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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 16:13:44 GMT
Because, at the risk of repeating myself (regarding the UWE): A good deal for Dwane Sports would be an adequate return on their investment. Wael failed to secure it with the UWE. The numbers did not add up. It is about money. A good deal for Bristol Rovers would be to move a new stadium. And be able to operate without incurring annual losses. (This assumes we would be in a position to service the debt). A good deal for Dwane Sports is not the same thing as a good deal for Bristol Rovers. Forgive me on this but surely a good deal for Dwayne should be a good deal for the club. Being able to operate the club without losses strengthens the owners position, until such time as the assets are built successfully and are able to reach a good return, if that's their intention. I just cannot see they have come in to put a loan against the asset that is the Mem, to then sell this asset to repay it. What Epping is saying is that a break even position would be good business for Bristol Rovers. However, Dwane Sports would look for a profit over and above. Perhaps the UWE deal would have achieved the break even position for the club but Dwane Sports pulled the plug because the level of profit they sought could not be achieved.
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gaslife
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Post by gaslife on Dec 5, 2017 16:42:03 GMT
I've stayed out of this, the last time I was reading so much depressing stuff was the dropping out of the football league. In addition to this, I think it was said the stadium was crap, the directors had zero money to invest, and we were piling up loans to said directors which would be paid back on selling of ground. We also had plans for better facilities etc etc. All that's changed is the standard of football. I think I'm a realist and of course I want to see huge investment in the club, the infrastructure etc. but its quite unlikely. I have seen some investment, it won't ever be enough though, but saying that administration by next March, seriously? I am unsure if the owners really care, I believe they might, but surely to allow us the ultimate failure I don't get it. These comments are without rose tinted, I'm just trying to get a handle on all of this. The one thing I think doesn't make sense, the UWE development. If this was self funding, with fabulous returns and all round brilliant for us (owners), why wouldn't they have just gone ahead anyway? Because the Al-Qadis priority is owning ‘beautiful bits of England’. They would rather own and control the freehold of the Memorial Dump and a field somewhere near Tormarton (and spend as little as possible on them) rather than lease a perfect site for a football ground, cooperate with a respected local institution and invest in what BRFC and the long suffering fans desperately need. To repeat a spot-on post: “A good deal for Dwane Sports is not the same thing as a good deal for Bristol Rovers”.
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 5, 2017 16:53:46 GMT
I've stayed out of this, the last time I was reading so much depressing stuff was the dropping out of the football league. In addition to this, I think it was said the stadium was crap, the directors had zero money to invest, and we were piling up loans to said directors which would be paid back on selling of ground. We also had plans for better facilities etc etc. All that's changed is the standard of football. I think I'm a realist and of course I want to see huge investment in the club, the infrastructure etc. but its quite unlikely. I have seen some investment, it won't ever be enough though, but saying that administration by next March, seriously? I am unsure if the owners really care, I believe they might, but surely to allow us the ultimate failure I don't get it. These comments are without rose tinted, I'm just trying to get a handle on all of this. The one thing I think doesn't make sense, the UWE development. If this was self funding, with fabulous returns and all round brilliant for us (owners), why wouldn't they have just gone ahead anyway? Because the Al-Qadis priority is owning ‘beautiful bits of England’. They would rather own and control the freehold of the Memorial Dump and a field somewhere near Tormarton (and spend as little as possible on them) rather than lease a perfect site for a football ground, cooperate with a respected local institution and invest in what BRFC and the long suffering fans desperately need. To repeat a spot-on post: “A good deal for Dwane Sports is not the same thing as a good deal for Bristol Rovers”. That may be so, but it's still costing them money and only leads to a few possible scenarios where they can only get a portion of their money back anyway if that's what they want
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 5, 2017 17:26:14 GMT
Hani doesn't look like Father Christmas to me PP. Of course he will want his money back. There is only one viable economic option open to Dwane Sports and that is to sell ASAP. They might - just might get their money back. Hence why all this talk of Mem Stadium redevelopment is total and utter crap. I don't like being taken for a mug. We are being strung along. Right - January window. If Dwane Sports cash is running out - then the only liquid assets we have to sell are Mr Bodin, Mr Harrison and Darrell Clarke (assuming an interested Club would have to pay him out of a portion of his contract). Of course I'm not saying all three will go, but it is a possibility. No more Wael on the away terraces when that one happens punters. FFS. Wake up Gasheads.
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 5, 2017 17:30:18 GMT
Hani doesn't look like Father Christmas to me PP. Of course he will want his money back. There is only one viable economic option open to Dwane Sports and that is to sell ASAP. They might - just might get their money back. Hence why all this talk of Mem Stadium redevelopment is total and utter crap. I don't like being taken for a mug. We are being strung along. Right - January window. If Dwane Sports cash is running out - then the only liquid assets we have to sell are Mr Bodin, Mr Harrison and Darrell Clarke (assuming an interested Club would have to pay him out of a portion of his contract). Of course I'm not saying all three will go, but it is a possibility. No more Wael on the away terraces when that one happens punters. FFS. Wake up Gasheads. I am not suggesting they are here for the long haul, only that there are a finite number of options of what they can do if borrowing/investment (delete as you wish) exceeds the value of assets
As Dwane Colony has bought the land for The training ground, whatever happens there surely cannot be tied to anything to do with 1883 Ltd
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 17:54:24 GMT
What money ?everything they have spent is a loan to dwayne sports and racked up as a debt to the club using the mem as collateral If course it was. That amount wouldn't have covered everything they have done. We don't know if it's a loan, or if it's going to be converted. Keep using guess work, instead of facts though. You talk about people contradicting themselves. But you moan they are not spending, then you moan they are spending too much, increasing debts etc. Which is it?? Do you even know what you are moaning about anymore? Or jumping in the bandwagon!!! Have never moaned about them not spending enough money only stated that the money they have spent is racking up as a club debt.so if you are going to fabricate things make sure there is no chance of a come back From the tone of your posts it appears that the only person who knows what he is talking about and only deals in irrefutable facts is you and anyone who has the temerity of disagreeing with you is using guess work. So let's see if my guesswork is more correct about january transfers than yours about the Al qadis
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 17:55:57 GMT
Then where would we play because the value is not in a stadium but in housing That’s a different question, if Dwane decide to cut and run and leave BRFC with/as nothing.
Simply having more debt than the value of our asset(s) is slightly irrelevant currently as Dwane can only sell it for what it’s worth. If they are owed more than the value of what they can sell it for they would be out of pocket if that’s what the decided to do. Dwane seem to be steadily increasing the debt/loan/investment (everyone take your choice of words). Dwane could be ‘owed’ £25m in 3 years time or £100m for arguments sake.
Unless I am missing something until they decide what they want to do their options amount to selling up and getting paid back slowly, hoping someone will pay them off in one go (unlikely), or writing a load of debt off be it in selling up, staying at the club until such time as it can pay some or all of it back, or flogging The Mem and only getting x amount their money back
Talk about the poacher turned gamekeeper
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Post by badbloodash on Dec 5, 2017 17:56:58 GMT
What would like us to keep believing Padstow ? Would You like me to believe that the club is doomed and will go out of business ? Would You like me to believe that a consortium is waiting in the side lines to take over the club and plow £60m-£80m into a low grade LGL 1 club with no assets ? Would you like me to believe that Steve Pantsdown is waiting to take us over and merge us with Bristol Sport ? Or Would you like me to believe that the current owners are in this for the long run and plan to develop the club over the next 5 to 10 years with a sustainable plan with gradual progress to towards a high level football league ? What do you want us to believe Padstow ? Many a word said in jest but if the existing owners want out for say 12m landsdown buys the mem boots us out and moves the rugby back. Because if they go up that’s 70 m per season so move the rugby because they couldn’t stay up sharing that pitch so one successful season and the mems paid for and he gets his dream to see us die with the losses mounting up by next year we will owe more than the ground is worth worrying times for us
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 18:00:46 GMT
Hani doesn't look like Father Christmas to me PP. Of course he will want his money back. There is only one viable economic option open to Dwane Sports and that is to sell ASAP. They might - just might get their money back. Hence why all this talk of Mem Stadium redevelopment is total and utter crap. I don't like being taken for a mug. We are being strung along. Right - January window. If Dwane Sports cash is running out - then the only liquid assets we have to sell are Mr Bodin, Mr Harrison and Darrell Clarke (assuming an interested Club would have to pay him out of a portion of his contract). Of course I'm not saying all three will go, but it is a possibility. No more Wael on the away terraces when that one happens punters. FFS. Wake up Gasheads. I am not suggesting they are here for the long haul, only that there are a finite number of options of what they can do if borrowing/investment (delete as you wish) exceeds the value of assets
As Dwane Colony has bought the land for The training ground, whatever happens there surely cannot be tied to anything to do with 1883 Ltd
How do you work that out Simon the cost of the purchase is listed among the debts the club owed to dwayne sports
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Dec 5, 2017 18:29:19 GMT
Hani doesn't look like Father Christmas to me PP. Of course he will want his money back. There is only one viable economic option open to Dwane Sports and that is to sell ASAP. They might - just might get their money back. Hence why all this talk of Mem Stadium redevelopment is total and utter crap. I don't like being taken for a mug. We are being strung along. Right - January window. If Dwane Sports cash is running out - then the only liquid assets we have to sell are Mr Bodin, Mr Harrison and Darrell Clarke (assuming an interested Club would have to pay him out of a portion of his contract). Of course I'm not saying all three will go, but it is a possibility. No more Wael on the away terraces when that one happens punters. FFS. Wake up Gasheads. I am not suggesting they are here for the long haul, only that there are a finite number of options of what they can do if borrowing/investment (delete as you wish) exceeds the value of assets
As Dwane Colony has bought the land for The training ground, whatever happens there surely cannot be tied to anything to do with 1883 Ltd
But surely both Steve Hamer and Wael Al-Qadi both recently confirmed that Dwane Sports were here for the long haul. Do you think they were being disingenuous? As for The Colony, I'm not sure if that is part of the "£12mil investment" that Steve Hamer likes to talk about. Although it has absolutely nothing to do with Bristol Rovers until we get to use the facilities (opening July 2019 - can't wait - wonder what rent we'll be paying). As an illiquid asset - they can sell the land as an add-on to a potential buyer of BRFC - or they can flog it to whoever they like. As you say - it is nothing to do with 1883 Ltd. We agree on one other thing. There is a very small, finite number of options open to Dwane Sports as debt approaches the point where it looks likely to exceed assets. I can only think of one though.
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 5, 2017 18:46:17 GMT
If course it was. That amount wouldn't have covered everything they have done. We don't know if it's a loan, or if it's going to be converted. Keep using guess work, instead of facts though. You talk about people contradicting themselves. But you moan they are not spending, then you moan they are spending too much, increasing debts etc. Which is it?? Do you even know what you are moaning about anymore? Or jumping in the bandwagon!!! Have never moaned about them not spending enough money only stated that the money they have spent is racking up as a club debt.so if you are going to fabricate things make sure there is no chance of a come back From the tone of your posts it appears that the only person who knows what he is talking about and only deals in irrefutable facts is you and anyone who has the temerity of disagreeing with you is using guess work. So let's see if my guesswork is more correct about january transfers than yours about the Al qadis I have not said once I am right and you are wrong. I have not even said what is going to happen in January or behind, I don't know, that is the point LOL. I have just stated what has been done so far. You said nothing has been done apart from a few caravans. So that is suggesting they have not spent any money. Unless it was all free of course. Think you should read back through my comments. I have never suggested anything will happen. Just that they should be giving time, unless you know of a good reason, why they shouldn't??
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Post by daniel300380 on Dec 5, 2017 18:47:55 GMT
Have never moaned about them not spending enough money only stated that the money they have spent is racking up as a club debt.so if you are going to fabricate things make sure there is no chance of a come back From the tone of your posts it appears that the only person who knows what he is talking about and only deals in irrefutable facts is you and anyone who has the temerity of disagreeing with you is using guess work. So let's see if my guesswork is more correct about january transfers than yours about the Al qadis I have not said once I am right and you are wrong. I have not even said what is going to happen in January or behind, I don't know, that is the point LOL. I have just stated what has been done so far. You said nothing has been done apart from a few caravans. So that is suggesting they have not spent any money. Unless it was all free of course. Think you should read back through my comments. I have never suggested anything will happen. Just that they should be giving time, unless you know of a good reason, why they shouldn't?? Yes so far you have not provided anything to back up why they are so bad for the club. That's why I assume you are guessing. I'm not the one suggesting I know anything.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 5, 2017 19:20:53 GMT
That’s a different question, if Dwane decide to cut and run and leave BRFC with/as nothing.
Simply having more debt than the value of our asset(s) is slightly irrelevant currently as Dwane can only sell it for what it’s worth. If they are owed more than the value of what they can sell it for they would be out of pocket if that’s what the decided to do. Dwane seem to be steadily increasing the debt/loan/investment (everyone take your choice of words). Dwane could be ‘owed’ £25m in 3 years time or £100m for arguments sake.
Unless I am missing something until they decide what they want to do their options amount to selling up and getting paid back slowly, hoping someone will pay them off in one go (unlikely), or writing a load of debt off be it in selling up, staying at the club until such time as it can pay some or all of it back, or flogging The Mem and only getting x amount their money back
Talk about the poacher turned gamekeeper i have simply stated facts there Padstow. I do not know what Dwane Sports intentions are, only that there are only a finite number of options available to them, including a worst case scenario for us as fans of BRFC Whatever happens, they cant get paid more for something, than someone is willing to pay if debt/borrowing whatever anyone wants to call it is greater than that asset can they?
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 5, 2017 19:24:32 GMT
I am not suggesting they are here for the long haul, only that there are a finite number of options of what they can do if borrowing/investment (delete as you wish) exceeds the value of assets
As Dwane Colony has bought the land for The training ground, whatever happens there surely cannot be tied to anything to do with 1883 Ltd
How do you work that out Simon the cost of the purchase is listed among the debts the club owed to dwayne sports Is it? Dwane Colony is a seperate company that owns Hortham as far as i am aware and not owned by 1883ltd
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 19:32:05 GMT
How do you work that out Simon the cost of the purchase is listed among the debts the club owed to dwayne sports Is it? Dwane Colony is a seperate company that owns Hortham as far as i am aware and not owned by 1883ltd A subsidiary of the parent company neither of which to my knowledge have a bank account recognised in the UK so all payments are made by and set off against the football club and covered by the draw down loan so is part of the debt
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 19:33:54 GMT
Talk about the poacher turned gamekeeper i have simply stated facts there Padstow. I do not know what Dwane Sports intentions are, only that there are only a finite number of options available to them, including a worst case scenario for us as fans of BRFC Whatever happens, they cant get paid more for something, than someone is willing to pay if debt/borrowing whatever anyone wants to call it is greater than that asset can they? Hence they won't allow the debt to grow more than the worth of the mem and we are getting close to that figure
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 5, 2017 19:38:55 GMT
Is it? Dwane Colony is a seperate company that owns Hortham as far as i am aware and not owned by 1883ltd A subsidiary of the parent company neither of which to my knowledge have a bank account recognised in the UK so all payments are made by and set off against the football club and covered by the draw down loan so is part of the debt In wbich case the value of assets has increased then as well
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Post by Peter Parker on Dec 5, 2017 19:41:50 GMT
i have simply stated facts there Padstow. I do not know what Dwane Sports intentions are, only that there are only a finite number of options available to them, including a worst case scenario for us as fans of BRFC Whatever happens, they cant get paid more for something, than someone is willing to pay if debt/borrowing whatever anyone wants to call it is greater than that asset can they? Hence they won't allow the debt to grow more than the worth of the mem and we are getting close to that figure And the question is then, why are they continuing to spend money?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 20:00:04 GMT
Hence they won't allow the debt to grow more than the worth of the mem and we are getting close to that figure And the question is then, why are they continuing to spend money? The question I ask you is Would you be taking the same stance if it was the previous custodians doing the same thing
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Post by a more piratey game on Dec 5, 2017 20:16:31 GMT
There is a Guardian article from 31st October 2016 which clearly states the dynamics between the brothers. Dead Pan Hani versus Smiley Waely. this one? “Definitely more Bristol Rovers than banking,” says Qadi, laughing, when asked how he balances his different roles. His family completed its takeover at Rovers in February, giving the youngest of three brothers a new lease of life as well as a long-suffering football club. His wife says she has not seen him so happy since their children were born. “I dragged my family into this,” says Qadi, who had been scouring Europe for a club with potential. “My father and my brothers – Hani, the eldest, is the guy in charge at the bank, a Harvard Business School honours’ graduate – they’re conservative and they look at business with numbers and charts. So to try to convince the family to come into football, something they see as just a game … they had no clue about the industry, about how it has grown.” “A new stadium has to be built. We cannot be sustainable if we stay at the Memorial,” Qadi says in Jordan, where he spends roughly three weeks a month www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/31/his-bodyguard-looked-like-he-wanted-to-kill-me-abramovichs-german-ambush
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