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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Jul 29, 2021 13:21:12 GMT
Does that mean they've caught the nasty piece of work who beat his wife up? Was she beaten up as well, then? As well as being grabbed by the throat, falling to the ground and being kicked in the head? One of his mates probably pulled him off before he had time to give her the full Tommy Robinson treatment.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,350
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Post by TaiwanGas on Jul 29, 2021 13:24:16 GMT
The issue isn't the previous cases. Even if this was the only incident he had ever been involved in, suspension would still be the appropriate choice. Wales took the right approach with Giggs. In B*****'s case, there is arguably an even greater justification for suspension, as he is facing two court cases! Suspend him and let him focus on preparing to defend himself. It isn't just right for him, as it is in the club's interests as well. It was already noted that B***** appeared detached and removed before the incident came to light. Now we know why. If he is not here in mind, then there is no point in having him here in body. The club still haven't clarified why they have taken a decision that is contrary to standard practice and common sense. The senior management at Bristol Rovers FC don't really 'do' standard practice, and they patently do not have a shred of common sense between them. As soon as the new's broke, being caught out, and obviously not having the expertise, the senior board members should have engaged a crisis management team, a lot of the mess the club find's itself in so easily could have been avoided with the use of carefully worded statements and an action plan drawn up on the club's behalf. Having personally used the service on one occasion, I can only say it was invaluable in getting the right messages across whilst maintaing relations and goodwill and avoiding misunderstandings.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 13:28:16 GMT
Or the board of directors should have known as well as all of us did what to say and what not to say, at least.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Jul 29, 2021 13:31:54 GMT
What part of Long term Reputational damage to the business, to the employers personally, Dividing and losing the fan base, and losing advertising revenue for a long term commercial and financial hit, as well as Distraction the team doesn’t need for performance don’t you understand?
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Post by baselswh on Jul 29, 2021 14:03:01 GMT
What part of Long term Reputational damage to the business, to the employers personally, Dividing and losing the fan base, and losing advertising revenue for a long term commercial and financial hit, as well as Distraction the team doesn’t need for performance don’t you understand? I think you exaggerate. Rovers reputation is imo as it was when JB first signed.The huge majority in football UK won't be shaking their heads thinking,'Rovers reputation is in ruins'.Etc. Have any sponsors quit yet? How seriously divided are Gasheads on JB? I don't know.50 50? How many won't attend because of JB? Wait and see. How are employees effected? Any been laid off yet because of your predicted doom? Have we lost advertising revenue yet? Players will take on board what JB and coaching staff tell them,then go and win football matches,imo. Once/if we are playing good football and challenging in the 4th tier,there will be reasonable le attendance figures at the Mem.A far more interesting and refreshing subject than 'get rid of JB'. Those that can't support Rovers at this time,well I hope you can change your mind. Cov19 threat allowing I'll be back st the Mem.
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Post by Bath Gas on Jul 29, 2021 14:05:29 GMT
What part of Long term Reputational damage to the business, to the employers personally, Dividing and losing the fan base, and losing advertising revenue for a long term commercial and financial hit, as well as Distraction the team doesn’t need for performance don’t you understand? It hasn't been a distraction for the team, they have had two training days and one friendly match with the Assistant Manager at the helm, if they don't have the backbone, as professionals, to cope with that and go about their daily business, then they shouldn't be playing for us. How do you know that the club will lose advertising revenue? Have Bristol City lost commercial revenue since they employed CONVICTED wife abuser Danny Simpson?
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,350
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Post by TaiwanGas on Jul 29, 2021 14:53:15 GMT
What part of Long term Reputational damage to the business, to the employers personally, Dividing and losing the fan base, and losing advertising revenue for a long term commercial and financial hit, as well as Distraction the team doesn’t need for performance don’t you understand? I think you exaggerate. Rovers reputation is imo as it was when JB first signed.The huge majority in football UK won't be shaking their heads thinking,'Rovers reputation is in ruins'.Etc. Have any sponsors quit yet? How seriously divided are Gasheads on JB? I don't know.50 50? How many won't attend because of JB? Wait and see. How are employees effected? Any been laid off yet because of your predicted doom? Have we lost advertising revenue yet? Players will take on board what JB and coaching staff tell them,then go and win football matches,imo. Once/if we are playing good football and challenging in the 4th tier,there will be reasonable le attendance figures at the Mem.A far more interesting and refreshing subject than 'get rid of JB'. Those that can't support Rovers at this time,well I hope you can change your mind. Cov19 threat allowing I'll be back st the Mem. I wonder if Tom Gorringe has any concern's now and for the future, as Rovers Salesman, I imagine he got his head in his hand's.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 29, 2021 15:07:56 GMT
I think you exaggerate. Rovers reputation is imo as it was when JB first signed.The huge majority in football UK won't be shaking their heads thinking,'Rovers reputation is in ruins'.Etc. Have any sponsors quit yet? How seriously divided are Gasheads on JB? I don't know.50 50? How many won't attend because of JB? Wait and see. How are employees effected? Any been laid off yet because of your predicted doom? Have we lost advertising revenue yet? Players will take on board what JB and coaching staff tell them,then go and win football matches,imo. Once/if we are playing good football and challenging in the 4th tier,there will be reasonable le attendance figures at the Mem.A far more interesting and refreshing subject than 'get rid of JB'. Those that can't support Rovers at this time,well I hope you can change your mind. Cov19 threat allowing I'll be back st the Mem. I wonder if Tom Gorringe has any concern's now and for the future, as Rovers Salesman, I imagine he got his head in his hand's. I don't know. I think maybe - I don't know - we have some Gasheads being offended on behalf of the UK,whether the UK wants it or not. Wait until we start playing good football, win games and challenge. Imo.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 15:20:17 GMT
I wonder if Tom Gorringe has any concern's now and for the future, as Rovers Salesman, I imagine he got his head in his hand's. I don't know. I think maybe - I don't know - we have some Gasheads being offended on behalf of the UK,whether the UK wants it or not. Wait until we start playing good football, win games and challenge. Imo. How many times do you need this explaining to you. Do you want the links again to what Rovers supporters thought when Fleetwood first employed him? Judging by the comments on the BBC website from supporters of various clubs following the story they ran when we were relegated last season, the hostility from Rovers' supporters matches general opinion from around the country towards B*****.
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Post by lostinspace on Jul 29, 2021 15:24:00 GMT
What part of Long term Reputational damage to the business, to the employers personally, Dividing and losing the fan base, and losing advertising revenue for a long term commercial and financial hit, as well as Distraction the team doesn’t need for performance don’t you understand? I think you exaggerate. Rovers reputation is imo as it was when JB first signed.The huge majority in football UK won't be shaking their heads thinking,'Rovers reputation is in ruins'.Etc. Have any sponsors quit yet? How seriously divided are Gasheads on JB? I don't know.50 50? How many won't attend because of JB? Wait and see. How are employees effected? Any been laid off yet because of your predicted doom? Have we lost advertising revenue yet? Players will take on board what JB and coaching staff tell them,then go and win football matches,imo. Once/if we are playing good football and challenging in the 4th tier,there will be reasonable le attendance figures at the Mem.A far more interesting and refreshing subject than 'get rid of JB'. Those that can't support Rovers at this time,well I hope you can change your mind. Cov19 threat allowing I'll be back st the Mem. when news broke of his appointment, i said then, that when and not before will this club receive any funds or support from me, until that person has left the building... for good , wouldn't give two hoots if they gained promotion with him at the helm,
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 15:29:38 GMT
I think you exaggerate. Rovers reputation is imo as it was when JB first signed.The huge majority in football UK won't be shaking their heads thinking,'Rovers reputation is in ruins'.Etc. Have any sponsors quit yet? How seriously divided are Gasheads on JB? I don't know.50 50? How many won't attend because of JB? Wait and see. How are employees effected? Any been laid off yet because of your predicted doom? Have we lost advertising revenue yet? Players will take on board what JB and coaching staff tell them,then go and win football matches,imo. Once/if we are playing good football and challenging in the 4th tier,there will be reasonable le attendance figures at the Mem.A far more interesting and refreshing subject than 'get rid of JB'. Those that can't support Rovers at this time,well I hope you can change your mind. Cov19 threat allowing I'll be back st the Mem. when news broke of his appointment, i said then, that when and not before will this club receive any funds or support from me, until that person has left the building... for good , wouldn't give two hoots if they gained promotion with him at the helm, 100% agree, and am surprised that people like Bas think we will sacrifice our standards because a football club has won a couple of games. Not a chance. I'm with you on this. This is NOT the Bristol Rovers that I support.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 29, 2021 15:32:52 GMT
I think you exaggerate. Rovers reputation is imo as it was when JB first signed.The huge majority in football UK won't be shaking their heads thinking,'Rovers reputation is in ruins'.Etc. Have any sponsors quit yet? How seriously divided are Gasheads on JB? I don't know.50 50? How many won't attend because of JB? Wait and see. How are employees effected? Any been laid off yet because of your predicted doom? Have we lost advertising revenue yet? Players will take on board what JB and coaching staff tell them,then go and win football matches,imo. Once/if we are playing good football and challenging in the 4th tier,there will be reasonable le attendance figures at the Mem.A far more interesting and refreshing subject than 'get rid of JB'. Those that can't support Rovers at this time,well I hope you can change your mind. Cov19 threat allowing I'll be back st the Mem. when news broke of his appointment, i said then, that when and not before will this club receive any funds or support from me, until that person has left the building... for good , wouldn't give two hoots if they gained promotion with him at the helm, I think the clubs challenge is to try and win back those that won't attend while JB is Boss. In the meantime hope the team does well and brings with it 'bums on seats' at the Mem. Win more attendees than lose them.
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Post by baselswh on Jul 29, 2021 15:35:12 GMT
when news broke of his appointment, i said then, that when and not before will this club receive any funds or support from me, until that person has left the building... for good , wouldn't give two hoots if they gained promotion with him at the helm, 100% agree, and am surprised that people like Bas think we will sacrifice our standards because a football club has won a couple of games. Not a chance. I'm with you on this. This is NOT the Bristol Rovers that I support. I had'nt considered the sincerity and seriousness of the decision to 'stay away' by some Gasheads. They may well completely mean it.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 15:49:04 GMT
I think there's a number of us who won't spend a penny on Rovers until he's gone, and I don't doubt the sincerity of this for a moment. I am one. Sadly, for me, I fear that our number will not be as significant as I may wish.
However, in fairness to Bas, I believe he's consistent. Bambi rightly notes that Gasheads condemned B*****'s psychopathy when he was a wannabe rival team's manager, then fell in behind his celebrity as soon as he was touted for ours, and this is hypocritical to the point of absurdity; but, I really don't remember Bas swicthing his position. I think Bas just sees footballing success as more important than moral decency, and has an excessive interpretation of innocent until proven guilty outside of legal process and employment law. Bas and I disagree profoundly, but we're meant to, otherwise we'd have nothing more to argue about here.
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Jul 29, 2021 15:52:01 GMT
Why on earth is innocent until guilty not proven not applicable in this case? It might not be in the minds of those home fans who hate him and would happily trash the club they love to prove a point, however the founding tenet of British law hasn’t, to my certain knowledge, been re-written to accommodate B*****’s situation. Getting a grip springs to mind here. Here we go again. Accept the unacceptable or you aren't a real supporter. It's the people who haven't spoken out and who aren't taking a stand against this disgusting appointment that are harming the club. But of course, the bulk of responsibility sits with the owner. I’m not saying anything about accepting the unacceptable. I’ve merely stated that innocent until proven guilty is still the basis of English law. If B***** is found guilty I believe Wael has said he will be dismissed, at least that’s how I read his message. Whats wrong with that? As I have said, get a grip, FFS.
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Jul 29, 2021 15:56:44 GMT
Why on earth is innocent until guilty not proven not applicable in this case? It might not be in the minds of those home fans who hate him and would happily trash the club they love to prove a point, however the founding tenet of British law hasn’t, to my certain knowledge, been re-written to accommodate B*****’s situation. Getting a grip springs to mind here. LOL! At what point in the last 20 years was he ever innocent? okay let’s ignore ALL the previous - still Suspension till the courts report is the only sane option in this situation, two very serious violent assault charges concurrently ongoing, one of them the very sensitive wife beating public and media take keen interest in, the other is attacking a rival manager from behind, for a member of staff whose also in your senior leadership team in a community business in the entertainment industry with punters coming through the door. what part of the penny isn’t dropping for you? What are you saying isn’t true or bigged up? Long term Reputational damage to your business? And to the employers personally? Dividing and losing the fan base and losing advertising revenue can be a long term commercial and financial hit? Distraction the team doesn’t need for morale and performances? Suspension till the cases are over, Hill as acting manager is the only sane option to manage and mitigate the situation. And do you know what? You’ve just illustrated my point perfectly. You talk about ignoring all the previous, that’s exactly what the courts are supposed to do, try on the evidence not on previous. You and the rest of the with hunt, ducking stool brigade are making that almost impossible. Do you want the case thrown out because his defence can prove he won’t get a fair trial? As I say, get a grip, FFS.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 16:15:48 GMT
Get a grip, Towner, you keep saying get a grip, and saying it repeatedly makes it less apparent in you!
Innocent until proven guilty This is for the court. It's a legal status. Legally, B***** remains innocent of choking and kicking his wife in the head, until he is proven guilty of this. Upon being found guilty, be becomes legally guilty. The facts of the case won't have changed, only his legal status.
Nobody is saying B***** should be imprisoned or face other punitive sanction until after his conviction.
Imagine for moment, the crime of being drunk and disorderly in a public place. I am certain that more of us have committed this offence than have been convicted of it. We are legally innocent, but that doesn't mean we are actually innocent, because it's a legal status, not a matter of fact.
Twenty years ago, I was drunk and disorderly in a public place. I am legally innocent of this offence, so I should not be punished until I am, which won't happen now that I never get drunk (or even go out in public much for that matter).
Innocent until proven guilty is a legal status, and doesn't make those that haven't yet been found guilty innocent or beyond my disapproval.
I know you understand this perfectly well, but when you pretend that I don't, it seems polite to explain it. Let's not waste any more time on it.
Having said that, 'proven guilty' by magistrates court specifically probably means something else (or nothing) for all I know.
A drunken duck is not a pretty sight.
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Post by The Concept on Jul 29, 2021 16:17:04 GMT
Here we go again. Accept the unacceptable or you aren't a real supporter. It's the people who haven't spoken out and who aren't taking a stand against this disgusting appointment that are harming the club. But of course, the bulk of responsibility sits with the owner. I’m not saying anything about accepting the unacceptable. I’ve merely stated that innocent until proven guilty is still the basis of English law. If B***** is found guilty I believe Wael has said he will be dismissed, at least that’s how I read his message. Whats wrong with that? As I have said, get a grip, FFS. Yes, quite, people are 'innocent until they are proven guilty'. So let's suspend JB until the court case has been heard. Because, as I mentioned before, while allegations have been raised, and someone has been prosecuted, suspending them from their job isn't saying you think they are guilty. Can you still not see that's rather silly to say 'innocent until proven guilty', when trying to defend not suspending someone from their job?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 29, 2021 16:21:46 GMT
100% agree, and am surprised that people like Bas think we will sacrifice our standards because a football club has won a couple of games. Not a chance. I'm with you on this. This is NOT the Bristol Rovers that I support. I had'nt considered the sincerity and seriousness of the decision to 'stay away' by some Gasheads. They may well completely mean it. You ever doubted me Basel? I meant it on February 22nd. The recent developments have emboldened my position. Basel - I respect your position, but I will never agree with it.
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
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Post by towngas on Jul 29, 2021 17:02:34 GMT
Get a grip, Towner, you keep saying get a grip, and saying it repeatedly makes it less apparent in you! Innocent until proven guiltyThis is for the court. It's a legal status. Legally, B***** remains innocent of choking and kicking his wife in the head, until he is proven guilty of this. Upon being found guilty, be becomes legally guilty. The facts of the case won't have changed, only his legal status. Nobody is saying B***** should be imprisoned or face other punitive sanction until after his conviction. Imagine for moment, the crime of being drunk and disorderly in a public place. I am certain that more of us have committed this offence than have been convicted of it. We are legally innocent, but that doesn't mean we are actually innocent, because it's a legal status, not a matter of fact. Twenty years ago, I was drunk and disorderly in a public place. I am legally innocent of this offence, so I should not be punished until I am, which won't happen now that I never get drunk (or even go out in public much for that matter). Innocent until proven guilty is a legal status, and doesn't make those that haven't yet been found guilty innocent or beyond my disapproval. I know you understand this perfectly well, but when you pretend that I don't, it seems polite to explain it. Let's not waste any more time on it. Having said that, 'proven guilty' by magistrates court specifically probably means something else (or nothing) for all I know. A drunken duck is not a pretty sight. You really are very funny. You must almost have twisted blood you’ve been tying yourself into knots over B*****. Innocent until proven guilty is his status, not what you decide you want it to mean. Get a grip is the best advise I can give you. Oh, and I’ve bought my Mansfield tickets so I can go and support the club on the opening day, and I’ve renewed our ST’s. I expect you disapprove of that as well.
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