strung out
Administrator
Paul Hardyman
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 758
|
Post by strung out on Aug 20, 2017 12:06:54 GMT
Given that in your first post on this forum you said you'd be prepared to walk away from supporting Bristol Rovers if there were too many brown people in the crowd, I think we know exactly how much notice to pay to anything you say. But "unamused" didn't say that. You could infer from his initial post that he might hold some unsavoury views but he never mentioned skin colour. This is his first post on the forum... my bold: " Rovers does not need to make its fan base more "diverse" nor would it benefit from doing so. I'd even wager it would harm the club due to locals being driven away by the unwanted and unneeded changes. Most "progressives" mistake people tolerating "diversity" as a sign of them embracing and supporting it. Thanks to increasingly draconian laws we tolerate "diversity" like a victim of an armed robber tolerates handing over their money. My tolerance and the tolerance of many others extends only as far as the law requires. As somebody who has been raised a Gashead and owned my fair share of season tickets. It would sadden me if Rovers went down this route and forced me to turn my back on them, but it isn't a measure I would be unprepared to take" So essentially, if Rovers started making efforts to diversify their fanbase to more accurately represent the ethnic makeup of the city, then Unamused would be 'forced to turn his back' on Rovers. Seems pretty unequivocal to me.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 12:15:10 GMT
But "unamused" didn't say that. You could infer from his initial post that he might hold some unsavoury views but he never mentioned skin colour. This is his first post on the forum... my bold: " Rovers does not need to make its fan base more "diverse" nor would it benefit from doing so. I'd even wager it would harm the club due to locals being driven away by the unwanted and unneeded changes. Most "progressives" mistake people tolerating "diversity" as a sign of them embracing and supporting it. Thanks to increasingly draconian laws we tolerate "diversity" like a victim of an armed robber tolerates handing over their money. My tolerance and the tolerance of many others extends only as far as the law requires. As somebody who has been raised a Gashead and owned my fair share of season tickets. It would sadden me if Rovers went down this route and forced me to turn my back on them, but it isn't a measure I would be unprepared to take" So essentially, if Rovers started making efforts to diversify their fanbase to more accurately represent the ethnic makeup of the city, then Unamused would be 'forced to turn his back' on Rovers. Seems pretty unequivocal to me. where is colour mentioned ? fwiw i agree in that if you want to watch rovers/city/any other team then feel free. if not - dont.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 12:16:38 GMT
its about time the usual lot start clamouring for admin to lock the thread or set it to sink, cant have current affairs being discussed , rovers /guess the crowd bring it back . I am in on this topic. Don't think I am racist, nor a Marxist. Definitely not politically correct. But I do think that the people that shout racist abuse are ignorant and pathetic. Equally, and I mean equally, those that judge others by their skin colour, race or creed, are ignorant and pathetic. The former are a small minority, the latter a larger minority. Both evaluated equally
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 12:18:59 GMT
its about time the usual lot start clamouring for admin to lock the thread or set it to sink, cant have current affairs being discussed , rovers /guess the crowd bring it back . I am in on this topic. Don't think I am racist, nor a Marxist. Definitely not politically correct. But I do think that the people that shout racist abuse are ignorant and pathetic. Equally, and I mean equally, those that judge others by their skin colour, race or creed, are ignorant and pathetic. The former are a small minority, the latter a larger minority. Both evaluated equally i agree and [ i think] all others on this thread do whats your thoughts on filling quotas in respect of skin colour/cultures at football ?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 12:21:54 GMT
I am in on this topic. Don't think I am racist, nor a Marxist. Definitely not politically correct. But I do think that the people that shout racist abuse are ignorant and pathetic. Equally, and I mean equally, those that judge others by their skin colour, race or creed, are ignorant and pathetic. The former are a small minority, the latter a larger minority. Both evaluated equally i agree and [ i think] all others on this thread do whats your thoughts on filling quotas in respect of skin colour/cultures at football ? Never heard of quotas. Never heard of affirmative action in football. As for expanding our customer base, totally for it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 12:53:47 GMT
This is his first post on the forum... my bold: " Rovers does not need to make its fan base more "diverse" nor would it benefit from doing so. I'd even wager it would harm the club due to locals being driven away by the unwanted and unneeded changes. Most "progressives" mistake people tolerating "diversity" as a sign of them embracing and supporting it. Thanks to increasingly draconian laws we tolerate "diversity" like a victim of an armed robber tolerates handing over their money. My tolerance and the tolerance of many others extends only as far as the law requires. As somebody who has been raised a Gashead and owned my fair share of season tickets. It would sadden me if Rovers went down this route and forced me to turn my back on them, but it isn't a measure I would be unprepared to take" So essentially, if Rovers started making efforts to diversify their fanbase to more accurately represent the ethnic makeup of the city, then Unamused would be 'forced to turn his back' on Rovers. Seems pretty unequivocal to me. where is colour mentioned ? fwiw i agree in that if you want to watch rovers/city/any other team then feel free. if not - dont. In the OP, which is referenced by diversity in quotation marks. It really couldn't be clearer. I agree with your 2nd point entirely.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 13:31:40 GMT
its about time the usual lot start clamouring for admin to lock the thread or set it to sink, cant have current affairs being discussed , rovers /guess the crowd bring it back . I am in on this topic. Don't think I am racist, nor a Marxist. Definitely not politically correct. But I do think that the people that shout racist abuse are ignorant and pathetic. Equally, and I mean equally, those that judge others by their skin colour, race or creed, are ignorant and pathetic. The former are a small minority, the latter a larger minority. Both evaluated equally Mostly agree, but I think we've moved on and there are maybe more people now desperate to find offense being caused than there are people actually causing it. It's certainly been a tactic of the left in any form of social debate since the 1980s. Debate not going so well? Just shout that the other person is racist. It even works in theological debates and moderators never pull people up on it, as if members of a religious group were, by default, a race. But this seems to be the world we live in.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 13:59:19 GMT
where is colour mentioned ? fwiw i agree in that if you want to watch rovers/city/any other team then feel free. if not - dont. In the OP, which is referenced by diversity in quotation marks. It really couldn't be clearer. I agree with your 2nd point entirely. im on about strung out and his point
|
|
strung out
Administrator
Paul Hardyman
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 758
|
Post by strung out on Aug 20, 2017 14:44:40 GMT
In the OP, which is referenced by diversity in quotation marks. It really couldn't be clearer. I agree with your 2nd point entirely. im on about strung out and his point Given unamused's point is that he is explicitly against Rovers' making an effort to increase the diversity of the crowd that watches Rovers to better reflect the population of Bristol, I can't see how he isn't talking about race. I say again, if someone has such a problem with people from other diverse backgrounds coming to watch the gas that they'd rather turn their back on the club than support them, then they're not much of a loss to start with.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 15:21:57 GMT
im on about strung out and his point Given unamused's point is that he is explicitly against Rovers' making an effort to increase the diversity of the crowd that watches Rovers to better reflect the population of Bristol, I can't see how he isn't talking about race. I say again, if someone has such a problem with people from other diverse backgrounds coming to watch the gas that they'd rather turn their back on the club than support them, then they're not much of a loss to start with. im not sure he is saying hes against people with diverse backgrounds watching rovers, need him/her to clarify i suppose
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 16:09:25 GMT
I am in on this topic. Don't think I am racist, nor a Marxist. Definitely not politically correct. But I do think that the people that shout racist abuse are ignorant and pathetic. Equally, and I mean equally, those that judge others by their skin colour, race or creed, are ignorant and pathetic. The former are a small minority, the latter a larger minority. Both evaluated equally Mostly agree, but I think we've moved on and there are maybe more people now desperate to find offense being caused than there are people actually causing it. It's certainly been a tactic of the left in any form of social debate since the 1980s. Debate not going so well? Just shout that the other person is racist. It even works in theological debates and moderators never pull people up on it, as if members of a religious group were, by default, a race. But this seems to be the world we live in. I agree with your point, which is a Peter and the Wolf issue. But I must say that I quite often hear men making remarks about a woman's physical appearance whilst in a professional context, is that sexist, or is it being politically correct to think it is?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:03:32 GMT
Mostly agree, but I think we've moved on and there are maybe more people now desperate to find offense being caused than there are people actually causing it. It's certainly been a tactic of the left in any form of social debate since the 1980s. Debate not going so well? Just shout that the other person is racist. It even works in theological debates and moderators never pull people up on it, as if members of a religious group were, by default, a race. But this seems to be the world we live in. I agree with your point, which is a Peter and the Wolf issue. But I must say that I quite often hear men making remarks about a woman's physical appearance whilst in a professional context, is that sexist, or is it being politically correct to think it is? I'm not talking about 'Peter & Wolf, or even the boy who cried 'wolf', what I'm talking about is deflection and false accusations, which actually harden opinion against the motion that these hysterical lefties claim to be promoting. I present my first exhibit, Owen Jones, scatty and slightly mad in a mostly harmless way, but everyone who has either done better research or just has a better point is either a racist or homophobe. Are you sexist for discussing things without the Lady in question being aware? Well, if those discussions are taking place in a professional capacity then they are most certainly inappropriate, but you know that, and you also know that we've become far too sensitive about having our ideas challenged and our precious feelings hurt.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:16:43 GMT
I agree with your point, which is a Peter and the Wolf issue. But I must say that I quite often hear men making remarks about a woman's physical appearance whilst in a professional context, is that sexist, or is it being politically correct to think it is? I'm not talking about 'Peter & Wolf, or even the boy who cried 'wolf', what I'm talking about is deflection and false accusations, which actually harden opinion against the motion that these hysterical lefties claim to be promoting. I present my first exhibit, Owen Jones, scatty and slightly mad in a mostly harmless way, but everyone who has either done better research or just has a better point is either a racist or homophobe. Are you sexist for discussing things without the Lady in question being aware? Well, if those discussions are taking place in a professional capacity then they are most certainly inappropriate, but you know that, and you also know that we've become far too sensitive about having our ideas challenged and our precious feelings hurt. You quote somebody you disagree with politically. Better to choose people around you, it keeps it more real. What are, or have been, those experiences when it comes to these issues?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:35:34 GMT
I'm not talking about 'Peter & Wolf, or even the boy who cried 'wolf', what I'm talking about is deflection and false accusations, which actually harden opinion against the motion that these hysterical lefties claim to be promoting. I present my first exhibit, Owen Jones, scatty and slightly mad in a mostly harmless way, but everyone who has either done better research or just has a better point is either a racist or homophobe. Are you sexist for discussing things without the Lady in question being aware? Well, if those discussions are taking place in a professional capacity then they are most certainly inappropriate, but you know that, and you also know that we've become far too sensitive about having our ideas challenged and our precious feelings hurt. You quote somebody you disagree with politically. Better to choose people around you, it keeps it more real. What are, or have been, those experiences when it comes to these issues? I don't even understand the question. Why would I keep company with people I don't share common ground with? Or are you saying that what I'm seeing is just some celebrity game that doesn't exist in real life? If so, you've just defeated your own argument, haven't you?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:54:50 GMT
You quote somebody you disagree with politically. Better to choose people around you, it keeps it more real. What are, or have been, those experiences when it comes to these issues? I don't even understand the question. Why would I keep company with people I don't share common ground with? Or are you saying that what I'm seeing is just some celebrity game that doesn't exist in real life? If so, you've just defeated your own argument, haven't you? No, its not complicated. I am asking what your personal experiences have been.
|
|
|
Post by alloutofgas on Aug 20, 2017 18:32:16 GMT
What a load of PC horse sh*t How I wish you could have been there and seen the tears of anger in the Indian blokes eyes, when the Lino was getting the racist abuse. Imagine him trying to explain that to his son who was with him. It may well be PC horse crap to you but it wasn't to him and his boy. It was horrible to witness & be around. I've never had a sheep mentality and it's made life difficult for me where I live. It would be so much easier for me to say nothing but you know the old saying that evil succeeds when good people do nothing. I'd rather be unpopular & have the occasional dig on social media that be that person who does nothing I can remember at Eastvile the abuse hurled at many players and was sickening. I just think these initiatives however well meaning just have the opposite effect. Just because an individual doesn't want to wear a 'Let's Kick Racism Out Of Football' badge, doesn't make that person a racist!
|
|
|
Post by alloutofgas on Aug 20, 2017 18:40:47 GMT
I am in on this topic. Don't think I am racist, nor a Marxist. Definitely not politically correct. But I do think that the people that shout racist abuse are ignorant and pathetic. Equally, and I mean equally, those that judge others by their skin colour, race or creed, are ignorant and pathetic. The former are a small minority, the latter a larger minority. Both evaluated equally Mostly agree, but I think we've moved on and there are maybe more people now desperate to find offense being caused than there are people actually causing it. It's certainly been a tactic of the left in any form of social debate since the 1980s. Debate not going so well? Just shout that the other person is racist. It even works in theological debates and moderators never pull people up on it, as if members of a religious group were, by default, a race. But this seems to be the world we live in. Pretty much happened to me on here the other day merely for having a different opinion.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 19:19:02 GMT
Mostly agree, but I think we've moved on and there are maybe more people now desperate to find offense being caused than there are people actually causing it. It's certainly been a tactic of the left in any form of social debate since the 1980s. Debate not going so well? Just shout that the other person is racist. It even works in theological debates and moderators never pull people up on it, as if members of a religious group were, by default, a race. But this seems to be the world we live in. I agree with your point, which is a Peter and the Wolf issue. But I must say that I quite often hear men making remarks about a woman's physical appearance whilst in a professional context, is that sexist, or is it being politically correct to think it is? got a picture of her ?, lets see if she dresses apropriately
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 19:22:16 GMT
I agree with your point, which is a Peter and the Wolf issue. But I must say that I quite often hear men making remarks about a woman's physical appearance whilst in a professional context, is that sexist, or is it being politically correct to think it is? got a picture of her ?, lets see if she dresses apropriatel I would, but she made me promise not to divulge her identity to boys, to quote "Les, if you bring this up please, keep the discussion to adult men and women" So sorry,no can do
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 19:32:08 GMT
I don't even understand the question. Why would I keep company with people I don't share common ground with? Or are you saying that what I'm seeing is just some celebrity game that doesn't exist in real life? If so, you've just defeated your own argument, haven't you? No, its not complicated. I am asking what your personal experiences have been. You two are simply the best at arguing without the rest of us knowing what about.
|
|