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Post by Blue Mist on Feb 2, 2018 17:24:38 GMT
Ha that's a laugh, held out a bit longer and we might not have a club to moan about but this discussions been done to death. We are unanimous in our disappointment at the failed UWE stadium. Maybe Iris is on the happy pills, got laid last night or something but he was just pointing out many of the positives. I think he made some good points. By the response nobody appears that interested in positivity. The problem is that those positives are really quite lame- "no new toilets or club shop", seriously?! As a Rovers fan of some years now I for one am tired of how small time we are and continue to be and looking for positives like that just emphasises it. We may have gone bust, we may not, we will never know. According to Wael DS beat 10 other bidders! Some would say Higgs sold him a pup but after hearing an old interview with Wael the other day about how fantastic their due diligence was you would think he would know the veracity of that claim. I for one really struggle that some people can be so happy with the status quo. Just because Higgs ran us into the ground it seems that we have now lost any right to feel that things aren't really good enough following the collapse of the UWE. We should be grateful for DS, interest, charges covering the value of the stadium and no real sign of building works of any note Okay fine, I get it. I will shut up, accept my medicine and resign myself to the fact that Rovers are ragbag and be chuffed to bits about it. Remember when Paul Buckle got slated for telling everyone to lower their expectations? Dwane Sports have given a masterclass in how to get fans to accept mediocrity off the pitch. I'm certainly not saying I'm happy with the status quo and I do believe you and all fans have the right to feel things aren't yet good enough. For me its a matter of giving them time, however small those changes might be change has to start somewhere.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Post by warehamgas on Feb 2, 2018 17:46:48 GMT
Hope you are right blue mist. UTG!
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 2, 2018 17:50:54 GMT
It's "Dwane Sports". Nov 19th 2018 blueiris: "Its difficult to feel optimistic about the situation with the owners right now". Read more: gasheads.org/user/2065/recent#ixzz55wXOPZBQSerious question - Why the change of heart? I got caught up in the frustration of the uwe collapse and dc not getting the budget he wanted.The owners sent out over optimistic signals without a doubt and its created issues within us fans.But ive got over that now and ive seen so many improvements in the running of the club that its made me realise were very lucky to have dwane sports.The latest example is spending quite a bit of the bodin money in the transfer window.
Thanks for the response. I think you were nearer the truth in November though! Don't know if "spending quite a bit of the bodin money in the transfer window" can be quite justified. Undisclosed fees so we can only guesstimate. However £350k-£450k for Bodin - £50-£100k for Mensah leaves anywhere between £250k and £400k to spend. We got two free transfers. They may be excellent signings (in DC we trust). But what happens to the balance? Does it go against the annual losses that Dwane Sports are racking up? Or does it go towards the summer budget? Answers on a post-card.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 2, 2018 17:56:14 GMT
This is part of the circular argument about what would have happened had the hapless NB continued. I believe we were headed for trouble and thankfully Wael et al Qs stepped in, not to deliver the riches many thought with their millions, but really a continuation of the stagnation but on a safer and more realistic footing.Sounds about right. But only if Dwane Sports are prepared to waive £1.5mil a year.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 18:05:13 GMT
Interesting thread you've started here. As you like people to only post facts and you reference other clubs' finances, maybe you could list for us the clubs outside of the PL who have posted a profit in each of the last 5 years without loans or injections of equity? Then we could understand what it is that we are competing against. I think you have taken my thread too literally,its my optimistic view of our club right now with some facts and some possible facts. Not many clubs is the answer clearly,newcastle in the championship last season,norwich and wallsall are i believe breaking even or better. If you look on the insider media website on championship clubs finances it shows clearly what were up against. In fact you could make a good argument that you cant get anywhere in football without losing millions of pounds. I would suggest there is something badly wrong with the FFP system not to mention league ones version of it. What's a ''possible fact''? Discount Newcastle as they had their PL parachute money. (£40,915,922, really, 41 million quid!) Walsall made a trading profit, but wasn't that achieved by increasing their debt and their overdraft? Norwich, not sure what year you are looking at. They were relegated from the PL in the 15~16 season, huge parachute payments, they also got just under £41m, yet their accounts for 16~17 still recorded a loss of -£2.6m. Anyway, back to the point. It looks like you are making a moral stand against football finances as they are and against owners who are prepared to lose money funding clubs? Fair enough. I'm not sure that the manager is fully behind this view though. I guess the real issue for me is the owners communicating what their intentions are. Firstly, they could have made that totally clear if the whole show had to be self financing, even today there seems to be some confusion with people waiting for them to spend on the first team, so it looks as if they failed to get across the message that they wouldn't be funding the club out of their own pockets? Maybe they don't do enough to make us all aware of what's happening with youths etc and how much is being spent there? If everything hinges on a self sustaining model, they really should have had Plan B in place just in case UWE fell out of bed. As Wael said when asked about the charge on the stadium, in business you never know what can happen, so shouldn't they have had a plan for their 'Beautiful piece of land' at least on the drawing board?
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Post by PessimistGas on Feb 2, 2018 18:33:25 GMT
It is a very twee appraisal of our owners. If we had held out a bit longer we might have had a guy like matey at Wolves take over the club, pissing money up the wall to get us into the Premiership. That would make DS's austerity model look exactly like what it sadly is: a slow boat to nowhere. However, knowing our fanbase if we had an owner like that fans would still be unhappy because ragbag Rovers is a way of life and the appeal of the club is precisely because of the self-flagellation of supporting a perennial underdog playing in a joke of a stadium and struggling to survive in the 3rd or 4th tier. So maybe we should be thankful for DS because they are exactly the owners that we deserve in many respects? I suppose thats whats happened to football clubs and supporters. Fans stamping up and down demanding massive spending of money which their clubs havnt got but many rich owners have. You want the wolves owners or steve lansdown or the preston owner or anyone to give us lots of money we havnt got and dont earn. I think we are entitled to demand faculties fit for the 21st century as well as a plan stating how we going to achieve it.
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topman
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Post by topman on Feb 2, 2018 19:54:42 GMT
With respect I think some are missing the main reason for our shortcomings as a club without cash and heavily in debt
Football is no longer a sport but a stupid business plan touted by the Premier League, accepted by the lap dog FA and subsidised by the likes of Sky and BT
Wages are astronomical even at our level and unsustainable purely on attendances never mind higher up
It will take the demise of a club (s) to bring some reality back to the game
A good analogy is comparing the recent trend in property prices totally out of kilter to what should be sensible affordability
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 19:59:18 GMT
I got caught up in the frustration of the uwe collapse and dc not getting the budget he wanted.The owners sent out over optimistic signals without a doubt and its created issues within us fans.But ive got over that now and ive seen so many improvements in the running of the club that its made me realise were very lucky to have dwane sports.The latest example is spending quite a bit of the bodin money in the transfer window.
Thanks for the response. I think you were nearer the truth in November though! Don't know if "spending quite a bit of the bodin money in the transfer window" can be quite justified. Undisclosed fees so we can only guesstimate. However £350k-£450k for Bodin - £50-£100k for Mensah leaves anywhere between £250k and £400k to spend. We got two free transfers. They may be excellent signings (in DC we trust). But what happens to the balance? Does it go against the annual losses that Dwane Sports are racking up? Or does it go towards the summer budget? Answers on a post-card. My thinking on the bodin money was that bennett tore up a new 3 year deal signed in august so wouldnt have come without the same security and craig will probably have an 18 month deal with both of them higher end earners at our club imo . With mensah Its probably a 2 year deal and about a £100k fee. So even if those estimates are not spot on its still serious spending of the bodin money imo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 20:11:59 GMT
I think you have taken my thread too literally,its my optimistic view of our club right now with some facts and some possible facts. Not many clubs is the answer clearly,newcastle in the championship last season,norwich and wallsall are i believe breaking even or better. If you look on the insider media website on championship clubs finances it shows clearly what were up against. In fact you could make a good argument that you cant get anywhere in football without losing millions of pounds. I would suggest there is something badly wrong with the FFP system not to mention league ones version of it. What's a ''possible fact''? Discount Newcastle as they had their PL parachute money. (£40,915,922, really, 41 million quid!) Walsall made a trading profit, but wasn't that achieved by increasing their debt and their overdraft? Norwich, not sure what year you are looking at. They were relegated from the PL in the 15~16 season, huge parachute payments, they also got just under £41m, yet their accounts for 16~17 still recorded a loss of -£2.6m. Anyway, back to the point. It looks like you are making a moral stand against football finances as they are and against owners who are prepared to lose money funding clubs? Fair enough. I'm not sure that the manager is fully behind this view though. I guess the real issue for me is the owners communicating what their intentions are. Firstly, they could have made that totally clear if the whole show had to be self financing, even today there seems to be some confusion with people waiting for them to spend on the first team, so it looks as if they failed to get across the message that they wouldn't be funding the club out of their own pockets? Maybe they don't do enough to make us all aware of what's happening with youths etc and how much is being spent there? If everything hinges on a self sustaining model, they really should have had Plan B in place just in case UWE fell out of bed. As Wael said when asked about the charge on the stadium, in business you never know what can happen, so shouldn't they have had a plan for their 'Beautiful piece of land' at least on the drawing board? A possible fact for example is "no dc" he might well not have signed a 5 year deal if higgs had soldiered on. Ive said before that i believe we need to give dwane sports more time after the uwe set back but we do need to see some positive plans to improve the club as soon as possible,that is true. With dc its obvious the club isnt progressing fast enough for his ambition but i still think he has had a fair amount of support from the owners,for example lockyer,menayese and broadbent signing new deals and the january signings. The self sustaining model is a puzzle i admit,is such a thing even possible in the modern game without stagnation and decline setting in? Were losing money just like most clubs so why cant we survive like most clubs?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Feb 2, 2018 22:21:44 GMT
Signings I know about, results on the field I see, contract extensions I know, DC/CH are top notch, development squad is coming on nicely I know, you missed out improved support staff which I also know. Everything else is just a wish-list albeit one that Wael has mentioned. I am positive and try to remain so but for the new ground, the training facility and improving the physical infrastructure I am hopeful rather than expectant. I hope it will happen but this is Rovers so not expecting it to. All Wael needed to do was come out with some kind of Plan B after the UWE went the way of so many other ground schemes. We’ve waited 6 months and the silence is deafening. I don’t think some kind of statement, vision, plans for the future was too much to ask for so in that respect I will be suspicious until we get some ideas of what the plans are, if there are any. There’s nothing I can do about it so I just support DC and the team and that has been very great. But until something happens with a new ground it will always be a huge elephant in the room, and there’s no getting away from that imo if we are going to progress, and that’s stuff for any owners to do something about. So like you blueiris I’m hopeful and positive but am not going to post too much about how wonderful they are. Blimey, supporting Rovers has never been easy but in today’s football world where there’s money swilling about at the top end it has just got harder financially for any lower league team and especially any team like us with a ***t stadium. UTG! Pretty much this but about 15% less optimistic when you take into account the debt situation and the training ground situation.
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Post by Colyton Gas. on Feb 2, 2018 22:59:45 GMT
The lack of a plan 'B' is certainly a cause for concern.Imagine if we got promoted the Mem would only have 3 months for the substantial upgrading required for the Championship.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 23:33:01 GMT
With respect I think some are missing the main reason for our shortcomings as a club without cash and heavily in debt Football is no longer a sport but a stupid business plan touted by the Premier League, accepted by the lap dog FA and subsidised by the likes of Sky and BT Wages are astronomical even at our level and unsustainable purely on attendances never mind higher up It will take the demise of a club (s) to bring some reality back to the game A good analogy is comparing the recent trend in property prices totally out of kilter to what should be sensible affordability Absolutely, but while it is like it is you have to do what you always have to do in life: adapt or die. Sadly BRFC can't adapt because our owners refuse to keep up with our peers A club like ours is not suitable for a family like the Al Qadis who either dont or aren't willing to spend the money required. Football is a game for rich idiots. The AQs are not rich (by football standards) and by not risking their own money they are obiously not idiots. In the end it is Bristol Rovers and the long suffering fans who will suffer (as usual)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 23:41:18 GMT
Interesting thread you've started here. As you like people to only post facts and you reference other clubs' finances, maybe you could list for us the clubs outside of the PL who have posted a profit in each of the last 5 years without loans or injections of equity? Then we could understand what it is that we are competing against. I think you have taken my thread too literally,its my optimistic view of our club right now with some facts and some possible facts. Not many clubs is the answer clearly,newcastle in the championship last season,norwich and wallsall are i believe breaking even or better. If you look on the insider media website on championship clubs finances it shows clearly what were up against. In fact you could make a good argument that you cant get anywhere in football without losing millions of pounds. I would suggest there is something badly wrong with the FFP system not to mention league ones version of it. Totally agree, but to quote that man Oscar Gamble "they don't think it be like it is, but it do". And that is it basically, spend, spend, spend or get left behind. We are going to get left behind. Some fans seem like they will enjoy that, taking a stand by going backwards and not paying the money required to compete. There are plenty of park teams to watch for people who feel that way. If you want to succeed in the upper reaches of the league pyramid you need to spend money. Honestly, I sometimes think Owen Oyston would be welcome with open arms here by gasheads as long as he kept the club going on a day to day basis. That seems to be all we ask of the Al Qadis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 23:52:32 GMT
I think you have taken my thread too literally,its my optimistic view of our club right now with some facts and some possible facts. Not many clubs is the answer clearly,newcastle in the championship last season,norwich and wallsall are i believe breaking even or better. If you look on the insider media website on championship clubs finances it shows clearly what were up against. In fact you could make a good argument that you cant get anywhere in football without losing millions of pounds. I would suggest there is something badly wrong with the FFP system not to mention league ones version of it. Totally agree, but to quote that man Oscar Gamble "they don't think it be like it is, but it do". And that is it basically, spend, spend, spend or get left behind. We are going to get left behind. Some fans seem like they will enjoy that, taking a stand by going backwards and not paying the money required to compete. There are plenty of park teams to watch for people who feel that way. If you want to succeed in the upper reaches of the league pyramid you need to spend money. Honestly, I sometimes think Owen Oyston would be welcome with open arms here by gasheads as long as he kept the club going on a day to day basis. That seems to be all we ask of the Al Qadis. I still see the best squad we have had since 1999-2000 and the owners have played a big part in adding to the remarkable signings and retaining decisions dc made before the conference season. I mean at the end of the day the actual football still counts. For the club to progress the owners need to come up with a plan,we know and they know it so lets see what happens. You might think we have waited long enough but i dont[with dwane],so im prepared to give them time and space for progressive plans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 0:28:58 GMT
Totally agree, but to quote that man Oscar Gamble "they don't think it be like it is, but it do". And that is it basically, spend, spend, spend or get left behind. We are going to get left behind. Some fans seem like they will enjoy that, taking a stand by going backwards and not paying the money required to compete. There are plenty of park teams to watch for people who feel that way. If you want to succeed in the upper reaches of the league pyramid you need to spend money. Honestly, I sometimes think Owen Oyston would be welcome with open arms here by gasheads as long as he kept the club going on a day to day basis. That seems to be all we ask of the Al Qadis. I still see the best squad we have had since 1999-2000 and the owners have played a big part in adding to the remarkable signings and retaining decisions dc made before the conference season. I mean at the end of the day the actual football still counts. For the club to progress the owners need to come up with a plan,we know and they know it so lets see what happens. You might think we have waited long enough but i dont[with dwane],so im prepared to give them time and space for progressive plans. That is totally fair enough, you don't have the slavish devotion that some seem to have to DS. And that is all we can do from this point, give them time see how it all pans out and see who was right! As much as I am really not a fan of theirs I hope it all works out, my fear is that we will be 3-4 years down the line and nothing will have substantially changed.
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 11, 2018 23:38:52 GMT
I still see the best squad we have had since 1999-2000 and the owners have played a big part in adding to the remarkable signings and retaining decisions dc made before the conference season. I mean at the end of the day the actual football still counts. For the club to progress the owners need to come up with a plan,we know and they know it so lets see what happens. You might think we have waited long enough but i dont[with dwane],so im prepared to give them time and space for progressive plans. That is totally fair enough, you don't have the slavish devotion that some seem to have to DS. And that is all we can do from this point, give them time see how it all pans out and see who was right! As much as I am really not a fan of theirs I hope it all works out, my fear is that we will be 3-4 years down the line and nothing will have substantially changed. My fear is in around 3 seasons and carrying on haemorrhaging money, we will be in serious trouble and maybe earlier than that. The owners won’t hear of outside investment either. Anyone’s guess is as good as the others but we are not in a good place financially though many simply don’t cafe to think about it. Maybe they are right
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Post by fanatical on Feb 12, 2018 13:42:27 GMT
That is totally fair enough, you don't have the slavish devotion that some seem to have to DS. And that is all we can do from this point, give them time see how it all pans out and see who was right! As much as I am really not a fan of theirs I hope it all works out, my fear is that we will be 3-4 years down the line and nothing will have substantially changed. My fear is in around 3 seasons and carrying on haemorrhaging money, we will be in serious trouble and maybe earlier than that. The owners won’t hear of outside investment either. Anyone’s guess is as good as the others but we are not in a good place financially though many simply don’t cafe to think about it. Maybe they are right You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country? Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 13:50:34 GMT
My fear is in around 3 seasons and carrying on haemorrhaging money, we will be in serious trouble and maybe earlier than that. The owners won’t hear of outside investment either. Anyone’s guess is as good as the others but we are not in a good place financially though many simply don’t cafe to think about it. Maybe they are right You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country? Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club?Because for a L1 club our income is huge yet we still posted a loss of £1.6m on the last accounts. The owners seem to share KP's concern, can you think of any other reason for the charge on the stadium?
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Feb 12, 2018 13:51:37 GMT
My fear is in around 3 seasons and carrying on haemorrhaging money, we will be in serious trouble and maybe earlier than that. The owners won’t hear of outside investment either. Anyone’s guess is as good as the others but we are not in a good place financially though many simply don’t cafe to think about it. Maybe they are right You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country?Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club? So a business losing money is obviously fine just so long as all of it's competitors are losing money? I'm sure that is a strategy for success
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 12, 2018 15:41:34 GMT
My fear is in around 3 seasons and carrying on haemorrhaging money, we will be in serious trouble and maybe earlier than that. The owners won’t hear of outside investment either. Anyone’s guess is as good as the others but we are not in a good place financially though many simply don’t cafe to think about it. Maybe they are right You know that for a fact? compared with every other club in the country? Currently, it is widely said that our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues Why should we be more worried than any other club? As Bamber states - we lost £1.6mil in the most recent set of accounts. That's a fact. When you say "our debts are about the same as our assets - better than 90% of all clubs in the lower leagues" - what research is that based on? Could you provide a link? All fans should be worried about their football club if they regular post annual losses. However 'most' Clubs effectively have a benefactor who is prepared to write off Xmil a year. So why should we be more worried? Well our annual losses are very high for the 3rd tier (despite average gates of around 9,000). Dwane Sports have not (so far) shown that they are prepared to write off their loans to Bristol Rovers. If they do - that's great. Baggsy me first in the queue to buy Wael a pint. If they don't - then we are in very serious trouble.
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