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Post by timothyq on Aug 17, 2014 15:25:21 GMT
8 wickets in a session, outstanding!
I appreciate it's not the strongest ever India team but I'm excited about some of the players emerging from this squad, some issues at the top of the order and I want to see Moeen establish himself as the #6 batsmen first and a spin bowler second, but the future is looking a lot brighter than it did even a few weeks ago.
Also, I need something to smile about at the moment.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 17, 2014 19:41:08 GMT
Latest - Result
India 148 all out & 94 all out England 486 all out
England win by an innings and 244 runs
England win the series 3-1
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Bridgeman
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Post by Bridgeman on Aug 17, 2014 20:33:44 GMT
Perhaps we should pack our team off to Glos cricket ground and get them to watch how a team that were performing incredibly poorly managed to turn it around so successfully. Brilliant performance by the team, coaching team and the England captain.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 18, 2014 12:10:28 GMT
I've been away so I didn't follow much of the final test. I was at the first 2 days of the Old Trafford test though. I was sat with a group of Indian fans who were stunned when Dhoni chose to bat under murky Manchester sky. 'We can't play swing' they kept saying and so it proved. They never recovered mentally from that 1st morning at Old Trafford and pretty much checked out of the series from then on. It was pretty embarrassing to be honest - I hope their media and fans rip them a new one. These are the best paid cricketers in the World and they just showed no fight whatsoever. England played well and it did show some good signs that they fought back from going 1 down. But let's be honest India made that about as easy as it possibly could have been. From pretty much the moment Jadeja took the pressure of Cook by dropping him at the Rose Bowl everything went wrong for them.
I'm pleased for Cook and I'm pleased for this England side who took some undeserved stick from people who couldn't except the KP era was over. We have some interesting, talented, hard-working players who are trying to make a name for themselves and it was good to see them get some reward for that. We played some exciting stuff at times. Having said that I still think there are huge questions and you have to ask whether you'd be comfortable with this team against Australia or South Africa anywhere or playing India and Pakistan away. These are the true tests for an England team right now in World Cricket and I'm not sure I'd back us in any of those series.
Alaister Cook - 7. (Probably only 6 on performance but showed mental strength to turn it around. Answered critics and kept his cool. I think I'd be tempted to have given it 2 fingers to the press box given the number of his ex-teammates who were sitting there picking up easy paychecks for sticking the boot in. Still needs that 100 though and still needs to show he's back to his consistent, solid best). Sam Robson - 4. (Not sold at all. Had a poor series v India and looks flawed to me with his technique outside off stump which is surprising for an opener and fatal really. I don't think he'll partner Cook to start the next series. Lyth may come in - need to find someone because Johnson will make mincemeat of Robson next summer based on that performance). Ballance - 9. (Watching him live I really appreciated him for the first time. He looks so calm, so solid and just accumulates quite quickly without you really noticing. England's most consistent performer. Hopefully our number 3 for many years to come) Bell - 6. (Bell was Bell. Looked good at times but frustrated with dismissals and lack of responsibility in certain situations. This is who he is though and there's no one better and we need his experience for what it's worth so I suppose you just stick with him.) Root - 8. (I thought Root was outstanding this year. Has become a key member of the team. They now have to decide if they're going to keep him at 5 from now on or try and move him up again - it must be tempting I would have thought). Ali - 6. (Odd season. Played arguably England's finest innings of the summer in an agonising backs to the wall defeat but too often gave his wicket away loosely and looks to have a problem against the short ball which is concerning. On the other hand his bowling exceeded all expectations and right now there's no doubt he keeps his place as England's primary spin option. Still tons of promise and worth persevering with anyway. He's really exciting to watch but needs to think a bit more about his approach to batting I think). Buttler - 7. (Has come in and done everything that was asked of him. I think he's now taken the gloves off Prior for the duration. Only reason this isn't higher is that generally he came in to bat in extremely favourable situations which completely suited his approach. You want to see him under a bit of pressure in a 120-5 kind of situation before you fully back him. I also thought his keeping at Old Trafford was a bit ropey. But I've no doubt he's now England's man and will take some removing). Woakes - 6. (Seemed the most limited of the seamers we tried. A bit one dimensional and didn't bowl at the stumps enough. But is a decent cricketer who deserves to continue to get opportunities to develop as an international player. He certainly has some major upside.) Jordan - 6. (Again didn't quite fully grab the opportunities presented but the promise is still there and his final performance at the Oval suggested that he's getting it together. Hasn't had much of a chance to show what he can do with the bat but is a genuine athlete and a fine fielder. A fun player to watch with a great attitude - there's a bit of the spark plug Freddie Flintoff quality about him). Broad - 8. (Deserve credit for playing through injury. Won us the series with a stunning spell on first morning at Old Trafford. After the poor first test was probably our best bowler in the Indian series. Perhaps beginning to show signs of consistancy finally.) Anderson - 7. (There were finally signs of decline for Jimmy but he bounced back brilliantly and will certainly lead us v Aussies next year. Again, you hope he's still at the top of his game next summer but you worry wear and tear will catch up with him). Plunkett - 8. (I thought he was the story of the summer till he got injured. Plunkett was much criticised in his first spell as an England player, then declined massively and looked to be finished. Instead here he is finally fulfilling his promise. Let's hope he bounces back because I think he could play a key role in next year's Ashes and potentially in the World Cup as well).
If Mitchell Johnson is fully fit I'd still make us underdogs v Australia next summer but I think we have a team with the right attitude and talent to make it a very good series and there's no reason to think we couldn't win it if our big guns turn up. Next big event is the World Cup in the next year. India - dear oh dear, big problems I don't even know where to start there. Feel sorry for Dhoni - he gave everything and is a great competitor - his team rolled over on him though. Only plus is the discovery of India's first genuinely fast bowler in Varun Arun - he was fun to watch, raw but fully of aggression. Really worked England over at Old Trafford.
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Post by timothyq on Aug 18, 2014 14:38:38 GMT
Good ratings Irish, only questioning point is the comments on Buttler, I think coming in at 170/6 at OT is worse than an extremely favourable situation.
Highlight of the series for me was Roots 56 from 41 at Southampton, not because it was the best knock but because it makes me think the guy can do just about anything.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 18, 2014 16:53:29 GMT
Good ratings Irish, only questioning point is the comments on Buttler, I think coming in at 170/6 at OT is worse than an extremely favourable situation. Highlight of the series for me was Roots 56 from 41 at Southampton, not because it was the best knock but because it makes me think the guy can do just about anything. Yes - that was certainly a good knock but we were still not under that much pressure in the game given India's terrible performance in the first innings. I agree with you on Root - he is impressively versatile. I'd like to see him given the ball a bit more often actually.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 19, 2014 16:25:46 GMT
England's schedule before next summer August-September 2014 5 ODIs & T20 v India (home) November-December 2014 7 ODIs v Sri Lanka (away) January-February 2015 ODI tri-series v Australia & India (in Australia) February-March 2015 ICC World Cup (in Australia & New Zealand) April-May 2015 3 Tests v West Indies (away)
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 27, 2014 13:24:43 GMT
Latest 2nd ODI v India - Cardiff...England won toss & chose to field.
India 304-6 - 50 ovs - Raina 100..Woakes 4 wkts & Tredwell 2.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 27, 2014 17:17:12 GMT
Latest 2nd ODI v India - Cardiff...England won toss & chose to field. India 304-6 - 50 ovs - Raina 100..Woakes 4 wkts & Tredwell 2. Disaster.....England 161 all out
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Sept 1, 2014 20:08:00 GMT
England coach Peter Moores insists skipper Alastair Cook can be an influential batsman in one-day cricket.
Last week ex-England spinner Graeme Swann said Cook should not be in the one-day team as he scores too slowly.
"Alastair has taken some criticism but is a very good one-day player with five hundreds and 19 fifties," Moores said.
Following successive heavy defeats, England trail 2-0 in the one-day series with India and need to win at Edgbaston on Tuesday to keep the contest alive.
The captain has 3,030 runs from 84 ODIs at an average of 37, with a strike rate of 77 runs per 100 balls.
September
2 4th ODI, Edgbaston (10:30 BST)
5 5th ODI, Headingley (10:30 BST)
7 Twenty20 international, Edgbaston (15:00 BST)
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Sept 2, 2014 17:03:19 GMT
4TH ODI - Edgbaston.
England 206 all out...India 212-1 Rahane 106, Dhawan 97 no.
Total humiliation..India win series and lead 3-0.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Sept 4, 2014 12:42:13 GMT
This one day series has been a nightmare for England.
If they are going to continue to try and build a platform then go hell for leather in the last 10 overs then Cook and Bell have got to start to score hundreds (something Bell has failed to do throughout his ODI career) and they need Trott back.
However, while this approach could yield success in the UK I don't see it being effective in the sub content (where it is easiest to score quickly against a newer ball) or in Australia (where you have to score 300+).
I would like us pick a more dynamic team. We might as well write-off this World Cup and start to build for 5 years time. The squad I would take is something like:
Hayles Vince Bopara Taylor Morgan Moeen Buttler Stokes Woakes Willey Broad
Tredwell Jordan Ballance Kieswetter
All of the bowlers in the squad are front line bowlers but they can hit the ball hard too giving us some depth to our batting. It also includes a left armer who is decent at the death and Woakes who I think has also matured into a decent death bowler with potential to improve further. I was really impressed with him on T20 finals day.
We'd have some dynamic batsmen up top and Taylor and Bopara should be adaptable enough and technically solid enough to hold the innings together.
That would mean no place for Cook, Bell, Root (bit unlucky perhaps), Gurney (Willey is a better batsman and I think he's at least as good a bowler from what I've seen), Anderson (never really rated him as ODI bowler, he's a bit too predictable) or Finn (who I still don't think is back to his best yet but I could be persuaded to take instead of Jordan).
I suspect though we'll keep the same squad for the World Cup, it will be a disaster and then senior players like Cook, Bell and Anderson will retire from ODI cricket giving us a chance to change our approach.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Sept 4, 2014 16:33:06 GMT
This one day series has been a nightmare for England. If they are going to continue to try and build a platform then go hell for leather in the last 10 overs then Cook and Bell have got to start to score hundreds (something Bell has failed to do throughout his ODI career) and they need Trott back. However, while this approach could yield success in the UK I don't see it being effective in the sub content (where it is easiest to score quickly against a newer ball) or in Australia (where you have to score 300+). I would like us pick a more dynamic team. We might as well write-off this World Cup and start to build for 5 years time. The squad I would take is something like: Hayles Vince Bopara Taylor Morgan Moeen Buttler Stokes Woakes Willey Broad Tredwell Jordan Ballance Kieswetter All of the bowlers in the squad are front line bowlers but they can hit the ball hard too giving us some depth to our batting. It also includes a left armer who is decent at the death and Woakes who I think has also matured into a decent death bowler with potential to improve further. I was really impressed with him on T20 finals day. We'd have some dynamic batsmen up top and Taylor and Bopara should be adaptable enough and technically solid enough to hold the innings together. That would mean no place for Cook, Bell, Root (bit unlucky perhaps), Gurney (Willey is a better batsman and I think he's at least as good a bowler from what I've seen), Anderson (never really rated him as ODI bowler, he's a bit too predictable) or Finn (who I still don't think is back to his best yet but I could be persuaded to take instead of Jordan). I suspect though we'll keep the same squad for the World Cup, it will be a disaster and then senior players like Cook, Bell and Anderson will retire from ODI cricket giving us a chance to change our approach. I'm inclined to agree but I think the reaction has been a bit lacking in context in some quarters. We have actually improved in One Day Cricket quite a lot over the last year or so (albeit from a disaterously low base), we are playing the defending World Champions who are extremely good in this format and have exactly the right type of players to be successful and finally, I think it's really difficult for England to produce World Class One Day players. English conditions are just not good for development of the type of batsman and bowlers that you need. It's very difficult to play the kind of attacking, aggressive one day game and be successful in this country. Just look at the scores from the Quarter-Finals (and now Semi-Final) of the County 50 Over competition. These are generally a lot lower than you see in other countries and certainly in the international game. 250 probably wins most games in that competition, 220 at least puts you in most games. The way teams play ODI's now 250 just isn't going to cut it - anything under 300 and you are likely going to struggle. Alex Hales is a good power hitter but he's very rare and it remains to be seen whether he'll step into the elite bracket of those type of players. Our middle order lacks power (but you need more than just power in ODI's - you need class too and our class batsman never have power in their locker). I don't think Pieterson would have emerged the way he did if he'd have moved to England at 16 rather than fully developed. It's just really hard to play that way in English conditions and be successful. Also, we don't tend to produce yorker type bowlers because that's not what's successful in the longer format. We produce hit the pitch types and swing bowlers. Crucially we also don't produce enough spinners (which has the concurrent effect that we also struggle against them because batsman don't see enough good spin when they're coming through). Spinners are key to winning one day games I think - throttling up ends and taking wickets as batsmen have to force the pace. So I think there's some fundamental problems. I think Cook is being a bit unfairly criticised here - you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. In Buttler, Ali, Jordan, Hales, Stokes we may have the foundations of something to build on. But really I think we're a bit stuck in the immediate term and the World Cup is just around the corner. Hard to see us having an impact - and we haven't had any impact in a World Cup since 1992. The rest of the World has left us behind in this format. But Cook could reasonably argue that he has partially turned around our fortunes in ODI's - nothing spectacular just going from completely rank to competing most of the time (though not here obviously) and deserves a chance to finish the cycle then they hand off to someone else; probably Broad. The whole prospect is uninspiring to me whichever direction is taken. In all honesty my interest in ODI's has declined massively over the last decade - I struggle to follow it properly. I'm a traditionalist but I genuinely prefer T20 to ODI's; it works better in a tournament format and actually does what it says on the tin. Having said I think the rule changes have at least made ODI's a little less predictable and formulaic than they were.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Sept 4, 2014 21:06:51 GMT
Unusually I disagree with you Irish.
I think England have lost 6 of their last 7 ODI series and we are failing to get the best out of our better players. We've been awful since we lost he Champions Trophey final.
Hales has come into the side and been aggressive in the power play then dropped anchor. That's not how he plays in county cricket. When he gets off to a start he keeps going. Graham Swann has stated that that's the way the management want England to play and I think that's completely wrong. People have commended Moeen's innings the other day but I don't think he'd have come in and been so aggressive had he been batting at 3 and come in after 20 overs. I'm sure he'd have just looked to rotate the strike and play risk free cricket.
Cook even stated that we didn't attack the spinners last week because we'd lost wickets but even the best club players hit a couple over the top early on, push the field back and then take the single. The mentality is all wrong.
The spinner point is a good one and I agree that our county players don't get enough practice against quality spinners but most of the 50 over stuff is played later in the season now so hopefully some of our better spinners will get more of a chance.
I think we have the players to be better than we are at present but we pick players based on their record in test cricket not their performance for the counties in ODI cricket.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Sept 5, 2014 8:51:42 GMT
Unusually I disagree with you Irish. I think England have lost 6 of their last 7 ODI series and we are failing to get the best out of our better players. We've been awful since we lost he Champions Trophey final. Hales has come into the side and been aggressive in the power play then dropped anchor. That's not how he plays in county cricket. When he gets off to a start he keeps going. Graham Swann has stated that that's the way the management want England to play and I think that's completely wrong. People have commended Moeen's innings the other day but I don't think he'd have come in and been so aggressive had he been batting at 3 and come in after 20 overs. I'm sure he'd have just looked to rotate the strike and play risk free cricket. Cook even stated that we didn't attack the spinners last week because we'd lost wickets but even the best club players hit a couple over the top early on, push the field back and then take the single. The mentality is all wrong. The spinner point is a good one and I agree that our county players don't get enough practice against quality spinners but most of the 50 over stuff is played later in the season now so hopefully some of our better spinners will get more of a chance. I think we have the players to be better than we are at present but we pick players based on their record in test cricket not their performance for the counties in ODI cricket. The problem is getting the balance right though. I can remember when we won the Sharjah Trophy in the late 90s and everyone became really excited that we could win with a side of one day specialists. Then the 1999 World Cup happened and those specialists were shown to be simply not good enough to play international cricket. It's not just about player type, it's also about class. Having said that you are right we could be a lot better. I don't think Cook and Bell should be in this side but I think one of them should be. I think I'd like to see them try Moeen as an opener alongside Hales. Personally, I've always thought Morgan was overrated and gimmicky. He's flashy but not consistent enough - I prefer Bopara in this format and I don't know why they've dropped him. Buttler is the real deal - maybe they should try him a bit higher in the order although I can see why they like him coming in at the end. To me - ODI is all about momentum. India would not bat like that if you took a few early wickets and out them under pressure - they'd be forced to rebuild. No team and smashes it from 1-50 Overs unless circumstances are in their favour. In fact when I've watched India lately (before this series) I've struck by how late they've been able to leave their final big push and still comfortably get 300+, Dhoni is the absolute master at finishing. Not sure I've seen anyone better than him. We don't pace our innings well and we leave the bottom order too much to do because we seem incapable of milking the spinners for 5-6 an over in the middle like other sides do. Our other main problem in this series has been a complete failure to take early wickets - in some ways that's more worrying because the Indian openers have shown themselves to be vulnerable to the new ball in England.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Sept 5, 2014 9:44:40 GMT
I think the trap we’ve fallen into in the past is picking bits and pieces cricketers. I am not talking about picking jack of all trade types. I think the players I have listed are all genuinely decent cricketers, most of whom have two strings to their bow.
I know what you mean about having a couple of World Class players to hold it together though. Australia only really have Clarke, India have Kohli, South Africa have DeVillers and Sri Lanka have Sangakara. Bell is the obvious man to do that for England but his one day record is dreadful. I don’t think Cook is assertive enough to bat at the top of the order and I don’t think he’s adaptable enough to bat at 4. I guess they are hoping that Root will develop into that player.
Anyway, Cook has started with good intent today. Let’s hope the penny’s dropped.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Sept 5, 2014 16:55:16 GMT
5th ODI v India at Headingley.
England 294-7..Root 113, Buttler 49, Cook 46.
India 253-9..Rayudu 53, Jadeja 87.
England win by 41 runs.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Sept 6, 2014 22:20:15 GMT
5th ODI v India at Headingley. England 294-7..Root 113, Buttler 49, Cook 46. India 253-9..Rayudu 53, Jadeja 87. England win by 41 runs. It was certainly better but I'm not sure we can read too much into it as it was pretty clear that the Indians had (perhaps understandbly) mentally checked out of this one. I don't think it stops any of the debate around the future of the team and whether Cook should be captain.
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