bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 393
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Post by bondigas on Aug 13, 2021 8:46:12 GMT
Does this structure mean that an equivalent of Tony Xia could be behind one of these nominees ?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 9:17:54 GMT
Does this structure mean that an equivalent of Tony Xia could be behind one of these nominees ? It's certainly a complicated jigsaw without a picture.
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 13, 2021 9:33:55 GMT
Does this structure mean that an equivalent of Tony Xia could be behind one of these nominees ? It's certainly a complicated jigsaw without a picture. It can't be 100% right as I can't think that Lloyd's Banking Group is our ultimate holding company (and it contains question marks at several levels) But it's a very helpful start I'm wondering why the very complex structure - unless the operating losses of BRFC are offset against some seemingly unrelated profits somewhere along the line?
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,108
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Post by bloogas on Aug 13, 2021 10:11:20 GMT
I shall have to invest in a copy of "A duffers guide to keeping your agenda hidden" Because bloogas and vaughan see through my posts every time Keep them coming. I love reading them. I accept that you may well be right.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 10:28:58 GMT
There is insinuation. You may not wish to see it, but the link between the programme and DS as an offshore company is deliberate. Read Swiss' second paragraph. My advice to him is consistent. There is enough to moan about without his "clever" sh*t-stirring. To be fair to Higgs, he didn't sell us down the river and Hamer did a lot of the leg-work. #boohiss. We were looking into the abyss when DS took us over as our "Gashead Directors" had no cash left to fund the losses, hence Wonga loan. In a single post you've lambasted Swiss for insinuating something then gone on to make a baseless statement yourself which I strongly suspect that you can't support. Jelf is, by normal standards, a wealthy Man and I'm pretty sure has sufficient cash to have covered the loan from MSP Capital, Higgs almost certainly had considerably more than £2.3m left over from selling his equity in Cowlin. So, as you've made a statement of fact, go on, demonstrate that those 2 individuals neither collectively nor individually had £2.3m.You and Swiss have been harping on for months that WAQ does not have the means to fund us, whilst presenting no evidence. But when it comes to the old board you are suggesting they had the means to fund us and you are wanting others to provide evidence that they didn't. You do have to admit, it is slightly amusing
Actually, I think its brilliant!
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Aug 13, 2021 10:34:48 GMT
Does this structure mean that an equivalent of Tony Xia could be behind one of these nominees ? Life was so much easier when you could just reach out and touch Vernon Stokes.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 13, 2021 10:43:41 GMT
I shall have to invest in a copy of "A duffers guide to keeping your agenda hidden" Because bloogas and vaughan see through my posts every time Keep them coming. I love reading them. I accept that you may well be right. Thing is, none of “us” will ever know. Wael has rid the club of longterm employees and replaced with yes men. None shall know until either a crisis happens or we get sold. What a tangled web we weave etc etc
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,710
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Post by Cheshiregas on Aug 13, 2021 10:44:04 GMT
I do believe that both Higgs and the other directors had the PERSONAL funds to meet losses. If I remember correctly Higgs stated at the time that the other directors did not wish to input any more of their personal funds to pay for further losses and hence he put the outstanding debt at the time onto the 'Wonga' style loan as he didn't want to risk losing his own funds when others weren't prepared to do the same.
I also believe the 'Wonga' style loan was more than the £2.3mln indicated by TWD, but stand to be corrected.
No one has shown an Asset & Liability statement for Wael so I am not sure how people can say he doesn't have the funds to pay for ongoing losses or investments. I don't know personally whether he has or not but if people say he doesn't then evidence would be welcome.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 13, 2021 10:47:43 GMT
Does this structure mean that an equivalent of Tony Xia could be behind one of these nominees ? Life was so much easier when you could just reach out and touch Vernon Stokes. or have a drink with dear old Tone 😂😂. Lord, he loved to big himself up eh
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 13, 2021 10:53:51 GMT
I do believe that both Higgs and the other directors had the PERSONAL funds to meet losses. If I remember correctly Higgs stated at the time that the other directors did not wish to input any more of their personal funds to pay for further losses and hence he put the outstanding debt at the time onto the 'Wonga' style loan as he didn't want to risk losing his own funds when others weren't prepared to do the same. I also believe the 'Wonga' style loan was more than the £2.3mln indicated by TWD, but stand to be corrected. No one has shown an Asset & Liability statement for Wael so I am not sure how people can say he doesn't have the funds to pay for ongoing losses or investments. I don't know personally whether he has or not but if people say he doesn't then evidence would be welcome. My own view is that NH attempted to try and use this in the case v Sainsburys too but we will never know. What we do know is that GD forced NH to step down as he insisted ALL directors stood down for the sale to go through and at a very late stage. The look on NH face, when introducing the new owners was one of a stunned man
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 13, 2021 10:54:41 GMT
Keep them coming. I love reading them. I accept that you may well be right. Thing is, none of “us” will ever know. Wael has rid the club of longterm employees and replaced with yes men. None shall know until either a crisis happens or we get sold. What a tangled web we weave etc etc Don't agree with the 'yes men' bit It seems that many of them haven't been able to get on the same page, so that they weren't 'yes enough' to my thinking
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Aug 13, 2021 10:56:56 GMT
Thing is, none of “us” will ever know. Wael has rid the club of longterm employees and replaced with yes men. None shall know until either a crisis happens or we get sold. What a tangled web we weave etc etc Don't agree with the 'yes men' bit It seems that many of them haven't been able to get on the same page, so that they weren't 'yes enough' to my thinking You could be right & this is why I say none of us will know.
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,108
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Post by bloogas on Aug 13, 2021 11:27:56 GMT
Life was so much easier when you could just reach out and touch Vernon Stokes. or have a drink with dear old Tone 😂😂. Lord, he loved to big himself up eh That's where you have the advantage of me. I don't move in exalted circles. Although - my ex-boss has a daughter who is a "Forensic Accountant" on Jersey. Perhaps......
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 12:06:35 GMT
In a single post you've lambasted Swiss for insinuating something then gone on to make a baseless statement yourself which I strongly suspect that you can't support. Jelf is, by normal standards, a wealthy Man and I'm pretty sure has sufficient cash to have covered the loan from MSP Capital, Higgs almost certainly had considerably more than £2.3m left over from selling his equity in Cowlin. So, as you've made a statement of fact, go on, demonstrate that those 2 individuals neither collectively nor individually had £2.3m.You and Swiss have been harping on for months that WAQ does not have the means to fund us, whilst presenting no evidence. But when it comes to the old board you are suggesting they had the means to fund us and you are wanting others to provide evidence that they didn't. You do have to admit, it is slightly amusing
Actually, I think its brilliant! No I haven't. What I've said, consistently, is that the only sources of income that Wael has that I'm aware of are his share holdings in Four Seasons Jordan and in AJIB, and it's a matter of public record that the income from those in the last couple of years is insufficient to cover what has been spent / lost at Rovers. I've then gone on to ask a question, namely, can anybody find any evidence of additional income that he has? It's also a matter of public record what happened with Chris Jelf and share holdings, and what the value of the equity in Cowlin was that Higgs sold. The Cowlin situation is well known, but I'll help you with Chris Jelf, here you go, this is just one transaction, So as you can see, just this transaction grossed Mr Jelf £2,775,360. The point being, I strongly suspect that at the time that the MSP loan was taken out that collectively the BoD between them were in a position to raise £2.3m, and unless I've misunderstood, the point I was originally responding to was that someone thought that maybe they couldn't raise that sum between them. Now that you've had the self evident explained to you, yet again, go try to start an argument with someone else, because every single time you've tried this with me all you've done is misrepresented what I've said and ended up making yourself look a little silly.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 12:22:20 GMT
You and Swiss have been harping on for months that WAQ does not have the means to fund us, whilst presenting no evidence. But when it comes to the old board you are suggesting they had the means to fund us and you are wanting others to provide evidence that they didn't. You do have to admit, it is slightly amusing
Actually, I think its brilliant! No I haven't. What I've said, consistently, is that the only sources of income that Wael has that I'm aware of are his share holdings in Four Seasons Jordan and in AJIB, and it's a matter of public record that the income from those in the last couple of years is insufficient to cover what has been spent / lost at Rovers. I've then gone on to ask a question, namely, can anybody find any evidence of additional income that he has? It's also a matter of public record what happened with Chris Jelf and share holdings, and what the value of the equity in Cowlin was that Higgs sold. The Cowlin situation is well known, but I'll help you with Chris Jelf, here you go, this is just one transaction, So as you can see, just this transaction grossed Mr Jelf £2,775,360. The point being, I strongly suspect that at the time that the MSP loan was taken out that collectively the BoD between them were in a position to raise £2.3m, and unless I've misunderstood, the point I was originally responding to was that someone thought that maybe they couldn't raise that sum between them. Now that you've had the self evident explained to you, yet again, go try to start an argument with someone else, because every single time you've tried this with me all you've done is misrepresented what I've said and ended up making yourself look a little silly. You do make me smile TWD , which is good, as not many contrarians do I suspect you are right by the way, I think the old BOD could have found the funds but probably had had enough. Can't say I blame them, that model was already breaking and its no longer a game for local businessmen done good.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 12:35:27 GMT
No I haven't. What I've said, consistently, is that the only sources of income that Wael has that I'm aware of are his share holdings in Four Seasons Jordan and in AJIB, and it's a matter of public record that the income from those in the last couple of years is insufficient to cover what has been spent / lost at Rovers. I've then gone on to ask a question, namely, can anybody find any evidence of additional income that he has? It's also a matter of public record what happened with Chris Jelf and share holdings, and what the value of the equity in Cowlin was that Higgs sold. The Cowlin situation is well known, but I'll help you with Chris Jelf, here you go, this is just one transaction, So as you can see, just this transaction grossed Mr Jelf £2,775,360. The point being, I strongly suspect that at the time that the MSP loan was taken out that collectively the BoD between them were in a position to raise £2.3m, and unless I've misunderstood, the point I was originally responding to was that someone thought that maybe they couldn't raise that sum between them. Now that you've had the self evident explained to you, yet again, go try to start an argument with someone else, because every single time you've tried this with me all you've done is misrepresented what I've said and ended up making yourself look a little silly. You do make me smile TWD , which is good, as not many contrarians do I suspect you are right by the way, I think the old BOD could have found the funds but probably had had enough. Can't say I blame them, that model was already breaking and its no longer a game for local businessmen done good. Apology accepted. I think that Cheshire is correct with his recollection, the situation was that other members of the BoD did not want to continue to fund what they saw as a lost battle with Sainsbury's. If that's correct then history proves their judgement to be sound. Now, try to keep your desire to make fallacious points under control and maybe we can have a civilised conversation. To that end, what income streams for Wael are you aware of please?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 12:59:00 GMT
You do make me smile TWD , which is good, as not many contrarians do I suspect you are right by the way, I think the old BOD could have found the funds but probably had had enough. Can't say I blame them, that model was already breaking and its no longer a game for local businessmen done good. Apology accepted. I think that Cheshire is correct with his recollection, the situation was that other members of the BoD did not want to continue to fund what they saw as a lost battle with Sainsbury's. If that's correct then history proves their judgement to be sound. Now, try to keep your desire to make fallacious points under control and maybe we can have a civilised conversation. To that end, what income streams for Wael are you aware of please? Its been done to death, no wish to revisit that debate. As you very well know, its impossible to gauge someones personal wealth with any degree of accuracy, so its pointless - and you will end up simply arguing with yourself. (That said would likely be entertaining for some of us )
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 13:07:18 GMT
Apology accepted. I think that Cheshire is correct with his recollection, the situation was that other members of the BoD did not want to continue to fund what they saw as a lost battle with Sainsbury's. If that's correct then history proves their judgement to be sound. Now, try to keep your desire to make fallacious points under control and maybe we can have a civilised conversation. To that end, what income streams for Wael are you aware of please? Its been done to death, no wish to revisit that debate. As you very well know, its impossible to gauge someones personal wealth with any degree of accuracy, so its pointless - and you will end up simply arguing with yourself. (That said would likely be entertaining for some of us ) So you can't find anything other than those 2 income streams either. Fair enough.
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Post by Bath Gas on Aug 13, 2021 13:22:55 GMT
Its been done to death, no wish to revisit that debate. As you very well know, its impossible to gauge someones personal wealth with any degree of accuracy, so its pointless - and you will end up simply arguing with yourself. (That said would likely be entertaining for some of us ) So you can't find anything other than those 2 income streams either. Fair enough. Maybe he plays the stockmarket, maybe he deals in crypto currency - who knows?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 13:34:46 GMT
So you can't find anything other than those 2 income streams either. Fair enough. Maybe he plays the stockmarket, maybe he deals in crypto currency - who knows? If he does, for his sake and that of the people around him, I sincerely hope that his judgement in those areas is better than it's been in matters relating to Rovers. My Daughter plays the Post Code Lottery, shall we give her a go at running the club?
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