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Post by bluecamel on May 26, 2016 12:05:52 GMT
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Post by lifesagas on May 26, 2016 12:18:48 GMT
Part of me thinks that the very reasons Warnock gives for not going are the very challenges that might attract Clarke to the job.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 26, 2016 13:20:54 GMT
A great response to the Yorkshire Evening Post article from a poster named AC1972..... Dear Darrell Clarke, Just make sure you get a copy of the 'Watermelon Handbook'. Then all should be well! Ahem! Here is the abridged form. 1. You shall unreservedly love, defend and support Uncle Messi. He is infallible…even when he's wrong. 2. Don't worry about pressure to get the right players; good old Uncle Messi will do that for you. It's only your fault when it goes wrong. 3. If you are a family man that's lovely, because you can have Christmas together. 4. Make sure you buy some nice flower seeds that plant say mid-October for when you start on gardening leave. 5. Don't worry about tactics or formation; again Uncle Messi is there to 'help' 6. One of life's secrets is balance. Don't be too bad or too good…Uncle Messi doesn't like either. He wants success, but it's all about him and you can't take 'da love of da Lids fans' away from him. 7. Don't worry about players suddenly appearing who you have never heard of. Serial B & C are veritable goldmines! A couple of training sessions & you will know all about them. Don't worry about paperwork; the club seems to have its own special way of dealing with eg transfer payments and (multiple) agents slithering towards UM's office. Oh yes, don't EVER mention things like Tax, VAT, boats, ER & TA, pies, forward planning etc. 8. Don't worry when UM doesn't answer your calls immediately. He brings a new meaning to 'cell' phone! Leave a message. He is a very important man, so has lots of lawyer meetings. Possibly he could be away some time. 9. As soon as he starts to insult you, dust down the old suit for job interviews. You will get a visit from someone else – UM is a sensitive soul and doesn't like goodbyes – to say that you are stuffed. Probably means that there is a presser that afternoon and they need your locker cleared. 10. Anyway, welcome to Planet LUFC and enjoy your stay. You say you've never been on a rollercoaster…well here comes the ride of your life! It will be neither long nor boring. Any questions…always refer again to point 1. Superb!
I do think certain things are being overestimated here. Firstly, it's not at all certain that Clarke feels particularly secure at Rovers. After all we have had a takeover and very few of his players are currently signed up. A 3 year contract is a statement by Rovers but it's a bit late in the offing - our owners could have sent a strong statement by backing him with a new contract the moment they came in. There might be very good reasons not to do that but Clarke might be thinking that staying Rovers may not be the rock solid bet that many are assuming it is. Secondly, money vs good long-term career choices. I assume Cellino is offering him absolutely boatloads of it so even if it doesn't work out at all and he gets a pay off it'll set him up nicely. Again, this is a guy who has spent his career as a jobbing footballer and a manager at the lower level - there's probably offers that he would see as not being able to turn down that other manager who had more successful playing career could turn down. That may also play a role in his decision.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 13:39:53 GMT
I do think certain things are being overestimated here. Firstly, it's not at all certain that Clarke feels particularly secure at Rovers. After all we have had a takeover and very few of his players are currently signed up. A 3 year contract is a statement by Rovers but it's a bit late in the offing - our owners could have sent a strong statement by backing him with a new contract the moment they came in. There might be very good reasons not to do that but Clarke might be thinking that staying Rovers may not be the rock solid bet that many are assuming it is. Secondly, money vs good long-term career choices. I assume Cellino is offering him absolutely boatloads of it so even if it doesn't work out at all and he gets a pay off it'll set him up nicely. Again, this is a guy who has spent his career as a jobbing footballer and a manager at the lower level - there's probably offers that he would see as not being able to turn down that other manager who had more successful playing career could turn down. That may also play a role in his decision.
Um, I agree that degrees of certainty are unknown, but would raise you that there's something to be said for going out of your comfort zone and rolling the dice, and maybe that appeals. I worry about your 'late in the day' point, though. When they came in, they had a manager on a one-year rolling contract, who they hadn't had any first hand experience of working with, lots of other stuff to sort out, and no reason to prioritise immediately improving the manager's terms of employment. I think it's a reasonable vote of confidence that they waited until the season was over, and then talked about giving him improved terms (probably better terms for being in League 1 than they would have offered in February): it's not as if his existing contract was about to expire and they showed no interest in preventing that. Ultimately, if he wants to go - and I'm guessing the draw would primarily be a bigger stage and the thrill of trying to defy the odds, followed by cash - then he has to be allowed to scratch that itch rather than bribed or stroked into staying. The big decider will be deep in DC's psyche, and it's his call. It would be a shame for us, but not the end of the world.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 26, 2016 14:23:02 GMT
I do think certain things are being overestimated here. Firstly, it's not at all certain that Clarke feels particularly secure at Rovers. After all we have had a takeover and very few of his players are currently signed up. A 3 year contract is a statement by Rovers but it's a bit late in the offing - our owners could have sent a strong statement by backing him with a new contract the moment they came in. There might be very good reasons not to do that but Clarke might be thinking that staying Rovers may not be the rock solid bet that many are assuming it is. Secondly, money vs good long-term career choices. I assume Cellino is offering him absolutely boatloads of it so even if it doesn't work out at all and he gets a pay off it'll set him up nicely. Again, this is a guy who has spent his career as a jobbing footballer and a manager at the lower level - there's probably offers that he would see as not being able to turn down that other manager who had more successful playing career could turn down. That may also play a role in his decision.
Um, I agree that degrees of certainty are unknown, but would raise you that there's something to be said for going out of your comfort zone and rolling the dice, and maybe that appeals. I worry about your 'late in the day' point, though. When they came in, they had a manager on a one-year rolling contract, who they hadn't had any first hand experience of working with, lots of other stuff to sort out, and no reason to prioritise immediately improving the manager's terms of employment. I think it's a reasonable vote of confidence that they waited until the season was over, and then talked about giving him improved terms (probably better terms for being in League 1 than they would have offered in February): it's not as if his existing contract was about to expire and they showed no interest in preventing that. Ultimately, if he wants to go - and I'm guessing the draw would primarily be a bigger stage and the thrill of trying to defy the odds, followed by cash - then he has to be allowed to scratch that itch rather than bribed or stroked into staying. The big decider will be deep in DC's psyche, and it's his call. It would be a shame for us, but not the end of the world. Fine - I don't deny that it makes sense. I just think that from DC's point of view he wouldn't have been certain the new owners would want him in the long-term and I'm not sure much has necessarily been done that would have 100% convinced of this. I thought some of his comments in interviews about the future near the end of the season were sufficiently ambiguous to give me the impression he was keeping his options open somewhat. I just would not be surprised if he wasn't feeling 100% comfortable at Rovers right now.
There's getting outside of your comfort zone and then there's optionally walking into a madhouse! I think DC knows what he's doing and if he takes it then it will be with eyes open. Like I said before I think people underestimated the pull of the position particularly if you had not had any taste of the big time in football before. What is the point of doing this for a living if you aren't going to have a crack at this sort of job (poisoned chalice though)? It's not like he's massive household name - he may be thinking this is the only chance he'll get to make that jump. Say, he has them competitive at Christmas - then Cellino cans him for something ridiculous or because he liked the look of another manager out there. The publicity would still be decent. Suddenly, he's become known as a capable manager at that level and maybe a non-basket case club gives him a shot. The downside is what? Failure , and being a very sort after manager for pretty much any League 2 or Conference club going which is pretty much where he's at right now. It's a gamble, sure, but in his case it would be a calculated one rather than a shot in the dark.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 14:38:57 GMT
Um, I agree that degrees of certainty are unknown, but would raise you that there's something to be said for going out of your comfort zone and rolling the dice, and maybe that appeals. I worry about your 'late in the day' point, though. When they came in, they had a manager on a one-year rolling contract, who they hadn't had any first hand experience of working with, lots of other stuff to sort out, and no reason to prioritise immediately improving the manager's terms of employment. I think it's a reasonable vote of confidence that they waited until the season was over, and then talked about giving him improved terms (probably better terms for being in League 1 than they would have offered in February): it's not as if his existing contract was about to expire and they showed no interest in preventing that. Ultimately, if he wants to go - and I'm guessing the draw would primarily be a bigger stage and the thrill of trying to defy the odds, followed by cash - then he has to be allowed to scratch that itch rather than bribed or stroked into staying. The big decider will be deep in DC's psyche, and it's his call. It would be a shame for us, but not the end of the world. Fine - I don't deny that it makes sense. I just think that from DC's point of view he wouldn't have been certain the new owners would want him in the long-term and I'm not sure much has necessarily been done that would have 100% convinced of this. I thought some of his comments in interviews about the future near the end of the season were sufficiently ambiguous to give me the impression he was keeping his options open somewhat. I just would not be surprised if he wasn't feeling 100% comfortable at Rovers right now.
There's getting outside of your comfort zone and then there's optionally walking into a madhouse! I think DC knows what he's doing and if he takes it then it will be with eyes open. Like I said before I think people underestimated the pull of the position particularly if you had not had any taste of the big time in football before. What is the point of doing this for a living if you aren't going to have a crack at this sort of job (poisoned chalice though)? It's not like he's massive household name - he may be thinking this is the only chance he'll get to make that jump. Say, he has them competitive at Christmas - then Cellino cans him for something ridiculous or because he liked the look of another manager out there. The publicity would still be decent. Suddenly, he's become known as a capable manager at that level and maybe a non-basket case club gives him a shot. The downside is what? Failure , and being a very sort after manager for pretty much any League 2 or Conference club going which is pretty much where he's at right now. It's a gamble, sure, but in his case it would be a calculated one rather than a shot in the dark.
I think we agree. All the reasoning you give - including that the worst that can happen is that he's managing somewhere else in L1 or L2 by February, might do it for him. If he is of that mindset, then staying put might seem like a come down. In that case, there's nothing much we can do, other than thank him, wish him all the best, and kick on sooner than expected in structuring and recruiting for the new model football club. I also agree with 'madhouse', and might sneak a thought that if Leeds are interested, give it a bit longer and someone far more balanced at that level might come calling. He strikes me as quite a sensitive / emotional chap, prone to getting upset or the hump or ecstatic. I can't think he'd be happy with Cellino. Still, all amateur psychology: we'll have to wait and see but I think, if he goes, we shouldn't think the club should (or could) have done more to keep him.
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Post by Feeling The Blues on May 26, 2016 17:02:46 GMT
Um, I agree that degrees of certainty are unknown, but would raise you that there's something to be said for going out of your comfort zone and rolling the dice, and maybe that appeals. I worry about your 'late in the day' point, though. When they came in, they had a manager on a one-year rolling contract, who they hadn't had any first hand experience of working with, lots of other stuff to sort out, and no reason to prioritise immediately improving the manager's terms of employment. I think it's a reasonable vote of confidence that they waited until the season was over, and then talked about giving him improved terms (probably better terms for being in League 1 than they would have offered in February): it's not as if his existing contract was about to expire and they showed no interest in preventing that. Ultimately, if he wants to go - and I'm guessing the draw would primarily be a bigger stage and the thrill of trying to defy the odds, followed by cash - then he has to be allowed to scratch that itch rather than bribed or stroked into staying. The big decider will be deep in DC's psyche, and it's his call. It would be a shame for us, but not the end of the world. Fine - I don't deny that it makes sense. I just think that from DC's point of view he wouldn't have been certain the new owners would want him in the long-term and I'm not sure much has necessarily been done that would have 100% convinced of this. I thought some of his comments in interviews about the future near the end of the season were sufficiently ambiguous to give me the impression he was keeping his options open somewhat. I just would not be surprised if he wasn't feeling 100% comfortable at Rovers right now.
There's getting outside of your comfort zone and then there's optionally walking into a madhouse! I think DC knows what he's doing and if he takes it then it will be with eyes open. Like I said before I think people underestimated the pull of the position particularly if you had not had any taste of the big time in football before. What is the point of doing this for a living if you aren't going to have a crack at this sort of job (poisoned chalice though)? It's not like he's massive household name - he may be thinking this is the only chance he'll get to make that jump. Say, he has them competitive at Christmas - then Cellino cans him for something ridiculous or because he liked the look of another manager out there. The publicity would still be decent. Suddenly, he's become known as a capable manager at that level and maybe a non-basket case club gives him a shot. The downside is what? Failure , and being a very sort after manager for pretty much any League 2 or Conference club going which is pretty much where he's at right now. It's a gamble, sure, but in his case it would be a calculated one rather than a shot in the dark.
There is a high chance he wouldn't get until Christmas if he starts the season like he started the last 2 here.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 26, 2016 19:36:52 GMT
Just when I think everything was rosy and that we were united as a fanbase, boom ! , the Jim Chappell crap, Higgs name and Mr Hamer responds. DC looks like he may go to Leeds but we don't know. It seems that we are never far from controversy and argument and it saddens me greatly. I would have hoped DC would have immediately turned down Leeds, that he hasn't makes me feel nervous too. Have the new chair and president spoken to D.C and set their stall out, told him this (X) is what we have for players and this (X) is what we want to achieved etc ? I don't know and it seems neither does DC, at least I am making a guess that this could be the case. I am disappointed that DC hasn't rebuffed Leeds, I think that says a lot and now we may have a manager who is holed under the waterline if it goes tats up. It's all ifs and maybes and no one seems to be able to put pay to the rumour mill. Just when I felt comfortable and genuinely happy.
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bs14gas
Robin. S. Layer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 462
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Post by bs14gas on May 26, 2016 19:46:15 GMT
Just when I think everything was rosy and that we were united as a fanbase, boom ! , the Jim Chappell crap, Higgs name and Mr Hamer responds. DC looks like he may go to Leeds but we don't know. It seems that we are never far from controversy and argument and it saddens me greatly. I would have hoped DC would have immediately turned down Leeds, that he hasn't makes me feel nervous too. Have the new chair and president spoken to D.C and set their stall out, told him this (X) is what we have for players and this (X) is what we want to achieved etc ? I don't know and it seems neither does DC, at least I am making a guess that this could be the case. I am disappointed that DC hasn't rebuffed Leeds, I think that says a lot and now we may have a manager who is holed under the waterline if it goes tats up. It's all ifs and maybes and no one seems to be able to put pay to the rumour mill. Just when I felt comfortable and genuinely happy. Always enjoy the moment, you never know when it will change, but be sure it will.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 26, 2016 19:50:13 GMT
Just when I think everything was rosy and that we were united as a fanbase, boom ! , the Jim Chappell crap, Higgs name and Mr Hamer responds. DC looks like he may go to Leeds but we don't know. It seems that we are never far from controversy and argument and it saddens me greatly. I would have hoped DC would have immediately turned down Leeds, that he hasn't makes me feel nervous too. Have the new chair and president spoken to D.C and set their stall out, told him this (X) is what we have for players and this (X) is what we want to achieved etc ? I don't know and it seems neither does DC, at least I am making a guess that this could be the case. I am disappointed that DC hasn't rebuffed Leeds, I think that says a lot and now we may have a manager who is holed under the waterline if it goes tats up. It's all ifs and maybes and no one seems to be able to put pay to the rumour mill. Just when I felt comfortable and genuinely happy. Always enjoy the moment, you never know when it will change, but be sure it will. I fully enjoyed that moment & hope we move on and have more. The truism here is no one person is bigger than the club but I am left disappointed that DC hasn't turned this down. Ah well, there are other and good managers around and it's not like we don't know how the managing roundabout goes eh. I may need to leave social media alone for a few days.
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Post by badbloodash on May 26, 2016 19:52:00 GMT
Just when I think everything was rosy and that we were united as a fanbase, boom ! , the Jim Chappell crap, Higgs name and Mr Hamer responds. DC looks like he may go to Leeds but we don't know. It seems that we are never far from controversy and argument and it saddens me greatly. I would have hoped DC would have immediately turned down Leeds, that he hasn't makes me feel nervous too. Have the new chair and president spoken to D.C and set their stall out, told him this (X) is what we have for players and this (X) is what we want to achieved etc ? I don't know and it seems neither does DC, at least I am making a guess that this could be the case. I am disappointed that DC hasn't rebuffed Leeds, I think that says a lot and now we may have a manager who is holed under the waterline if it goes tats up. It's all ifs and maybes and no one seems to be able to put pay to the rumour mill. Just when I felt comfortable and genuinely happy. We are the gas it's never going to be plain sailing but it's still better having someone trying to poach our successful manager than everyone calling for a failing ones head anyone who thought we were going to sail through the leagues don't know what this clubs all about we may get there in the end but not without a few ups and downs . If Clark goes we will all miss him for what he has done him and waq have given us our rovers back but we will get up and fight on that's what the gas do and we do it it f**king better than anyone else
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on May 26, 2016 19:54:39 GMT
Just when I think everything was rosy and that we were united as a fanbase, boom ! , the Jim Chappell crap, Higgs name and Mr Hamer responds. DC looks like he may go to Leeds but we don't know. It seems that we are never far from controversy and argument and it saddens me greatly. I would have hoped DC would have immediately turned down Leeds, that he hasn't makes me feel nervous too. Have the new chair and president spoken to D.C and set their stall out, told him this (X) is what we have for players and this (X) is what we want to achieved etc ? I don't know and it seems neither does DC, at least I am making a guess that this could be the case. I am disappointed that DC hasn't rebuffed Leeds, I think that says a lot and now we may have a manager who is holed under the waterline if it goes tats up. It's all ifs and maybes and no one seems to be able to put pay to the rumour mill. Just when I felt comfortable and genuinely happy. I empathise, KP, but to some in the management, playing and club staff, it's just a job. Emotional attachment to any particular club that evokes loyalty is rare....unfortunately. That's the way I see it. If DC feels for whatever reason his future lies away from the Mem, and there is nothing we can do to influence it at any level, then I would have to thank him for his efforts and wish him all the best. I wouldn't stand in his way. Nor did I with Stewie. Nor did I with Lambo. Nor did I with Smithy. ....and why I have utmost respect for Lee Brown.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on May 26, 2016 19:55:53 GMT
Just when I think everything was rosy and that we were united as a fanbase, boom ! , the Jim Chappell crap, Higgs name and Mr Hamer responds. DC looks like he may go to Leeds but we don't know. It seems that we are never far from controversy and argument and it saddens me greatly. I would have hoped DC would have immediately turned down Leeds, that he hasn't makes me feel nervous too. Have the new chair and president spoken to D.C and set their stall out, told him this (X) is what we have for players and this (X) is what we want to achieved etc ? I don't know and it seems neither does DC, at least I am making a guess that this could be the case. I am disappointed that DC hasn't rebuffed Leeds, I think that says a lot and now we may have a manager who is holed under the waterline if it goes tats up. It's all ifs and maybes and no one seems to be able to put pay to the rumour mill. Just when I felt comfortable and genuinely happy. We are the gas it's never going to be plain sailing but it's still better having someone trying to poach our successful manager than everyone calling for a failing ones head anyone who thought we were going to sail through the leagues don't know what this clubs all about we may get there in the end but not without a few ups and downs . If Clark goes we will all miss him for what he has done him and waq have given us our rovers back but we will get up and fight on that's what the gas do and we do it it fing better than anyone else Thanks for that Dave. I needed that mate. All this nonsense with JC and the SC now this has me going low. I really appreciate that pep talk
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Post by gasheadpirate on May 26, 2016 20:08:17 GMT
Always enjoy the moment, you never know when it will change, but be sure it will. I fully enjoyed that moment & hope we move on and have more. The truism here is no one person is bigger than the club but I am left disappointed that DC hasn't turned this down. Ah well, there are other and good managers around and it's not like we don't know how the managing roundabout goes eh. I may need to leave social media alone for a few days. Has DC had a chance to turn Leeds down? If the two clubs have not reached any agreement then DC is not in a position to turn anything down. However, it would be nice of he just said to SH I am happy to stay for three years and tell LUFC thanks but no thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 20:16:30 GMT
He's right. Gasheads are hoping to retain entertaining winning personnel and formula. This hasn't been the case for ages. Previously Gasheads were hoping to be rid of awful losing personnel and formula! Everything's still great KP.
As for Jim's Jottings that seems to me to be the (possibly final) words of a Chairman of BRSC inexplicably wedded to the old awful losing regime. I feel a bit sorry for Mr Chappell, but he and his organisation need to catch up with the positive change at BRFC, and either evolve in harmony, or wither away. That's up to them. But this doesn't mean gasheads are disunited. Just that change is loose.
Edit: Back on topic, the football season for us is over (having finished in delight). Now is the close season where all you have to get excited about is signings. I accept that nobody's bigger than the club, and that we could recruit a replacement manager to the job specification DC has set as a precedent. But, for me, the thing to get excited about right now is signing DC. Pay him what he's worth, give him the control he needs, and allow him the time to evolve this team for success in the third division. Come on Rovers. Sign him up!
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Post by stroudblue on May 26, 2016 21:43:48 GMT
The Roller coaster life of a Rovers fan. Never dull.
I remember the Ian Stevens and Bobby Campbell saga all good stuff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 22:17:44 GMT
Another thought to share. Anything that puts DC off leaving for Leeds is fine by me. But working under a pillock may not put him off: DC worked for one Nicholas Higgs. If I knew him I'd be selling Rovers as the club with which he can have an ascendent career, build something momentus, and lead something historic. He could be something at BRFC he could never become at LUFC. Sign him up!
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Post by optogas1976 on May 26, 2016 22:32:34 GMT
Think that until DC gets interviewed this isn't going away, DC clearly loves a challenge and thrives on adversity, Leeds is definitely that and then some! Just see DC as a guy who won't judge someone until he has shaken their hand, looked them in the eye and heard what they have to say. I have confidence that unless DC gets the usual complete control of a traditional English manager he will say no.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 23:45:07 GMT
Another thought to share. Anything that puts DC off leaving for Leeds is fine by me. But working under a pillock may not put him off: DC worked for one Nicholas Higgs. If I knew him I'd be selling Rovers as the club with which he can have an ascendent career, build something momentus, and lead something historic. He could be something at BRFC he could never become at LUFC. Sign him up! whoever gets leeds going has the sky as their limit under MC i cant see it though
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irishrover
Global Moderator
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Post by irishrover on May 27, 2016 0:47:02 GMT
Just when I think everything was rosy and that we were united as a fanbase, boom ! , the Jim Chappell crap, Higgs name and Mr Hamer responds. DC looks like he may go to Leeds but we don't know. It seems that we are never far from controversy and argument and it saddens me greatly. I would have hoped DC would have immediately turned down Leeds, that he hasn't makes me feel nervous too. Have the new chair and president spoken to D.C and set their stall out, told him this (X) is what we have for players and this (X) is what we want to achieved etc ? I don't know and it seems neither does DC, at least I am making a guess that this could be the case. I am disappointed that DC hasn't rebuffed Leeds, I think that says a lot and now we may have a manager who is holed under the waterline if it goes tats up. It's all ifs and maybes and no one seems to be able to put pay to the rumour mill. Just when I felt comfortable and genuinely happy. I empathise, KP, but to some in the management, playing and club staff, it's just a job. Emotional attachment to any particular club that evokes loyalty is rare....unfortunately. That's the way I see it. If DC feels for whatever reason his future lies away from the Mem, and there is nothing we can do to influence it at any level, then I would have to thank him for his efforts and wish him all the best. I wouldn't stand in his way. Nor did I with Stewie. Nor did I with Lambo. Nor did I with Smithy. ....and why I have utmost respect for Lee Brown. That's interesting - it begs the question would have happened if you HAD stood in the way of those people leaving? Could you have stopped them if you'd had the inclination to? If so, then I am afraid that you have personally let down Gasheads everywhere very badly.
More importantly though - what would be the mechanism be for standing in their way and why do you think it would be so effective in all those cases? Are you simply an extremely large person that they would struggle to get round? Do you have some sort of tazering device to keep them where they are? Is the reason that you have the utmost respect for Lee Brown due to him backing down when you stood in his way? So many questions.....
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