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Post by tanksfull on Jun 26, 2016 12:42:42 GMT
But unemployment is the lowest it has been for ages. The infrastructure issue is in the hands of OUR Government (nothing to do with the EU). We also have a minimum wage which the Government can change. Why is our membership of the EU getting the blame for any of that? We have all the answers within our own remit. If you don't want people to wash your car don't use them and there is then no job and less immigration. Don't get old and need carers and don't have reason to go to hospital. Unemployment figures are held artificially low, we all know that. As stated yesterday, growth is normally organic and infrastructure grows with it, that's not what's happened in recent years. Are they? Surely the details from independent departments and the ONS would produce accurate statistics. If not we can all give up right now.
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Post by manchestergas on Jun 26, 2016 12:43:19 GMT
bulbous regarding your Somali comment, that was always our decision, not the EU, we always had control on non-EU immigration levels. On EU immigration unless we improve productivity here (our problem not the EUs) immigration will either stay the same or if the economy declines fall. Not sure I fancy the economy declining. Anyway completely accept your point we have complete control of immigration now, or will do when we actually leave in a few years time, but will anything change? Personally I doubt it. www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending (and yes I am sorry this is the Guardian) Whats the point of leaving if nothing changes? im not and never have been against immigration, for me the hardest workers are the poles and philipinos ive met every day in our hospitals [ and abu top of them all from sierra leone], what i am against is whole areas being given over to people who have no intention of integrating, bulbous I completely accept you are not against immigration, but the problem you highlight, and I completely agree it is a problem, was not the fault of the EU, that immigration from non-EU migrants was under our control and always was. BREXIT will not change that.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 26, 2016 12:43:24 GMT
But unemployment is the lowest it has been for ages. The infrastructure issue is in the hands of OUR Government (nothing to do with the EU). We also have a minimum wage which the Government can change. Why is our membership of the EU getting the blame for any of that? We have all the answers within our own remit. If you don't want people to wash your car don't use them and there is then no job and less immigration. Don't get old and need carers and don't have reason to go to hospital. Exactly. It is OUR Government that did not use the proceeds of economic growth on the needs of society. (Ignoring the fact that there was very little real economic growth between 2010 and 2014), but that's another story. SUCCESSIVE Governments. We had significant GDP growth when the world had significant GDP growth. The Blair Government spent it. Every last penny. Cameron and Osborne inherited a mess and did their best. Cameron has gone and Osborne will follow. Corbyn will be gone in a couple of days.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:44:13 GMT
We allow more refugees in as you need a residence card as a refugee? There will be a significant need to change the assumption that a growth in the economy will automatically lead to a need for a growth in the workforce. Globalization through telecommunications and ICT will reduce the need for jobs in real terms. Analysts have cited that 40% of jobs will become obsolete in 20 years, quite why a country will want to keep increasing their workforce is bordering on irrational when looking at forecasts in the change in production. That's true to a point. But the same was said about the mechanisation of farming......and look what happened.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:44:56 GMT
Unemployment figures are held artificially low, we all know that. As stated yesterday, growth is normally organic and infrastructure grows with it, that's not what's happened in recent years. But do you accept the statistic that 93% of EU migrants are gainfully employed? I'm not demonising EU migrants in any way, I agree, we've all heard the conversation about the (add nationality here) that I know all work really hard, but it's those other ones, you know, the ones who come here and scrounge. But do you accept that we've had a chicken and egg situation where people have arrived and have flooded the existing infrastructure in some areas?
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 26, 2016 12:45:20 GMT
UK GDP growth over the last 10 years approx. 0.5%. Eurozone GDP growth over the last 10 years approx. 0.0%. Zero. Nothing. Diddly squat. Looks like productivity is more of an EU problem, not a UK problem. If UK wage inflation threatens pushing overall inflation above the BoE 2% target - then why not have temporary work visas to suppress that number? Temporary being the operative word. Output per hour worked is far higher in France than the UK, its that productivity that drives real wage growth, not protectionism and constraint of trade. They only work about 37 hours a week - that's why! :-)
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Post by manchestergas on Jun 26, 2016 12:47:08 GMT
UK GDP growth over the last 10 years approx. 0.5%. Eurozone GDP growth over the last 10 years approx. 0.0%. Zero. Nothing. Diddly squat. Looks like productivity is more of an EU problem, not a UK problem. If UK wage inflation threatens pushing overall inflation above the BoE 2% target - then why not have temporary work visas to suppress that number? Temporary being the operative word. Output per hour worked is far higher in France than the UK, its that productivity that drives real wage growth, not protectionism and constraint of trade. Oh Oldie and if someone says, while French GDP growth is low and they have high unemployment. Yes they do, but that is because they have inflexible labour market (their problem not the EUs!). We have a flexible labour market. Perfect world for the UK, high productivity growth, high real wage growth, and in the EU with less constraints on trade. Leaving the EU is not the problem, it is our lack of productivity growth.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 26, 2016 12:47:15 GMT
Now those arguments I have great sympathy with. However, how are Somalis and North Africans connected to the EU vote? They are here due to completely different reasons to EU immigration. That will not change as a result of voting to come out of the EU. We will still have 100% of refugees entering the country. its now our decision who comes in or doesnt come in, not brussels /strasbourg. true refugees are a different matter to the lot rioting/raping women in europe But it never was the decision of Brussels. We have Border Control without leaving the EU. We are not part of the Schengen Agreement. That is why there is a problem in Calais; they can't automatically come into the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:47:37 GMT
Output per hour worked is far higher in France than the UK, its that productivity that drives real wage growth, not protectionism and constraint of trade. They only work about 37 hours a week - that's why! :-) Exactly Epping, exactly. If you could produce three items in one hour in France and three in 1.5 hours in the UK who has the lower input cost and therefore greater Gross Profit?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:48:45 GMT
Output per hour worked is far higher in France than the UK, its that productivity that drives real wage growth, not protectionism and constraint of trade. Oh Oldie and if someone says, while French GDP growth is low and they have high unemployment. Yes they do, but that is because they have inflexible labour market (their problem not the EUs!). We have a flexible labour market. Perfect world for the UK, high productivity growth, high real wage growth, and in the EU with less constraints on trade. Leaving the EU is not the problem, it is our lack of productivity growth. I am with you, we are on the same page
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:50:00 GMT
its now our decision who comes in or doesnt come in, not brussels /strasbourg. true refugees are a different matter to the lot rioting/raping women in europe But it never was the decision of Brussels. We have Border Control without leaving the EU. We are not part of the Schengen Agreement. That is why there is a problem in Calais; they can't automatically come into the UK. Its amazing Tanksfull, why is your statement of fact so hard to understand for some? Incredible
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:52:31 GMT
Unemployment figures are held artificially low, we all know that. As stated yesterday, growth is normally organic and infrastructure grows with it, that's not what's happened in recent years. Are they? Surely the details from independent departments and the ONS would produce accurate statistics. If not we can all give up right now. Apply the same calculation formula as was used in, choose a year, shall we say 1990, and see what number you get. Time to give up.
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Post by manchestergas on Jun 26, 2016 12:54:05 GMT
Output per hour worked is far higher in France than the UK, its that productivity that drives real wage growth, not protectionism and constraint of trade. They only work about 37 hours a week - that's why! :-) Is that a problem? Maybe if all UK workers could work 37.5 hours a week, have more leisure time, more time with their families and frankly be less stressed that is something to aspire to. However, we would have to increase education, capital inputs, infrastructure etc, thats in our control not the EUs. Avoid the French inflexible labour markets, with the ins on sweet employment deals, and the out of poor contracts and bingo. Thats is all in our control, it is not the EUs fault.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 26, 2016 12:58:19 GMT
But it never was the decision of Brussels. We have Border Control without leaving the EU. We are not part of the Schengen Agreement. That is why there is a problem in Calais; they can't automatically come into the UK. Its amazing Tanksfull, why is your statement of fact so hard to understand for some? Incredible Because Boris and co. have alluded otherwise and Cameron and co. were frightened of being called racist. The same as they will spend the £350m per week 3x's over on top of spending it on the NHS; which Farage has already said was "a mistake". He is now saying that Britain was heading for recession in any case. Wouldn't it be nice if we could start over without politicians involved?
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 26, 2016 13:04:33 GMT
But do you accept the statistic that 93% of EU migrants are gainfully employed? I'm not demonising EU migrants in any way, I agree, we've all heard the conversation about the (add nationality here) that I know all work really hard, but it's those other ones, you know, the ones who come here and scrounge. But do you accept that we've had a chicken and egg situation where people have arrived and have flooded the existing infrastructure in some areas? That is one area where Cameron did get a positive result in his negotiations wit hthe EU. Of course it is but the answer is in the hands of our Government not the EU.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 13:06:47 GMT
its now our decision who comes in or doesnt come in, not brussels /strasbourg. true refugees are a different matter to the lot rioting/raping women in europe But it never was the decision of Brussels. We have Border Control without leaving the EU. We are not part of the Schengen Agreement. That is why there is a problem in Calais; they can't automatically come into the UK. we are just lucky we arent on the mainland,
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 13:10:18 GMT
Can't wait for the start of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 13:10:54 GMT
I'm not demonising EU migrants in any way, I agree, we've all heard the conversation about the (add nationality here) that I know all work really hard, but it's those other ones, you know, the ones who come here and scrounge. But do you accept that we've had a chicken and egg situation where people have arrived and have flooded the existing infrastructure in some areas? That is one area where Cameron did get a positive result in his negotiations wit hthe EU. Of course it is but the answer is in the hands of our Government not the EU. I have no idea what you are saying? When should the infrastructure needed to meet the needs of these new migrants have been built please?
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Post by manchestergas on Jun 26, 2016 13:11:03 GMT
Its amazing Tanksfull, why is your statement of fact so hard to understand for some? Incredible Because Boris and co. have alluded otherwise and Cameron and co. were frightened of being called racist. The same as they will spend the £350m per week 3x's over on top of spending it on the NHS; which Farage has already said was "a mistake". He is now saying that Britain was heading for recession in any case. Wouldn't it be nice if we could start over without politicians involved? People hopefully won't believe Farage about the recession. But who knows.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 26, 2016 13:12:10 GMT
But it never was the decision of Brussels. We have Border Control without leaving the EU. We are not part of the Schengen Agreement. That is why there is a problem in Calais; they can't automatically come into the UK. we are just lucky we arent on the mainland, Agreed.
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