SE5 Gas
Joined: July 2014
Posts: 113
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Post by SE5 Gas on Jul 27, 2017 21:05:16 GMT
linkGreat article this searching for answers on why we don't get more fans with BAME backgrounds at the Mem.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 27, 2017 21:25:56 GMT
Bizarre trying to compare Rovers to Bradford & goes to show just how far away from reality those placed to lead this scheme are so wide of the mark that it truly spins me out. Bristol is nothing even close to Bradford plus, until people are truly comfortable and committed to tackle the latent racism then it will carry on, passed in from parents to their kids It's sad when this forum even closes down a thread that attempts to discuss it. Things dint just go away because you refuse to acknowledge them
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holmz
Walking in a Rovers wonderland
Joined: March 2016
Posts: 18
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Post by holmz on Jul 27, 2017 23:07:23 GMT
Admin.. please lock or anchor this thread before it gets out of hand..
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Post by gasheadnaboo on Jul 27, 2017 23:44:54 GMT
linkGreat article this searching for answers on why we don't get more fans with BAME backgrounds at the Mem. Utter tosh. Wonder how long it took them to do a headcount of 9000 people?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:42:00 GMT
A debate on this subject can be a problem for forum moderators because as soon racists post racist comments they have to act. Its a shame because i think there is great potential for a healthy debate in this area. To me its madness that bristol rovers dont have a higher percentage of ethnic minorities and i believe the club should be pro-active in tackling this issue. Does our owner ever wonder why there are only white faces at football grounds[mostly]? IF wael our owner was totally unknown to us and just turned up at a home match would he feel comfortable?
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Post by tanksfull on Jul 28, 2017 7:10:13 GMT
linkGreat article this searching for answers on why we don't get more fans with BAME backgrounds at the Mem. "the average Rovers crowd looks pretty much the same." Does it? After 10 years it looks 10 years older and after 20 years it looks 20 years older...
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Jul 28, 2017 9:24:47 GMT
Omar in the article (although as one voice not statistically representative) sums up why BAME people do not go to Rovers, and it's success (or really glory hunting) that is sought; he said it was not racism. This is indeed why the other 30 000 Bristolians who go on the odd day out to Wembley do not actively support Rovers on a cold wet Tuesday.
It's easy to say "it's not part of their culture", but in supporting cricket ethnic minorities turn out in large numbers for their country of origin despite much integration, and most BAME countries do not have strong national football sides/leagues. You cannot expect people to do something they do not want to or feel an affinity for.
Sadly it's fashionable to 'support' big teams and some of their success/fame appears to rub off onto themselves; this is true of a lot of other 'supporters'. The PC Brigade go looking for racism wherever it can, BAME groups would not, I believe, feel threatened coming onto the Blackthorn, unless wearing a City shirt.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 9:32:00 GMT
Admin.. please lock or anchor this thread before it gets out of hand.. 2 posts in, a new forum record
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Post by laughinggas on Jul 28, 2017 10:11:34 GMT
When we move to new stadium we will need larger attendances, fact. Aside from students, who we currently try to encourage, we need to encourage more people from the catchment area. It has been agreed by many need to attract the kids as they are the future and initially will bring adults and mates. I'm not sure if we need to target specific "groups" or can we be general.
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 28, 2017 11:19:01 GMT
When we move to new stadium we will need larger attendances, fact. Aside from students, who we currently try to encourage, we need to encourage more people from the catchment area. It has been agreed by many need to attract the kids as they are the future and initially will bring adults and mates. I'm not sure if we need to target specific "groups" or can we be general.
Bristol Rovers needs to promote it's self. If it does those that are interested will attend, be they old, young, Black, Asian, men or women.
I think targeting a specific ethnic group(s) can be patronising to be honest. I don't doubt that there will always be factors that would encourage certain sections of people to attend, be it an Asian player, or an Arabic owner maybe. Nothing wrong with going to an 'Asian community' and marketing Bristol rovers, but Bristol Rovers must be marketed, not we are Bristol rovers and we need more BAME supporters (or any other club for that matter)
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 11:40:28 GMT
When we move to new stadium we will need larger attendances, fact. Aside from students, who we currently try to encourage, we need to encourage more people from the catchment area. It has been agreed by many need to attract the kids as they are the future and initially will bring adults and mates. I'm not sure if we need to target specific "groups" or can we be general. There are no student tickets, Rovers does nothing to appeal to students.
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Post by laughinggas on Jul 28, 2017 12:56:06 GMT
When we move to new stadium we will need larger attendances, fact. Aside from students, who we currently try to encourage, we need to encourage more people from the catchment area. It has been agreed by many need to attract the kids as they are the future and initially will bring adults and mates. I'm not sure if we need to target specific "groups" or can we be general. There are no student tickets, Rovers does nothing to appeal to students. No but they go to freshers day, so should have said they are targeted.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 13:05:03 GMT
There are no student tickets, Rovers does nothing to appeal to students. No but they go to freshers day, so should have said they are targeted. They target 18-21 year old students, there's nothing for people older, it's pathetic.
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Jul 28, 2017 13:08:36 GMT
Tickets have been given out to students, but I'm not sure the value of that as they will have their own clubs, or are unlikely to become Rovers' supporters as it would probably just be a free afternoon out. Unless they are going to get a good experience, even the cost of a reduced ticket has to be balanced against 3 or 4 pints in the pub/Students Union. I had a bunch of six or so students behind me once and they spent their time on their phones checking Prem fixtures and online bookies.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
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Post by irishrover on Jul 28, 2017 13:34:21 GMT
I feel this is as much an issue for football in general as Rovers in particular.
However, the issue with Rovers appealing to BME groups is currently the same as the challenge to convert anyone who doesn't have supporting lower league football etched into their identity. Ie. We experience this bubble of going to games, enjoying the experience of passionately supporting our team etc. For most of us that's great and we couldn't understand how someone could like football and not want to have that experience - it's a bit like the reaction to people who only watch their Prem team on TV, we're always likely to think that these people are not just 'not proper football fans' but that they're missing out on the full experience. But I think we have to recognise that if we are inside our little bubble where attending live games and following our team is everything then perhaps sometimes we fail to acknowledge why it's not so attractive to people outside of that bubble. If you have no prior attachment to a lower league football club, if it wasn't in the family, if your mates don't go, then why should standing in a dilapidated stadium watching 2nd rate players run around particularly appeal to you when you have a whole world of football at your fingertips for free? An important point about nearly all BME communities in this country is that they are disproportionately young compared with the general population and I think there are 2 issues 1)most people are initially taken to football matches by their parents and get the bug that way which is less likely to have happened within those communities because of a perception among older people of football grounds being unwelcoming places but also tending to have less disposable income to spare - younger generations in these communities are nearly always comparably better off than their parents 2)there's an issue with young people in general and their changing attitudes to attending games I think. When I moved to Manchester 7 years I thought I was moving to a football hotbed but what has constantly surprised me is how few people actually go to the games. The pubs (and Shisha Bars) are packed for any United or City game but I know only a handful of people who regularly attend matches and they're all over 50. That's not just a price or access to tickets issue either - it's actually quite easy to get hold of reasonably priced tickets to Man City games but I know lots of City fans who would consider themselves hardcore supporters who never go, particularly youngsters. Is this about not appreciating the live football experience? Having other competing priorities? I don't know and I don't know if this is anything other than anecdotal observation but it seems to me as if there is a generation of football fans coming through who are engaging with the game in a different kind of way. Going to games is a habit - if you never form it during important formative years then it is hard to establish it later on.
The other point is that I don't think people realise sometimes quite how unique English sporting culture is in terms of its focus on the team over the individual or sense of quality/occasion, and the way that this is so strongly geographically rooted. I spoke to a Portuguese guy after our Grimsby triumph who simply could not believe that 30,000 people travelled to Wembley to watch a 5th tier playoff final - in Portugal people support the big 3 and a few other clubs but after that the drop in support for smaller clubs is dramatic, and which of the big 3 you support is only loosely based on geographical attachment. There's just nothing like the depth of attachment to a club as representing your community. I'm not saying that's a uniquely English thing - but I do think the depth of attachments to so many different sports and so many different place is stronger in English sporting culture than nearly anywhere else. In quite a lot of the world this is just not a thing at all. You may have an attachment to a national team or a side that clearly represents a particular community or class but the idea of a huge national spread of clubs drawing on strong support based on local geographical areas is not universal concept - not even in football. I have a lot of friends in the South Asian community in Manchester who I play cricket with and you will struggle to find a more passionate set of people when it comes to engaging with that sport. Some of the people I know literally live to play and watch cricket and if there's an international at Old Trafford they will normally try and go. But I'd have no chance of getting them to watch Lancashire play there - they just don't feel a connection and it's mainly because they don't see Lancashire as interesting or worth paying to watch - there are no individual stars and they don't represent something they have a meaningful association with. And that's the point. If you look at the IPL it is very much set up as individuals v individuals, with no consistency in teams from year to year - I find that alien to my understanding of team sport yet I know people who follow individual players passionately and switch team allegiances when the players move on to another team because that's what it's all about to them.
My point is that watching sport is something you are socialised into doing and there are lots of different ways in which people do it - expecting groups (whoever they are) to engage with the sport on the same level that existing long standing supporters do is probably unrealistic. And that equally applies to changes in demographics of football supporters - everyone moans about the lack of atmosphere at Prem games as it becomes more gentrified; clearly middle class people want a different and more passive experience to working class people. One size fits all approach to marketing and appealing to people is not going to work in the longer term. But I honestly don't think Rovers will have much major success in expanding the fanbase in any direction until we have a stadium set up which appeals to more than people like me unfortunately. The people in your interviews certainly didn't find the idea of attending football matches ridiculous - but they also didn't sound like they were feeling a massive magnetic pull to attend either which is what most of us feel I think. That's the secret in the long run.
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topman
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 187
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Post by topman on Jul 28, 2017 18:28:52 GMT
On reading the title thread and other comments I am not sure whether I feel depressed or bemused!
I have supported Rover for over 50 years and I genuinely believe that most normal fans would never set out to either be abusive or non accepting of any non white supporters
Those that do are probably the same ones who bring any club into disrepute by aggressive behaviour and spoil the game for others under a mistaken belief that they are 'true' supporters
If potential supporters of any background want to watch Rovers I honestly believe that the majority of Rovers fans would NOT make them feel unwelcome
Maybe I am being delusional or perhaps it is that in both my professional and personal life I treat people as I find them... Period
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SE5 Gas
Joined: July 2014
Posts: 113
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Post by SE5 Gas on Jul 28, 2017 18:47:08 GMT
The article agrees with most of what you say topman.
In addition though they are trying to think about why more BAME supporters don't follow the gas and most importantly - What could be done to get more along to the Mem and result in bigger attendances and revenues for the club
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topman
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 187
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Post by topman on Jul 28, 2017 19:02:44 GMT
Not sure that any category of race should be overtly targeted as we would be stepping into the frankly stupid arena of positive discrimination which I have never believed is correct in terms of job applications for example
Whilst done for the best of intentions it runs the risk of working against itself and fans the flames of prejudice from others usually white IMO the best person for the job is the one who has the right credentials abilities and personal qualities
The PC and Diversity 'industry' has made a fortune for some and not always for the right reasons
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 19:12:59 GMT
Not sure that any category of race should be overtly targeted as we would be stepping into the frankly stupid arena of positive discrimination which I have never believed is correct in terms of job applications for example Whilst done for the best of intentions it runs the risk of working against itself and fans the flames of prejudice from others usually white IMO the best person for the job is the one who has the right credentials abilities and personal qualities The PC and Diversity 'industry' has made a fortune for some and not always for the right reasons look at the state SOUTH AFRICA has gotten into
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 20:05:21 GMT
On reading the title thread and other comments I am not sure whether I feel depressed or bemused! I have supported Rover for over 50 years and I genuinely believe that most normal fans would never set out to either be abusive or non accepting of any non white supporters Those that do are probably the same ones who bring any club into disrepute by aggressive behaviour and spoil the game for others under a mistaken belief that they are 'true' supporters If potential supporters of any background want to watch Rovers I honestly believe that the majority of Rovers fans would NOT make them feel unwelcome Maybe I am being delusional or perhaps it is that in both my professional and personal life I treat people as I find them... Period I think its just that nagging doubt that a person might feel unwelcome or wishing there was already noticeable diversity at football matches that could be enough to put people off going. But certainly another big factor is that the premier league is the only real attraction to most people. But even on a purely commercial level it must be worth the club trying ways to establish a more diverse fanbase.
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