dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 872
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 30, 2015 18:15:48 GMT
"we're in the effing Conference and shouldn't be" - Yes we should. We finished in a relegation spot at the end of the season. It's the old adage, the league tables don't lie. We are where we should be. Deal with it, learn to live with it and move on. It's better to be positive about the future than to live with bitterness regarding the past. Well said the Nobster ! Regardless of of whether you're a rose tinter or a doom & gloom merchant neither stance would of changed our present position despite the claims of some who think if we'd all moaned ( behind our keyboards ) things would of been so much better .The rose tinters have more enjoyment along the way though than those miserable b******s Who ever said that?
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intheknow
Archie Stephens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 232
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Post by intheknow on Jan 30, 2015 18:46:58 GMT
Well said the Nobster ! Regardless of of whether you're a rose tinter or a doom & gloom merchant neither stance would of changed our present position despite the claims of some who think if we'd all moaned ( behind our keyboards ) things would of been so much better .The rose tinters have more enjoyment along the way though than those miserable b******s Who ever said that? Many ! we have the club we deserve because some fans don't moan enough . where have you been the last 5 yrs ?
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Post by bluebeard on Jan 30, 2015 18:55:31 GMT
No I'm pretty sure it is secured, on the Mem. If you mean do I think the directors are unsecured then the answer is yes, there is no formal charge registered against the club's assets for any of the directors? Well exactly You appear to have painted a picture of a benign shareholder where the club is unemcumbered with debt. But the opposite is true, debt held by a sympathetic shareholder and director has been paid off by a provider who holds no such view. In fact if GD's shareholding is included the club have swapped equity for debt, unless MSP are now shareholders, which I doubt. Higg's position is as nebulous as his PR announcements, but I tend to believe he has converted debt to equity. But it would help debate if you did not make misleading assertions. Well I'm frightfully sorry old chap. The debate appeared to be focusing on Higgs specifically. You are correct in what you are saying about GD but again, we don't really know how much his shares were bought back for and whether the Deltavon loan yielded much of a return for him. However, I'm sure he did very nicely out of milk sales to the club and occasionally providing accommodation for club employees. All together now ... "where's the money gone, oh where's the money gone?"
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Post by swissgas on Jan 30, 2015 18:55:52 GMT
"we're in the effing Conference and shouldn't be" - Yes we should. We finished in a relegation spot at the end of the season. It's the old adage, the league tables don't lie. We are where we should be. Deal with it, learn to live with it and move on. It's better to be positive about the future than to live with bitterness regarding the past. Nobby thanks for "liking" my post on the Gaschat "Quid a kid" thread but why has no one responded to it ? The same happened with my post on here last weekend about whether the MSP Capital money had been used to repay other directors ? The "Quid a kid" post was intended to show how we could fight back against City. The MSP Capital post was intended to find out if the directors were still loaning unsecured money to Rovers and so still had faith in the future. Why did no one want to talk about these matters was it because they were frightened or embarrassed ? I sometimes think that Rovers fans read posts which make them uneasy so they revert to a default position of "this could be viewed as critical of the board therefore it must be anti - Rovers therefore I can't comment on it let alone support it even though it makes sense". My "Quid a kid" post was designed to be a bit provocative and suggest why we should not cower down in the face of positive moves by City to attract the support of youngsters. I suspect many people read it and thought 'yes that makes some sense but our board would never consider it so why waste your time Swiss". I was half hoping someone would knock it down with reasoned argument and suggest something better and that gradually, instead of accepting defeat, we could work out something which would fight back against City and which we could pressurise the board to actually implement. In the same vein my post about MSP Capital was designed to be a bit provocative and attract a response from either fans or Brian which said " Of course Nick and the other directors still have unsecured loans to the club and are still financing it's day to day running because to borrow money against the stadium and use it for loan repayment or working capital would create the impression that the board have no faith in the future. How can the fans be told to have faith if the board don't ? " The topic here is about unity and I believe the key to unity is having leadership which provides something to fight for, the tools to fight with and the self sacrifice which inspires the fighters.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 18:56:07 GMT
Many ! we have the club we deserve because some fans don't moan enough . where have you been the last 5 yrs ? Not blinkered obviously
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 18:57:36 GMT
Well exactly You appear to have painted a picture of a benign shareholder where the club is unemcumbered with debt. But the opposite is true, debt held by a sympathetic shareholder and director has been paid off by a provider who holds no such view. In fact if GD's shareholding is included the club have swapped equity for debt, unless MSP are now shareholders, which I doubt. Higg's position is as nebulous as his PR announcements, but I tend to believe he has converted debt to equity. But it would help debate if you did not make misleading assertions. Well I'm frightfully sorry old chap. The debate appeared to be focusing on Higgs specifically. You are correct in what you are saying about GD but again, we don't really know how much his shares were bought back for and whether the Deltavon loan yielded much of a return for him. However, I'm sure he did very nicely out of milk sales to the club and occasionally providing accommodation for club employees. All together now ... "where's the money gone, oh where's the money gone?" I will accept the apology for making misleading assertions in defence of the indefensible
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dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 872
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 30, 2015 19:00:55 GMT
Many ! we have the club we deserve because some fans don't moan enough . where have you been the last 5 yrs ? Watching my club slowly die. But even if half the fan base were against the incompetents, they wouldn't change. No worries if folk want to point out the failures of the board or not, some just want to go to the game, but the problem I have is with the ones who are actively happy with Higgs and friends.
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Post by bluebeard on Jan 30, 2015 19:02:59 GMT
Well I'm frightfully sorry old chap. The debate appeared to be focusing on Higgs specifically. You are correct in what you are saying about GD but again, we don't really know how much his shares were bought back for and whether the Deltavon loan yielded much of a return for him. However, I'm sure he did very nicely out of milk sales to the club and occasionally providing accommodation for club employees. All together now ... "where's the money gone, oh where's the money gone?" I will accept the apology for making misleading assertions in defence of the indefensible Thanks Oldie that's very gracious of you.
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intheknow
Archie Stephens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 232
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Post by intheknow on Jan 30, 2015 19:04:19 GMT
Many ! we have the club we deserve because some fans don't moan enough . where have you been the last 5 yrs ? Watching my club slowly die. But even if half the fan base were against the incompetents, they wouldn't change. No worries if folk want to point out the failures of the board or not, some just want to go to the game, but the problem I have is with the ones who are actively happy with Higgs and friends. How long do you think it'll be before we die ?
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Post by bluebeard on Jan 30, 2015 19:06:43 GMT
Many ! we have the club we deserve because some fans don't moan enough . where have you been the last 5 yrs ? Watching my club slowly die. But even if half the fan base were against the incompetents, they wouldn't change. No worries if folk want to point out the failures of the board or not, some just want to go to the game, but the problem I have is with the ones who are actively happy with Higgs and friends. The club has been slowly dying or in terminal decline for 14 years according to some but guess what? We're still here! Lighten up man it's Friday and we're going to win 3-1 tomorrow with a following of 895 in a crowd of 2,766. UTG
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 20:54:57 GMT
I will accept the apology for making misleading assertions in defence of the indefensible Thanks Oldie that's very gracious of you. [bry] You are welcome Just don't keep doing it
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dagnogo
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 872
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Post by dagnogo on Jan 30, 2015 21:06:30 GMT
Watching my club slowly die. But even if half the fan base were against the incompetents, they wouldn't change. No worries if folk want to point out the failures of the board or not, some just want to go to the game, but the problem I have is with the ones who are actively happy with Higgs and friends. The club has been slowly dying or in terminal decline for 14 years according to some but guess what? We're still here! Lighten up man it's Friday and we're going to win 3-1 tomorrow with a following of 895 in a crowd of 2,766. UTG Other than the PT era the terminal decline bit is true. I've got a pizza and a San Miguel, I'm not fretting about it
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 21:23:52 GMT
The club has been slowly dying or in terminal decline for 14 years according to some but guess what? We're still here! Lighten up man it's Friday and we're going to win 3-1 tomorrow with a following of 895 in a crowd of 2,766. UTG Other than the PT era the terminal decline bit is true. I've got a pizza and a San Miguel, I'm not fretting about it What's on the pizza? Might be fretting in the morning yet!
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intheknow
Archie Stephens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 232
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Post by intheknow on Jan 30, 2015 21:56:55 GMT
The club has been slowly dying or in terminal decline for 14 years according to some but guess what? We're still here! Lighten up man it's Friday and we're going to win 3-1 tomorrow with a following of 895 in a crowd of 2,766. UTG Other than the PT era the terminal decline bit is true. I've got a pizza and a San Miguel, I'm not fretting about it Enjoy but you still haven't answered...... How long have we got ?
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Post by badbloodash on Jan 30, 2015 22:57:40 GMT
I think that all lower league football will be in massive decline soon I can't see how sky /bt can maintain the stranglehold they have soon each club will sell their product online and Saturday afternoons will never be the same I can see a scenario where certain leagues are allocated a day each week for their product welcome to Thursday night football brfc
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 31, 2015 9:39:13 GMT
From my point of view, there are two groups:
1. Those that worry about the future of the club 2. Those that do not worry about the future of the club.
Why people in 2. are bothered by people in 1. is beyond me.
What's beyond me is how group 1 abuse group 2 through slapping down any positivity and name calling like Happy clappers 1. You imply that discussion of the future of the club is automatically negative. What does that tell you? 2. I don't recall any thread discussing immediate footballing matters where someone has gone on and said that this should not be discussed. I don't recall any new thread stating that immediate footballing matters should not be discussed. I recall a number stating that long term matters should not be discussed, such as this one. Incidentally, the first post here states that discussion of long term matters will automatically cause disunity. I think I get it now, you are both making subtle but damning criticisms of the club's prospects, wrapped up in superficial positivity. Very clever, like it
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 10:14:10 GMT
What's beyond me is how group 1 abuse group 2 through slapping down any positivity and name calling like Happy clappers 1. You imply that discussion of the future of the club is automatically negative. What does that tell you? 2. I don't recall any thread discussing immediate footballing matters where someone has gone on and said that this should not be discussed. I don't recall any new thread stating that immediate footballing matters should not be discussed. I recall a number stating that long term matters should not be discussed, such as this one. Incidentally, the first post here states that discussion of long term matters will automatically cause disunity. I think I get it now, you are both making subtle but damning criticisms of the club's prospects, wrapped up in superficial positivity. Very clever, like it Ha ha Far too subtle faggotygas
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Post by lympstonegas on Jan 31, 2015 11:07:53 GMT
1. You imply that discussion of the future of the club is automatically negative. What does that tell you? 2. I don't recall any thread discussing immediate footballing matters where someone has gone on and said that this should not be discussed. I don't recall any new thread stating that immediate footballing matters should not be discussed. I recall a number stating that long term matters should not be discussed, such as this one. Incidentally, the first post here states that discussion of long term matters will automatically cause disunity. I think I get it now, you are both making subtle but damning criticisms of the club's prospects, wrapped up in superficial positivity. Very clever, like it Ha ha Far too subtle faggotygas Nope you're 100% wrong on my account. I was actually playing Devils Advocate. If it is of any interest and to counter faggotygas claim I am making subtle but damming criticisms of the club you couldn't be further from the truth. Being a supporter of the club since 1967 I Never believed i would ever see us in the Basement as City were - whilst I recognise there were failings at Board level I believe the focus of the failures lay with the managers and players- buying policy tactics training and attitudes over the past 7 odd years. As a psychotherapist my role is to recognise the positives and work with those to provide optimism belief and hope to enable one to move forward once negative behaviours and coping strategies are identified and corrected to give a good foundation. I recognise there are people on here who don't believe this platform is in place at the club - no tangible outcomes of a review communicated to the fans. I actually hold faith that there is. Higgs is a fan and relegation and incompetence would hurt / it's his money, role as figurehead and personal pride and I feel his biggest mistake was he trusted those in charge of the playing side for too long - possibly sidetracked understandly by all the politically manoeuvring by Trash Sainsbury and UWE dealings. I actually believe in what DC is doing and feel it demonstrates a different approach based on a review strategy? I think we will get promoted and if that makes me a rose tinted happy clapper I don't care as my philosophy has always been to use your energy and resources to build a new future not dwell on misery and failings of the past so you become paralysed in negativity. I'm sorry if this posting upsets some on here. I have been honest in my opinion and support the OP. I recognise others will feel different and I can respect that even if it can frustrate me professionally some times ?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 31, 2015 11:23:06 GMT
Ha ha Far too subtle faggotygas Nope you're 100% wrong on my account. I was actually playing Devils Advocate. If it is of any interest and to counter faggotygas claim I am making subtle but damming criticisms of the club you couldn't be further from the truth. Being a supporter of the club since 1967 I Never believed i would ever see us in the Basement as City were - whilst I recognise there were failings at Board level I believe the focus of the failures lay with the managers and players- buying policy tactics training and attitudes over the past 7 odd years. As a psychotherapist my role is to recognise the positives and work with those to provide optimism belief and hope to enable one to move forward once negative behaviours and coping strategies are identified and corrected to give a good foundation. I recognise there are people on here who don't believe this platform is in place at the club - no tangible outcomes of a review communicated to the fans. I actually hold faith that there is. Higgs is a fan and relegation and incompetence would hurt / it's his money, role as figurehead and personal pride and I feel his biggest mistake was he trusted those in charge of the playing side for too long - possibly sidetracked understandly by all the politically manoeuvring by Trash Sainsbury and UWE dealings. I actually believe in what DC is doing and feel it demonstrates a different approach based on a review strategy? I think we will get promoted and if that makes me a rose tinted happy clapper I don't care as my philosophy has always been to use your energy and resources to build a new future not dwell on misery and failings of the past so you become paralysed in negativity. I'm sorry if this posting upsets some on here. I have been honest in my opinion and support the OP. I recognise others will feel different and I can respect that even if it can frustrate me professionally some times ? 1. As a psychotherapist, what does your subconscious association of negativity with discussion of the future of the club tell you? 2. You think our position as the most underachieving football club in the country is not down to the way the club is run? How many managers and players have we been through, yet the decline continued - can't just be bad luck in recruitment.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 11:35:31 GMT
It's the imposing manner of the positivity (as in the OP) that causes a bit of friction I think. Yep, especially where 'imposing' includes 'dismissive' as in 'you're not a true fan unless you cheer everything like a simpleton' and 'unity is required from you b******s'. Plus, we're clearly not 'by far the greatest team the world has ever seen' because we're in the effing Conference and shouldn't be, so steadfast back slapping and self-licking is deluded and unhelpful, and deserves slapping down. People from the "imposing" group have to be imposing because of all the negative drivel they read on here about how the club is run - it makes them feel better !
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