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Post by DudeLebowski on Jun 26, 2016 12:08:24 GMT
Ollie Clarke's screamer away at Newport.
Majestic.
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Post by manchestergas on Jun 26, 2016 12:10:03 GMT
How the world views us:
Sums it quite well I thought.
Also although taken from the Guardian (sorry) the below from Kipling sums up Johnson and Gove for me:
I could not dig; I dared not rob: Therefore I lied to please the mob. Now all my lies are proved untrue And I must face the men I slew. What tale shall serve me here among Mine angry and defrauded young?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,123
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 26, 2016 12:10:18 GMT
Well, we've just cut off our nose to spite our face, so why not them? It would be less of an issue for them: the EU collectively is a much bigger market for us than the UK is for any individual EU state. As for them starting a trade war, if we're going to compete against rather than with them, who's doing that? It's odd to pick a fight and get indignant at the thought that others won't protect their interest at least to the point of neutralising the effect. Ultimately if we don't get equivalent access to the single market as we do now in Europe then that shortfall in trade, if there is one, will have to be made up elsewhere. As people are stating that will have to be with the Far East, China etc, Russia and all the States preciously defined as BRICS. Given the political situations in those countries, good luck with agreeing a legally enforceable legal framework with them. But back to controlled immigration. Brexiteers have promised to reduce the overall level of immigration. Lets say, for the sake of argument net immigration target is set at 100,000, and visas will only be issued to that number.. What happens if there is a labour shortfall because the labour market demanded 200,000? ?? Supply and demand. Wages go up.
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Post by manchestergas on Jun 26, 2016 12:14:12 GMT
Unless productivity goes up with those wages epping, jobs are lost and prices go up.
Productivity is our problem not the EUs.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 26, 2016 12:14:30 GMT
Ultimately if we don't get equivalent access to the single market as we do now in Europe then that shortfall in trade, if there is one, will have to be made up elsewhere. As people are stating that will have to be with the Far East, China etc, Russia and all the States preciously defined as BRICS. Given the political situations in those countries, good luck with agreeing a legally enforceable legal framework with them. But back to controlled immigration. Brexiteers have promised to reduce the overall level of immigration. Lets say, for the sake of argument net immigration target is set at 100,000, and visas will only be issued to that number.. What happens if there is a labour shortfall because the labour market demanded 200,000? ?? You know as well as everybody else does that setting a figure to migration in that way was just soundbite politics. I don't think that anybody, apart from a small number of right wing crackpots, care how many Poles, Romanians, Africans, Americans, or even Faroe Islanders come here, as long as it's in line with demand and growth in the economy, their skills are market appropriate and the infrastructure is in place to meet the needs of the entire population. But unemployment is the lowest it has been for ages. The infrastructure issue is in the hands of OUR Government (nothing to do with the EU). We also have a minimum wage which the Government can change. Why is our membership of the EU getting the blame for any of that? We have all the answers within our own remit. If you don't want people to wash your car don't use them and there is then no job and less immigration. Don't get old and need carers and don't have reason to go to hospital.
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Post by tanksfull on Jun 26, 2016 12:18:23 GMT
Ultimately if we don't get equivalent access to the single market as we do now in Europe then that shortfall in trade, if there is one, will have to be made up elsewhere. As people are stating that will have to be with the Far East, China etc, Russia and all the States preciously defined as BRICS. Given the political situations in those countries, good luck with agreeing a legally enforceable legal framework with them. But back to controlled immigration. Brexiteers have promised to reduce the overall level of immigration. Lets say, for the sake of argument net immigration target is set at 100,000, and visas will only be issued to that number.. What happens if there is a labour shortfall because the labour market demanded 200,000? ?? Supply and demand. Wages go up. And so does the cost of the NHS and care in the community for the elderly. So you will pay for it through higher tax.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:21:58 GMT
ive not finished the whole thread yet so i may be jumping the gun youve touched on a subject there, immigration is good/neccessary , BUT lets not beat around the bush whole areas of Bristol have been given our to somalians/north africans , in what way can that be fair ?. the housing list has been leapfrogged in one go, my son has to pay 850 a month because he has no chance of accomadation. secondly and no-one has mentioned it. they bring their desire for sharia law or their way of life , like it or not that played a big part in this vote as for the last 10 years or so even talking about immigration brought the hounds out Now those arguments I have great sympathy with. However, how are Somalis and North Africans connected to the EU vote? They are here due to completely different reasons to EU immigration. That will not change as a result of voting to come out of the EU. We will still have 100% of refugees entering the country. its now our decision who comes in or doesnt come in, not brussels /strasbourg. true refugees are a different matter to the lot rioting/raping women in europe
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:23:55 GMT
Can we still enter Eurovision? whats the point. rather like the eu we pay loads and get shafted [joke btw]
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Post by manchestergas on Jun 26, 2016 12:28:19 GMT
bulbous regarding your Somali comment, that was always our decision, not the EU, we always had control on non-EU immigration levels. On EU immigration unless we improve productivity here (our problem not the EUs) immigration will either stay the same or if the economy declines fall. Not sure I fancy the economy declining. Anyway completely accept your point we have complete control of immigration now, or will do when we actually leave in a few years time, but will anything change? Personally I doubt it. www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending (and yes I am sorry this is the Guardian) Whats the point of leaving if nothing changes?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:30:01 GMT
You know as well as everybody else does that setting a figure to migration in that way was just soundbite politics. I don't think that anybody, apart from a small number of right wing crackpots, care how many Poles, Romanians, Africans, Americans, or even Faroe Islanders come here, as long as it's in line with demand and growth in the economy, their skills are market appropriate and the infrastructure is in place to meet the needs of the entire population. But unemployment is the lowest it has been for ages. The infrastructure issue is in the hands of OUR Government (nothing to do with the EU). We also have a minimum wage which the Government can change. Why is our membership of the EU getting the blame for any of that? We have all the answers within our own remit. If you don't want people to wash your car don't use them and there is then no job and less immigration. Don't get old and need carers and don't have reason to go to hospital. Unemployment figures are held artificially low, we all know that. As stated yesterday, growth is normally organic and infrastructure grows with it, that's not what's happened in recent years.
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Post by scotsgas on Jun 26, 2016 12:30:06 GMT
My concern from a Rovers point of view is that whoever is lined up as potential investors in the new stadium are not seriously affected by Brexit and could change their mind. As we don't know who they are we will just have to wait and see. Apologies to be putting a dampener on proceedings.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,123
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 26, 2016 12:30:28 GMT
Unless productivity goes up with those wages epping, jobs are lost and prices go up. Productivity is our problem not the EUs. UK GDP growth over the last 10 years approx. 0.5%. Eurozone GDP growth over the last 10 years approx. 0.0%. Zero. Nothing. Diddly squat. Looks like productivity is more of an EU problem, not a UK problem. If UK wage inflation threatens pushing overall inflation above the BoE 2% target - then why not have temporary work visas to suppress that number? Temporary being the operative word.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:32:59 GMT
You know as well as everybody else does that setting a figure to migration in that way was just soundbite politics. I don't think that anybody, apart from a small number of right wing crackpots, care how many Poles, Romanians, Africans, Americans, or even Faroe Islanders come here, as long as it's in line with demand and growth in the economy, their skills are market appropriate and the infrastructure is in place to meet the needs of the entire population. But unemployment is the lowest it has been for ages. The infrastructure issue is in the hands of OUR Government (nothing to do with the EU). We also have a minimum wage which the Government can change. Why is our membership of the EU getting the blame for any of that? We have all the answers within our own remit. If you don't want people to wash your car don't use them and there is then no job and less immigration. Don't get old and need carers and don't have reason to go to hospital. Exactly. It is OUR Government that did not use the proceeds of economic growth on the needs of society. (Ignoring the fact that there was very little real economic growth between 2010 and 2014), but that's another story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:34:58 GMT
But unemployment is the lowest it has been for ages. The infrastructure issue is in the hands of OUR Government (nothing to do with the EU). We also have a minimum wage which the Government can change. Why is our membership of the EU getting the blame for any of that? We have all the answers within our own remit. If you don't want people to wash your car don't use them and there is then no job and less immigration. Don't get old and need carers and don't have reason to go to hospital. Unemployment figures are held artificially low, we all know that. As stated yesterday, growth is normally organic and infrastructure grows with it, that's not what's happened in recent years. But do you accept the statistic that 93% of EU migrants are gainfully employed?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:36:28 GMT
Can we still enter Eurovision? whats the point. rather like the eu we pay loads and get shafted [joke btw] Hang in there mate, we may get to see Cheryl Baker's knickers again.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:39:00 GMT
bulbous regarding your Somali comment, that was always our decision, not the EU, we always had control on non-EU immigration levels. On EU immigration unless we improve productivity here (our problem not the EUs) immigration will either stay the same or if the economy declines fall. Not sure I fancy the economy declining. Anyway completely accept your point we have complete control of immigration now, or will do when we actually leave in a few years time, but will anything change? Personally I doubt it. www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending (and yes I am sorry this is the Guardian) Whats the point of leaving if nothing changes? im not and never have been against immigration, for me the hardest workers are the poles and philipinos ive met every day in our hospitals [ and abu top of them all from sierra leone], what i am against is whole areas being given over to people who have no intention of integrating,
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Post by manchestergas on Jun 26, 2016 12:40:04 GMT
Productivity growth in the UK is a UK problem. We have had the worst productivity growth of any major developed economy. You quote GDP figures not productivity growth, completely different things. French and German workers are much more productive than us. www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/18/uk-productivity-gap-widens-to-worst-level-since-records-beganWhy has the UK economy grown over the last few years, increases in labour inputs (immigration) into the economy. This also depresses wage growth I agree which has been very low. So unless we improve productivity growth, I repeat our problem not the EU, if we decrease labour inputs we decrease GDP growth, we get poorer. So now is a time for the Uk government to act and improve productivity growth, but they could always have done that it was not a EU problem.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:40:36 GMT
whats the point. rather like the eu we pay loads and get shafted [joke btw] Hang in there mate, we may get to see Cheryl Baker's knickers again. steady !!
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Post by chelt_gas on Jun 26, 2016 12:41:27 GMT
Ultimately if we don't get equivalent access to the single market as we do now in Europe then that shortfall in trade, if there is one, will have to be made up elsewhere. As people are stating that will have to be with the Far East, China etc, Russia and all the States preciously defined as BRICS. Given the political situations in those countries, good luck with agreeing a legally enforceable legal framework with them. But back to controlled immigration. Brexiteers have promised to reduce the overall level of immigration. Lets say, for the sake of argument net immigration target is set at 100,000, and visas will only be issued to that number.. What happens if there is a labour shortfall because the labour market demanded 200,000? ?? We allow more refugees in as you need a residence card as a refugee? There will be a significant need to change the assumption that a growth in the economy will automatically lead to a need for a growth in the workforce. Globalization through telecommunications and ICT will reduce the need for jobs in real terms. Analysts have cited that 40% of jobs will become obsolete in 20 years, quite why a country will want to keep increasing their workforce is bordering on irrational when looking at forecasts in the change in production.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 12:41:53 GMT
Unless productivity goes up with those wages epping, jobs are lost and prices go up. Productivity is our problem not the EUs. UK GDP growth over the last 10 years approx. 0.5%. Eurozone GDP growth over the last 10 years approx. 0.0%. Zero. Nothing. Diddly squat. Looks like productivity is more of an EU problem, not a UK problem. If UK wage inflation threatens pushing overall inflation above the BoE 2% target - then why not have temporary work visas to suppress that number? Temporary being the operative word. Output per hour worked is far higher in France than the UK, its that productivity that drives real wage growth, not protectionism and constraint of trade.
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