one and long may the fun continue.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 6:43:55 GMT
I don't understand. So you are saying that he has said things that have been disingenuous but you regard them as acceptable as they fall within your understanding of acceptable customer management? Totally. It happens all the time. Whether is disingenuous is a matter of personal interpretation.
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Post by DudeLebowski on Jul 12, 2018 7:13:52 GMT
In the land of the blind and all that. Nice diversion though World Cup IS on though. Literally spending your time in pre season actively searching for reasons to slag the owner off. To which you’ve stumbled across a dated article. Could always try Wimbledon?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,197
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 12, 2018 8:10:40 GMT
So maybe that's why we have radio silence from Wael. He just can't be trusted not to say something that maybe interpreted as disingenuous. It's not acceptable customer management in my book. It's also incredibly poor expectation management.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 8:39:26 GMT
So maybe that's why we have radio silence from Wael. He just can't be trusted not to say something that maybe interpreted as disingenuous. It's not acceptable customer management in my book. It's also incredibly poor expectation management. You must have trouble finding a bank to deal with Epping, or a supermarket to shop at
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 9:55:16 GMT
I don't understand. So you are saying that he has said things that have been disingenuous but you regard them as acceptable as they fall within your understanding of acceptable customer management? Totally. It happens all the time. Whether is disingenuous is a matter of personal interpretation. Cool, you should put that to him. I wonder if he knows what it means
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 10:23:25 GMT
Totally. It happens all the time. Whether is disingenuous is a matter of personal interpretation. Cool, you should put that to him. I wonder if he knows what it means You mean command of English?
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Post by DudeLebowski on Jul 12, 2018 13:38:35 GMT
Anyone up for putting forward any evidence that WAQ actually spoke at this event? Including what he did or didn’t say? I’ll wait
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 13:56:36 GMT
Anyone up for putting forward any evidence that WAQ actually spoke at this event? Including what he did or didn’t say? I’ll wait Precisely
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Jul 12, 2018 14:19:15 GMT
Why doesn't someone get hold of the transcript? I doubt whether he revealed anything of note, as he abides by a strict code of business ethics in terms of confidentiality.
This is just another storm in a Forum tea-cup driven by the wind of frustration of people who need to be familiar with ins and outs of a cat's bottom.
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Post by swissgas on Jul 12, 2018 15:04:14 GMT
It's a year this week since I made the "suspicious minds" post expressing my feeling that many fans were suspicious of what was going on at Rovers but didn't want to talk about it and preferred to sit back and enjoy the ride. I made the point that exactly the same thing had happened under Nick Higgs' leadership and if Rovers fans had been more militant then, and brought him to task, he may possibly have listened and changed course before we sank into non-league and the debts ran out of control. Today I still feel uncomfortable being on the opposite side of the debate to posters like Oldie, Cheshire and Peter Parker. I understand the attraction of enjoying the ride, the pints with friends before the game and the laughs at the up's and down's we experience following Rovers. But we had all that under Nick Higgs and yet still some of us felt motivated to challenge Nick about his leadership style,lack of communication,commercial failings and apparent absence of any planning. What has Wael done to merit the acquiescence which we did not give Nick ? It's not about enjoying the ride per se, but certain posters don't help when they 'cry wolf' and nothing happens with the prophecies of doom or whatever it is this week.
Pseudo cryptic bollox from the like of the 'ciders' helps no one when there are genuine concerns
The Al_Qadi's have been far from perfect, learning curves, misunderstanding the football culture here or whatever it may be, but they have been far from the evil owners some seem desperate to portray them as because they aren't NH, local or 'the lesser spotted other consortium'
Ignoring history for a second and taking everything at face value, they have presided over far more at BRFC than many others other 20/30 years
The "ciders" don't always help themselves and I can understand the frustration with them but there is often a grain of truth in what they post. For example yesterday Severncider brought up the topic of "who is in charge" and now it appears there actually is a board meeting today which will address some serious issues on that subject. Severncider was criticised for starting the topic from two separate angles. The first group of fans refused to believe anything could possibly be wrong at Rovers and slated Severncider for making it up. The second group of fans slated him for causing unrest by bringing up a topic which, if true, was an internal matter and the club would be harmed by bringing it into the public domain. I am in what appears to be a very small third group of fans who look at things from a different angle. In any business or organization "whistleblowers" are very unpopular but they do serve a purpose and often things actually get better as a result of their activity. But clever businesses and organizations don't suffer from "whistleblowers" because they are astute enough to foresee potential problems and deal with them before any whistleblowing is necessary. As a result they do not suffer the reputational damage and disruption which whistleblowing brings. In this case it doesn't take much to piece together what is likely to be happening. When Martyn Starnes appointment was announced in March I suggested there should be a clear statement of what Martyn's role would be so that everyone was on the same page and we all understood what he was going to try to achieve. Doing that would help Martyn, it would help the people he was going to be working with and it would help us as fans form a positive view of the direction in which the club is going. Nothing was done, Martyn's opening statement on Monday was poor and now we apparently have a crisis involving non-playing staff. Is there anyone else out there who feels that so much of what goes wrong at Rovers is highly predictable and with just a bit of forethought and planning we could be a happier and more successful club ?
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Jul 12, 2018 15:09:43 GMT
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