brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
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Post by brizzle on Sept 9, 2015 16:32:46 GMT
Oh yes, Oxford certainly made it easier for the ref to level things up. But that was another annoyance, Oxford were justly reduced to ten men. Well, the lino in front of the east terrace could and should have spotted Taylor knocking the ball past a defender, then hooking his leg around the defender's when he could have avoided contact. The ''simulation'' was all but confirmed by Taylor celebrating when he realised that he had got the lad sent off. Some people seem to enjoy the random nature of incompetent officials and players cheating, I would rather see a game of football where the best players win.This post reminds me of a chap that I worked with many years ago. The gist of his thoughts were that supporters had paid good money to watch a contest between two evenly-matched teams, but then howled for a member of the opposition to be sent off. On reflection it does seem a little illogical. Tribalism eh? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 16:45:59 GMT
I think he's from Dismaland, and although he's never reffed us before he has done a Bristol City game. |
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 9, 2015 18:01:02 GMT
I think now the dust has settled, whomever watched the match wherever with whatever allegiance, they can clearly see at least one mistake was made. Maybe more.
And not once did we see a retaliation (apart from Easter mid judge of defender in his way) or t i t for tat.
We conducted ourselves professionally on the pitch. We didn't respond, we conducted ourselves with attacking mentality, tried to play football and adopted a mature outlook.
And, off it, too.....if anyone remembers, the exact date a calender year ago left us with defeat and a punched opponent due to atrocious ref decision?
Look how far we've come.. ?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Sept 10, 2015 8:28:23 GMT
Oh yes, Oxford certainly made it easier for the ref to level things up. But that was another annoyance, Oxford were justly reduced to ten men. Well, the lino in front of the east terrace could and should have spotted Taylor knocking the ball past a defender, then hooking his leg around the defender's when he could have avoided contact. The ''simulation'' was all but confirmed by Taylor celebrating when he realised that he had got the lad sent off. Some people seem to enjoy the random nature of incompetent officials and players cheating, I would rather see a game of football where the best players win. Looked like a trip to me. You got some evidence that the ref got it wrong?
'hooking his leg around the defender's when he could have avoided contact' - The former part of your accusation implies an active action, the latter passive. Which is it? If its merely 'could have avoided contact' If a defenders attempts a tackle and misses, but forces the defender to take evasive action that prevents him getting the ball - is it not still a foul? Is it up to the attacker to take action to prevent contact?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 8:58:01 GMT
Well, the lino in front of the east terrace could and should have spotted Taylor knocking the ball past a defender, then hooking his leg around the defender's when he could have avoided contact. The ''simulation'' was all but confirmed by Taylor celebrating when he realised that he had got the lad sent off. Some people seem to enjoy the random nature of incompetent officials and players cheating, I would rather see a game of football where the best players win. Looked like a trip to me. You got some evidence that the ref got it wrong?
'hooking his leg around the defender's when he could have avoided contact' - The former part of your accusation implies an active action, the latter passive. Which is it? If its merely 'could have avoided contact' If a defenders attempts a tackle and misses, but forces the defender to take evasive action that prevents him getting the ball - is it not still a foul? Is it up to the attacker to take action to prevent contact?
No, I don't suggest anything passive about 'drawing a foul', it's a blight on the game. Delighted to see a player banned yesterday for 'simulating injury' to get an opponant sent off. All players should stay on their feet whenever possible. Anything else is dishonest. Other teams can have the cheats and divers, I don't want to see them representing my club. Is the game better with players like Suarez throwing themselves around screaming, or Sanchez trying to stay on his feet and keep the game going? |
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Sept 10, 2015 9:29:13 GMT
Looked like a trip to me. You got some evidence that the ref got it wrong?
'hooking his leg around the defender's when he could have avoided contact' - The former part of your accusation implies an active action, the latter passive. Which is it? If its merely 'could have avoided contact' If a defenders attempts a tackle and misses, but forces the defender to take evasive action that prevents him getting the ball - is it not still a foul? Is it up to the attacker to take action to prevent contact?
No, I don't suggest anything passive about 'drawing a foul', it's a blight on the game. Delighted to see a player banned yesterday for 'simulating injury' to get an opponant sent off. All players should stay on their feet whenever possible. Anything else is dishonest. Other teams can have the cheats and divers, I don't want to see them representing my club. Is the game better with players like Suarez throwing themselves around screaming, or Sanchez trying to stay on his feet and keep the game going?
You accused Taylor of 2 things - that he 'hooked his leg around', and that he didn't 'avoid contact'. The first is a dive, for me the second isn't. I don't see why an attacker should go out of his way to avoid contact, and if he does and in the act of avoiding contact he loses the ball, then its a foul. Its up to the defender to get his tackle right, surely?
Which are you accusing Taylor of?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Sept 10, 2015 9:41:30 GMT
Looked like a trip to me. You got some evidence that the ref got it wrong?
'hooking his leg around the defender's when he could have avoided contact' - The former part of your accusation implies an active action, the latter passive. Which is it? If its merely 'could have avoided contact' If a defenders attempts a tackle and misses, but forces the defender to take evasive action that prevents him getting the ball - is it not still a foul? Is it up to the attacker to take action to prevent contact?
No, I don't suggest anything passive about 'drawing a foul', it's a blight on the game. Delighted to see a player banned yesterday for 'simulating injury' to get an opponant sent off. All players should stay on their feet whenever possible. Anything else is dishonest. Other teams can have the cheats and divers, I don't want to see them representing my club. Is the game better with players like Suarez throwing themselves around screaming, or Sanchez trying to stay on his feet and keep the game going?
In your reply, please bear in mind Law 12:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
Read more at www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#fxkLaZwMG6PuKqd8.99
Particularly - 'attempts to trip/kick'
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 10:03:30 GMT
No, I don't suggest anything passive about 'drawing a foul', it's a blight on the game. Delighted to see a player banned yesterday for 'simulating injury' to get an opponant sent off. All players should stay on their feet whenever possible. Anything else is dishonest. Other teams can have the cheats and divers, I don't want to see them representing my club. Is the game better with players like Suarez throwing themselves around screaming, or Sanchez trying to stay on his feet and keep the game going?
In your reply, please bear in mind Law 12:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
Read more at www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#fxkLaZwMG6PuKqd8.99
Particularly - 'attempts to trip/kick'
On the day, and having looked at it again, it appears that the defender makes an honest attempt to play the ball, Taylor knocks the ball past him and then runs into the outstretched leg when it appears that he could have avoided that contact. Possesion was lost at that point as a defender coming across from Taylor's left was in a position to clear the ball. If you still aren't sure, look at the high fives and hugs between Taylor and Easter when they see the red card come out. Obviously you are in the camp that would rather players fall over at every opportunity, that's up to you, with the likes of Suarez, Ashley Young and Rooney throwing themselves around you have the game that you want. And ex-players commentating are always saying that a player is 'entitled to go down', so I guess that wanting the game to be played honestly leaves me in the minority. |
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Rex
Predictions League
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Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Sept 10, 2015 10:28:17 GMT
In your reply, please bear in mind Law 12:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
Read more at www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#fxkLaZwMG6PuKqd8.99
Particularly - 'attempts to trip/kick'
On the day, and having looked at it again, it appears that the defender makes an honest attempt to play the ball, Taylor knocks the ball past him and then runs into the outstretched leg when it appears that he could have avoided that contact. Possesion was lost at that point as a defender coming across from Taylor's left was in a position to clear the ball. If you still aren't sure, look at the high fives and hugs between Taylor and Easter when they see the red card come out. Obviously you are in the camp that would rather players fall over at every opportunity, that's up to you, with the likes of Suarez, Ashley Young and Rooney throwing themselves around you have the game that you want. And ex-players commentating are always saying that a player is 'entitled to go down', so I guess that wanting the game to be played honestly leaves me in the minority.Unfortunately you are in the minority, but I'm in there with you. |
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Sept 10, 2015 10:32:46 GMT
In your reply, please bear in mind Law 12:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
Read more at www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#fxkLaZwMG6PuKqd8.99
Particularly - 'attempts to trip/kick'
On the day, and having looked at it again, it appears that the defender makes an honest attempt to play the ball, Taylor knocks the ball past him and then runs into the outstretched leg when it appears that he could have avoided that contact. Possesion was lost at that point as a defender coming across from Taylor's left was in a position to clear the ball. If you still aren't sure, look at the high fives and hugs between Taylor and Easter when they see the red card come out. Obviously you are in the camp that would rather players fall over at every opportunity, that's up to you, with the likes of Suarez, Ashley Young and Rooney throwing themselves around you have the game that you want. And ex-players commentating are always saying that a player is 'entitled to go down', so I guess that wanting the game to be played honestly leaves me in the minority.
I'm in that camp that believes that the laws of the game should be followed. How do you know if the defender's attempt to play the ball is honest? How can the referee know that as fact? He may have been trying to make it look honest, while all along knowing that he wasn't going to get the ball and that there is a good chance of tripping Taylor.
The clear implication of law 12 is that if the defender has not played the ball, then the referee can only assume that he is attempting to trip the opponent. Whether the opponent hits the deck afterwards is neither here nor there, the foul has already been committed through the defender's attempt to trip the opponent. There doesn't have to be contact for a foul to be committed. What is the attacker supposed to do here? If he avoids contact, and in doing so loses the ball, then he's lost possession for his team; if he doesn't then he's dived.
I'm speaking as a centre half myself. I know that if I fail to get any of the ball in a tackle, its probably a foul, and if it stops a promising attack, its probably a yellow.
Perhaps Taylor and Easter are happy that they put together a move so good, that oxford could only stop it by committing a bookable offence causing the opponent to be sent off? Why wouldn't they be happy that the opposition are down to 10 men, theoretically increasing their chances of winning the game?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 10, 2015 13:25:39 GMT
I think he's from Dismaland, and although he's never reffed us before he has done a Bristol City game. Is that a euphemism? These crazy kids and their street slang. I hope I have never done a "Bristol City game" unwittingly lol |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 10, 2015 13:41:17 GMT
In your reply, please bear in mind Law 12:
Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
trips or attempts to trip an opponent
jumps at an opponent
charges an opponent
strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
pushes an opponent
tackles an opponent
Read more at www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#fxkLaZwMG6PuKqd8.99
Particularly - 'attempts to trip/kick'
On the day, and having looked at it again, it appears that the defender makes an honest attempt to play the ball, Taylor knocks the ball past him and then runs into the outstretched leg when it appears that he could have avoided that contact. Possesion was lost at that point as a defender coming across from Taylor's left was in a position to clear the ball. If you still aren't sure, look at the high fives and hugs between Taylor and Easter when they see the red card come out. Obviously you are in the camp that would rather players fall over at every opportunity, that's up to you, with the likes of Suarez, Ashley Young and Rooney throwing themselves around you have the game that you want. And ex-players commentating are always saying that a player is 'entitled to go down', so I guess that wanting the game to be played honestly leaves me in the minority. I am with you BG. Oddly enough the one player that I admired for staying up and getting on with the game was a certain Diego Maradonna but we all know how that ended up. I can't stand it when players start congratulating each other when they have got a player sent off. I never really paid much attention to it until Klinsman came to England. There was much less of it in the conference as I saw it but I think it's now part & parcel of how players are brought through. Some teams achieve ninja level with their professional acts. It's a blight upon the game |
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Igitur
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Post by Igitur on Sept 10, 2015 14:00:24 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 14:59:30 GMT
On the day, and having looked at it again, it appears that the defender makes an honest attempt to play the ball, Taylor knocks the ball past him and then runs into the outstretched leg when it appears that he could have avoided that contact. Possesion was lost at that point as a defender coming across from Taylor's left was in a position to clear the ball. If you still aren't sure, look at the high fives and hugs between Taylor and Easter when they see the red card come out. Obviously you are in the camp that would rather players fall over at every opportunity, that's up to you, with the likes of Suarez, Ashley Young and Rooney throwing themselves around you have the game that you want. And ex-players commentating are always saying that a player is 'entitled to go down', so I guess that wanting the game to be played honestly leaves me in the minority.
I'm in that camp that believes that the laws of the game should be followed. How do you know if the defender's attempt to play the ball is honest? How can the referee know that as fact? He may have been trying to make it look honest, while all along knowing that he wasn't going to get the ball and that there is a good chance of tripping Taylor.
The clear implication of law 12 is that if the defender has not played the ball, then the referee can only assume that he is attempting to trip the opponent. Whether the opponent hits the deck afterwards is neither here nor there, the foul has already been committed through the defender's attempt to trip the opponent. There doesn't have to be contact for a foul to be committed. What is the attacker supposed to do here? If he avoids contact, and in doing so loses the ball, then he's lost possession for his team; if he doesn't then he's dived.
I'm speaking as a centre half myself. I know that if I fail to get any of the ball in a tackle, its probably a foul, and if it stops a promising attack, its probably a yellow.
Perhaps Taylor and Easter are happy that they put together a move so good, that oxford could only stop it by committing a bookable offence causing the opponent to be sent off? Why wouldn't they be happy that the opposition are down to 10 men, theoretically increasing their chances of winning the game?
And this is the exact attitude that gives cheats like Ashley Young and Di Maria all the encouragement they need to throw themselves around and roll on the floor pretending to be injured. The choice is simple, someone like Alexis Sanchez who wants to win fairly, or a cheat like Suarez. You have the game that you want and deserve. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 15:16:49 GMT
This is the incident I mentioned earlier. The player is rightly banned, but to complete the punishment, the actual result should be wiped from the record book unless it was more than a 3-0 defeat, and a 3-0 win should be awarded to the team who were victims of the cheating. Head injuries is another thing. With the information now known about concussion injuries, if a player needs treatment for a head injury he should be withdrawn from the game and made to pass neurological examinations before competing again, after all, you can't be too cautious with head injuries. Suddenly, all of the cheats falling over every time a hand brushes over their head would just get on with the game. Any competant trainer knows when he's treating someone who has either been knocked out or who has concussion. |
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Rex likes this
Post by CountyGroundHotel on Sept 10, 2015 15:24:03 GMT
Amazing with saturation TV coverage and a month into the season it's a Welling player who is the first caught. FA going for soft targets that won't kick up a fuss? |
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Sept 10, 2015 18:39:02 GMT
I'm in that camp that believes that the laws of the game should be followed. How do you know if the defender's attempt to play the ball is honest? How can the referee know that as fact? He may have been trying to make it look honest, while all along knowing that he wasn't going to get the ball and that there is a good chance of tripping Taylor.
The clear implication of law 12 is that if the defender has not played the ball, then the referee can only assume that he is attempting to trip the opponent. Whether the opponent hits the deck afterwards is neither here nor there, the foul has already been committed through the defender's attempt to trip the opponent. There doesn't have to be contact for a foul to be committed. What is the attacker supposed to do here? If he avoids contact, and in doing so loses the ball, then he's lost possession for his team; if he doesn't then he's dived.
I'm speaking as a centre half myself. I know that if I fail to get any of the ball in a tackle, its probably a foul, and if it stops a promising attack, its probably a yellow.
Perhaps Taylor and Easter are happy that they put together a move so good, that oxford could only stop it by committing a bookable offence causing the opponent to be sent off? Why wouldn't they be happy that the opposition are down to 10 men, theoretically increasing their chances of winning the game?
And this is the exact attitude that gives cheats like Ashley Young and Di Maria all the encouragement they need to throw themselves around and roll on the floor pretending to be injured. The choice is simple, someone like Alexis Sanchez who wants to win fairly, or a cheat like Suarez. You have the game that you want and deserve. I don't think you are reading what I have actually written. I didn't mention what happens after the foul is committed. The laws state that there does not have to be contact for a foul to be committed. What the attacker does is immaterial. |
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Sept 10, 2015 18:53:04 GMT
I'm in that camp that believes that the laws of the game should be followed. How do you know if the defender's attempt to play the ball is honest? How can the referee know that as fact? He may have been trying to make it look honest, while all along knowing that he wasn't going to get the ball and that there is a good chance of tripping Taylor.
The clear implication of law 12 is that if the defender has not played the ball, then the referee can only assume that he is attempting to trip the opponent. Whether the opponent hits the deck afterwards is neither here nor there, the foul has already been committed through the defender's attempt to trip the opponent. There doesn't have to be contact for a foul to be committed. What is the attacker supposed to do here? If he avoids contact, and in doing so loses the ball, then he's lost possession for his team; if he doesn't then he's dived.
I'm speaking as a centre half myself. I know that if I fail to get any of the ball in a tackle, its probably a foul, and if it stops a promising attack, its probably a yellow.
Perhaps Taylor and Easter are happy that they put together a move so good, that oxford could only stop it by committing a bookable offence causing the opponent to be sent off? Why wouldn't they be happy that the opposition are down to 10 men, theoretically increasing their chances of winning the game?
And this is the exact attitude that gives cheats like Ashley Young and Di Maria all the encouragement they need to throw themselves around and roll on the floor pretending to be injured. The choice is simple, someone like Alexis Sanchez who wants to win fairly, or a cheat like Suarez. You have the game that you want and deserve. Anyway, Taylor didn't do that on Sunday. You seem to be condeming him for not avoiding contact with the defender. I dont see any offence in the laws concerning 'failure to avoid a tackling opponent while in possession of the ball', or anything like that |
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Post by droitwichgas on Sept 10, 2015 19:50:33 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 20:02:34 GMT
And this is the exact attitude that gives cheats like Ashley Young and Di Maria all the encouragement they need to throw themselves around and roll on the floor pretending to be injured. The choice is simple, someone like Alexis Sanchez who wants to win fairly, or a cheat like Suarez. You have the game that you want and deserve. Anyway, Taylor didn't do that on Sunday. You seem to be condeming him for not avoiding contact with the defender. I dont see any offence in the laws concerning 'failure to avoid a tackling opponent while in possession of the ball', or anything like that I condemn any player who could stay on his feet and continue with the game but instead chooses to go to ground. There's no need for the thugary of teams like Stoke, but it's still supposed to be a man's game. All I can come back to is, my preference is for a player like Sanchez, who, by staying on his feet, exposes other players who fall over when they don't actually need to. Or players like Eduardo, who deliberately alter the line that they are running so that they make contact with the goalkeeper to try to gain a penalty. You can have the last word  |
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