trunky
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 230
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Post by trunky on Feb 12, 2018 16:24:39 GMT
I think our present owners could well turn out to be the worst thing that has ever happened to this club. It's only the fact that we have got a brilliant manager that is allowing us to tread water, and I cant see him staying here for the long term. Imagine where we would be if we had the likes of Paul Buckle running things.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 16:43:49 GMT
I think our present owners could well turn out to be the worst thing that has ever happened to this club. It's only the fact that we have got a brilliant manager that is allowing us to tread water, and I cant see him staying here for the long term. Imagine where we would be if we had the likes of Paul Buckle running things. The owners would be in a bad place. How many months on are we from the collapse of the stadium deal now? Apparently a redevelopment of the mem is going to happen but all we seem to know for certain is that some consultants have been appointed. There was a lot of agitation in January when Bodin was sold and relegation looked a possibility. DC has done very well over the last month and a half and the agitation has died down as things on the pitch are ticking over very well. To bring it back to Buckle if he was in charge and taking us to relegation there would be massive pressure on DS to improve the situation, as it is they continue to coast along on the back of the good work by DC distracting everyone from the off-field questions.
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Post by fanatical on Feb 12, 2018 17:09:00 GMT
You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country? Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club?Because for a L1 club our income is huge yet we still posted a loss of £1.6m on the last accounts. The owners seem to share KP's concern, can you think of any other reason for the charge on the stadium? Yes, I can - as did the great G Dunford - who took advantage of the last Board's naivety - this Board are not so daft.
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Post by fanatical on Feb 12, 2018 17:13:51 GMT
You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country?Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club? So a business losing money is obviously fine just so long as all of it's competitors are losing money? I'm sure that is a strategy for success That is not what I said and you know it - but unlike those who throw money at a loss, our shareholders are looking to EARN a sustainable company. And you still did not answer the question - what a surprise? knockers never do!
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Post by fanatical on Feb 12, 2018 17:17:18 GMT
I think our present owners could well turn out to be the worst thing that has ever happened to this club. It's only the fact that we have got a brilliant manager that is allowing us to tread water, and I cant see him staying here for the long term. Imagine where we would be if we had the likes of Paul Buckle running things. Thanks to a five-year contract we have the best manager in the third tier - I wonder who arranged that - oh yes - our present owners.
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Feb 12, 2018 17:19:14 GMT
You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country? Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club? As Bamber states - we lost £1.6mil in the most recent set of accounts. That's a fact. When you say "our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues" - what research is that based on? Could you provide a link? All fans should be worried about their football club if they regular post annual losses. However 'most' Clubs effectively have a benefactor who is prepared to write off Xmil a year. So why should we be more worried? Well our annual losses are very high for the 3rd tier (despite average gates of around 9,000). Dwane Sports have not (so far) shown that they are prepared to write off their loans to Bristol Rovers. If they do - that's great. Baggsy me first in the queue to buy Wael a pint. If they don't - then we are in very serious trouble. can't be long until the 2017 accounts are published. Perhaps we will find out then what Dwane Sports have done. They have only been here through 1 set of published accounts so talk of being 'unwilling' is a bit of a misnomer unless you are expecting a public declaration of it
I printed the 2016 accounts off last week. (Useful study for my exams actually) was going to go through it and cast my 'expert' eye over it in more detail and will be interesting to see where/how the 2017 accounts compare
Even then it still won't necessarily clarify what Dwane Sports intentions are
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 17:27:58 GMT
Because for a L1 club our income is huge yet we still posted a loss of £1.6m on the last accounts. The owners seem to share KP's concern, can you think of any other reason for the charge on the stadium? Yes, I can - as did the great G Dunford - who took advantage of the last Board's naivety - this Board are not so daft. These half answers are pretty tedious. So, who would send the bailiffs round to change the locks on the stadium then?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 17:29:55 GMT
So a business losing money is obviously fine just so long as all of it's competitors are losing money? I'm sure that is a strategy for success That is not what I said and you know it - but unlike those who throw money at a loss, our shareholders are looking to EARN a sustainable company. And you still did not answer the question - what a surprise? knockers never do! The answer is that we as rovers fans don't give a fig for what is happening at other clubs but are justifiably worried about the escalating level of debthe at rovers.when do you think that the club is going to be sustainable when we are told that the break even figure is 3000 above capacity this is official figures not plucked out of things air.so in effect we are averaging only 60% crowds versus sustain ability and no amount of rose tinted glasses can change those figures. Some of us live in the real world and are concerned enough to voice them
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Post by droitwichgas on Feb 12, 2018 19:04:25 GMT
That is not what I said and you know it - but unlike those who throw money at a loss, our shareholders are looking to EARN a sustainable company. And you still did not answer the question - what a surprise? knockers never do! The answer is that we as rovers fans don't give a fig for what is happening at other clubs but are justifiably worried about the escalating level of debthe at rovers.when do you think that the club is going to be sustainable when we are told that the break even figure is 3000 above capacity this is official figures not plucked out of things air.so in effect we are averaging only 60% crowds versus sustain ability and no amount of rose tinted glasses can change those figures. Some of us live in the real world and are concerned enough to voice them But that business model is no different than NH's the main difference being we don't need to borrow money from wonga?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 19:19:58 GMT
The answer is that we as rovers fans don't give a fig for what is happening at other clubs but are justifiably worried about the escalating level of debthe at rovers.when do you think that the club is going to be sustainable when we are told that the break even figure is 3000 above capacity this is official figures not plucked out of things air.so in effect we are averaging only 60% crowds versus sustain ability and no amount of rose tinted glasses can change those figures. Some of us live in the real world and are concerned enough to voice them But that business model is no different than NH's the main difference being we don't need to borrow money from wonga? No we are owing nearly 4 times as much to a different lender
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bs5
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 456
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Post by bs5 on Feb 12, 2018 20:51:27 GMT
How bleak would things be without dwayne sports? No new signings No top players signing improved contracts. No development squad No darrell clarke No chris hargreaves No league 1 football no exciting training ground development No new toilets and club shop No rovers mad co-owner No safe protection from insolvency No real hope of a prosperous future No chance of a redeveloped mem near the fantastic gloucester road Luckily we have got dwayne sports and the future is brighter than its ever been for bristol rovers. Ps obviously we need to pay for the fence as well. Cor someone’s been on the crackpipe
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 23:41:23 GMT
You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country? Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club? As Bamber states - we lost £1.6mil in the most recent set of accounts. That's a fact. When you say "our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues" - what research is that based on? Could you provide a link? All fans should be worried about their football club if they regular post annual losses. However 'most' Clubs effectively have a benefactor who is prepared to write off Xmil a year. So why should we be more worried? Well our annual losses are very high for the 3rd tier (despite average gates of around 9,000). Dwane Sports have not (so far) shown that they are prepared to write off their loans to Bristol Rovers. If they do - that's great. Baggsy me first in the queue to buy Wael a pint. If they don't - then we are in very serious trouble. So if you are off setting losses within a corporate grouping you would openly declare that you will write loans off?? The fact remains the debt is 100% internal.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 0:00:28 GMT
As Bamber states - we lost £1.6mil in the most recent set of accounts. That's a fact. When you say "our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues" - what research is that based on? Could you provide a link? All fans should be worried about their football club if they regular post annual losses. However 'most' Clubs effectively have a benefactor who is prepared to write off Xmil a year. So why should we be more worried? Well our annual losses are very high for the 3rd tier (despite average gates of around 9,000). Dwane Sports have not (so far) shown that they are prepared to write off their loans to Bristol Rovers. If they do - that's great. Baggsy me first in the queue to buy Wael a pint. If they don't - then we are in very serious trouble. So if you are off setting losses within a corporate grouping you would openly declare that you will write loans off?? The fact remains the debt is 100% internal. So you are saying that the loans, the interest and the charge are just so that they can be seen to be following normal business protocol?
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 13, 2018 8:59:58 GMT
So a business losing money is obviously fine just so long as all of it's competitors are losing money? I'm sure that is a strategy for success That is not what I said and you know it - but unlike those who throw money at a loss, our shareholders are looking to EARN a sustainable company. And you still did not answer the question - what a surprise? knockers never do! If that's not what you saying then I'd rephrase it. As to answering your question I'm only interested & concerned about the fate of Bristol Rovers and indeed have no great knowledge of other clubs financial position (though I'd guess most aren't good). We can worry less when there is evidence of the owners writing off the debts that we have, just like the owner of the other club in Bristol. Do you have any evidence to suggest we should worry less than the fans of other clubs?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 13, 2018 9:37:46 GMT
I think our present owners could well turn out to be the worst thing that has ever happened to this club. It's only the fact that we have got a brilliant manager that is allowing us to tread water, and I cant see him staying here for the long term. Imagine where we would be if we had the likes of Paul Buckle running things. The owners would be in a bad place. How many months on are we from the collapse of the stadium deal now? Apparently a redevelopment of the mem is going to happen but all we seem to know for certain is that some consultants have been appointed. There was a lot of agitation in January when Bodin was sold and relegation looked a possibility. DC has done very well over the last month and a half and the agitation has died down as things on the pitch are ticking over very well. To bring it back to Buckle if he was in charge and taking us to relegation there would be massive pressure on DS to improve the situation, as it is they continue to coast along on the back of the good work by DC distracting everyone from the off-field questions. 1. UWE Stadium deal collapsed on August 3rd (so over 6 months ago). 2. "Apparently a redevelopment of the mem is going to happen but all we seem to know for certain is that some consultants have been appointed". Errr - no we don't. No-one can name the contractors (and/or the names of any employees) involved in assessing the options regarding redeveloping the Memorial Stadium. I have asked this question repeatedly on here, and the Board directly. It's either a remarkably covert operation - or plans to redevelop the Mem do not exist.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 13, 2018 9:39:12 GMT
My fear is in around 3 seasons and carrying on haemorrhaging money, we will be in serious trouble and maybe earlier than that. The owners won’t hear of outside investment either. Anyone’s guess is as good as the others but we are not in a good place financially though many simply don’t cafe to think about it. Maybe they are right You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country? Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club? When you say "our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues" - what research is that based on? Could you provide a link? Thanks.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 13, 2018 9:50:32 GMT
As Bamber states - we lost £1.6mil in the most recent set of accounts. That's a fact. When you say "our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues" - what research is that based on? Could you provide a link? All fans should be worried about their football club if they regular post annual losses. However 'most' Clubs effectively have a benefactor who is prepared to write off Xmil a year. So why should we be more worried? Well our annual losses are very high for the 3rd tier (despite average gates of around 9,000). Dwane Sports have not (so far) shown that they are prepared to write off their loans to Bristol Rovers. If they do - that's great. Baggsy me first in the queue to buy Wael a pint. If they don't - then we are in very serious trouble. So if you are off setting losses within a corporate grouping you would openly declare that you will write loans off?? The fact remains the debt is 100% internal. Correct comrade - currently the debt is 100% internal. If the owners were going to write off the loan from Dwane Sports to Bristol Rovers - why would you not unequivocally declare it? Until they do - people will continue to question the owners and their motives / future strategy for the football Club.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 10:00:59 GMT
For all those who are knocking the fact that the current owners are underwriting a growing debt pile.
1. Is it not a fact that the operating loss has increased year on year because of investment into
a) Coaching staff etc
b) Under 23 side and Academy
2. Pay increases for the manager and key players
3. Increased retail staffing and F&B outlets on match day
Is this not what everyone wanted?
On top of that there has been the capital investment into the sprinkler system on the pitch (a cock up but not the fault of the management), the purchase of the land for the proposed training ground etc.
If they had just sat on their hands and carried on running a annual loss of between £750,000 to £1M what would the complaint then be? Now, I wish the threat of running the balance sheet down to nil net value was not the end result. But I don't see any other way than for the owners to "gift" their post club purchase money? Why would they do that? They are already underwriting the annual accounts as it is (auditors sign off). As I have said previously they may well be offsetting the losses against profits from another area of their corporate structure (speculation on my part I do not actually know this) but that would make sense in gaining a tax benefit. At the moment it appears to me we have a group of what appears to be perfectly sensible owners who are at the moment happy to supply funds to maintain the progress achieved over the last few years. We cannot influence this other than to continue with our support. Given the histrionics and hubris of the years after 2006 then I think we should stop the sniping and wait and see. After all, what else can we do?
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Post by fanatical on Feb 13, 2018 10:36:04 GMT
You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country? Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club? When you say "our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues" - what research is that based on? Could you provide a link? Thanks. wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 11:24:17 GMT
For all those who are knocking the fact that the current owners are underwriting a growing debt pile. 1. Is it not a fact that the operating loss has increased year on year because of investment into a) Coaching staff etc b) Under 23 side and Academy 2. Pay increases for the manager and key players 3. Increased retail staffing and F&B outlets on match day Is this not what everyone wanted? On top of that there has been the capital investment into the sprinkler system on the pitch (a cock up but not the fault of the management), the purchase of the land for the proposed training ground etc. If they had just sat on their hands and carried on running a annual loss of between £750,000 to £1M what would the complaint then be? Now, I wish the threat of running the balance sheet down to nil net value was not the end result. But I don't see any other way than for the owners to "gift" their post club purchase money? Why would they do that? They are already underwriting the annual accounts as it is (auditors sign off). As I have said previously they may well be offsetting the losses against profits from another area of their corporate structure (speculation on my part I do not actually know this) but that would make sense in gaining a tax benefit. At the moment it appears to me we have a group of what appears to be perfectly sensible owners who are at the moment happy to supply funds to maintain the progress achieved over the last few years. We cannot influence this other than to continue with our support. Given the histrionics and hubris of the years after 2006 then I think we should stop the sniping and wait and see. After all, what else can we do? Very nice, except you pull the carpet out from under your argument with the very first line. They aren't underwriting anything, they've so far secured everything against the stadium. You are making the act of honouring their legal commitments (to pay what's owed) sound like some form of heroic altruism. You forgot to mention an unknown sum lost on UWE. You also forgot to mention that the income for the last accounting period, the one that showed - £1.6m would have been extraordinary due to them inheriting a promotion winning team. I don't know if the training field was even bought by the same legal entity that that loss relates to, do you? I'm not trying to knock them for the sake of it, but the way it's all secured against the piece of infrastructure that is essential for the club to function, and then the charge on the stadium, Wael talking rubbish, Hamer talking utter rubbish, it's a bit worrying, don't you think?
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