Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 13:02:10 GMT
Resources, and Clarke inheriting a defence that more than held it's own against L2 team. What is our actual playing budget compared to those around us please?
Based on attendances, which is where the bulk of the income comes from, it should be easily enough to finish 15 points clear of a Barnet team who average less than 2000 paying customers per home game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 13:05:06 GMT
my point is bg only comments when the team lose or draw,if we go up he will go missing for a while Presenting opinion as fact, well done.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 30, 2015 13:06:56 GMT
What is our actual playing budget compared to those around us please?
Based on attendances, which is where the bulk of the income comes from, it should be easily enough to finish 15 points clear of a Barnet team who average less than 2000 paying custmers per home game. Now that I agree with. But the mismanagement of the club's finances that has left a budget which I'm sure is good for the Conference, but not blow-everyone-away good, is hardly the present manager's fault.
So, next thing to think about. What is the club spending its money on? Where should it be saving?
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Post by droitwichgas on Mar 30, 2015 13:14:48 GMT
That is what a goalscorer is all about and why Taylor will never be a top goalscorer. Easter shot when their was no option whereas Taylor shot from way out when there were other players in better positions. To be fair the service on Saturday was VERY poor but we totally lacked a physical presence up front against two competant big centre halves. Blissett should have started with Taylor on the bench. Disagree on that one as Easter shot 2 or 3 times when he had other options on, neither time even troubling the goalie, at least Taylor's weak shot brought a save. Regardless Easter's stats don't back up your arguement as he's scored around 1 in 4 games, Taylor's averaging around 1 in 3.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 13:15:59 GMT
Based on attendances, which is where the bulk of the income comes from, it should be easily enough to finish 15 points clear of a Barnet team who average less than 2000 paying custmers per home game. Now that I agree with. But the mismanagement of the club's finances that has left a budget which I'm sure is good for the Conference, but not blow-everyone-away good, is hardly the present manager's fault.
So, next thing to think about. What is the club spending its money on? Where should it be saving?
Paying interest on loans, and still having a couple of high earners from last season will be knocking a bit of a hole in the playing budget, but there should still be plenty left over to put dross like Dartford to the sword more often than not. The point remains, apart from the right back position, the best bit of this team is the bit that Clarke inherited. The midfield and attack aren't exactly setting the world on fire. Still, we are where we are, 5 games to go. Time for Lines to roll up his sleeves and show what he's made of and why we are lucky to have a player with a few good years left in him and with bundles of League experience.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 30, 2015 14:24:37 GMT
Now that I agree with. But the mismanagement of the club's finances that has left a budget which I'm sure is good for the Conference, but not blow-everyone-away good, is hardly the present manager's fault.
So, next thing to think about. What is the club spending its money on? Where should it be saving?
Paying interest on loans, and still having a couple of high earners from last season will be knocking a bit of a hole in the playing budget, but there should still be plenty left over to put dross like Dartford to the sword more often than not. The point remains, apart from the right back position, the best bit of this team is the bit that Clarke inherited. The midfield and attack aren't exactly setting the world on fire. Still, we are where we are, 5 games to go. Time for Lines to roll up his sleeves and show what he's made of and why we are lucky to have a player with a few good years left in him and with bundles of League experience. 'More often than not' - but we are winning, more often than not. We've won 21 times, and not won 20 times.
Anyway, is it not obvious that in football budgets the law of diminishing returns is alive and well? The wages for a player that is 10% better is not 10% higher, but more like 40-50% higher. To have a team that will walk the league, you need every player to be 10-20% better than every other player in the league. Most of those players don't want to play in the Conference, reducing the pool and increasing the wage demands still further, so you need a budget that is not only higher than everyone else's, but massively higher. I'm not convinced we have that.
I'm also not convinced that even if we had that budget, its a particularly easy thing to get right first time. Is seems to me that there are far more examples out there of teams that should walk leagues not doing so, over those that manage it. Football can be a very frustrating game.
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 30, 2015 15:20:24 GMT
Not sure there have been many teams relegated who've retained a 6,000+ average home gate (and the income which goes with that) and not started off in dire financial states &/or with a points deduction? Grimsby's football club wages last season was £1.5m on a turnover of £2m ours was something like £3.5m on £4m turnover, even if you knock a £1m off both those figures they still drawf even Grimsby's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 16:09:18 GMT
Not sure there have been many teams relegated who've retained a 6,000+ average home gate (and the income which goes with that) and not started off in dire financial states &/or with a points deduction? Grimsby's football club wages last season was £1.5m on a turnover of £2m ours was something like £3.5m on £4m turnover, even if you knock a £1m off both those figures they still drawf even Grimsby's. That's more than enough of that. If you could just pick up some pom-poms and join the line please. There is something in the fact that there was downward's inertia, but we now seem to have arrested that, albeit at a very low level. Maybe Mad Dog won't get his team promoted, but with the resources at his disposal he's done a pretty good job. Only once this season has their home crowd exceeded 2100, and that was when Grimby brought more than half of the crowd with them. It's hard not to think that had we gone after him last summer we would already be promoted.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 30, 2015 16:09:47 GMT
Not sure there have been many teams relegated who've retained a 6,000+ average home gate (and the income which goes with that) and not started off in dire financial states &/or with a points deduction? Grimsby's football club wages last season was £1.5m on a turnover of £2m ours was something like £3.5m on £4m turnover, even if you knock a £1m off both those figures they still drawf even Grimsby's. I think our budget is even lower than that - Higgs stated when the accounts were published that 'the wage bill across the company as a whole was up from about £3.2 million to £3.5 million as the board invested in a number of loan players...'
So if you knock a million off a more ordinary budget of £3.2m, you get £2.2m, and I reckon the reduction could be even more than £1m, as some of the players that left were undoubtedly the highest paid - Smith, O'Toole, Clarkson, Paterson, Harrold, Gill, Woodards, Brunt... Plus we've had something like 16 players come in, 19 players go out, excluding loans.
All conjecture I know, but my second point, about the fact that even with a high budget its not easy in football to get everything right first time, stands. If our poor start had been even an average start, we'd be well clear now.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
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Post by harrybuckle on Mar 30, 2015 16:37:26 GMT
Blissett for me and many others I talk to has been a major disappointment he has no physical appearance and by his own admission in a recent Rovers interview in the programme conceded he is not an aggressive forward. The coaching staff have told him he needs to be more physical but he said it is not his nature ! The Conference and league two is full of big central defenders not particularly talented but stoppers and he must compete with them. Which frankly I doubt if he is capable on the evidence of the games he has played in. Harrison is by far a more physical presence and deserves to start ..again he was one of those responsible for our relegation and needs to prove to us he can handle it by starting rather than an impact player from the bench.
I am going to bang on about Blissett again. When he played against us at the Mem he picked the ball up 35 yards from the penalty area and ran with pace towards goal which always worries defenders. On Saturday he was playing on the edge of the area 'off the shoulder of defenders' which does not suit him. At the Mem he has been played on the edge of the area, which does not suit him. He is not able to be the 'big target man' for the increasing long balls from our half either.
I was at the Kiddy game and indeed he looked useful and scored with a powerful header HOWEVER ...his basic control and awareness in any game I have seen him since is sadly lacking. Taylor may have his critics but he has superb control and a football brain although his finishing is far from perfect BUT he with Easter are our most accomplished strikers.
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
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Post by brizzle on Mar 30, 2015 16:40:40 GMT
Not sure there have been many teams relegated who've retained a 6,000+ average home gate (and the income which goes with that) and not started off in dire financial states &/or with a points deduction? Grimsby's football club wages last season was £1.5m on a turnover of £2m ours was something like £3.5m on £4m turnover, even if you knock a £1m off both those figures they still drawf even Grimsby's. I think our budget is even lower than that - Higgs stated when the accounts were published that 'the wage bill across the company as a whole was up from about £3.2 million to £3.5 million as the board invested in a number of loan players...'
So if you knock a million off a more ordinary budget of £3.2m, you get £2.2m, and I reckon the reduction could be even more than £1m, as some of the players that left were undoubtedly the highest paid - Smith, O'Toole, Clarkson, Paterson, Harrold, Gill, Woodards, Brunt... Plus we've had something like 16 players come in, 19 players go out, excluding loans.
All conjecture I know, but my second point, about the fact that even with a high budget its not easy in football to get everything right first time, stands. If our poor start had been even an average start, we'd be well clear now.
Of course you're right on that one, but much more recently if we had managed to to beat FGR at home, well who knows eh? But more significantly the Eastleigh game (again at home), was an absolute sickener for me. From memory if we had won that game, wouldn't we have gone five points clear? I really did think that we could have have kicked on from there, but it was another poor display from the team, and we were drawn back into the pack. But the real problem for us this season is far too many drawn games, and a lack of goals throughout the season. It's nice to run up records of unbeaten games, but ultimately they don't win anything in the promotion stakes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 17:21:12 GMT
But the real problem for us this season is far too many drawn games Exactly. 15 draws. Of course it doesn't always work out as you expect, but if we had pressed on it those 15 games, still drawn 5, lost 5 but also converted 5 into wins we would have the champagne on ice already.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 17:21:29 GMT
What is our actual playing budget compared to those around us please?
Based on attendances, which is where the bulk of the income comes from, it should be easily enough to finish 15 points clear of a Barnet team who average less than 2000 paying customers per home game. Ah, the old attendance chestnut again. So the Rovers budget is 6 times more than Forest Greens and Eastleigh then based on that assumption? We all know that is not correct due to the bankrolling by their chairman. The opposite to Rovers as no one is putting their hands in their pockets form the board. reducing debt and costs, and rightly so. And that back four you keep harping on about, how much of the budget do you think they take up by themselves? And why are certain Rovers players on £6/700 a week? Never mind Rovers finally being run correctly and within their means, starting from the bottom and working their way up. Lets sack Darrel Clarke and go back to the bad old days. Its not that hard to see what Rovers are doing but the instant success at all cost brigade are always out in force.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 17:39:55 GMT
Based on attendances, which is where the bulk of the income comes from, it should be easily enough to finish 15 points clear of a Barnet team who average less than 2000 paying customers per home game. Ah, the old attendance chestnut again. So the Rovers budget is 6 times more than Forest Greens and Eastleigh then based on that assumption? We all know that is not correct due to the bankrolling by their chairman. The opposite to Rovers as no one is putting their hands in their pockets form the board. reducing debt and costs, and rightly so. And that back four you keep harping on about, how much of the budget do you think they take up by themselves? And why are certain Rovers players on £6/700 a week? Never mind Rovers finally being run correctly and within their means, starting from the bottom and working their way up. Lets sack Darrel Clarke and go back to the bad old days. Its not that hard to see what Rovers are doing but the instant success at all cost brigade are always out in force.
Last I heard, we were set to make a tidy loss again this season. Where did I say that we should live beyond our means? In fact, more than once I've lamented the day that the Agenda For Change wasn't implimented, that was all about structuring the club to run efficiently. Mike Turl is broadly implimenting it at Sollihull Moors FC, average gate just over 400, price to stand on the terrace £9, loads of offers, especially to attract supporters of local League teams along on days when their team is playing away so they don't even pay £9, they have an active community dept, a reserve team and an U18 team, and sit confortably mid-table just 1 division below Rovers. And make a small profit. So you tell me why Rovers, with both hospitality areas sold out for most games and crowds of over 6000 all season, shouldn't have blown this division away, or at very least, shouldn't be sitting clear of Barnet who have only had a gate over 2100 on one occasion this season? Edit. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Share Scheme money was almost as much as Sollihull survive on.
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Post by oviedista on Mar 30, 2015 18:12:37 GMT
But the real problem for us this season is far too many drawn games Exactly. 15 draws. Of course it doesn't always work out as you expect, but if we had pressed on it those 15 games, still drawn 5, lost 5 but also converted 5 into wins we would have the champagne on ice already. Except there wouldn't be champagne on ice would there - as there is nothing to celebrate in winning a pub league right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 18:58:41 GMT
Exactly. 15 draws. Of course it doesn't always work out as you expect, but if we had pressed on it those 15 games, still drawn 5, lost 5 but also converted 5 into wins we would have the champagne on ice already. Except there wouldn't be champagne on ice would there - as there is nothing to celebrate in winning a pub league right? I was trying to be positive and fit in
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
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Post by Bridgeman on Mar 30, 2015 19:00:34 GMT
If high attendances guaranteed anything we'd still be in....the Conference, as it was the performance of the team over the whole season that brought that about not how many turned up to watch. Whilst higher attendances should in theory provide a higher income leading to the recruitment of better players if that level of income isn't invested prudently the club will still continue to fail. Who knows whether implementing the Rovers Action for Change would have worked but if nothing else it would have at the very least given a clear structure for progress.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
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Post by Bridgeman on Mar 30, 2015 19:02:47 GMT
Except there wouldn't be champagne on ice would there - as there is nothing to celebrate in winning a pub league right? I was trying to be positive and fit in Well at least it does show you've got a sense of humour, a very necessary commodity when supporting the Gas
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 30, 2015 19:12:26 GMT
But the real problem for us this season is far too many drawn games Exactly. 15 draws. Of course it doesn't always work out as you expect, but if we had pressed on it those 15 games, still drawn 5, lost 5 but also converted 5 into wins we would have the champagne on ice already. But winning those games isn't as easy as it sounds as apart from an handful of games we've hardly dominated any away games. That's what's worries me about the run in, even Wembley if we get there, as how is this team going to go out and win away games?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 19:45:36 GMT
even Wembley if we get there, as how is this team going to go out and win away games? If Taylor plays at Wembley then this giant goal is our best hope,
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