Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 15:53:01 GMT
There are a couple of ways new buyers could turn a profit from BRFC.
One is to sell the asset (ground), not get round to building a new one, the money vanishes, they vanish, bugger.
A second is to invest to build the just out of reach step change of an attractive cash-generating stadium, institute proper business management, and set out to provide a better product. Having bought a debt-ridden cart horse, they'd be selling a thriving business.
I think our problem is that we're currently stuck on a third way. Well meaning person, who wouldn't leave us high and dry, but basically has sought to turn a profit, in this case by increasing value through a property deal (that's collapsed), while the football looks after itself (which it hasn't), and all immediate financial, organisational, operational short-comings will be solved by the property deal (which they wouldn't, even if it had gone through).
I don't want 1, I'm fed up with 3 (which only has a limited shelf life up until a dead deal is recognised as such, anyway), so fingers crossed for 2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 18:34:28 GMT
Maybe so, but 2 questions; 1. Was that money put in just to cover losses as a result of poor decisions made by the BoD that he chairs, (and sat behind that, where are the millions from 2 visits to Wembley, FA cup run, Lambert, Caryol, JPT final etc etc etc) 2. Did we ever get any evidence that all income from UWE would have been fed back to the FC? Q1 Yes it was used to keep us in business Q2 How can there be evidence for something that doesn't exist............yet. A1. Because Higgs lost the golden legacy he inherited, and many millions more. A2. Are you seriously saying that there was no business plan and no thought given to what would happen with non-matchday income?
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Post by fanatical on Oct 5, 2015 19:21:50 GMT
To be fair to NH (which is a rare occurance) - my understanding is that his loan to the Club is interest free. Not sure about the other Directors though. read the accounts
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 5, 2015 19:37:38 GMT
fanatical - If you could provide a link that would be lovely.
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
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Post by Thatslife on Oct 5, 2015 19:48:34 GMT
Q1 Yes it was used to keep us in business Q2 How can there be evidence for something that doesn't exist............yet. A1. Because Higgs lost the golden legacy he inherited, and many millions more. A2. Are you seriously saying that there was no business plan and no thought given to what would happen with non-matchday income? What golden legacy? Yes there may have been outline plan but nothing can ever be finalised until a new "deal" is put together. No final evidence, as you asked about, can exist without the final plan is confirmed, I know tenders were put out for the ancillary shops etc.
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Post by droitwichgas on Oct 5, 2015 19:59:37 GMT
You got the time machine working then Bamber ? Pure conjecture, we could have done a Hereford as well That's why I use Solihull as a point of reference. Whilst Hereford were disintigrating, Solihull, Founded 2007, with gates of 400 are making a profit and look like contenders to join the division we were in last year. If you can do that with gates of 400 then L1 with 7000 paying customers should be achieveable. FC Hereford are also top of their league and will undoubtedly make a profit this season when their home gates are in the 1,000's, perhaps it's far easier to start from scratch and make a profit then turn around a club like Rover, or Hereford for that matter.
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Post by fanatical on Oct 5, 2015 20:11:13 GMT
fanatical - If you could provide a link that would be lovely. accounts available via David Sams dave@bristolrovers.co.uk
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Post by bluebeard on Oct 5, 2015 21:22:41 GMT
fanatical - If you could provide a link that would be lovely. accounts available via David Sams dave@bristolrovers.co.uk The accounts are quite confusing as you need to look at the group position ie football club, stadium co and holding co so 3 sets of figures to go through. From memory, the latest set includes a note referring to the MSP loan being take out after the accounting period end and what it was used for. There are also notes referring to preference shares and interest bearing directors loans although (unconfirmed as far as I'm aware) it has been said that some, if not all, of the directors are waiving the interest payments that are due to them. We do know that some of Higgs loans have been converted to share capital so in that context they were and are now interest free.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 21:52:07 GMT
A1. Because Higgs lost the golden legacy he inherited, and many millions more. A2. Are you seriously saying that there was no business plan and no thought given to what would happen with non-matchday income? What golden legacy? Yes there may have been outline plan but nothing can ever be finalised until a new "deal" is put together. No final evidence, as you asked about, can exist without the final plan is confirmed, I know tenders were put out for the ancillary shops etc. The legacy was a stable L1 club that had just made a massive profit. All that was needed was a simple statement along the lines of ''all ancillary income goes straight to the FC''.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 21:53:35 GMT
That's why I use Solihull as a point of reference. Whilst Hereford were disintigrating, Solihull, Founded 2007, with gates of 400 are making a profit and look like contenders to join the division we were in last year. If you can do that with gates of 400 then L1 with 7000 paying customers should be achieveable. FC Hereford are also top of their league and will undoubtedly make a profit this season when their home gates are in the 1,000's, perhaps it's far easier to start from scratch and make a profit then turn around a club like Rover, or Hereford for that matter. As just explained to Thatslife, Higgs didn't start from scratch, he took on a stable L1 club with a big bank balance and a huge fan base.
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Post by nickchippenhamgas on Oct 6, 2015 5:35:48 GMT
Like I said earlier, the whole mess we're now in revolves around a chairman, literally putting all his perverbial eggs in one basket, no plan B, as he said to Geoff Twentyman when talking on the radio as the news broke about UWE/Sainsburys deal. If we'd have had a credible well thought out plan B the writs against sainsburys could be going on in the background whilst the UWE takes shape, this new plan B will prove to be smoke and mirrors once again. I said a long time ago if we don't get the UWE then the Gas will gradually wither on the vine, I hope, really hope, that the rumours are true, and that we get the UWE and proper investment on the pitch to get us to where Bournemouth are, sadly I don't think it will happen.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 6, 2015 7:14:23 GMT
Q1 Yes it was used to keep us in business Q2 How can there be evidence for something that doesn't exist............yet. A1. Because Higgs lost the golden legacy he inherited, and many millions more. A2. Are you seriously saying that there was no business plan and no thought given to what would happen with non-matchday income?There is a very big business plan, but is company confidential until the articles of Association or Memorandum are issued ,they will stay that way
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Post by fanatical on Oct 6, 2015 8:09:07 GMT
accounts available via David Sams dave@bristolrovers.co.uk The accounts are quite confusing as you need to look at the group position ie football club, stadium co and holding co so 3 sets of figures to go through. From memory, the latest set includes a note referring to the MSP loan being take out after the accounting period end and what it was used for. There are also notes referring to preference shares and interest bearing directors loans although (unconfirmed as far as I'm aware) it has been said that some, if not all, of the directors are waiving the interest payments that are due to them. We do know that some of Higgs loans have been converted to share capital so in that context they were and are now interest free. Not confusing at all. Loans and bonds which directors held/hold are subject to interest of 2.5 to 4%. Interest added to directors account for drawing when appropriate. Loans converted to share capital increases the shareholders share of the business.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 6, 2015 8:40:15 GMT
The accounts are quite confusing as you need to look at the group position ie football club, stadium co and holding co so 3 sets of figures to go through. From memory, the latest set includes a note referring to the MSP loan being take out after the accounting period end and what it was used for. There are also notes referring to preference shares and interest bearing directors loans although (unconfirmed as far as I'm aware) it has been said that some, if not all, of the directors are waiving the interest payments that are due to them. We do know that some of Higgs loans have been converted to share capital so in that context they were and are now interest free. Not confusing at all. Loans and bonds which directors held/hold are subject to interest of 2.5 to 4%. Interest added to directors account for drawing when appropriate. Loans converted to share capital increases the shareholders share of the business. To be strictly accurate the director who converts his loan to shares will increase his share of the business and all other shareholders will have their share of the business reduced. However many shares are issued it remains a fact that there is still only 100% of the business to own.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 6, 2015 8:49:45 GMT
"it has been said that some, if not all, of the directors are waiving the interest payments that are due to them". OK - If this is true (I have heard this before) it's just weird that this has not communicated. It's a massive issue. Are the Directors making money out of their investment in the Club or are they making interest free loans out of the kindness of their hearts? If it's the latter - WTF don't they tell us and actually receive some positive press coverage? Our Board and positive press - as rare as rocking horse sh*t.
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Post by fanatical on Oct 6, 2015 12:08:06 GMT
Not confusing at all. Loans and bonds which directors held/hold are subject to interest of 2.5 to 4%. Interest added to directors account for drawing when appropriate. Loans converted to share capital increases the shareholders share of the business. To be strictly accurate the director who converts his loan to shares will increase his share of the business and all other shareholders will have their share of the business reduced. However many shares are issued it remains a fact that there is still only 100% of the business to own. Thanks - what I meant but better put. and indicates why the sharescheme suffered
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 6, 2015 12:35:39 GMT
To be strictly accurate the director who converts his loan to shares will increase his share of the business and all other shareholders will have their share of the business reduced. However many shares are issued it remains a fact that there is still only 100% of the business to own. Thanks - what I meant but better put. and indicates why the sharescheme suffered Correct, never seen anything in the sharescheme that allowed for the issue of new shares
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The Gas
Joined: May 2014
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Post by The Gas on Oct 6, 2015 12:45:02 GMT
Thanks - what I meant but better put. and indicates why the sharescheme suffered Correct, never seen anything in the sharescheme that allowed for the issue of new shares There is a motion at every BRFC AGM to confirm that the shareholders are happy to allow new shares to be issued, this gets passed unopposed, but as far as I am aware there has not been an increase in shares over recent years.
There are, of course, shares held by ex Directors that could be redistributed with the permission of the Company Secretary acting on behalf of the Chairman, if they want to sell them.
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 6, 2015 13:18:50 GMT
Correct, never seen anything in the sharescheme that allowed for the issue of new shares There is a motion at every BRFC AGM to confirm that the shareholders are happy to allow new shares to be issued, this gets passed unopposed, but as far as I am aware there has not been an increase in shares over recent years.
There are, of course, shares held by ex Directors that could be redistributed with the permission of the Company Secretary acting on behalf of the Chairman, if they want to sell them.
There could also be enough shares in issue but not yet called up. The point I was making was the sharescheme never had a mechanism to participate in another issue of shares so the holding would always be diluted. Think if remember what Oldie was saying awhile ago originally they planned a clause so the SC would have a blocking vote to stop the issue of new shares which by extention would've blocked any new shares being sold to raise capital. All in all one of many foreseeable problems with the sharescheme
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 6, 2015 13:36:41 GMT
With all this talk of Shares, I have some questions.
Do you think my 5x10p shares could swing the balance between selling to the Consortium, or fighting them off? Is there a chance that my five shares could hold the balance of power? Should I expect a phone call from the Consortium?
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