Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Feb 13, 2018 12:43:13 GMT
For all those who are knocking the fact that the current owners are underwriting a growing debt pile. 1. Is it not a fact that the operating loss has increased year on year because of investment into a) Coaching staff etc b) Under 23 side and Academy 2. Pay increases for the manager and key players 3. Increased retail staffing and F&B outlets on match day Is this not what everyone wanted? On top of that there has been the capital investment into the sprinkler system on the pitch (a cock up but not the fault of the management), the purchase of the land for the proposed training ground etc. If they had just sat on their hands and carried on running a annual loss of between £750,000 to £1M what would the complaint then be? Now, I wish the threat of running the balance sheet down to nil net value was not the end result. But I don't see any other way than for the owners to "gift" their post club purchase money? Why would they do that? They are already underwriting the annual accounts as it is (auditors sign off). As I have said previously they may well be offsetting the losses against profits from another area of their corporate structure (speculation on my part I do not actually know this) but that would make sense in gaining a tax benefit. At the moment it appears to me we have a group of what appears to be perfectly sensible owners who are at the moment happy to supply funds to maintain the progress achieved over the last few years. We cannot influence this other than to continue with our support. Given the histrionics and hubris of the years after 2006 then I think we should stop the sniping and wait and see. After all, what else can we do? Very nice, except you pull the carpet out from under your argument with the very first line. They aren't underwriting anything, they've so far secured everything against the stadium. You are making the act of honouring their legal commitments (to pay what's owed) sound like some form of heroic altruism. You forgot to mention an unknown sum lost on UWE. You also forgot to mention that the income for the last accounting period, the one that showed - £1.6m would have been extraordinary due to them inheriting a promotion winning team. I don't know if the training field was even bought by the same legal entity that that loss relates to, do you? I'm not trying to knock them for the sake of it, but the way it's all secured against the piece of infrastructure that is essential for the club to function, and then the charge on the stadium, Wael talking rubbish, Hamer talking utter rubbish, it's a bit worrying, don't you think? Perhaps it's simply best to wait until the 2017 accounts are published and we will have a better understanding of the changes and what has/hasn't happened. At best any of us are speculating on one set of accounts under the Dwane Sports regime that doesn't tell us anything or hint at anything beyond what is in it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 12:46:48 GMT
Very nice, except you pull the carpet out from under your argument with the very first line. They aren't underwriting anything, they've so far secured everything against the stadium. You are making the act of honouring their legal commitments (to pay what's owed) sound like some form of heroic altruism. You forgot to mention an unknown sum lost on UWE. You also forgot to mention that the income for the last accounting period, the one that showed - £1.6m would have been extraordinary due to them inheriting a promotion winning team. I don't know if the training field was even bought by the same legal entity that that loss relates to, do you? I'm not trying to knock them for the sake of it, but the way it's all secured against the piece of infrastructure that is essential for the club to function, and then the charge on the stadium, Wael talking rubbish, Hamer talking utter rubbish, it's a bit worrying, don't you think? Perhaps it's simply best to wait until the 2017 accounts are published and we will have a better understanding of the changes and what has/hasn't happened. At best any of us are speculating on one set of accounts under the Dwane Sports regime that doesn't tell us anything or hint at anything beyond what is in it.
I don't see why these guys have allowed so much distrust to fester when a couple of well thought through statements would have cleared everything up. They could see the corner Higgs had backed himself into, did they learn nothing from that?
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 13, 2018 13:23:37 GMT
Thanks - I know how to find individual company information. I was rather hoping that you could provide a link to confirm your statement that relates to the 48 clubs in Div 1 and Div 2. So only 5 Clubs have assets greater than their debt - who would that be then? Have you actually gone through every single individual company accounts in the lower leagues, and you know the "90%" statement is correct? If so - well done you. Just wondered if would care to share.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 13:49:59 GMT
For all those who are knocking the fact that the current owners are underwriting a growing debt pile. 1. Is it not a fact that the operating loss has increased year on year because of investment into a) Coaching staff etc b) Under 23 side and Academy 2. Pay increases for the manager and key players 3. Increased retail staffing and F&B outlets on match day Is this not what everyone wanted? On top of that there has been the capital investment into the sprinkler system on the pitch (a cock up but not the fault of the management), the purchase of the land for the proposed training ground etc. If they had just sat on their hands and carried on running a annual loss of between £750,000 to £1M what would the complaint then be? Now, I wish the threat of running the balance sheet down to nil net value was not the end result. But I don't see any other way than for the owners to "gift" their post club purchase money? Why would they do that? They are already underwriting the annual accounts as it is (auditors sign off). As I have said previously they may well be offsetting the losses against profits from another area of their corporate structure (speculation on my part I do not actually know this) but that would make sense in gaining a tax benefit. At the moment it appears to me we have a group of what appears to be perfectly sensible owners who are at the moment happy to supply funds to maintain the progress achieved over the last few years. We cannot influence this other than to continue with our support. Given the histrionics and hubris of the years after 2006 then I think we should stop the sniping and wait and see. After all, what else can we do? Very nice, except you pull the carpet out from under your argument with the very first line. They aren't underwriting anything, they've so far secured everything against the stadium. You are making the act of honouring their legal commitments (to pay what's owed) sound like some form of heroic altruism. You forgot to mention an unknown sum lost on UWE. You also forgot to mention that the income for the last accounting period, the one that showed - £1.6m would have been extraordinary due to them inheriting a promotion winning team. I don't know if the training field was even bought by the same legal entity that that loss relates to, do you? I'm not trying to knock them for the sake of it, but the way it's all secured against the piece of infrastructure that is essential for the club to function, and then the charge on the stadium, Wael talking rubbish, Hamer talking utter rubbish, it's a bit worrying, don't you think? Incorrect. They are underwriting the losses. They don't have to. They could fold the club and sell the stadium. How they account for it is only important if they had an alternative. I don't see one, do you? And what they are doing, as I said, makes sense to me
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Feb 13, 2018 14:23:33 GMT
As does, to me, not spending a fortune on players when it looks as if we can get what DC wants far more economically.
Time will tell, but I'm getting a bit sick of reading all the doom and gloom stuff. If it happens it happens. Nothing we can do about it as far as I can see.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 14:25:00 GMT
Very nice, except you pull the carpet out from under your argument with the very first line. They aren't underwriting anything, they've so far secured everything against the stadium. You are making the act of honouring their legal commitments (to pay what's owed) sound like some form of heroic altruism. You forgot to mention an unknown sum lost on UWE. You also forgot to mention that the income for the last accounting period, the one that showed - £1.6m would have been extraordinary due to them inheriting a promotion winning team. I don't know if the training field was even bought by the same legal entity that that loss relates to, do you? I'm not trying to knock them for the sake of it, but the way it's all secured against the piece of infrastructure that is essential for the club to function, and then the charge on the stadium, Wael talking rubbish, Hamer talking utter rubbish, it's a bit worrying, don't you think? Incorrect. They are underwriting the losses. They don't have to. They could fold the club and sell the stadium. How they account for it is only important if they had an alternative. I don't see one, do you? And what they are doing, as I said, makes sense to me In the present market I'm moving money around to gain 2.5%, I wouldn't fold a business where I was paying myself 6%, would you? As stated earlier, honouring commitments isn't heroic. I have no idea what the alternatives are, show me the minutes of the meetings with UWE, you me, Colin Williams, Roger, Clive and several other people who are a lot smarter than myself can have a good look at them, we can then at least discuss what the alternatives could have been Who knows, maybe a call to UWE and the landing lights could be turned on again?
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 13, 2018 14:27:04 GMT
As Bamber states - we lost £1.6mil in the most recent set of accounts. That's a fact. When you say "our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues" - what research is that based on? Could you provide a link? All fans should be worried about their football club if they regular post annual losses. However 'most' Clubs effectively have a benefactor who is prepared to write off Xmil a year. So why should we be more worried? Well our annual losses are very high for the 3rd tier (despite average gates of around 9,000). Dwane Sports have not (so far) shown that they are prepared to write off their loans to Bristol Rovers. If they do - that's great. Baggsy me first in the queue to buy Wael a pint. If they don't - then we are in very serious trouble. can't be long until the 2017 accounts are published. Perhaps we will find out then what Dwane Sports have done. They have only been here through 1 set of published accounts so talk of being 'unwilling' is a bit of a misnomer unless you are expecting a public declaration of it
I printed the 2016 accounts off last week. (Useful study for my exams actually) was going to go through it and cast my 'expert' eye over it in more detail and will be interesting to see where/how the 2017 accounts compare
Even then it still won't necessarily clarify what Dwane Sports intentions are
PP - I don't see any down-side to a declaration. Might stop "the sniping". Does "sniping" equate to life-long fans of the Club asking perfectly reasonable questions of the owners? As for the 2016-2017 accounts - I'm sure Swiss will be going over them in some detail.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 14:29:27 GMT
can't be long until the 2017 accounts are published. Perhaps we will find out then what Dwane Sports have done. They have only been here through 1 set of published accounts so talk of being 'unwilling' is a bit of a misnomer unless you are expecting a public declaration of it
I printed the 2016 accounts off last week. (Useful study for my exams actually) was going to go through it and cast my 'expert' eye over it in more detail and will be interesting to see where/how the 2017 accounts compare
Even then it still won't necessarily clarify what Dwane Sports intentions are
PP - I don't see any down-side to a declaration. Might stop "the sniping". Does "sniping" equate to life-long fans of the Club asking perfectly reasonable questions of the owners? As for the 2017-2017 accounts - I'm sure Swiss will be going over them in some detail. Exactly this, we are asking because we care, not because we want to cause problems.
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Post by alloutofgas on Feb 13, 2018 23:30:50 GMT
Coming up to two years since the Al Qadis took over. They rode the wave of a double promotion very well indeed. Now that wave has diminished into nothing they are desperately treading water. No real explanation for why the UWE collapsed. Charge against the Mem. Non existent stadium redevelopment plans. Zero communication with the fans. Frosty relations between DC and the president. The mysterious departure of the Stadium Manager. Strong rumours of another takeover. It's just as well we have an absolute star in Darrell Clarke and a team who wants to perform for him. After the beam back of the Oxford game on Saturday, I sat in the bar when only a few were left watching the rugby. What an utter embarrassment the Supporters Club bar is. Why do we put up with such dreadful treatment as loyal supporters? Redeveloped Mem. Not a chance.
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Post by fanatical on Feb 14, 2018 1:15:56 GMT
1Coming up to two years since the Al Qadis took over. They rode the wave of a double promotion very well indeed. 2Now that wave has diminished into nothing they are desperately treading water. 3No real explanation for why the UWE collapsed. 4Charge against the Mem. 5Non existent stadium redevelopment plans. 6Zero communication with the fans 7Frosty relations between DC and the president. 8The mysterious departure of the Stadium Manager. 9Strong rumours of another takeover. 10It's just as well we have an absolute star in Darrell Clarke and a team who wants to perform for him. After the beam back of the Oxford game on Saturday, I sat in the bar when only a few were left watching the rugby. 11What an utter embarrassment the Supporters Club bar is. Why do we put up with such dreadful treatment as loyal supporters? Redeveloped Mem. 12 Not a chance. OR a different viewpoint 1Yes, two years is not long 2 a third promotion looming ? 3 It takes two to tango but only if they are in agreement 4 There has been a charge on the mem for the last 20 years 5 plans being formulated 6 is there any point when always rubbished by the anti brigade? 7 Don't be silly 8 a mystery you may not want to know more 9 Like all the others - rumours without foundation 10 Yes, on a five-year contract 11 as it has been for eighteen years before the Ai Qadi's arrived, did you complain then? 12 Give them a chance
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bs5
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Posts: 456
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Post by bs5 on Feb 14, 2018 7:54:48 GMT
Coming up to two years since the Al Qadis took over. They rode the wave of a double promotion very well indeed. Now that wave has diminished into nothing they are desperately treading water. No real explanation for why the UWE collapsed. Charge against the Mem. Non existent stadium redevelopment plans. Zero communication with the fans. Frosty relations between DC and the president. The mysterious departure of the Stadium Manager. Strong rumours of another takeover. It's just as well we have an absolute star in Darrell Clarke and a team who wants to perform for him. After the beam back of the Oxford game on Saturday, I sat in the bar when only a few were left watching the rugby. What an utter embarrassment the Supporters Club bar is. Why do we put up with such dreadful treatment as loyal supporters? Redeveloped Mem. Not a chance. Seen you sat in there by the telly
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Post by alloutofgas on Feb 14, 2018 8:54:25 GMT
1Coming up to two years since the Al Qadis took over. They rode the wave of a double promotion very well indeed. 2Now that wave has diminished into nothing they are desperately treading water. 3No real explanation for why the UWE collapsed. 4Charge against the Mem. 5Non existent stadium redevelopment plans. 6Zero communication with the fans 7Frosty relations between DC and the president. 8The mysterious departure of the Stadium Manager. 9Strong rumours of another takeover. 10It's just as well we have an absolute star in Darrell Clarke and a team who wants to perform for him. After the beam back of the Oxford game on Saturday, I sat in the bar when only a few were left watching the rugby. 11What an utter embarrassment the Supporters Club bar is. Why do we put up with such dreadful treatment as loyal supporters? Redeveloped Mem. 12 Not a chance. OR a different viewpoint 1Yes, two years is not long 2 a third promotion looming ? 3 It takes two to tango but only if they are in agreement 4 There has been a charge on the mem for the last 20 years 5 plans being formulated 6 is there any point when always rubbished by the anti brigade? 7 Don't be silly 8 a mystery you may not want to know more 9 Like all the others - rumours without foundation 10 Yes, on a five-year contract 11 as it has been for eighteen years before the Ai Qadi's arrived, did you complain then? 12 Give them a chance Fanatical. How apt.
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Post by fanatical on Feb 14, 2018 9:16:56 GMT
OR a different viewpoint 1Yes, two years is not long 2 a third promotion looming ? 3 It takes two to tango but only if they are in agreement 4 There has been a charge on the mem for the last 20 years 5 plans being formulated 6 is there any point when always rubbished by the anti brigade? 7 Don't be silly 8 a mystery you may not want to know more 9 Like all the others - rumours without foundation 10 Yes, on a five-year contract 11 as it has been for eighteen years before the Ai Qadi's arrived, did you complain then? 12 Give them a chance Fanatical. How apt. as is alloutofass
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Post by gasheadpirate on Feb 14, 2018 9:30:15 GMT
Come on children, place nicely. 😁
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 14, 2018 12:19:41 GMT
Thanks - I know how to find individual company information. I was rather hoping that you could provide a link to confirm your statement that relates to the 48 clubs in Div 1 and Div 2. So only 5 Clubs have assets greater than their debt - who would that be then? Have you actually gone through every single individual company accounts in the lower leagues, and you know the "90%" statement is correct? If so - well done you. Just wondered if would care to share. I assume you have waded through 48 separate company accounts, or have found research from someone who has. Please share. I guess it would be logical to conclude that you're either being very protective about the 'research'... or you just made it up and hoped no-one would notice.
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