harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,578
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Post by harrybuckle on Nov 21, 2018 14:45:04 GMT
So wael turns up in the uk expecting everyone to fall at his feet and show deference to his mighty and obvious wealth? I mean this was his first ever journey outside jordan and apart from the above he also noticed it was very cold and there were no camels to be seen anywhere! "what a strange place" thought wael,"i will just have to hide away from all these people who dont know there place in society" is this racism or a hate crime ? Avon & Somerset's finest have been notified and expect a knock on your door about midnight ….also correction there should read their.
Just as a point of truth he was schooled in London as a teenager and started following Chelsea FC and became a season ticket holder for many years before becoming in FIFA and Women's football.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2018 17:14:57 GMT
Steve Hamer said there is a difference between business culture in Jordan and that in Britain and I think he is correct. I am not saying that one way is right and the other way is wrong but simply putting forward the proposition that Dwane Sports misjudged the situation because in their business culture the perception of strength and power is more likely to change a negotiating position than it is in British business culture. I do know for a fact that in June 2016 Dwane Sports were trying to revamp the deal with UWE so they must have purchased the club knowing they would have to renegotiate and felt confident they had the means to persuade UWE to make concessions. I was as pleased as anyone when the takeover was announced and, like many fans, wrote to Wael to offer best wishes. Some things, such as the way Michael Cunnah, Lee Atkins and Will Dubey were paraded, made me uneasy but even when those three disappeared virtually without trace I didn't comment. It was not until over twelve months after the takeover, when the accounts were published, that I commented negatively about the funding being 100% through interest bearing debt because I hold strong opinions about that. In June 2017 when the charge was registered against the Mem I expressed concern because this is not a normal thing for a 92% controlling shareholder to do and the excuse Wael gave was extremely lame. Following on from this I have been critical of the way Wael has conducted himself and again this may be rooted in the business culture difference. I realize I am treading a fine line here but I do think that in a country where wealth and a world class private education is restricted to very few people there may be a tendency for that elite few to expect others to believe them purely out of a sense of deference and because of this they may feel no obligation to substantiate what they are saying. Many fans on both forums seem mystified by what Dwane Sports are doing and why so I am just putting forward a possible explanation. The "sense of deference to the wealthy" stuff as a reason for the lack of communication is just a theory and nothing more. A guess in fact amongst a sea of guesswork here and on gaschat. Instead of denigrating what anyone says about the board why dont you come out wI think some facts to prove them wrong
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Nov 21, 2018 17:47:18 GMT
Steve Hamer responded in writing to me and said that the ALQs were surprised by the level of scrutiny by fans in business affairs.
It would be wrong to say that there are not cultural differences that affect the modus operandi of business.
Swiss has offered an opinion on attitudes pertaining to wealth: an opinion well articulated.
This is a Forum that is devised for the exchange of opinions: silly and serious ones.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2018 17:54:50 GMT
So wael turns up in the uk expecting everyone to fall at his feet and show deference to his mighty and obvious wealth? I mean this was his first ever journey outside jordan and apart from the above he also noticed it was very cold and there were no camels to be seen anywhere! "what a strange place" thought wael,"i will just have to hide away from all these people who dont know there place in society" is this racism or a hate crime ? Avon & Somerset's finest have been notified and expect a knock on your door about midnight ….also correction there should read their.
Just as a point of truth he was schooled in London as a teenager and started following Chelsea FC and became a season ticket holder for many years before becoming in FIFA and Women's football.
What you obviously dont realise is that i was spoofing swissgas and his suggestion that Uwe were unwilling to give way and be deferential to our wealthy owners. Also i know all the other drivel about schooling etc.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2018 17:59:16 GMT
The "sense of deference to the wealthy" stuff as a reason for the lack of communication is just a theory and nothing more. A guess in fact amongst a sea of guesswork here and on gaschat. Instead of denigrating what anyone says about the board why dont you come out wI think some facts to prove them wrong You want me to prove the fiction and guesswork put out by numerous posters wrong? Which story is the correct one then? i mean they cant all be right.
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vaughan
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,237
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Post by vaughan on Nov 21, 2018 18:12:01 GMT
I mentioned the Hearts scheme before. As first published on the other Forum, crowd funding is now established. See www.tifosy.comNorwich raised £5m for training ground. #boredofwaiting
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Post by a more piratey game on Nov 21, 2018 19:51:55 GMT
spreading another rumour....paulrandallstash at the other place just now;
This, from a rovers employee on the coach to Blackpool, talking to a member of my family yesterday, whether there's any truth in it,
who knows ?
1:Wael won't sign the takeover papers,wants to retain a small percentage.
2:The coach company are owed thousands and were refusing to take brfc to Blackpool,only agreeing at the last minute.
3:The brewery are also owed a large amount of money.
4:the current owners would rather us go into liquidation 😡
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Post by droitwichgas on Nov 21, 2018 22:10:18 GMT
Steve Hamer responded in writing to me and said that the ALQs were surprised by the level of scrutiny by fans in business affairs. It would be wrong to say that there are not cultural differences that affect the modus operandi of business. Swiss has offered an opinion on attitudes pertaining to wealth: an opinion well articulated. This is a Forum that is devised for the exchange of opinions: silly and serious ones. Hasn't Wael spent most of his business career in England running the AJIB branch in London, surely he must have know how things work in the business world in England?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2018 22:13:39 GMT
I mentioned the Hearts scheme before. As first published on the other Forum, crowd funding is now established. See www.tifosy.comNorwich raised £5m for training ground. #boredofwaitingWell get on and do something instead of just pretending that you are going to then....
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 2:58:48 GMT
Do you have any direct dealings with them that suggest that this "Jordanian Way" is actually true? Has anyone from UWE said that they felt that they were being bullied? Whatever they AlQadi's do, you always seem to have a negative spin. In the last couple of days, a rumour emerged that a possible new owner had tried to negotiate with UWE and met resistance. Were they also trying to negotiate in the "Jordanian way"? Steve Hamer said there is a difference between business culture in Jordan and that in Britain and I think he is correct. I am not saying that one way is right and the other way is wrong but simply putting forward the proposition that Dwane Sports misjudged the situation because in their business culture the perception of strength and power is more likely to change a negotiating position than it is in British business culture. I do know for a fact that in June 2016 Dwane Sports were trying to revamp the deal with UWE so they must have purchased the club knowing they would have to renegotiate and felt confident they had the means to persuade UWE to make concessions.
I was as pleased as anyone when the takeover was announced and, like many fans, wrote to Wael to offer best wishes. Some things, such as the way Michael Cunnah, Lee Atkins and Will Dubey were paraded, made me uneasy but even when those three disappeared virtually without trace I didn't comment. It was not until over twelve months after the takeover, when the accounts were published, that I commented negatively about the funding being 100% through interest bearing debt because I hold strong opinions about that. In June 2017 when the charge was registered against the Mem I expressed concern because this is not a normal thing for a 92% controlling shareholder to do and the excuse Wael gave was extremely lame. Following on from this I have been critical of the way Wael has conducted himself and again this may be rooted in the business culture difference. I realize I am treading a fine line here but I do think that in a country where wealth and a world class private education is restricted to very few people there may be a tendency for that elite few to expect others to believe them purely out of a sense of deference and because of this they may feel no obligation to substantiate what they are saying. Many fans on both forums seem mystified by what Dwane Sports are doing and why so I am just putting forward a possible explanation. Interesting...I notice a poster on (G)asschat was recently adamant that they had tried to change the deal with UWE and the feasibility study was performed on the updated Al Qadi plans (which included a hotel IIRC). But can I just ask whether you believe that they genuinely intended to build the UWE (genuine question)? I subscribe to the school of thought that they allowed the opportunity to wither on the vine as I just can't reconcile an intent to buy Gillingham with suddenly rocking up at the Gas with an intent to build a 30 million pound stadium- it just isn't congruent and all that we have seen so far suggests to me that the intent was mainly to invest in a football club for a modest amount and give Wael a position of some standing in English football circles (which would be exactly what buying Gillingham would have amounted to). As such they went through the motions with the UWE deal leading to farce like "if only they had gone to Jordan", HoT allegedly sitting on Hani's desk etc. I seem to recall something about the UWE looking for a bond from the Al Qadi's as proof that they had funds to complete the build. In addition you have their surprise at their 2 million budget for a training ground not being anywhere near enough. Could they really finance a 30 million stadium yet only afford a 2 million training ground? It all just doesn't add up, for me.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,619
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 22, 2018 10:48:10 GMT
Fear and greed my friend. If Dwane Sports did not have the appropriate level of detail on the UWE part of the deal, then they should not have bought BRFC. However they were worried some-one else would beat them to the deal (fear). They thought that there was a chance to make some decent money with UWE (greed). So they took a punt. (BTW - If they took absolutely everything that Nick Higgs said at face-value, then more fool them). Here is how they (sounds like Wael) justified taking a punt to 'the family'. They are bankers. Even if the UWE deal doesn't come off, the asset value of the Memorial Stadium is more than the price paid for BRFC. So it's a no-brainer, isn't it? 1. Best case scenario: UWE 'works' and a shiny new Stadium is delivered. This makes money. Wael is a hero. Everyone is happy. Hooray! :-) 2. Worst case scenario: Dwane Sports sell the Mem for it's true value and get out flat on the deal. BRFC are homeless. Gasheads are unhappy. Wael leaves with his tail between his legs and his reputation in tatters. Boo :-( 3. Hopeful scenario: Sell BRFC (hopefully at a profit) to someone who just might deliver a new stadium. Wael could even stay on the Board. Gasheads and Wael are happy. Hooray! :-) 4. Stagnation scenario: Dwane Sports don't find a buyer. They don't take option 2. But they stop putting any money into BRFC as they don't want debt to exceed asset value. The club is strangled. Dwane Sports are left with a large nonperforming asset. We drop down the leagues in an increasingly decrepit stadium. Gasheads and Wael are not happy. Boo :-( 5. ok scenario; They keep improving the club and its facilities,they pay off any losses over and above the value of the mem,in other words they simply do what the rest of the football world is doing. They seek out investment partners to finance a new ground. What sort of percentage of likelihood would you now give option 5? Serious question. Not having a dig. UTG. Here's mine: Option 1: 0.1% Option 2: 30% Option 3: 50% Option 4: 19% Option 5: 0.9%
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 11:12:46 GMT
5. ok scenario; They keep improving the club and its facilities,they pay off any losses over and above the value of the mem,in other words they simply do what the rest of the football world is doing. They seek out investment partners to finance a new ground. What sort of percentage of likelihood would you now give option 5? Serious question. Not having a dig. UTG. Here's mine: Option 1: 0.1% Option 2: 30% Option 3: 50% Option 4: 19% Option 5: 0.9% Who knows? whats the point of me joining in the guessing game. All we know is that they havnt delivered the ground or even the training ground. But as i have already said they have clearly spent more on the facilities than the previous owners.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 11:31:02 GMT
Why are the owners forking out £2m a year on BRFC if they are not at all interested in the club?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 22, 2018 13:00:19 GMT
Why are the owners forking out £2m a year on BRFC if they are not at all interested in the club? They are interested in the Club. Just not from a 'footballing' perspective. Current annual losses are around £700k a year (Oldie had an update on this recently). I guess the simple answer to your question is that they are not "forking out" £700k pa. The money that has been 'ploughed' into the Club is all effectively loans from Dwane Sports. That's how it appear on the balance sheet. We've been told they won't call in the loans. Wael said that - so it must be true - right? When (please God) they sell... they would hope to get: What they paid for the Club + any money they have 'invested' in the Club. Above that - is all clear profit. (Remember Dwane Sports have already taken money out of the Club to the tune of 6% per year loan to BRFC. I understand that that's what it says in the accounts - ref swissgas). Question: Why have they spent so much money on senior non-playing management? My answer: To give the veneer of a professional organisation that would be attractive to an investor. Question: How can they possibly justify spending £250k on a London office? My answer: To give a safe place away from Bristol to negotiate the sale of BRFC. UTG.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 23:45:58 GMT
Why are the owners forking out £2m a year on BRFC if they are not at all interested in the club? They are interested in the Club. Just not from a 'footballing' perspective. Current annual losses are around £700k a year (Oldie had an update on this recently). I guess the simple answer to your question is that they are not "forking out" £700k pa. The money that has been 'ploughed' into the Club is all effectively loans from Dwane Sports. That's how it appear on the balance sheet. We've been told they won't call in the loans. Wael said that - so it must be true - right? When (please God) they sell... they would hope to get: What they paid for the Club + any money they have 'invested' in the Club. Above that - is all clear profit. (Remember Dwane Sports have already taken money out of the Club to the tune of 6% per year loan to BRFC. I understand that that's what it says in the accounts - ref swissgas). Question: Why have they spent so much money on senior non-playing management? My answer: To give the veneer of a professional organisation that would be attractive to an investor. Question: How can they possibly justify spending £250k on a London office? My answer: To give a safe place away from Bristol to negotiate the sale of BRFC. UTG. I think wael has explained in the past how the interest to dwayne has not been taken. Im probably getting out of my depth here but it strikes me that the dwayne sports arrangement is far better than the high interest external loan taken out by higgs. Regarding the questions it remains to be seen if the CEO is an effective appointment but if yeovil and plymouth as well as other similar clubs employ one why not us? With the london office i have no idea. You want new owners but i want better owners. The current regime has done much more at the club than the last shower imo.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 23, 2018 11:34:08 GMT
They are interested in the Club. Just not from a 'footballing' perspective. Current annual losses are around £700k a year (Oldie had an update on this recently). I guess the simple answer to your question is that they are not "forking out" £700k pa. The money that has been 'ploughed' into the Club is all effectively loans from Dwane Sports. That's how it appear on the balance sheet. We've been told they won't call in the loans. Wael said that - so it must be true - right? When (please God) they sell... they would hope to get: What they paid for the Club + any money they have 'invested' in the Club. Above that - is all clear profit. (Remember Dwane Sports have already taken money out of the Club to the tune of 6% per year loan to BRFC. I understand that that's what it says in the accounts - ref swissgas). Question: Why have they spent so much money on senior non-playing management? My answer: To give the veneer of a professional organisation that would be attractive to an investor. Question: How can they possibly justify spending £250k on a London office? My answer: To give a safe place away from Bristol to negotiate the sale of BRFC. UTG. I think wael has explained in the past how the interest to dwayne has not been taken. Im probably getting out of my depth here but it strikes me that the dwayne sports arrangement is far better than the high interest external loan taken out by higgs. Regarding the questions it remains to be seen if the CEO is an effective appointment but if yeovil and plymouth as well as other similar clubs employ one why not us? With the london office i have no idea. You want new owners but i want better owners. The current regime has done much more at the club than the last shower imo. Wael was VERY wooly around the loan charges that appear in the accounts. (I paraphrase) "It's just an inter-company arrangement and you wouldn't understand it - nothing to worry about". "If" they sell - they will claim that interest. It's a debt. Debt has to be paid back. "If" they stay - then the loan can't be called in unless they sell the Mem (as this is BRFC's only asset). I still think this is unlikely, but it is an option open to these Bankers. Should push come to shove in the Al-Qadi household and Wael gets out-voted 3-1 are we are right royally f*cked. Don't disagree with your last statement at all. We all want what's best for Bristol Rovers FC. The prospect of Dwane Sports staying in control scares me.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Nov 23, 2018 13:56:35 GMT
Makes you wonder if they are dropping fake bits to people to see which stories get out to see who they can trust? Good way to find a leak if not. Also acts fantastically at taking the limelight away from the players and gaffer. Hmmm! That is ALWAYS a possibility. I noticed WAQ actually mentioned the result & disappointing reaction. What does he expect ? Very disappointed in how he and the owners are persona non gratis
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Nov 23, 2018 13:58:53 GMT
it might be unrealistic, just wondering whether any sale by The Al-Qadi's is factoring in 29 acres of land at The Colony site especially if it is Southampton, Hampshire, Liverpool, Reading, Isle of Man Builders who are apparently buying us this week Maybe it's a competitive bid situation between all these potential buyers :-) Land that goes from agricultural use to future residential development in the green belt... increase in value goes from roughly £10,000 an acre to £1,000,000 an acre. So if you know which Local Councillors / Planners to "persuade" - that's a lorra lorra cash. Thank goodness there aren't any bent Local Councillors. The mods really should consider a laugh out aloud button. That made I laugh gert proper it did. I loved it when this place does get the clever humour
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Nov 23, 2018 14:00:40 GMT
Indeed. Pitch is excellent, even better than Wembley. I literally stumbled onto a MadeinBristol programme which featured a drone taking aerial shots of Mem and Keith Brookman providing history. The good news is that there is room to expand based on aerial perspective. I would prefer UWE though. I’d prefer a team that won games over any ground. We are seeing some awful stuff lately & no one can deny it’s not D.C. who is a big part
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2018 14:30:18 GMT
Indeed. Pitch is excellent, even better than Wembley. I literally stumbled onto a MadeinBristol programme which featured a drone taking aerial shots of Mem and Keith Brookman providing history. The good news is that there is room to expand based on aerial perspective. I would prefer UWE though. I’d prefer a team that won games over any ground. We are seeing some awful stuff lately & no one can deny it’s not D.C. who is a big part It's not an either or lads, you can have both.
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