stargas
Gary Mabbutt
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 128
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Post by stargas on Jan 8, 2018 18:16:21 GMT
Other than perhaps Plymouth the rest don’t come anywhere near Rovers in regards to support base but Rovers have the potential to be larger than all of these n regards to potential support. Plymouth have the potential to be big, one team city and drawing support from Devon,bits of Somerset and Cornwall a big catchment area.
Rovers are second club in a two club city,apart from the early 70s league cup games at Eastville and the cup games against Southampton and Ipswich crowds have never been big since I started going (67) even the promotion season under Megson the average attendance was only 13,000 ? Rovers had the lowest home crowds in the 2nd division (Championship) in the mid/late 70s. OK Bristol has a bigger population now but a lot of the growth is students who have settled here after being at Uni here or foreign immigrants Somalis,Polish,Chinese etc etc who have either no interest in attending matches or no interest in football outside the Premiership.
Until we get a new stadium I'll have to agree with you about attendances. The Vetch was a crap hole too (maybe not quite as embarrassing as our crap hole tbf) and their attendances from the mid 80's for twenty years averaged less than 5000 per game. Then they moved!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 18:53:07 GMT
Plymouth have the potential to be big, one team city and drawing support from Devon,bits of Somerset and Cornwall a big catchment area.
Rovers are second club in a two club city,apart from the early 70s league cup games at Eastville and the cup games against Southampton and Ipswich crowds have never been big since I started going (67) even the promotion season under Megson the average attendance was only 13,000 ? Rovers had the lowest home crowds in the 2nd division (Championship) in the mid/late 70s. OK Bristol has a bigger population now but a lot of the growth is students who have settled here after being at Uni here or foreign immigrants Somalis,Polish,Chinese etc etc who have either no interest in attending matches or no interest in football outside the Premiership.
Until we get a new stadium I'll have to agree with you about attendances. The Vetch was a crap hole too (maybe not quite as embarrassing as our crap hole tbf) and their attendances from the mid 80's for twenty years averaged less than 5000 per game. Then they moved! Yes they moved,however they also went into the Championship and then the Premier league,the twenty years that you mention were at 3rd and 4th tier level,a club in the doldrums. Now look at Swans average attendances from 78 to 82 when they were on the rise,in 82 ( when crowds around the country were poor) they were in the top flight and averaged 18,200 ! they averaged 20,000 ? last season.
Now IF Rovers built a £45,000,000 stadium and stayed at 3rd tier level what would the attendance rise to? lets be extravagant and say it would rise by 50% to 13,500, sounds good but the extra revenue wouldn't pay the interest on £45,000,000,so it doesn't make business sense.
The point that I am trying to make is that people will watch a winning team in any dump of a stadium, 18,200 at the Vetch ! which was crap I agree. Better to have a winning side than a shiny stadium,cheaper too.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 18:56:07 GMT
Until we get a new stadium I'll have to agree with you about attendances. The Vetch was a crap hole too (maybe not quite as embarrassing as our crap hole tbf) and their attendances from the mid 80's for twenty years averaged less than 5000 per game. Then they moved! Yes they moved,however they also went into the Championship and then the Premier league,the twenty years that you mention were at 3rd and 4th tier level,a club in the doldrums. Now look at Swans average attendances from 78 to 82 when they were on the rise,in 82 ( when crowds around the country were poor) they were in the top flight and averaged 18,200 ! they averaged 20,000 ? last season.
Now IF Rovers built a £45,000,000 stadium and stayed at 3rd tier level what would the attendance rise to? lets be extravagant and say it would rise by 50% to 13,500, sounds good but the extra revenue wouldn't pay the interest on £45,000,000,so it doesn't make business sense.
They were in L1 when they built it.
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Post by PessimistGas on Jan 8, 2018 19:09:07 GMT
Until we get a new stadium I'll have to agree with you about attendances. The Vetch was a crap hole too (maybe not quite as embarrassing as our crap hole tbf) and their attendances from the mid 80's for twenty years averaged less than 5000 per game. Then they moved! Yes they moved,however they also went into the Championship and then the Premier league,the twenty years that you mention were at 3rd and 4th tier level,a club in the doldrums. Now look at Swans average attendances from 78 to 82 when they were on the rise,in 82 ( when crowds around the country were poor) they were in the top flight and averaged 18,200 ! they averaged 20,000 ? last season.
Now IF Rovers built a £45,000,000 stadium and stayed at 3rd tier level what would the attendance rise to? lets be extravagant and say it would rise by 50% to 13,500, sounds good but the extra revenue wouldn't pay the interest on £45,000,000,so it doesn't make business sense.
The point that I am trying to make is that people will watch a winning team in any dump of a stadium, 18,200 at the Vetch ! which was crap I agree. Better to have a winning side than a shiny stadium,cheaper too.
You don't build a £45m stadium to hang around in League 1. It gives you the platform to push on. Where do you reckon Swansea would be now had they stayed at The Vetch?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:36:36 GMT
Yes they moved,however they also went into the Championship and then the Premier league,the twenty years that you mention were at 3rd and 4th tier level,a club in the doldrums. Now look at Swans average attendances from 78 to 82 when they were on the rise,in 82 ( when crowds around the country were poor) they were in the top flight and averaged 18,200 ! they averaged 20,000 ? last season.
Now IF Rovers built a £45,000,000 stadium and stayed at 3rd tier level what would the attendance rise to? lets be extravagant and say it would rise by 50% to 13,500, sounds good but the extra revenue wouldn't pay the interest on £45,000,000,so it doesn't make business sense.
The point that I am trying to make is that people will watch a winning team in any dump of a stadium, 18,200 at the Vetch ! which was crap I agree. Better to have a winning side than a shiny stadium,cheaper too.
You don't build a £45m stadium to hang around in League 1. It gives you the platform to push on. Where do you reckon Swansea would be now had they stayed at The Vetch? I don't know where they would be,a decent manager properly backed like Toshack was could have got them going upwards but then the Vetch would have had to have been improved and expansion would have been difficult. So Swansea probably did the right thing for them,I don't know anything about their financial situation or how the ground was financed.
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stargas
Gary Mabbutt
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 128
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Post by stargas on Jan 8, 2018 20:36:13 GMT
Until we get a new stadium I'll have to agree with you about attendances. The Vetch was a crap hole too (maybe not quite as embarrassing as our crap hole tbf) and their attendances from the mid 80's for twenty years averaged less than 5000 per game. Then they moved! Yes they moved,however they also went into the Championship and then the Premier league,the twenty years that you mention were at 3rd and 4th tier level,a club in the doldrums. Now look at Swans average attendances from 78 to 82 when they were on the rise,in 82 ( when crowds around the country were poor) they were in the top flight and averaged 18,200 ! they averaged 20,000 ? last season.
Now IF Rovers built a £45,000,000 stadium and stayed at 3rd tier level what would the attendance rise to? lets be extravagant and say it would rise by 50% to 13,500, sounds good but the extra revenue wouldn't pay the interest on £45,000,000,so it doesn't make business sense.
The point that I am trying to make is that people will watch a winning team in any dump of a stadium, 18,200 at the Vetch ! which was crap I agree. Better to have a winning side than a shiny stadium,cheaper too.
As stated above, the Liberty was being built while they were playing in League 2, this is a passage from their supporters trust history section: "By 2005, however, there was a new air of optimism at the club as they prepared to leave the Vetch Field after more than 90 years to move into the new purpose-built Liberty Stadium. The move from the Vetch was completed in style with the club securing promotion to League One. Further progress in 2007/08 saw the club promoted, as Champions, to the Football League – Coca Cola Championship. Swansea City Play Off Winners 2011 The following three seasons saw the Club improve its league position year on year, despite having a new manager each season! In May 2011, 40,000 “Jacks” saw the Swans beat Reading 4-2 in the Championship Play Off Final at Wembley." www.swanstrust.co.uk/history-of-swansea-city/Back to BRFC, any clue on stadium plans would be most welcome. We all know tents and portacabins are not the way forward. After all, a wise man once said "The club absolutely requires a new stadium" (01:47) www.itv.com/news/west/2016-02-19/jordanian-billionaire-why-i-bought-bristol-rovers/
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Post by PessimistGas on Jan 8, 2018 20:46:14 GMT
Yes they moved,however they also went into the Championship and then the Premier league,the twenty years that you mention were at 3rd and 4th tier level,a club in the doldrums. Now look at Swans average attendances from 78 to 82 when they were on the rise,in 82 ( when crowds around the country were poor) they were in the top flight and averaged 18,200 ! they averaged 20,000 ? last season.
Now IF Rovers built a £45,000,000 stadium and stayed at 3rd tier level what would the attendance rise to? lets be extravagant and say it would rise by 50% to 13,500, sounds good but the extra revenue wouldn't pay the interest on £45,000,000,so it doesn't make business sense.
The point that I am trying to make is that people will watch a winning team in any dump of a stadium, 18,200 at the Vetch ! which was crap I agree. Better to have a winning side than a shiny stadium,cheaper too.
As stated above, the Liberty was being built while they were playing in League 2, this is a passage from their supporters trust history section: "By 2005, however, there was a new air of optimism at the club as they prepared to leave the Vetch Field after more than 90 years to move into the new purpose-built Liberty Stadium. The move from the Vetch was completed in style with the club securing promotion to League One. Further progress in 2007/08 saw the club promoted, as Champions, to the Football League – Coca Cola Championship. Swansea City Play Off Winners 2011 The following three seasons saw the Club improve its league position year on year, despite having a new manager each season! In May 2011, 40,000 “Jacks” saw the Swans beat Reading 4-2 in the Championship Play Off Final at Wembley." www.swanstrust.co.uk/history-of-swansea-city/Back to BRFC, any clue on stadium plans would be most welcome. We all know tents and portacabins are not the way forward. After all, a wise man once said "The club absolutely requires a new stadium" (01:47) www.itv.com/news/west/2016-02-19/jordanian-billionaire-why-i-bought-bristol-rovers/The club absolutely required new stadium but that was two years ago. The language has gradually shifted to redevloping the Mem as we have a beautiful piece of land and now it is improving the facilities at the Mem. I think people can draw their own conclusions.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jan 9, 2018 14:30:55 GMT
Yes they moved,however they also went into the Championship and then the Premier league,the twenty years that you mention were at 3rd and 4th tier level,a club in the doldrums. Now look at Swans average attendances from 78 to 82 when they were on the rise,in 82 ( when crowds around the country were poor) they were in the top flight and averaged 18,200 ! they averaged 20,000 ? last season.
Now IF Rovers built a £45,000,000 stadium and stayed at 3rd tier level what would the attendance rise to? lets be extravagant and say it would rise by 50% to 13,500, sounds good but the extra revenue wouldn't pay the interest on £45,000,000,so it doesn't make business sense.
The point that I am trying to make is that people will watch a winning team in any dump of a stadium, 18,200 at the Vetch ! which was crap I agree. Better to have a winning side than a shiny stadium,cheaper too.
As stated above, the Liberty was being built while they were playing in League 2, this is a passage from their supporters trust history section: "By 2005, however, there was a new air of optimism at the club as they prepared to leave the Vetch Field after more than 90 years to move into the new purpose-built Liberty Stadium. The move from the Vetch was completed in style with the club securing promotion to League One. Further progress in 2007/08 saw the club promoted, as Champions, to the Football League – Coca Cola Championship. Swansea City Play Off Winners 2011 The following three seasons saw the Club improve its league position year on year, despite having a new manager each season! In May 2011, 40,000 “Jacks” saw the Swans beat Reading 4-2 in the Championship Play Off Final at Wembley." www.swanstrust.co.uk/history-of-swansea-city/Back to BRFC, any clue on stadium plans would be most welcome. We all know tents and portacabins are not the way forward. After all, a wise man once said "The club absolutely requires a new stadium" (01:47) www.itv.com/news/west/2016-02-19/jordanian-billionaire-why-i-bought-bristol-rovers/Yes - in Swansea's case it was definitely the stadium that acted as a catalyst to turn around a failing club. I'm not sure that is always the case though and they (along with Hull) may have been the last true example of that. There is the law of diminishing returns. Ie. If everyone has a good stadium then building one is unlikely to have as dramatic effect on your fortunes as it did for previous clubs. Of course, stating the obvious, that means that if you don't have one you are even further behind them relatively speaking though. But my view is that from the point of view of 2017/18 building a decent stadium is just what we need to do to have a chance of becoming an upwardly mobile club - it's not a guarantee of becoming an upwardly mobile club which 20 years ago it probably was (or at least there was a much better chance that it was). I's the problem with being '30 years behind the times'.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 23, 2018 17:21:57 GMT
I think Bosman messed it up, if a player has only 5 months left on his contract, the buying club are in a very strong position. I don't disagree with that at all, and I think we got all we could in the circumstances. I just don't see it as the positive the OP does, we've sold probably £3m worth (based on goals and ability) of players for under £1m. But we were over a barrel with MT and who could have predicted how good B.B. became ? MY wouldn’t sign not without the get out clause so we got a final 20 goals out of him and B B wanted to go elsewhere so we can’t lay the blame at DC’s feet. I think he deserves praise in bringing the players here & getting the best out of them. They both should be very grateful. Thats how I see it anyway
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 23, 2018 17:26:19 GMT
Until we get a new stadium I'll have to agree with you about attendances. The Vetch was a crap hole too (maybe not quite as embarrassing as our crap hole tbf) and their attendances from the mid 80's for twenty years averaged less than 5000 per game. Then they moved! Yes they moved,however they also went into the Championship and then the Premier league,the twenty years that you mention were at 3rd and 4th tier level,a club in the doldrums. Now look at Swans average attendances from 78 to 82 when they were on the rise,in 82 ( when crowds around the country were poor) they were in the top flight and averaged 18,200 ! they averaged 20,000 ? last season.
Now IF Rovers built a £45,000,000 stadium and stayed at 3rd tier level what would the attendance rise to? lets be extravagant and say it would rise by 50% to 13,500, sounds good but the extra revenue wouldn't pay the interest on £45,000,000,so it doesn't make business sense.
The point that I am trying to make is that people will watch a winning team in any dump of a stadium, 18,200 at the Vetch ! which was crap I agree. Better to have a winning side than a shiny stadium,cheaper too.
Totally agree. Winning games is what it’s ALL about. If we were doing well then much of the forensic dissection wouldn’t be happening too, at least that’s what I believe
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Gashead
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 260
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Post by Gashead on Jan 23, 2018 18:57:07 GMT
We don't need to drastically change/leave the Mem because Swansea got 18,000 at the Vetch 35 years ago. Interesting.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,455
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 23, 2018 20:08:54 GMT
I suppose a bit of a pattern with MT and BB insofar as they both left in the January window for a lot less than we might have expected, though we don’t really know with all this undisclosed stuff. It’s happened but I hope we’ve learnt through it and the new contracts for TL and TB tells me we are doing something to secure our best players. I hope something can be sorted in the next six months to secure Ellis and Liam S on better deals. We will always be a selling club, any team below the Championship will be, but I would hope we sell more advantageously for us and not the other clubs. I would never want to go back to the days of everyone getting three year contracts but we do need some judgements made to get our better players on possibly that or at least some kind of rolling contracts. We need to make those judgements imo. I still think our recruitment infrastructure, scouts, scouting system, and possibly someone to look after contracts seems well below that of others and until we change it..... UTG!
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 24, 2018 13:07:24 GMT
We don't need to drastically change/leave the Mem because Swansea got 18,000 at the Vetch 35 years ago. Interesting. Fact is we don’t fill the mem. I saw a video highlights of when we were at Birmingham, for the FA cup and it looks awful when a larger stadium is only even half filled. It’s one of those diabolical situations where we need the extra revenue but cannot fulfill that need. I think the only way we could dream of filling ANY stadium is if we are producing on the pitch. As one of the posters said, we were only getting 13K under Don Megson and in the division above where we are now, with cheaper entrance by comparison to today’s inflated prices. I truly believe we have already lost out when we let city build their place first. I’ve been there and regardless of my thoughts on them, it’s an impressive place and the service and choices of food and drinks are fantastic and quick to serve. I do not see evolution as being a way to combat this. We need someone or owners with a sense of urgency about them. I see nothing at all in the owners that suggests any urgency at all, I see quite the opposite and it’s galling to hear the line “ these things take time” not really they don’t, they need money & the willingness to part with it, to get things moving. I’m afraid that the words of SL may well come to pass. In years to come no one will talk of bristol Rovers ! Sorry if this offends but our fan base is ageing and we will lose more of them. Unless someone is prepared to bankroll and move us forward then we will continue the haemorrhage money and we all know how that ends
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 24, 2018 13:09:19 GMT
I suppose a bit of a pattern with MT and BB insofar as they both left in the January window for a lot less than we might have expected, though we don’t really know with all this undisclosed stuff. It’s happened but I hope we’ve learnt through it and the new contracts for TL and TB tells me we are doing something to secure our best players. I hope something can be sorted in the next six months to secure Ellis and Liam S on better deals. We will always be a selling club, any team below the Championship will be, but I would hope we sell more advantageously for us and not the other clubs. I would never want to go back to the days of everyone getting three year contracts but we do need some judgements made to get our better players on possibly that or at least some kind of rolling contracts. We need to make those judgements imo. I still think our recruitment infrastructure, scouts, scouting system, and possibly someone to look after contracts seems well below that of others and until we change it..... UTG! What scouting system ?
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Post by fanatical on Jan 26, 2018 10:27:50 GMT
As stated above, the Liberty was being built while they were playing in League 2, this is a passage from their supporters trust history section: "By 2005, however, there was a new air of optimism at the club as they prepared to leave the Vetch Field after more than 90 years to move into the new purpose-built Liberty Stadium. The move from the Vetch was completed in style with the club securing promotion to League One. Further progress in 2007/08 saw the club promoted, as Champions, to the Football League – Coca Cola Championship. Swansea City Play Off Winners 2011 The following three seasons saw the Club improve its league position year on year, despite having a new manager each season! In May 2011, 40,000 “Jacks” saw the Swans beat Reading 4-2 in the Championship Play Off Final at Wembley." www.swanstrust.co.uk/history-of-swansea-city/Back to BRFC, any clue on stadium plans would be most welcome. We all know tents and portacabins are not the way forward. After all, a wise man once said "The club absolutely requires a new stadium" (01:47) www.itv.com/news/west/2016-02-19/jordanian-billionaire-why-i-bought-bristol-rovers/The club absolutely required new stadium but that was two years ago. The language has gradually shifted to redevloping the Mem as we have a beautiful piece of land and now it is improving the facilities at the Mem. I think people can draw their own conclusions.That is a problem at the moment - too many on here are doing that and often 2 + 2 = 9 or in your case PesimistGas 2+2= 3
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