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Post by Bamber Gashead on Jan 23, 2021 20:51:42 GMT
That's cheating. You can't leave out Garners results from the first period of his mismanagement when comparing with Tisdale's. Yep.BGs showing with a squad that was challenging for promotion was truly pathetic. True. It took Garner 14 games to get that first victory. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 20:56:14 GMT
Well, this isn't what anybody would have expected. Garner obviously had to go, however, 13 games is more than long enough to have a look, see what's wrong and sort basics out. L1 isn't exactly a tactical master class, it's pretty basic stuff, so we should see progress in the first quarter of a season. Nope, we've actually got worse under Tisdale. Garner's last 13 matches, P13 W5 D3 L5 F17 A23. Tisdale first 13, this includes a Gimme against a park team which we won 6-0, P13 W4 D0 L9 F20 A20. Garner had a fully fit squad to choose from. A squad he assembled that contained only three strikers. Tisdale has encountered significant injuries to Jaakkola, Daly, Nicholson, Oztumer and now Upson - all of whom would be in the first XI. Daly has been out since 29 Nov; Jaakkola since 8 Dec; Nicholson & Oztumer since we beat Blackpool on 2nd Jan - which is the last time we won. If you picture a starting XI that looks like this: Jaakola, Leahy, Kilgour, Ehmer, Williams, Upson, Westbrooke / Grant, McCormick, Oztumer, Nicholson, Hanlan / Daly - suddenly it doesn't look quite as bad? Looks like a lightweight L2 squad to me. |
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alanrg
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 100 
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Post by alanrg on Jan 23, 2021 21:09:51 GMT
Oztumer played in the Fa Cup tie with Sheffield United on 9th January
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Post by toteend3 on Jan 23, 2021 21:54:41 GMT
Garner had a fully fit squad to choose from. A squad he assembled that contained only three strikers. Tisdale has encountered significant injuries to Jaakkola, Daly, Nicholson, Oztumer and now Upson - all of whom would be in the first XI. Daly has been out since 29 Nov; Jaakkola since 8 Dec; Nicholson & Oztumer since we beat Blackpool on 2nd Jan - which is the last time we won. If you picture a starting XI that looks like this: Jaakola, Leahy, Kilgour, Ehmer, Williams, Upson, Westbrooke / Grant, McCormick, Oztumer, Nicholson, Hanlan / Daly - suddenly it doesn't look quite as bad? Looks like a lightweight L2 squad to me. Now you just being silly! |
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,565
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Post by harrybuckle on Jan 24, 2021 3:43:26 GMT
Young strikers Kerion Phillips and Harry Warwick should be brought into the squad after the embarrassing easy stoppage time missed header by Ayunga.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Jan 24, 2021 6:23:46 GMT
I think it was better under Garner. It was on the deck, it was pass and move. We used width better. We were better this season under Garner after the break from last season. The team and tactic today wouldn’t have got the win at Lincoln or Shrewsbury Garner did. Garner set them out more offensively, Tisdale is woefully negative. Garner was sacked with the claim he lacked game management, but truth is three things undermined him. We were rubbish under him last season. Cocko left the team in a false position with false expectations so high in the table. This seasons squad is struggling to compete in L1 under any manager on earth, not just two particular ones.
This team line up lacked balance. All those defenders also Og and grant? Why not one of those 2 with a deep lying playmaker? When the new right back came on and the 4 centre backs stayed on, I can only presume Baldwin was pushed into midfield. Is that good game management? If you play so many defensive minded players they will play to type, such as it’s not instinctive for them to make runs, they don’t have the skill set or mentality for forward play.
and the tactic was long ball. It didn’t work.
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Post by carlts2020 on Jan 24, 2021 9:24:55 GMT
I think it was better under Garner. It was on the deck, it was pass and move. We used width better. We were better this season under Garner after the break from last season. The team and tactic today wouldn’t have got the win at Lincoln or Shrewsbury Garner did. Garner set them out more offensively, Tisdale is woefully negative. Garner was sacked with the claim he lacked game management, but truth is three things undermined him. We were rubbish under him last season. Cocko left the team in a false position with false expectations so high in the table. This seasons squad is struggling to compete in L1 under any manager on earth, not just two particular ones. This team line up lacked balance. All those defenders also Og and grant? Why not one of those 2 with a deep lying playmaker? When the new right back came on and the 4 centre backs stayed on, I can only presume Baldwin was pushed into midfield. Is that good game management? If you play so many defensive minded players they will play to type, such as it’s not instinctive for them to make runs, they don’t have the skill set or mentality for forward play. and the tactic was long ball. It didn’t work. I completely agree with this post. I’ve read a lot of posts about 4 left backs and unbalanced squads and constant referring back to last season. However, Garner came in with a team high in the league because the manager had left and the owner wanted young players, passing football and resell value. There was no back room staff, analysts or nutritionists. Rumours are there was no staff at the ground to make food for the players in his first few weeks and they regularly trained in a sports hall at short notice due to bad weather. Garners 3rd game in charge, a 3-1 defeat to MK away and there were gas heads shouting “eff off Garner” as he came to thank them for the support. What is that about?! Furthermore, he was backed to bring in his own Squad and develop from there. Average age was reduced, footballing young players bought in and we had a steady start. Bearing in mind we played 7 of the top teams in the league (hull, Lincoln, Doncaster, Peterborough etc). Back to the squad. Garner plays 3 centre halves - we have 5 (Ehmer, Baldwin, Kilgour, harries, Kelly). Garner plays wing backs - we had two on each side (little, Hare and Koiki, Dave T - Leahy a left back was surplus to requirements / back up) Garner plays one up front - we had Hanlan, Ayunga, Daly and Walker (young but was that not his remit?) Garner plays a DCM - upson and grant Garner plays a playmaker (westbrooke / McCormick / ozzy) Garner plays a number 10 / 2 nr 10s (Nicholson, ozzy, McCormick, Daly) dependent on the team. There’s so much false news about 4 left backs, no strikers and position / results under garner. We bought in a 39 year old with an awful training set up, no DofF and fans turned on him within 3 games. Despite that we were in 18th place when he left, 40% win rate from his last 10 games. Losing only 1 out of 7 in a October and all of his stats were improving abs we were still in the FA Cup and Trophy. In fact he was unbeaten against all teams below 10th this season with some very winnable games coming up. A ridiculous decision to sack him that makes for an unsustainable yo yo football club. |
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,600
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 24, 2021 9:32:33 GMT
Well, this isn't what anybody would have expected. Garner obviously had to go, however, 13 games is more than long enough to have a look, see what's wrong and sort basics out. L1 isn't exactly a tactical master class, it's pretty basic stuff, so we should see progress in the first quarter of a season. Nope, we've actually got worse under Tisdale. Garner's last 13 matches, P13 W5 D3 L5 F17 A23. Tisdale first 13, this includes a Gimme against a park team which we won 6-0, P13 W4 D0 L9 F20 A20. Garner had a fully fit squad to choose from. A squad he assembled that contained only three strikers. Tisdale has encountered significant injuries to Jaakkola, Daly, Nicholson, Oztumer and now Upson - all of whom would be in the first XI. Daly has been out since 29 Nov; Jaakkola since 8 Dec; Nicholson & Oztumer since we beat Blackpool on 2nd Jan - which is the last time we won. If you picture a starting XI that looks like this: Jaakola, Leahy, Kilgour, Ehmer, Williams, Upson, Westbrooke / Grant, McCormick, Oztumer, Nicholson, Hanlan / Daly - suddenly it doesn't look quite as bad? Not sure about Upson. But 100% agree that Baldwin & Harries should not be starting. Both are a total liability. They either try and hoof it long to an isolated Hanlan, or try and play themselves out of trouble and invariably gift it to the opposition. (In their defence yesterday there was rarely anyone to actually pass it to in mid-field. But they do it every game). Passage of play yesterday where Baldwin had the ball just outside the box, stumbled, went sideways and passed it straight to an Oxford player. They aren't very good at defending. The Oxford commentary were laughing at us. "We press high and we love it when teams try and play out of defence because we know we can pick them off". We were lucky at 2-0. We're away to Peterborough Tuesday. We could get an absolute hammering if we play like we have done for the last 3 league games. If Oztumer, Daly and Nicholson are all still out... sadly I don't think it matters what starting XI we pick at the moment. |
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Post by carlts2020 on Jan 24, 2021 9:41:52 GMT
Garner had a fully fit squad to choose from. A squad he assembled that contained only three strikers. Tisdale has encountered significant injuries to Jaakkola, Daly, Nicholson, Oztumer and now Upson - all of whom would be in the first XI. Daly has been out since 29 Nov; Jaakkola since 8 Dec; Nicholson & Oztumer since we beat Blackpool on 2nd Jan - which is the last time we won. If you picture a starting XI that looks like this: Jaakola, Leahy, Kilgour, Ehmer, Williams, Upson, Westbrooke / Grant, McCormick, Oztumer, Nicholson, Hanlan / Daly - suddenly it doesn't look quite as bad? Not sure about Upson. But 100% agree that Baldwin & Harries should not be starting. Both are a total liability. They either try and hoof it long to an isolated Hanlan, or try and play themselves out of trouble and invariably gift it to the opposition. (In their defence yesterday there was rarely anyone to actually pass it to in mid-field. But they do it every game). Passage of play yesterday where Baldwin had the ball just outside the box, stumbled, went sideways and passed it straight to an Oxford player. They aren't very good at defending. The Oxford commentary were laughing at us. "We press high and we love it when teams try and play out of defence because we know we can pick them off". We were lucky at 2-0. We're away to Peterborough Tuesday. We could get an absolute hammering if we play like we have done for the last 3 league games. If Oztumer, Daly and Nicholson are all still out... sadly I don't think it matters what starting XI we pick at the moment. PT bought injuries on himself. We were 4-0 up against Darlington when Daly got injured and Anssi played against Orient in the trophy! Madness, utter madness. Also did Garner not have injuries to deal with? No Ayunga, No Rodman, Little, Jakkola on international duty (remember JVS flap for fleet woods first goal in garners last game?) |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 10:56:40 GMT
I think it was better under Garner. It was on the deck, it was pass and move. We used width better. We were better this season under Garner after the break from last season. The team and tactic today wouldn’t have got the win at Lincoln or Shrewsbury Garner did. Garner set them out more offensively, Tisdale is woefully negative. Garner was sacked with the claim he lacked game management, but truth is three things undermined him. We were rubbish under him last season. Cocko left the team in a false position with false expectations so high in the table. This seasons squad is struggling to compete in L1 under any manager on earth, not just two particular ones. This team line up lacked balance. All those defenders also Og and grant? Why not one of those 2 with a deep lying playmaker? When the new right back came on and the 4 centre backs stayed on, I can only presume Baldwin was pushed into midfield. Is that good game management? If you play so many defensive minded players they will play to type, such as it’s not instinctive for them to make runs, they don’t have the skill set or mentality for forward play. and the tactic was long ball. It didn’t work. I completely agree with this post. I’ve read a lot of posts about 4 left backs and unbalanced squads and constant referring back to last season. However, Garner came in with a team high in the league because the manager had left and the owner wanted young players, passing football and resell value. There was no back room staff, analysts or nutritionists. Rumours are there was no staff at the ground to make food for the players in his first few weeks and they regularly trained in a sports hall at short notice due to bad weather. Garners 3rd game in charge, a 3-1 defeat to MK away and there were gas heads shouting “eff off Garner” as he came to thank them for the support. What is that about?! Furthermore, he was backed to bring in his own Squad and develop from there. Average age was reduced, footballing young players bought in and we had a steady start. Bearing in mind we played 7 of the top teams in the league (hull, Lincoln, Doncaster, Peterborough etc). Back to the squad. Garner plays 3 centre halves - we have 5 (Ehmer, Baldwin, Kilgour, harries, Kelly). Garner plays wing backs - we had two on each side (little, Hare and Koiki, Dave T - Leahy a left back was surplus to requirements / back up) Garner plays one up front - we had Hanlan, Ayunga, Daly and Walker (young but was that not his remit?) Garner plays a DCM - upson and grant Garner plays a playmaker (westbrooke / McCormick / ozzy) Garner plays a number 10 / 2 nr 10s (Nicholson, ozzy, McCormick, Daly) dependent on the team. There’s so much false news about 4 left backs, no strikers and position / results under garner. We bought in a 39 year old with an awful training set up, no DofF and fans turned on him within 3 games. Despite that we were in 18th place when he left, 40% win rate from his last 10 games. Losing only 1 out of 7 in a October and all of his stats were improving abs we were still in the FA Cup and Trophy. In fact he was unbeaten against all teams below 10th this season with some very winnable games coming up. A ridiculous decision to sack him that makes for an unsustainable yo yo football club. Some interesting use of logic there to say the least. So if I’ve understood this right you are arguing that a team that was noted for having numerous shots on goal per game and was winning games and in 3rd was in a false position, however a team that was averaging about 3 shots per game would have picked up enough points to stay up if the manager had been allowed to carry on his reign? Ok. |
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Post by carlts2020 on Jan 24, 2021 11:06:57 GMT
I completely agree with this post. I’ve read a lot of posts about 4 left backs and unbalanced squads and constant referring back to last season. However, Garner came in with a team high in the league because the manager had left and the owner wanted young players, passing football and resell value. There was no back room staff, analysts or nutritionists. Rumours are there was no staff at the ground to make food for the players in his first few weeks and they regularly trained in a sports hall at short notice due to bad weather. Garners 3rd game in charge, a 3-1 defeat to MK away and there were gas heads shouting “eff off Garner” as he came to thank them for the support. What is that about?! Furthermore, he was backed to bring in his own Squad and develop from there. Average age was reduced, footballing young players bought in and we had a steady start. Bearing in mind we played 7 of the top teams in the league (hull, Lincoln, Doncaster, Peterborough etc). Back to the squad. Garner plays 3 centre halves - we have 5 (Ehmer, Baldwin, Kilgour, harries, Kelly). Garner plays wing backs - we had two on each side (little, Hare and Koiki, Dave T - Leahy a left back was surplus to requirements / back up) Garner plays one up front - we had Hanlan, Ayunga, Daly and Walker (young but was that not his remit?) Garner plays a DCM - upson and grant Garner plays a playmaker (westbrooke / McCormick / ozzy) Garner plays a number 10 / 2 nr 10s (Nicholson, ozzy, McCormick, Daly) dependent on the team. There’s so much false news about 4 left backs, no strikers and position / results under garner. We bought in a 39 year old with an awful training set up, no DofF and fans turned on him within 3 games. Despite that we were in 18th place when he left, 40% win rate from his last 10 games. Losing only 1 out of 7 in a October and all of his stats were improving abs we were still in the FA Cup and Trophy. In fact he was unbeaten against all teams below 10th this season with some very winnable games coming up. A ridiculous decision to sack him that makes for an unsustainable yo yo football club. Some interesting use of logic there to say the least. So if I’ve understood this right you are arguing that a team that was noted for having numerous shots on goal per game and was winning games and in 3rd was in a false position, however a team that was averaging about 3 shots per game would have picked up enough points to stay up if the manager had been allowed to carry on his reign? Ok. Last 3 games we average 3 shots on target per game whilst averaging 2 conceded in the same games. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 11:35:31 GMT
Some interesting use of logic there to say the least. So if I’ve understood this right you are arguing that a team that was noted for having numerous shots on goal per game and was winning games and in 3rd was in a false position, however a team that was averaging about 3 shots per game would have picked up enough points to stay up if the manager had been allowed to carry on his reign? Ok. Last 3 games we average 3 shots on target per game whilst averaging 2 conceded in the same games. Edit: misread. I assume you are referring to Tisdale’s last three games- not sure what point you are trying to make as I was talking about your use of logic by comparing Coughlan and Garner’s teams. Using Tisdale’s stats to make Garner look better is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the  , it’s desperate stuff. And seeing as you love to compare how about we compare Garner’s record win ratio with Coughlan’s overall? That makes Garner look even more of an abject failure than he does on his own merits. We had a winning team and Garner dismantled it in epic fashion. The guy couldn’t manage his way out of a wet paper bag. What Tisdale does has no bearing on that |
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Post by carlts2020 on Jan 24, 2021 11:49:23 GMT
Last 3 games we average 3 shots on target per game whilst averaging 2 conceded in the same games. Edit: misread. I assume you are referring to Tisdale’s last three games- not sure what point you are trying to make as I was talking about your use of logic by comparing Coughlan and Garner’s teams. Using Tisdale’s stats to make Garner look better is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the , it’s desperate stuff. And seeing as you love to compare how about we compare Garner’s record win ratio with Coughlan’s overall? That makes Garner look even more of an abject failure than he does on his own merits. We had a winning team and Garner dismantled it in epic fashion. The guy couldn’t manage his way out of a wet paper bag. What Tisdale does has no bearing on that a He actually played pretty much the same team As GC in his first season. This summer BG and TW sold / released older players and bought young players. The change in results came from trying to play better football with GCs team |
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jan 24, 2021 11:56:51 GMT
Last 3 games we average 3 shots on target per game whilst averaging 2 conceded in the same games. Edit: misread. I assume you are referring to Tisdale’s last three games- not sure what point you are trying to make as I was talking about your use of logic by comparing Coughlan and Garner’s teams. Using Tisdale’s stats to make Garner look better is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the , it’s desperate stuff. And seeing as you love to compare how about we compare Garner’s record win ratio with Coughlan’s overall? That makes Garner look even more of an abject failure than he does on his own merits. We had a winning team and Garner dismantled it in epic fashion. The guy couldn’t manage his way out of a wet paper bag. What Tisdale does has no bearing on that Agreed - I'd also like to know where the magical passing, positive, progressive football under Garner was? It certainly didn't relate to anything I watched which amounted to a shapeless mess.
Tisdale inherited a complete car crash with no pattern of play, no solidity and no spine. Plus a bloated squad full of players who have not shown much evidence of being up to it at this level. There were some signs of small progress before the injury bug took out 3 of our only effective attacking players. Now we are in a hole again because we have a bizarre squad with no balance. Garner was by some distance the worst manager I have ever seen at Rovers (and I include Ray Graydon in that!) - I've seen managers struggle to put a squad together or establish a pattern play or fail to motivate a struggling and fading squad. I've never seen someone comprehensively dismantle a stable and relatively successful side like that before. It's baffling that anyone could defend him.
Despite the obvious challenges of the crap he has inherited, it's fair that the jury remains out on Tisdale but the jury is very much in on Garner - the guy was a disaster.
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Post by rovers69 on Jan 24, 2021 12:06:01 GMT
Both are a disaster-Kneejerk Decision to sack BG-then another kneejerk decision to bring in PT. We let goals in and cant score so only one way this will end. Basement Football next season. Hopefully we will be back to watch after a couple of beers in the Wellington. Remember those days.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Jan 24, 2021 12:07:46 GMT
Both are a disaster-Kneejerk Decision to sack BG-then another kneejerk decision to bring in PT. We let goals in and cant score so only one way this will end. Basement Football next season. Hopefully we will be back to watch after a couple of beers in the Wellington. Remember those days. "Kneejerk" getting rid of Garner? His record was appalling. An unmitigated disaster. |
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Post by rovers69 on Jan 24, 2021 12:10:52 GMT
So is PT's neither good enough-
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 25, 2021 15:07:19 GMT
An apology won’t achieve anything though will it ? What Wael needs to do is to find a way out of the mess he has created. For his sake and for Rovers’ sake. No, it wouldn't in itself have any tangible effect on our position, but it would demonstrate that he understood that he's at least in part responsible for the complete mess that's been created. He,very much, loves the blue tinted spectacle wearers who are still thanking him for saving the club. I see some of the comments, on Twitter and Facebook and despair. Came in and had a team and manager who has fight and passion in the shirt and tore it up. Totally threw away the best forward momentum I have experienced in my time following rovers and more than trebled the debts yet has people believing we are now debt free, whilst the charge against the ground looms over us. This is now serious and the buck stops with him. He ruined the unity that took so long to get back and has us in a worse position that I think we have ever been in. Regardless of this virus, the club was already in crisis. As swissgas says, it really is time he put this right, that is if he has not already burned too many bridges. I feel empathy and sympathy with and for Tisdale. We have, in essence, a development team that is playing as our match day squad. He put us back to the bad old days, days I had hoped we would never see again |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 15:22:26 GMT
No, it wouldn't in itself have any tangible effect on our position, but it would demonstrate that he understood that he's at least in part responsible for the complete mess that's been created. He,very much, loves the blue tinted spectacle wearers who are still thanking him for saving the club. I see some of the comments, on Twitter and Facebook and despair. Came in and had a team and manager who has fight and passion in the shirt and tore it up. Totally threw away the best forward momentum I have experienced in my time following rovers and more than trebled the debts yet has people believing we are now debt free, whilst the charge against the ground looms over us. This is now serious and the buck stops with him. He ruined the unity that took so long to get back and has us in a worse position that I think we have ever been in. Regardless of this virus, the club was already in crisis. As swissgas says, it really is time he put this right, that is if he has not already burned too many bridges. I feel empathy and sympathy with and for Tisdale. We have, in essence, a development team that is playing as our match day squad. He put us back to the bad old days, days I had hoped we would never see again But KP, we painted the bar and have flat screen TVs. (Babestation on special occasions only) Can't believe how ungrateful you are. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 15:56:14 GMT
He,very much, loves the blue tinted spectacle wearers who are still thanking him for saving the club. I see some of the comments, on Twitter and Facebook and despair. Came in and had a team and manager who has fight and passion in the shirt and tore it up. Totally threw away the best forward momentum I have experienced in my time following rovers and more than trebled the debts yet has people believing we are now debt free, whilst the charge against the ground looms over us. This is now serious and the buck stops with him. He ruined the unity that took so long to get back and has us in a worse position that I think we have ever been in. Regardless of this virus, the club was already in crisis. As swissgas says, it really is time he put this right, that is if he has not already burned too many bridges. I feel empathy and sympathy with and for Tisdale. We have, in essence, a development team that is playing as our match day squad. He put us back to the bad old days, days I had hoped we would never see again But KP, we painted the bar and have flat screen TVs. (Babestation on special occasions only) Can't believe how ungrateful you are. And Blue Passports.......whoops sorry, wrong subject. |
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, it’s desperate stuff. And seeing as you love to compare how about we compare Garner’s record win ratio with Coughlan’s overall? That makes Garner look even more of an abject failure than he does on his own merits. We had a winning team and Garner dismantled it in epic fashion. The guy couldn’t manage his way out of a wet paper bag. What Tisdale does has no bearing on that
